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Ladder Mix and Mega

Bisharbash said:
This bad boy has picked off more Heatrans in this OM than I can count.

Excadrill @ Pinsirite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin/Double-Edge/Frustration
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect/Double-Edge/Frustration

Mold breaker allows his earthquake to nail Lati@site users, and he can lay down stealth rocks through magic bounce. Protect before mega-evolving can scout the close combat off a Lopunnite Staraptor or Landorus-T, which can usually be picked off next turn with an earthquake (or you can just go ballsdeep and use an aerilate-boosted attack right away). The change in typing is just fantastic for Exca defensively.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Something really good about this set is that not only does Excadrill get a great offensive boost and improvement in typing, it also gets an unblockable rapid spin.

Also, I've found that Manectite can be very useful on Volt Switch users, since they can get off an intimidate on the opponent, and the mega stone adds bulk, speed, and special attack (although without an attack boost it doesn't really benefit U-turn users). Manectite electric types also serve as fantastic checks to Pinsirite users (especially Aerilate-boosted Extremespeeds).

I think Raikou should be listed with Manectite (probably in C), and Pidgeotite should be added to Zapdos' stones. Noivern should be in C or B since Altarianite and Salamencite boombursts do a ton, and it can use Pidgeotite very well with perfectly accurate Focus Blasts, Draco Meteors, and Hurricanes.
 
Making this post here because there is no more relevant place in all honesty.

Yesterday I was having a bad day, in light of finding out my mom was in the hospital along with several other complicating factors. I was on an alt and decided to be a shit user and trash talk for no particular reason, which is something I often get away with on my normal account, probably because I actually contribute to OMs. Well, this time I was on an alt and got permabanned from the OMs room. In all honesty, I deserved every bit of the ban a long time ago. It's about time I took a step back and asked myself what the fuck I was doing by acting that way in a community like this - I was nice to randoms but if they tried me at all I would become a total bitch. I finally got what I deserved, it seems.

So I need to get this off my chest. I'm taking a break from Oms as a whole, probably never to come back, just because I recently realized how terrible I had made myself out to be. For the past month or so I've been backing away and trying to be only a positive chat presence in general, hoping to recover some of that reputation, but one bad day and a user saying the wrong thing to me erased all of that, it seems. It's probably a good thing; I realize there was probably no changing my reputation by now. It was established a long time ago.

I came to this community in a time of mental need, when I needed something I could go do in my spare time that was simple yet worked my brain. No longer in that emotionally and mentally challenging time, I realize I have no need for this anymore and should be spending time with my friends irl.

