Do you have a lv100 requirement? I see under-level creep happening for this, which mons I can't tell. When TR is permanently active, you can count on there being speed-creep wars.
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
yes, its on the draft of the OP for when its fully greenlit
I had initially pitched the idea of Trick Room reverting the speed tiers back to normal for a limited duration, since it seems like a logical and potentially fun mechanic. However, that would require altering the way Trick Room is programmed, which is outside the intended scope of Other Metas. As it stands, the move likely simply won’t function in this OM.
There are an abundance of low-speed potential Curse, Iron Defense and Belly Drum sweepers, but I think the main limiting factor to these guys will be
with its low base 35 speed, Haze, resistance to BPress, and the Unaware mons, namely 
The best of the physical sweepers would have methods to get around these walls, namely Pex and Dondozo, and which are going to be very strong.
Look out for:
Salt Cure, nuff said. Likely an S-tier mon, honestly. Bring your cloaks, lads.
can pack mixed sets to nail the waters on their weaker sides.
Have Water Absorb, can EQ Pex and Toxic the fatfish and do not fear Raging Bolt revenging. I give Clod bonus points over Quag for being Toxic immune to more easily beat Pex.
There are an abundance of low-speed potential Curse, Iron Defense and Belly Drum sweepers, but I think the main limiting factor to these guys will be
with its low base 35 speed, Haze, resistance to BPress, and the Unaware mons, namely The best of the physical sweepers would have methods to get around these walls, namely Pex and Dondozo, and which are going to be very strong.
Look out for:
Salt Cure, nuff said. Likely an S-tier mon, honestly. Bring your cloaks, lads. can pack mixed sets to nail the waters on their weaker sides. Have Water Absorb, can EQ Pex and Toxic the fatfish and do not fear Raging Bolt revenging. I give Clod bonus points over Quag for being Toxic immune to more easily beat Pex.
Quick sample team, not sure if it's any good but I think HO will be a popular playstyle in this OM. I basically think every offensive mon should carry Bands/Iron Ball, only exception is if they are using Curse or Hammer Arm to lower speed, and even then Iron Ball is still worth consideration.
(click for pokepaste)
Think has potential to be a solid hazards lead since it is the slowest mon in the game, has access to all hazards, and sturdy, similar to a deo-s lead in regular mons.
Think has a role as a pivot into Hatterene which will be S-Tier imo due to that slight speed edge it has on the rest of the viable offensive mons
My initial S-Tier candidates are:
(click for pokepaste)Think
has potential to be a solid hazards lead since it is the slowest mon in the game, has access to all hazards, and sturdy, similar to a deo-s lead in regular mons.Think
has a role as a pivot into Hatterene which will be S-Tier imo due to that slight speed edge it has on the rest of the viable offensive monsMy initial S-Tier candidates are:
This is coming late and not sure how helpful it is but "My Turn" reminded me of an old Super Staff Bros 4 move/ability which might be known to some people. I think centering the premise around moves as opposed to speed tiers/ turns gives you something much simpler and universal. Something along the lines of:
All moves when successfully executed as their secondary effect give both the user and the opponent the "Must Recharge" status simultaneously.
I think this naturally ensures that the pokemon that goes in second recharges the very same turn because they already click a move that turn, while the faster mon recharges the next turn. It also treats higher priority bracket on the same footing as being faster. (maybe taking a bit of the predictability element from your premise but I think it's just simpler)
Not sure what else this might wash away, I guess you can apply it to switches and make KOs function like they did in gen 1.
Here is a replay showcasing that staff bros move: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen8superstaffbros4-2225934
All moves when successfully executed as their secondary effect give both the user and the opponent the "Must Recharge" status simultaneously.
I think this naturally ensures that the pokemon that goes in second recharges the very same turn because they already click a move that turn, while the faster mon recharges the next turn. It also treats higher priority bracket on the same footing as being faster. (maybe taking a bit of the predictability element from your premise but I think it's just simpler)
Not sure what else this might wash away, I guess you can apply it to switches and make KOs function like they did in gen 1.
Here is a replay showcasing that staff bros move: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen8superstaffbros4-2225934
link to slowmons (fair warning, this new version will be far different, things have very much changed since gen 6)
I was perusing the old Slowmons thread, and many who had posted indicated Stall was quite strong in that OM.
Well, I tried theory crafting a Stall team for the new Twisted Dimension OM, and I believe running for full stall, at least with the initial banlist, will be very challenging.
