Fair enough, though honestly given that just about every MegaGross runs either Earthquake or Hammer Arm no one really wants to switch Heatran in on MegaGross either. Ultimately, I'm not saying that this set can't take down Heatran. I just think that one should carry a back-up plan on taking out Heatran with this set since you borderline sacrifice MegaGross to take down one wall.
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Pokémon Metagross
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Yeah, after running some calcs myself, it would take a minimum of a +3 boost to have a chance of OHKOing a Heatran, +4 to guarantee it (both of these scenarios done under the assumption Rocks are up, if they're not then it'll need an extra boost for myprior statements to apply), so... not the ideal Metagross is not an ideal check to Heatran without more force. I'm still not letting go the viability of PuP Metagross because I'm a stubborn turd, but running Scarfchomp, or Terrakion if you have enough other stuff to resist EQ, on the same team is probably your best bet.
Lava Plume will burn every time you don't want it too lol
it'll become obv you dont have EQ if you switch out when Heatran comes in(you cant afford a burn), they might be vary of hammer arm.
I think scarf Heatran may see rise specially for MegaGross, since Greninja can't OHKO with Dark Pulse, and after not being steel resistant, BP does 50+ to it.
it'll become obv you dont have EQ if you switch out when Heatran comes in(you cant afford a burn), they might be vary of hammer arm.
I think scarf Heatran may see rise specially for MegaGross, since Greninja can't OHKO with Dark Pulse, and after not being steel resistant, BP does 50+ to it.
With the EQ and/or Hammer Arm threat there though anyway, it seems pretty unlikely that they'll switch Heatran in on a Megagross unless they've seen your whole movepool or it's their last ditch effort at taking down your Megagross; that is if it's not Scarfed, if it is then you're forced to switch, EQ or not, because Fire Blast/Overheat takes you out before you can get an EQ off, maybe even Flamethrower if Rocks are up. Scarf Heatran seems like a bane of any Megagross besides an Agility one with a boost up or a BP set-up one no matter what moveset you're running.
PuP turns Ferrothorn into setup fodder though, unless it runs Twave. It can Leech Seed stall obv, but that gives MegaGross just more opportunities to boost.
Haven't done any testing with it, but it doesn't sound that bad tbh.
Haven't done any testing with it, but it doesn't sound that bad tbh.
Not even close. Between iron barbs and leech seed/protect, Ferro stalls out Megagross and still has half its health remaining. Just tried it out.
PuP is pretty bad. It doesn't hit anything hard enough. At least Hone Claws fixes up the accuracy of Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt, which has the bad habit of missing in crucial moments. I can't even recommend that either, since scarf Lando-T and Greninja are everywhere and it just makes its 4MSS even worse
Agility set and 4 attacking moves are its best sets imo
Ah, forgot Iron Barbs. It's probably not worth using then, as a 4th attack would be much better.
The only thing any Metagross really has for Ferrathorn is Hammer Arm, PuP does more than anything else Megagross typically uses, barring Hammer Arm, but even then it's a 3HKO unless you got a boost off on something before. And T-Wave is a thing, it's a pretty crippling thing, Atk boosts won't mean much when any offensive hard-hitter with EQ can outspeed and OHKO you after recoil. Without reliable recovery, it's pretty tough thinking of anything Megagross can really set up on the face of with the abundance of EQs and Fire moves slapped on anything that can learn them. Maybe full offensive wallbreaker is just the way to go...
What are you guys running with Metagross in your cores? I hear Hydregion is a popular choice, but I'd like to know a few more options.
All of Zapdos, Clefable, Sylveon, Magnezone, and Keldeo make good partners. Bar Magnezone, they all have good defensive synergy, and Clefable and Sylveon can Wish Pass to Gross if they need to. In keldeos case, Metagross simply takes out of pony's checks, paving way for a CM or Scarf sweep. Magnezone just gets rid of annoying shit like ferro, Skarm, and Bulky Scizor, while also taking on the likes of Slowbro really well.
Is it any better than brick break? brick break doesn't lower you speed and it goes through screens.
Yes, Hammer Arm is a better move for wallbreaking as Skarmory is ubiquitous and the speed drops allow you to become slower than Skarmory and then hit it after it uses Roost, and thus it will have lost its Flying-type and the Hammer Arm will hit it for Super Effective damage.
Yes it could be viable, but metagross is probably bulky enough to take some hits even if it's outsped at -1.
Also power drop is noticable:
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 158-188 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 212-250 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also power drop is noticable:
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 158-188 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 212-250 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
My team seems to be having trouble with this thing. Do you guys know of any reliable checks / counters to it?
Skarmory is one of the best full counters there is. Doesn't like Thunder Punch or HP Fire but those are pretty rare. I think Earthquake Bronzong is a pretty good answer to it too, being able to take any of its possible moves though it does have the tendency to get worn down. Slowbro beats any non-Grass Knot variant with ease, as does Quagsire. Scarf Landorus-T can revenge kill it but it can't switch into it too many times, and watch out for Ice Punch because they tend to carry that from experience. There are probably a bunch more good answers to it but those are the main ones I can think of atm
Mandibuzz is a good answer as it can come in on Meteor Mash and do 80-90% with Foul Play
Calcs for 248/136+ Mandibuzz
Calcs for 248/252+ Mandibuzz
Calcs against M-Metagross
Calcs for 248/136+ Mandibuzz
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 163-193 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 182-216 (43 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 182-216 (43 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Calcs for 248/252+ Mandibuzz
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 166-196 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 166-196 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Calcs against M-Metagross
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's really not that reliable.
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
If Stealth Rocks are up Mandibuzz only needs a bit of prior damage to guarantee being 2HKO'd and if Metagross gets an attack boost then SR doesn't need to be on the field, only a bit of residual damage to guarantee being 2HKO'd. I'd classify it as a shaky or soft counter.
What have you guys been running for EVs and moves for Agiligross? Adamant with 108 Speed is all you need to beat Scarf Greninja at +2 (along with every Swift Swimmer and Adamant Excadrill) and Scarf Lando-T at +1 (important if you use Hammer Arm for coverage).
I run 28 speed, outspeeding every relevant scarfer at +2. Never seen Scarfninja tbh. I run Thunderpunch/Ice Punch/Meteor Mash as my 3 attacks, as I need electric coverage to take out bulky waters. Ice Punch OHKO's Lando-T after rocks too:
-1 252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 284-336 (89 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
However trying to sweep after that is difficult, so try and remove it before attempting a sweep. I've never missed Zen Headbutt though, and found Thunderpunch more useful in general.
I personally run a 176 HP / 252 Attack / 80 Spe spread with an Adamant nature, as it outspeeds literally every unboosted mon the the tier at +2 (bar the rare Jolly Excadrill in sand, which fails to OHKO MegaGross with Earthquake without the Attack boosting nature) and still maintains bulk and hits like a train.
Also, is Scarf Greninja even a thing? A 1.5x Speed modifier on top of 122 base speed just seems really redundant, especially when it could be holding LO or, hell, maybe even Focus Sash. Being choice-locked also goes against Greninja's ability Protean. Scarf Greninja isn't really anything that should be taken into consideration when you're building a set IMO.
MegaGross can't beat Greninja anyway due to its typing, unless it chooses to run Hammer Arm or the rare Thunder Punch as one of its coverage moves.
Also, is Scarf Greninja even a thing? A 1.5x Speed modifier on top of 122 base speed just seems really redundant, especially when it could be holding LO or, hell, maybe even Focus Sash. Being choice-locked also goes against Greninja's ability Protean. Scarf Greninja isn't really anything that should be taken into consideration when you're building a set IMO.
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