The only similarity between Nature Swap and Unnatural is utilizing the Nature mechanic, they otherwise play out very differently. One metagame heavily favors MinMax Pokemon like Hoopa Unbound while the other favors Even spread Pokemon. I also don’t see that many problem Pokemon aside from a few mythicals. It’s pretty uncommon to find Pokemon whose lowest non-HP stat is above Base 90.
Fair enough (though technically it’s a x1.818 boost rather than a x2 boost). It’s why I asked if the modifier should be high or lower, or something else that’d buff the lowest stat of a Pokemon?
Would like to mention a few more.for sure will be banned even without the restriction. Having a speed stat 50 points above Timid
is insane with you additionally having 100/100/100 bulk and Tail Glow.
similarly is on the tipping point too. It having Nasty Plot sets, Stored Power sets, and Hazard stacking sets where that 598 Spe would help tremendously.
Another Pokemon I have my eyes on is
and
. Having its lowest stat be Speed and having access to Belly Drum is disastrous and lead to Screens + Belly Drum teams running rampant.
oh, you think that's horrifying?Another Pokemon I have my eyes on is
Even worse:
Both definitely look like threats for sure, and honestly probably should have mentioned Iron Hands with whole Belly Drum stuff too.
252+ Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Collision Course (133.3251953125 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 258-306 (77.2 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Wouldn't it be 436 instead ? I ask because I find it strange to get the double of the neutral nature, but I'm probably wrong.Unnatural
Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead.
Example:
Kingambit’s highest non-HP stat is Atk and it’s lowest non-HP stat is Spe.
With 252 Spe EVs and Neutral Nature, Kingambit would have 199 Speed.
With 252 Spe EVs and Jolly, Kingambit would have 218 Speed.
However, with With 252 Spe EVs and Timid, Kingambit would have 398 Speed instead.
The idea is that instead of the boost being +10% it instead is +100%
The mechanic of the metagame sounds cool, but only a 10% increase for every weakness? That seems a bit skimpy to me. I think it should be +25% if you're weak to 1 type, and +50% if you're weak to both types, x2 and x4 weaknesses having the same boost. It'd make the mechanic more impactful.COUNTERARM
Don't be weak to the opposition! Respond by being even stronger!
Metagame premise:
If your opponent has a type that you would otherwise be offensively weak against, your moves instead get an offensive boost against them (and it stacks)!
For each weakness they possess against you, your moves will be boosted by 1.1x. This is independent to whether move you use is super effective or not very effective, this is an added boost.
Example:
Landorus-Therian is Ground/Flying.
Say you're fighting a Cloyster. Both Ice and Water are super effective against Ground, and Ice also for Flying. That means there's 3 weaknesses there, so your moves against a Cloyster will be 1.3x.
Another example:
Avalugg-Hisui is Ice/Rock
View attachment 647983
If your opponent is a Cobalion, both Steel and Fighting both are strong against both Ice and Rock, so that means your moves will be 1.4x as effective against them. Even though Ice is resisted to Steel, it's whether or not their type is strong against your type, before the resistances even begin.
Anyone up for Trick Room?
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential threats:
The issue with threats in this metagame is that it's reliant on how many weaknesses they have based on how well they can account for their weakness, since being weak to a type they have while not having to worry about it means they can utilize the damage boost to the fullest. So while faster mons with more weaknesses like glass cannons can have a field day, I'd imagine Pokemon like Corviknight who are immune to one of their weaknesses would appreciate the boost. Though, Corviknight isn't exactly an offensive threat anyway, is it?
With that said, Flying types in general who are weak to Ground, a common OU type, would appreciate the free 1.1x boost they get just by being typically Ground-vulnerable with their other type (if anything I said earlier made sense, that is.)
Yet, in other words, being weak to a type means free power to abuse, so I'll list some mons that I think may be problematic due to their notable weaknesses.
Meowscarada/Weavile (simply by having a lot of weaknesses, they'd probably get boosts frequently)
Cinderace/Gouging Fire (Ground)
Deoxys-Speed/Dragapult (Dark)
Iron Moth (Ground + Can quickly utilize the damage boost by activating Quark Drive under speed)
Glimmora (Ground weakness means it can stay in on common setup leads like Clodsire, Gliscor, Garchomp, Deoxys-Speed, or Samurott-Hisui, all of which has types strong against it, and deal heavy damage after a Sash.)
Potential bans:
Kingambit (Too many boosts with Supreme Overlord)
Gholdengo (Ground + Dark weakness means it getting offensive boosts all the time.) -Debatable-
Questions for the community:
What are your thoughts on Gholdengo in a meta like this? I gave my thoughts about how types with easier ways to fend off their weaknesses will do better in a meta like this, but would Gholdengo prove to be too strong with more frequent boosts?