We face Kingambit, Iron Hands, the Ursalunas, Hat and Renu (which can run any of Psychic Noise or Stored Power or go mixed with Psyshock) and THEN hard hitting mons like Glastier or Conkledurr who have access to Taunt. Annihilape and Solgaleo feel like a distant afterthought after all these options…
And here I was worried about Toxapex and Garganacl for a minute.
Well, I tried theory crafting a Stall team for the new Twisted Dimension OM, and I believe running for full stall, at least with the initial banlist, will be very challenging.
We face Kingambit, Iron Hands, the Ursalunas, Hat and Renu (which can run any of Psychic Noise or Stored Power or go mixed with Psyshock) and THEN hard hitting mons like Glastier or Conkledurr who have access to Taunt. Annihilape and Solgaleo feel like a distant afterthought after all these options…
And here I was worried about Toxapex and Garganacl for a minute.
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LOGICAL GAMEPLAY
inspirational GIF: Ash's Hawlucha from Pokemon XY Anime destroying Trick Room with X-Scissor
inspirational GIF: Ash's Hawlucha from Pokemon XY Anime destroying Trick Room with X-Scissor
Description: This metagame aims to answer to the following question. What if moves themselves could be super-effective against one another in battle? What if based on type effectiveness, you could nullify or reset opposing pokemon's moves in a timely fashion?
Metagame Premise: In this metagame, if a damaging move's type is super-effective against any of the opponent's moves, the opponent will be prevented from using them for a single turn (similar to how Gigaton Hammer or Bloodmoon are prevented from being used for a turn)
FAQ
Q: Can you give an example?
A: Suppose opponent uses Leech Seed and you follow with Flamethrower. This will prevent them from using Leech Seed for the next turn, in addition to any Ice and Bug and Grass type moves.
Q: What if Flamethrower goes first and Leech Seed goes second in the same turn?
A: Leech Seed will simply fail, similar to trying to use a sound move while being Throat Chopped or a status move while being Taunted.
Q: How does Freeze Dry, Flying Press work?
A: Counted as ice and fighting respectively.
Q: Does the move need to successfully hit?
A: Yes, otherwise the effect won't happen.
Q: What about ate abilities or tera?
A: Takes into account the type of the damage (or how the move is color-coded)
Increased Viability:
Ice, fighting, rock and associated priority moves:
They can easily shut down the opponent.
Pivot (u-turn/volt-switch) :
Decreased Viability:
& friends: being locked into a move and forced Struggle is just not ideal
Pokemon whose move-pools are all weak to the same type.
Stall:
normal type recovery can be seen from a mile away and be shut down - (maybe not for the latter 2)
Banlist: OU Banlist + TBD
Questions for the community: Do you think this is interesting? Open for suggestions about better implementation of the idea (original idea was to make the super-effective move nullify and completely undo/reset the last move used by the opponent)
Metagame Premise: In this metagame, if a damaging move's type is super-effective against any of the opponent's moves, the opponent will be prevented from using them for a single turn (similar to how Gigaton Hammer or Bloodmoon are prevented from being used for a turn)
FAQ
Q: Can you give an example?
A: Suppose opponent uses Leech Seed and you follow with Flamethrower. This will prevent them from using Leech Seed for the next turn, in addition to any Ice and Bug and Grass type moves.
Q: What if Flamethrower goes first and Leech Seed goes second in the same turn?
A: Leech Seed will simply fail, similar to trying to use a sound move while being Throat Chopped or a status move while being Taunted.
Q: How does Freeze Dry, Flying Press work?
A: Counted as ice and fighting respectively.
Q: Does the move need to successfully hit?
A: Yes, otherwise the effect won't happen.
Q: What about ate abilities or tera?
A: Takes into account the type of the damage (or how the move is color-coded)
Increased Viability:
Ice, fighting, rock and associated priority moves:
Pivot (u-turn/volt-switch) :
Decreased Viability:
Pokemon whose move-pools are all weak to the same type.
