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Format Discussion Metronome Battle

Raidx said:
I don't think it should be banned tbh. It is a fantastic mon but it's not really broken. Unlike Magearna which was able to run a plethora of different abilities and items, M-Scizor is pretty much just limited to Flash Fire and Choice Band. It has no weaknesses with Flash Fire which is amazing, but it doesn't make it broken. I'd say it's definitely a top 3 mon in the format though along with PokeSpirit (which should be banned imo because it's a Pokestar studios "mon" which aren't even Pokemon in the first place) and Celesteela.
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Isn't as much as it being broken as it being overcentralizing.
 
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Disagree. People aren't just carrying Mold Breaker for Flash Fire MSciz/Genesect (quite a lot of things run Flash Fire because fire is one of the most common attacking types iirc and steels in general appreciate it). They're carrying it because there are a lot of annoying immunity abilities going around generally, most notably Magic Bounce but also things like Storm Drain and Lightningrod. Mold Breaker is just a nice catch-all utility ability and I'm surprised it's not seeing more use than it is.
 
SadisticMystic said:
I did manage to get an in-game test, and can conclude that the Metronome item does not boost Metronome as a move, except perhaps if you get extremely lucky and roll the same move twice in a row.
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A potential way to test this would be to alternate between Nature Power and Tri Attack (assuming normal terrain); my guess is that it's possible that the Tri Attack is boosted by the previous Nature Power turning into Tri Attack but the reverse seems unlikely.
 
DJSkrelp said:
Mega scizor needs banned. It is overcentralized, and I've seen two people run turboblaze(moltres and heatran) for it. It has nothing countering it otherwise(it can hold mental herb or lum berry and just be an annoying unchecked support mon, and using it's counters put you at a huge disadvantage imo).
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It's not the end of the world to fight really. Mind, the banded set hits hard but with the chance to pull Special Attacks and Status-and moves that miss or get it hurt-there's not much to fear. Just give it time to delve into a Magearna-less meta then try to hit with a better observation over it. I still see it being beaten by the likes of Heatran with/without Mold/Tera/Turbo or other things that resist its STABs.
 
Maliega said:
I still see it being beaten by the likes of Heatran with/without Mold/Tera/Turbo or other things that resist its STABs.
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I don't think STABs are the main thing to worry about here, it's more about its raw physical power that lets it hit very hard in general. Steels also are just bulky and resistant to a lot of things in general. I do agree that Scizor's low Special Attack makes it more "risky"/less consistent in my eyes than a mixed attacker.

EDIT: Take Pelipper, it's not going to be a Scizor counter even if it resists its STABs because Scizor can just punch that bird with one of many neutral physical attacks. Stats and defensive typings matter a lot more than STAB possibilities on a mon in my opinion, it's just a nice bonus like critical hits.
 
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doipy hooves said:
I don't think STABs are the main thing to worry about here, it's more about its raw physical power that lets it hit very hard in general. Steels also are just bulky and resistant to a lot of things in general. I do agree that Scizor's low Special Attack makes it more "risky"/less consistent in my eyes than a mixed attacker.

EDIT: Take Pelipper, it's not going to be a Scizor counter even if it resists its STABs because Scizor can just punch that bird with one of many neutral physical attacks. Stats and defensive typings matter a lot more than STAB possibilities on a mon in my opinion, it's just a nice bonus like critical hits.
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To add on from there, take Moltres, Celesteela, Buzzwole, Pokestar MT2, and Pokestar Spirit. These are new meta staples that are either anti-meta for Scizor or just general around for ladder climbing. But remember, Pelipper isn't in the meta due to it being an abysmal way to jump into a tier where bulk and power is everything, to which the peilcan does not.

A better example would have been Mega Sableye, considering that in spite of Spirit having more offensive capabilites where Sab has bulk, Mega Scizor can still hit it with neutral moves that don't miss for some pretty hefty damage. But with the chance of Mega Scizor pulling Gastro Acid only to be bounced back onto it, being Entrainment'd or Role Play'd, or being hit by a stray Core Enforcer from a Sab or an opponent's slower mon, it's best not to look at Scizor as a BIG HOSS POWERHOUSE THAT'LL DOMINATE THE META IF WE DON'T RISE UP AND BAN IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

It, just like anything new that becomes popular or considered overcentralized, needs time. Unless you can somehow gather up a group of people to run double Mega Sciz that somehow gets granted advantageous moves over its counters and checks.
 
Maliega said:
It, just like anything new that becomes popular or considered overcentralized, needs time. Unless you can somehow gather up a group of people to run double Mega Sciz that somehow gets granted advantageous moves over its counters and checks.
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My whole point is that you don't have a check or counter for anything in this meta. It's totally random. People don't use steels to "counter" Scizor just because they resist its Bug and Steel STABs. In the case of steels, people use them because they're good in general. That's it. Mega Sableye wouldn't have been a good example because I was trying to show you that resisting STABs does not a good mon make.

Speaking of Sableye and Spirit, here's another example: people are not using dark types to "counter" their Dark and Ghost STAB because STAB is not that big of a deal here. Speaking of things that aren't a big deal, losing its ability is a low random chance and it isn't even the end of the world for it.
 
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum:

Lil Broomstick (Empoleon) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Lil Cam (Camerupt-Mega) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Posting the team that got me into laddering this tier.

Empoleon and Mega Camerupt don't have too many weaknesses and even share one with Ground moves. Though Camerupt's crippling Water weakness is nulled by Storm Drain(sucking up all things Water that isn't nammed Water Pledge), Empoleon still has Fighting to be worried about. Though with Magearna gone, all you really need to worry about is Mega Scizor, stray Marshadows and Pokestar Spirit.