I'd imagine that STAB moves would be less frequent as no one would want a boosted attack against them if they can help it. Thoughts? Would STAB moves be less frequent?
Do you have any other ideas for the name of the meta?
It's still possible, however I didn't want to give glass cannons too much of a boost as its added on top of type calcs. Example: If you're using a Electric/Rock type and your opponent's a Ground/Water type, you get a 1.3x bonus. If you use a Grass Move + Life Orb, that's a 4x effective move with a 1.3x boost from the meta and a 1.3x boost from Life Orb, meaning it comes to a 6.36x multiplier. That's pretty nuts as it is now, IMO.
Yeah that’s true. It’s a hard balance to have since +10% boost is barely anything and +40% or +50% is pretty high.
It’s not based on their STAB moves, just their type combination. Regardless of the moves they have, if they have a type that would be super effective against one of yours, it factors into a boost that boosts your own moves, regardless of if those moves are super effective or not.
are the modifiers supposed to be additive? damage modifiers are usually always applied multiplicatively as far as I am aware
COUNTERARM
Don't be weak to the opposition! Respond by being even stronger!
Metagame premise:
If your opponent has a type that you would otherwise be offensively weak against, your moves instead get an offensive boost against them (and it stacks)!
For each weakness they possess against you, your moves will be boosted by 1.1x. This is independent to whether move you use is super effective or not very effective, this is an added boost.
Example:
Landorus-Therian is Ground/Flying.
Say you're fighting a Cloyster. Both Ice and Water are super effective against Ground, and Ice also for Flying. That means there's 3 weaknesses there, so your moves against a Cloyster will be 1.3x.
Another example:
Avalugg-Hisui is Ice/Rock
View attachment 647983
If your opponent is a Cobalion, both Steel and Fighting both are strong against both Ice and Rock, so that means your moves will be 1.4x as effective against them. Even though Ice is resisted to Steel, it's whether or not their type is strong against your type, before the resistances even begin.
Anyone up for Trick Room?
OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)
Potential threats:
The issue with threats in this metagame is that it's reliant on how many weaknesses they have based on how well they can account for their weakness, since being weak to a type they have while not having to worry about it means they can utilize the damage boost to the fullest. So while faster mons with more weaknesses like glass cannons can have a field day, I'd imagine Pokemon like Corviknight who are immune to one of their weaknesses would appreciate the boost. Though, Corviknight isn't exactly an offensive threat anyway, is it?
With that said, Flying types in general who are weak to Ground, a common OU type, would appreciate the free 1.1x boost they get just by being typically Ground-vulnerable with their other type (if anything I said earlier made sense, that is.)
Yet, in other words, being weak to a type means free power to abuse, so I'll list some mons that I think may be problematic due to their notable weaknesses.
Meowscarada/Weavile (simply by having a lot of weaknesses, they'd probably get boosts frequently)
Cinderace/Gouging Fire (Ground)
Deoxys-Speed/Dragapult (Dark)
Iron Moth (Ground + Can quickly utilize the damage boost by activating Quark Drive under speed)
Glimmora (Ground weakness means it can stay in on common setup leads like Clodsire, Gliscor, Garchomp, Deoxys-Speed, or Samurott-Hisui, all of which has types strong against it, and deal heavy damage after a Sash.)
Potential bans:
Kingambit (Too many boosts with Supreme Overlord)
Gholdengo (Ground + Dark weakness means it getting offensive boosts all the time.) -Debatable-
Questions for the community:
What are your thoughts on Gholdengo in a meta like this? I gave my thoughts about how types with easier ways to fend off their weaknesses will do better in a meta like this, but would Gholdengo prove to be too strong with more frequent boosts?
I'd imagine that STAB moves would be less frequent as no one would want a boosted attack against them if they can help it. Thoughts? Would STAB moves be less frequent?
Do you have any other ideas for the name of the meta?
I feel like formats that are just damage modifiers are just too small of a change to be worth exploring, they just make for basic HO teams and can't really reach a balancing point because there is always a next best thing that can just deal insane amounts of damage like what just got banned.
How does Payback work?
Why is Conversion on the banlist? Why are Iron Valiant, Iron Boulder, Glastrier, Gouging Fire, Landorus-Therian, and Walking Wake banned?
1) Conversion has been deleted from the Bans. I included it by mistake.
I really do not think Landorus-Therian is that broken. You are overstating the value of Smack Down since Landorus-Therian cannot boost its speed at all, which makes Great Tusk arguably better since it has much better bulk and can boost its speed with Rapid Spin or Booster Energy. Iron Valiant also only has Charge Beam, which is not STAB.