Stall:
Banlist: OU Banlist + TBD
Questions for the community: Do you think this is interesting? Open for suggestions about better implementation of the idea (original idea was to make the super-effective move nullify and completely undo/reset the last move used by the opponent)
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Seems pretty cool of an idea. My only suggestion is to maybe not have moves fail on the same turn. That’d seem a bit frustrating to play with defensive Pokemon when they use recover and can’t because they got hit by a fighting move the same turn.LOGICAL GAMEPLAY
inspirational GIF: Ash's Hawlucha from Pokemon XY Anime destroying Trick Room with X-Scissor
Description: This metagame aims to answer to the following question. What if moves themselves could be super-effective against one another in battle? What if based on type effectiveness, you could nullify or reset opposing pokemon's moves in a timely fashion?
Metagame Premise: In this metagame, if a damaging move's type is super-effective against any of the opponent's moves, the opponent will be prevented from using them for a single turn (similar to how Gigaton Hammer or Bloodmoon are prevented from being used for a turn)
FAQ
Q: Can you give an example?
A: Suppose opponent uses Leech Seed and you follow with Flamethrower. This will prevent them from using Leech Seed for the next turn, in addition to any Ice and Bug and Grass type moves.
Q: What if Flamethrower goes first and Leech Seed goes second in the same turn?
A: Leech Seed will simply fail, similar to trying to use a sound move while being Throat Chopped or a status move while being Taunted.
Q: How does Freeze Dry, Flying Press work?
A: Counted as ice and fighting respectively.
Q: Does the move need to successfully hit?
A: Yes, otherwise the effect won't happen.
Q: What about ate abilities or tera?
A: Takes into account the type of the damage (or how the move is color-coded)
Increased Viability:
Ice, fighting, rock and associated priority moves:They can easily shut down the opponent.
Pivot (u-turn/volt-switch) :
Decreased Viability:
& friends: being locked into a move and forced Struggle is just not ideal
Pokemon whose move-pools are all weak to the same type.
Stall:normal type recovery can be seen from a mile away and be shut down - (maybe not for the latter 2)
Banlist: OU Banlist + TBD
Questions for the community: Do you think this is interesting? Open for suggestions about better implementation of the idea (original idea was to make the super-effective move nullify and completely undo/reset the last move used by the opponent)
It should only be for the following turn, where its a bit less frustrating.
didn't quite know where to go with last one as there are so many options (if you really like the idea, feel free to use it - some form of recovery makes the most sense to me based on type effectiveness at the end of turn)
while that remains on the shelf for now, the idea of sealing/disabling moves gave me something much more concrete and complete for an entirely different meta idea, so I present to you
Banned Abilities: Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Moody, Regenerator (I think this is quite broken in this meta)
Banned Moves: Shed Tail, Baton Pass, Last Respects, Encore
Banned Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang
Watchlisted Moves: Mean Look, Block, Infestation, Sand Tomb, Fire Spin, Wrap, Bind, Magma Storm, Whirlpool, Perish Song
(these require further evidence I think, as the trap setter also needs to seal their own moves to stay in)
Council: None yet
Playability: Nowhere yet
Questions for the community: Do you think seal should be restored just with a switch or do you think this twist is more interesting? Any problems this meta might have?
while that remains on the shelf for now, the idea of sealing/disabling moves gave me something much more concrete and complete for an entirely different meta idea, so I present to you
Description: Ever wondered how a metagame would play if every pokemon could use their moves only once? What if restoring the move back to your pokemon was possible but came at the cost of taking accessibilty from another? Sealed Chamber is a meta where to open up doors, you need to seal others and be smart and economical with execution of your moves.
Metagame Premise: In this singles metagame, once an active pokemon uses a move, the move will be sealed for that pokemon. To unseal a move, another pokemon in your party must make the sacrifice of sealing their move in the respective slot.
Metagame Premise: In this singles metagame, once an active pokemon uses a move, the move will be sealed for that pokemon. To unseal a move, another pokemon in your party must make the sacrifice of sealing their move in the respective slot.
Q: Can you give an example?
A: Suppose you have a Blissey that uses Softboiled, which is a slot 1 move. Once executed, this move will be sealed. Another team-member needs to use their slot 1 move, in order for Blissey to regain access to Softboiled again.
Q: What if a pokemon faints?
A: If a pokemon faints, it won't affect the already existing seals.
Q: What happens to PP of moves?
A: You start with your max PP. The meta is just meant to mimic the 1 PP experience without giving pokemon 1 PP.
Q: What if an active pokemon uses all 4 of their moves?
A: They will be forced into using Struggle next time they attack
Q: How would Disable/Encore work?A: Suppose you have a Blissey that uses Softboiled, which is a slot 1 move. Once executed, this move will be sealed. Another team-member needs to use their slot 1 move, in order for Blissey to regain access to Softboiled again.