I find this more of a beginner's team, for anyone rushing into the meta head-first but not head-strong. Maybe even for some with some experience toying with Metronome mons. Now, Naviathan accomplishes the same presence as Empoleon, even possessing Attack power so that you can hit frail defenses on both spectrums beyong just the specially weak. But with Mega Scizor around, you'll want to hit it more on its weakest guard than its strongest. Celesteela is a substitute, as other versions of this team synergy has been seen on the Met Battle Ladder, but I prefer Empoleon since it has more weaknesses to abuse Weakness Policy.

If you find anyone with Mega Cam and a Lightning Rod user, let them know I did it first.
 
I got to 9th on the ladder in a hour and a half total playtime (I started it before bed than started it after my morning class). I used double pokestar spirit. I really do think we should ban double pokemon, as they are really unentertaining. Furthermore, I still believe we should ban Pokestar Spirit, and the fakemons in general. To "check" Pokestar without RNG, you need to run Pixelate or Scrappy. I've seen a lot of Scrappy Marshadows on the tier, who attempt to try and check the Pokestar Spirit, but they do not succeed. I have also seen Pixelate/Flower veil combinations that seemed to work, but I've played those teams before. I feel like the only one they do well against is Pokestar Spirit, and thus is the only reason they're even ran. I will attempt to test other things in the same way(I want to try mono Pokestar MT, for example).

Here is the team data, by the way:

mash metronome (Pokestar Spirit) (M) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

mash metronome (Pokestar Spirit) (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome



1524847858412.png
 
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DJSkrelp said:
I got to 9th on the ladder in a hour and a half total playtime (I started it before bed than started it after my morning class). I used double pokestar spirit. I really do think we should ban double pokemon, as they are really unentertaining. Furthermore, I still believe we should ban Pokestar Spirit, and the fakemons in general. To "check" Pokestar without RNG, you need to run Pixelate or Scrappy. I've seen a lot of Scrappy Marshadows on the tier, who attempt to try and check the Pokestar Spirit, but they do not succeed. I have also seen Pixelate/Flower veil combinations that seemed to work, but I've played those teams before. I feel like the only one they do well against is Pokestar Spirit, and thus is the only reason they're even ran. I will attempt to test other things in the same way(I want to try mono Pokestar MT, for example).

Here is the team data, by the way:

mash metronome (Pokestar Spirit) (M) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

mash metronome (Pokestar Spirit) (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome



View attachment 112897
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Oh hey, I'm still on there.
 
I'll throw my lot in with the people who think that seeing double Magic Bounce Pokestar-Spirit every other match is getting really, really old. It's probably the only mon, even pre-Magearna ban, that has been so ubiquitous that I've ended up bringing tech like Scrappy and Pixilate specifically to counter it.

I don't know if it's overpowered, but it is really boring, and the fact that it's a fakemon makes losing to it feel worse.
 
Rarycaris said:
I'll throw my lot in with the people who think that seeing double Magic Bounce Pokestar-Spirit every other match is getting really, really old. It's probably the only mon, even pre-Magearna ban, that has been so ubiquitous that I've ended up bringing tech like Scrappy and Pixilate specifically to counter it.

I don't know if it's overpowered, but it is really boring, and the fact that it's a fakemon makes losing to it feel worse.
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As far as I can tell, bulky steels, such as Heatran, Metagross, Pokestar MT, Pokestar MT2 and Registeel, have no particular problems with it. (Tested using Magic Bounce Weakness Policy against Magic Bounce Lum Berry Pokestar Spirit.) Flash Fire Lum Berry Scizor-Mega also seems capable of handling it.

In fact, Pokestar Spirit was the only check for Magic Bounce Weakness Policy Heatran that I could find. Heatran also benefits from being immune to burn and poison of course, so it works well against Flame Body users too.
 
urkerab said:
As far as I can tell, bulky steels, such as Heatran, Metagross, Pokestar MT, Pokestar MT2 and Registeel, have no particular problems with it. (Tested using Magic Bounce Weakness Policy against Magic Bounce Lum Berry Pokestar Spirit.) Flash Fire Lum Berry Scizor-Mega also seems capable of handling it.

In fact, Pokestar Spirit was the only check for Magic Bounce Weakness Policy Heatran that I could find. Heatran also benefits from being immune to burn and poison of course, so it works well against Flame Body users too.
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Double magic bounce pokespirit is unoptimal. See my team(posted above). I believe having at least one run magic bounce is good, though.
 
Mind you, if Defiant, Competitive and Weakness Policy start getting popular, you'll find people start running Unaware against you. (Unaware struggles against Flash Fire Scizor though.)
 
urkerab said:
Mind you, if Defiant, Competitive and Weakness Policy start getting popular, you'll find people start running Unaware against you. (Unaware struggles against Flash Fire Scizor though.)
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That shows how polarizing Spirit is, though. Needs banned. Also, that is why only one of them is defiant/competitive.
 
Hey, I just wanted to show my sets. Tell me what you guys think.
Volcano (Camerupt-Mega) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Plasmanta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

I for one think that these two pokes synergizes pretty well. The Camerupt can use any ground type moves withouth worrying about harming the Plasmanta with its Poison/Electric Typing, and the Camperupt gets rid of its main weakness in water.
 
Someone asked me if the item metronome could boost the moves used by metronome, the result of the test was positive
Metronome give a 2x boost after 5 turns of consecutive uses even of metronome no matter what move metronome use
 
Greenheroes said:
Someone asked me if the item metronome could boost the moves used by metronome, the result of the test was positive
Metronome give a 2x boost after 5 turns of consecutive uses even of metronome no matter what move metronome use
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I'm 99% sure this is a bug in Showdown and does not happen in game. But it is pretty important to note for this meta when it gets fixed.
 
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