Q: What if a pokemon faints?
A: If a pokemon faints, it won't affect the already existing seals.
Q: What happens to PP of moves?
A: You start with your max PP. The meta is just meant to mimic the 1 PP experience without giving pokemon 1 PP.
Q: What if an active pokemon uses all 4 of their moves?
A: They will be forced into using Struggle next time they attack
A: You'd be forced into struggle with Encore, Disable would fail since the move is already sealed.
Q: How would a pokemon like Ditto work?
A: Existing seals would carry through transformation. If Ditto is un-transformed, it is only capable of unsealing 1st slot moves.
Q: How would a pokemon like Ditto work?
A: Existing seals would carry through transformation. If Ditto is un-transformed, it is only capable of unsealing 1st slot moves.
- This is both a game of momentum, stamina, and clever team-building, meaning both the moves that one pokemon has by itself and respective slot moves of another pokemon must complement each other. (i.e pairing pivot moves with other pivot moves or recovery moves, pairing protection with protection would be one way to keep the momentum going)
- This metagame also has a potential to become a struggle frenzy when you're down to 2-3 pokemon as the moves you click and the ones you free up become increasingly more important towards the endgame.
- Scout-switching few times might be viable before you decide to click a move. The more moves you click, the less viable it becomes for you to switch back to the same pokemon.
- Because KOs will drastically change the mobility within your team, First Blood-like strategies might be viable here in addition to hazard and status setting pacifist movesets.
- STAB stacking on the same pokemon would also be an option in addition to a sub + setup build to give you limited sweep capabilities.
Arceus, Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Speed, Dialga, Dialga-Origin, Enamorus-Incarnate, Espathra, Eternatus, Falinks, Flutter Mane, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Groudon, Ho-oh, Iron Bundle, Komala, Kommo-o, Koraidon, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Incarnate, Lilligant-Hisui, Lugia, Lunala, Magearna, Mewtwo, Miraidon, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palafin, Palkia, Palkia-Origin, Rayquaza, Regieleki, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Smeargle, Sneasler, Solgaleo, Spectrier, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned, Zekrom
(+) Pacifist Builds: Sub, Protect, Toxic etc (Salazzle comes to mind)
(+) Strong Pivots: Volt Switch users, Lokix, Slither Wing
(-) Choice Band/Specs - these are a double edged sword
more to add for later...
(+) Strong Pivots: Volt Switch users, Lokix, Slither Wing
(-) Choice Band/Specs - these are a double edged sword
more to add for later...
Banned Abilities: Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Moody, Regenerator (I think this is quite broken in this meta)
Banned Moves: Shed Tail, Baton Pass, Last Respects, Encore
Banned Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang
Watchlisted Moves: Mean Look, Block, Infestation, Sand Tomb, Fire Spin, Wrap, Bind, Magma Storm, Whirlpool, Perish Song
(these require further evidence I think, as the trap setter also needs to seal their own moves to stay in)
Council: None yet
Playability: Nowhere yet
Questions for the community: Do you think seal should be restored just with a switch or do you think this twist is more interesting? Any problems this meta might have?
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Max Berries
This well beloved(?) Metagame from Generation 8 should make a return!
Premise: All berries are cranked up to 100, maximizing their effects!
Example: Liechi Berry gives +6 attack instead of +1, Oran Berry heals 100% of the holder's max HP, and Babri Berry makes the holder take 0 damage from the first Super Effective steel-type attack!
Bans (Garunteed)
- Berries that damage the opponent when they use a certain kind of move, such as Rowap Berry
- Unnerve (Cmon, this just ruins the whole point of the tier...)
Bans (Potential)
- Drought (Protosynthesis mons could go ham with a +6 stat boost and a 1.3 or 1.5x in another, not to mention Harvest.)
- Bug Bite/Pluck (This one was banned later in the month in Gen 8, but i think it was pretty fun to go against, so i wouldnt be opposed to giving it another chance!)
- Power Trip/Stored Power (+6 boost plus other setup moves could be... problematic. such as swords dance salac berry incineroar.)
feel free to add other concerns!
This well beloved(?) Metagame from Generation 8 should make a return!
Premise: All berries are cranked up to 100, maximizing their effects!
Example: Liechi Berry gives +6 attack instead of +1, Oran Berry heals 100% of the holder's max HP, and Babri Berry makes the holder take 0 damage from the first Super Effective steel-type attack!
Bans (Garunteed)
- Berries that damage the opponent when they use a certain kind of move, such as Rowap Berry
- Unnerve (Cmon, this just ruins the whole point of the tier...)
Bans (Potential)
- Drought (Protosynthesis mons could go ham with a +6 stat boost and a 1.3 or 1.5x in another, not to mention Harvest.)
- Bug Bite/Pluck (This one was banned later in the month in Gen 8, but i think it was pretty fun to go against, so i wouldnt be opposed to giving it another chance!)
- Power Trip/Stored Power (+6 boost plus other setup moves could be... problematic. such as swords dance salac berry incineroar.)
feel free to add other concerns!
I have theory crafted this idea for a week now and I think it's a pretty neat idea so I'm willing to share it with everyone. Introducing Dynaminmax! A format where you choose a mon with a Gmax Form (I.E Charizard) but it works sorta similar to Godly Gift in some aspects where it uses team slots mons in the first slot of the team gain the double hp mechanic of the Gmax mon, mons in the Second and third slot gain a bonus type Fire for second slot, Flying for third slot (refer to above example for reference defers for each Gmax mon) mons in the fourth slot gain the Gmax moves mechanic for moves matching the Gmax mons type (one or both of their types must match the Gmax mons types). Mons in the fifth slot gain the ability of the Gmax mon on top of their existing ability. And lastly mons in the 6th slot gain immunities of the Gmax mon. Buffs do not work for the Gmax mon used. You cannot use multiple Gmax mons. Gmax mons can use their Gmax move once per battle.
PRESENTING ..... NOT AUTOMAGIC SORRY
Questions for the community: Fun to play? Do you think it's better to relax the "one-time" constraint?
Here's the inspiration for the meta - gen 7's Automagic - if you like that one better, here's the thread for it.
REAP AND SOW
Metagame Premise: Once a status move is used, it can be picked up later as a one-time additional effect of any damaging move of the same type by either the user of the status move or the opponent.
Stacking up status moves that not only serve you but also help you if the opponent were to pick them up.
Q: Can you give an illustrative example?
A: Suppose opposing Hatterene uses Magic Powder and Skill Swap in two consecutive turns, and those are the only psychic type status moves used in battle. The first pokemon to use a damaging psychic type move, say Zen Headbutt, will have both of those status moves as additional effects of the move.
Q: What about the order of the status moves?
A: This is taken into account. Status moves that are picked up simultaneously will keep the same order of execution.
Q: What happens if the same status move is used twice?
A: It doesn't stack. The first damaging move used later that shares a type will pick up that status move only once.
Q: What happens when you make a switch or faint after using status moves?
A: It won't reset, the battle will keep a record of the status moves that are "unclaimed". Once a damaging move of the same type is used, the moves will be claimed.
Q: Is there a limit on how many status moves can be made to stack?
A: As many as possible, but they'll be claimed at some point anyway.
A: Suppose opposing Hatterene uses Magic Powder and Skill Swap in two consecutive turns, and those are the only psychic type status moves used in battle. The first pokemon to use a damaging psychic type move, say Zen Headbutt, will have both of those status moves as additional effects of the move.
Q: What about the order of the status moves?
A: This is taken into account. Status moves that are picked up simultaneously will keep the same order of execution.
Q: What happens if the same status move is used twice?
A: It doesn't stack. The first damaging move used later that shares a type will pick up that status move only once.
Q: What happens when you make a switch or faint after using status moves?
A: It won't reset, the battle will keep a record of the status moves that are "unclaimed". Once a damaging move of the same type is used, the moves will be claimed.
Q: Is there a limit on how many status moves can be made to stack?
A: As many as possible, but they'll be claimed at some point anyway.
(+)
Parting Shot + Knock Off (Now this is an interesting one)
Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse
Skill Swap + Zen Headbutt (yea ik the mon you're thinking)
Chilly Reception + Ice Beam
SD, Shell Smash, Roar, Whirlwind, Recover, Block + Quick Attack
Memento, Healing Wish, Lunar Dance (now these are weird, you're basically shutting down dark and psychic)
Leech Seed, Strength Sap + Leaf Storm
Charge + Thunderbolt
.... Many Others
(-)
Choice item mons, since you're likely to move twice
Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse
Skill Swap + Zen Headbutt (yea ik the mon you're thinking)
Chilly Reception + Ice Beam
SD, Shell Smash, Roar, Whirlwind, Recover, Block + Quick Attack
Memento, Healing Wish, Lunar Dance (now these are weird, you're basically shutting down dark and psychic)
Leech Seed, Strength Sap + Leaf Storm
Charge + Thunderbolt
.... Many Others
(-)
Choice item mons, since you're likely to move twice
Last Respects, Baton Pass, Shed Tail, Revival Blessing, Fake Out
King's Rock, Razor Fang
OU Banlist + TBD
Questions for the community: Fun to play? Do you think it's better to relax the "one-time" constraint?
Here's the inspiration for the meta - gen 7's Automagic - if you like that one better, here's the thread for it.
Metagame Thread 'Automagic'
PRESENTING . . .
In this fast-paced 21st century we live in, trainers don't have the time to spend a whole turn setting up their Pokemon. Not to worry, as we have the solution for you! Thanks to AUTOMAGIC, now your Pokemon will activate any setup moves they carry if one of their attacks triggers a secondary effect.
RULES
RULES
- Mechanics: Whenever an attack activates a secondary effect...
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hi Dawn's Piplup not sure if you've been told but your posts are unreadable on smogon dark mode because you make the text black
I presume it's because you are using colored text and you are trying to remove the color by converting it back to black, to do that you should use the "erase color" button instead:
I presume it's because you are using colored text and you are trying to remove the color by converting it back to black, to do that you should use the "erase color" button instead:
Move-a-Like (name pending)
Metagame Premise: You can nickname your Pokemon a move they learn, and they can then learn any move that contains a word in that move.Example:
Pikachu is a Pokemon that learns the move Thunder Punch. If you nickname your Pikachu "Thunder Punch" it can learn any move with the word "Thunder" in it and any move with the word "Punch" in it
Potential Threats and Bans:
Triple Arrows pretty obvious ban or restriction. Its limiting factor in normal gameplay, much like DIB, was that it was stuck on a slow Pokemon. This meaning that you'd not see the move flinch too often. With this move having "Triple" in the title, any Pokemon that learns Triple Axel, Triple Dive, or Triple Kick can use this move, and there are plenty of fast physical offensive threats that can abuse Triple Arrows. Not only does it flinch but it also has a chance to drop Def and Crit, so any switch in has to also account for their STAB options, the Def drop, the crit chance, and the flinch chance. However Decidueye-H should be able to learn any “Triple” or “Arrows” moves it wants.
Likewise, moves like Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, and Victory Dance all will have to be restricted too, for pretty obvious reasons. We don’t need randon Rain Dance Pokemon using Quiver Dance or any Pokemon with Rock Smash using Shell Smash. We also don’t need Quiver Dance Numel or Shell Smash Great Tusk.
Glory to physical electric types out there. No longer will Pikachu and its evolution line hog one of the best physical electric moves in the entire game. If you nickname your Pokemon Tackle or Volt Switch, you can finally learn Volt Tackle. In addition, some electric types have access to Double Shock, Bolt Strike, and Fusion Bolt.
Water Pulse is actually pretty good move to have here. You get access to Water Shuriken, Water Spout, Origin Pulse, Dark Pulse, and Dragon Pulse. Some Pokemon that come to mind as potential threats are
having strong offenses and set up moves.Dondozo has the move Order Up, which is actually really great here as it allows Dondozo to use Bulk Up, Shore Up, Attack Order, Defend Order, and Tidy Up. This not only makes Dondozo more of an excellent wall thanks to reliable recovery, but you can also be more supportive with Tidy Up and more offensive since Attack Order is a way better means to hit Grass types than Ice Fang.
Cinderace has a few options. Naming itself Bulk Up to access Tidy Up and becoming both a hazard remover and set up sweeper. Fire Punch in order to get access to Sacred Fire + Jet Punch + Mach Punch + Elemental Punches. Double Kick is also an option for Thunderous Kick + Double Shock. It looks really solid in this Metagame.
Dragon Dance its one of the best moves to have in this Metagame. You get access to 18 different moves (that aren't banned or itself) and gives out great moves. Special Attackers like
get Dragon Energy, Revelation Dance, and Fiery Dance. Physical Attackers get Dragon Ascent, Dragon Darts, and Sword Dance. You also get support options like Dragon Tail and Lunar Dance too.
While thankfully Thunderclap is exclusive to Raging Bolt, Raging Bolt gets Electro Ball where it can use Electro Shot and Electro Drift. It has Dragon Pulse for Dragon Energy and Origin Pulse, has Charge Beam for Ice Beam and Flame Charge, and Dragon Tail for Dragon Energy and Tail Glow (likely banned but worth noting).
No doubt this will remain banned. Dragon Dance? Yup gets Dragon Darts and Sword Dance. Fire Fang? Sacred Fire and Super Fang. Ancient Power? Gives it Power Trip and Power Whip.
Feel free to give your ideas and I can add them.
Questions for the Community:
1. My default limitation of what counts as containing the word should be same spelling exactly and can not be inside a bigger word
Examples:
Swords Dance can not give you Secret Sword or Sacred Sword because it uses the word Swords and not Sword, and this also work vice-versa. You can still learn other dance moves and pokemon with dance moves can learn Swords Dance still.
Moonblast can not give moves like Blood Moon or Fire Blast because Moonblast is 1 word. It is also vice-versa as well.
I was wondering how everyone else feels about that, and if we should let Pokemon with Sacred Sword learn Swords Dance because it technically has "Sword" in the name? Probably a good idea not to have that, but I want to hear your thoughts.
2. Some moves like Freeze-Dry and U-turn have a "-" in their name. Should these moves be considered 1 move or 2 moves?
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How exactly is this metagame that different from Sketchmons? Many useful moves (Taunt, Calm Mind, Boomburst) are inaccessible without just naming your Pokemon that move. In addition, the words that have the most moves mostly just seem to be offensive moves with just different typings, making them kind of generic:
Ball, Crash, Cannon, Dance, Hammer, Power, Punch, Rush, Shot, Torque, Up (exception)
Ball, Crash, Cannon, Dance, Hammer, Power, Punch, Rush, Shot, Torque, Up (exception)
Few notable differences;
1. A Pokemon has to actually learn the move in order to get the other moves. So a Chandelure for example can't name itself "Perish Song" in order to get Torch Song or Enamorus can't name itself "Flash Cannon" to get Fleur Cannon or Armor Cannon.
2. You can learn multiple moves. For example, you can nickname a Pokemon "Dragon Dance" (if they learn that move) and they then have access to moves like Dragon Darts, Dragon Ascent, Dragon Energy, etc. as well as Fiery Dance, Revelation Dance, etc. You can totally run a Metagross named Hammer Arm that has Wood Hammer, Gigaton Hammer, and Ice Hammer on the same set.
3. Because you have to nickname your Pokemon, your opponent knows what moves you can and can't use. So if I have a Chandelure with the nickname "Acid Armor" I know for sure that Chandelure is not running moves like Electro Ball, Weather Ball, Blue Flare, Dragon Energy, Ice Beam, Moongeist Beam etc. and tells you that the Chandelure can be running moves like Armor Cannon or Apple Acid.
These changes would make hug differences in the metagame. You can't simply give any really strong Steel type Gigaton Hammer unless it knows a move with the words Hammer or Gigaton in it. There is no Normal types learning Boomburst or Extreme Speed at will. You also have an idea of what moves your opponent is using.
You also have to consider that some moves banned in Sketchmons might not be ban worthy here. Extreme Speed for example only has Rabsca as a Pokemon that can now learn the move. Or Astral Barrage which would only be usable on Pokemon that know Barb Barrage. Or what about Enamorus, which normally can give itself moves like Fleur Cannon, but can't here?
Secrets of Nature
Description: GF introduced moves like Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword all of which despite being special use opponent's defense stat. What if you could customize moves so that they replace opponent's defensive stats with any one of the 5 other stats based on your nature?
Metagame Premise:
- The damaging move placed in 1st slot will replace relevant defensive stat with the opposing stat for which user's nature is beneficial.
- The damaging move placed in 2nd slot will replace relevant defensive stat with the opposing stat for which user's nature is hindering.
- If the user has a neutral nature, all damaging moves function as normal.
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch (uses user's Sp. Attack, opponent's Speed)
- Shadow Ball (uses user's Sp. Attack, opponent's Attack)
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
Q: What about Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword?
A: These will retain their original mechanics stated in their descriptions regardless of the slot they are placed in.
Q: What about status moves like Strength Sap?
A: Status moves are exempt from the mechanics despite Strength Sap using opponent's Attack.
Q: What about status moves like Mimic, Sketch or Transform that can be used to copy other moves?
A: If a damaging move replaces the status move in slot 1 or 2, the mechanics will apply.
Q: How do Burn status, Huge Power, Pure Power or Choice Band and Specs work?
A: These affect the damage of the moves rather than the stats themselves so they won't factor into the defense stat.
Q: What about Reflect, Light Screen, Aurora Veil or defensive buffs from Snow or Sandstorm?
A: Same as above, these affect damage of moves rather than stats themselves.
Q: What about stuff like Eviolite, Assault Vest, Fur Coat?
A: These affect the stats and therefore will factor into the effective defense stat (given the relevant nature).
Q: What about Choice Scarf, Tailwind, Swift Swim etc?
A: These are direct changes to Speed stat, and therefore can replace defense.
A: These will retain their original mechanics stated in their descriptions regardless of the slot they are placed in.
Q: What about status moves like Strength Sap?
A: Status moves are exempt from the mechanics despite Strength Sap using opponent's Attack.
Q: What about status moves like Mimic, Sketch or Transform that can be used to copy other moves?
A: If a damaging move replaces the status move in slot 1 or 2, the mechanics will apply.
Q: How do Burn status, Huge Power, Pure Power or Choice Band and Specs work?
A: These affect the damage of the moves rather than the stats themselves so they won't factor into the defense stat.
Q: What about Reflect, Light Screen, Aurora Veil or defensive buffs from Snow or Sandstorm?
A: Same as above, these affect damage of moves rather than stats themselves.
Q: What about stuff like Eviolite, Assault Vest, Fur Coat?
A: These affect the stats and therefore will factor into the effective defense stat (given the relevant nature).
Q: What about Choice Scarf, Tailwind, Swift Swim etc?
A: These are direct changes to Speed stat, and therefore can replace defense.
Some viability changes:
Decreased Viability:
Bans: OU Banlist
Clauses: Existing ones + potentially Nature reveal clause
Q for Community: Fun to play? Too much FP (foe edition) vibes?
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You should add a section about Burn and Paralysis. Burn technically doesn’t halve attack stat and instead halve the total damage, which should be pointed out. Also Paralysis is really buffed here.
Description: GF introduced moves like Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword all of which despite being special use opponent's defense stat. What if you could customize moves so that they replace opponent's defensive stats with any one of the 5 other stats based on your nature?
Metagame Premise:
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch (uses user's Sp. Attack, opponent's Speed)
- Shadow Ball (uses user's Sp. Attack, opponent's Attack)
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
Q: What about Psyshock, Psystrike and Secret Sword?
A: These will retain their original mechanics stated in their descriptions regardless of the slot they are placed in.
Q: What about status moves like Strength Sap?
A: Status moves are exempt from the mechanics despite Strength Sap using opponent's Attack.
Q: What about status moves like Mimic, Sketch or Transform that can be used to copy other moves?
A: If a damaging move replaces the status move in slot 1 or 2, the mechanics will apply.
Some viability changes:
Intimidate is quite strong in this meta as you can use opponent's lowered attack against them. Adamant and Modest are also two of the best natures in the meta due to the rarity of pokemon having both stats high or running mixed sets.
Bug types also become more viable here, as Sticky Web helps you with moves using speed stat.
Moves like Mystical Fire, Rock Tomb, Lunge become viable to spam depending on your nature.
Ruin abilities are nice here as you can use that stat offensively.
Decreased Viability:
Self-detrimental moves such as Leaf Storm, Make it Rain, Draco Meteor that reduce user's stats become less viable here.
Trick Room also decreases in viability as low speed stat can easily be used against you.
Stall becomes a lot less viable as low speed and offensive stats become a lot more exploitable.
Bans: OU Banlist
Clauses: Existing ones + potentially Nature reveal clause
Q for Community: Fun to play? Too much FP (foe edition) vibes?
I extended the Q&A, if I'm not mistaken Huge/Pure Power fall under the same umbrella as the burn status, in terms of affecting damage and not the stat itself. In battles, however, stats are bolded to facilitate the player regardless.
ngl completely forgot about paralysis, guess the broken things kinda mirror Full Potential in a reverse sort of way.
Trying to gauge whether people want a gen 9 First Blood OM?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/first-blood.3682954/
If so, what would have to be done to get it?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/first-blood.3682954/
If so, what would have to be done to get it?
Theft
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.
Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.
I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.
Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.
Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.
I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.
Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?
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