With that in mind, I need to say sorry, and to a laundry list of people, for being so terrible. This community has been nothing but great to me and the way I tend to treat it at times makes me unworthy of their time or effort. I will forever cherish my time spent with so many great people, and I'm so sorry I couldn't give back.
Kingslayer2779 Seriously, I can't believe you put up with me after the shit I pull. You seem to go out of your way to attempt to try to be my friend anyways, which I truly appreciate. You've been a great person to talk to, and thank you for trying to be my friend despite how much I know you don't like a part of me.
Snaquaza From Mediocre-mons to inheritance to bugging the shit out of you in attempt to get you to update Mix-and-Mega to fix the glitch on Aqua, you have been a part of my Oms experience for a long time now, and you have been nothing but great. I will never forget the time we spent on those godforsaken inheritance viability rankings, but it was so much fun.
unfixable You have probably wanted to ban me for a long time, but thank you for trying your hardest to keep me in Oms. I had a hard time with you occasionally; you were only so lax in your rulings, yet you put up with me for a very long time. We had more than a few nice conversations, and I really appreciated how much you cared when you should've just banned me a long time ago.
Eevee General Stabmons or Hidden OU, you were one of my few true friends on PS. I'm sure some of the logs of our conversations were a bit much, but the arguments we had were worth it. I remember all of those late night conversations about STABmons or Hidden OU or a certain user or Inheritance getting a permaladder - whatever it was I had a good time, even if it was an argument. Thank you for putting up with my shit for so long, I'm sure if I was anybody else you would've permabanned me long ago as well.
imas234 I told you to go to bed too many times. We had a lot of face-offs a while ago if I remember correctly, but I have to say I'm sorry for all of the shit I keep pulling around you. I really wished I would've been less of a piece of shit, you are fun to talk to in the OM room.
aesf We had a lot of fun playing AAA together, exploring PANDA when Monte said it was shit, and it always was fun to talk to you. I wish I could've been less of an asshole, because I probably would've ended up being much closer to you at some point - you were always somebody I wanted to be around.
Adrian Marin Dude, it has been too much fun trying to beat your stall teams. When I get in my moods, you swiftly mute me - but for whatever reason you seemed to bring out the best in my OM abilities whenever you were around. You really make me a nicer person, oddly enough, and the conversations I have had with you in this community bring me back. One of the best and most respected players will talk to somebody like me, even though I was an absolute nobody, like an equal. You really make me wish I was a better person in this community; it deserves nothing less.
Lcass4919 You are just like me - When you are angry, you RAGE. Unlike me, you control it and actually manage to be a great guy to everybody. Besides the fact you don't capitalize anything, you are a great player and a person I wish I saw more of, it was always fun talking and/or debating with you in OMs.
Ransei It's been fun to play with you so often all this time. I honestly wish I got to do more building with you, and just generally talk to you more, as I really didn't see you enough in my time here. It has been a pleasure whenever I have been around you.
Peef Rimgar I remember when you joined this community and weren't even a voiced user. Right around the time of inheritance ladder, we became decent friends, and you really were a good guy. I still remember testing inheritance teams constantly in anticipation of the ladder with you, and it all was a blast. Once you became driver, we drifted apart, but I never forgot that initial friendship. You are a great guy to be around, and if there has to be one person to lead OMs in the future, I hope its you. I'm sorry you had to mute me so many times late at night especially; it would've been really fun to just hang out and talk OMs with you.
Pikachuun Mr. Metagame coder, its been a fun ride. I haven't seen enough of you, but even though I know you don't like me all that much, you have managed to be nothing but incredibly nice and helpful whenever I'm around, and I truly appreciate what you have done for me. I'm sorry I had to be the guy you didn't like, you really shouldn't have been so amiable towards me.
GummyPotato Idk if you even use this account anymore, but it was fun trolling you over and over for no reason. That fateful hackmons CC cup where I got haxed by the delcatty was just the beginning, since subsequently destroying you in the stabmons daily created a heated rivalry that wasn't so heated. It was always fun, man, and I hope to see you around on the server.
motherlove The old days of inheritance ubers. I can't even begin to count the number of battles we racked up, or the amount of trash-talking that went on in some of those battles (do you still have THE replay?), but it was always a good time with you. I had so much fun with you in my time in OMs, so thank you for being my friend.
Deathly ♛The King Trolling with you was fun enough, but thanks for being so lively at all times. I honestly don't know why you aren't voiced, you really are a "model user". Regardless, it was always hilarious to see you attempt to create TS hype, since it was almost constantly happening. Whenever I battled you, in whatever tier, it was always great - I felt we were very matched in skill. Sorry, I really was a dick to you at times.
AllJokesAside I only met you recently, but I can only say its been great. While before I felt like you could be jaded at times, I realized you really weren't, and were actually a great guy. One day, you'll be better than Adrian, I can tell you that. You make really good stall teams and are fun to play with. I only wish I could stick around to see where you go.
The Immortal I already apologized to you on PS, but I feel like I still need to. You have done an incredible job in building up OM into a force to be reckoned with, and do a great job managing everything about this. Your leadership is wonderful, and I'm sure you will continue to lead well for a long time to come. My mom in the hospital does not excuse me for my actions, and I'm sorry for the shit I pulled. You had every right to ban me and I would've honestly done the same. Sorry for stealing your time and making the OM room, at times, a much less happier place.
I'm sure there are quite a few others, and whoever I forgot, I am sorry. I probably will not be playing showdown very much for a long while, so if you want to talk to me, tell me how terrible of a person I am, or anything else, my skype is here: Grandmasterboom-ownage

This leaves one issue. The Mix-and-Mega council. I will stay on for a while, as I will be occasionally laddering and probably playing this tier almost exclusively for a while, so for now, this is a non-issue. After OMOTM, I will likely step down from the council and may step away from OMs entirely. It's been a fun ride; thank you Ghoul King for the opportunity to be at the top of decision making for such an incredible tier. I hope this tier goes a long ways. I will cherish the remainder of this month I get to spend playing this metagame, and good luck to all I face.

I hope my demeanor changes after this lesson learned and I can come back strong. This isn't something I need anymore, so I will likely only get on 2-3 times a week, rather than how often I play now. This is probably a good thing. Hopefully, when I play occasionally, I can keep myself more limited and be a better chat presence.
 
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This is not really a good core, but it is fun:

Latios @ Sablenite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Memento
- Whirlpool

Linoone @ Pinsirite (Salamencite / Glalite / Altarianite)
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Dig
- Seed Bomb

If it isn't obvious, Latios traps something that can't prevent Linoone from sweeping, sets up both screens, uses Memento, then Linoone is sent in and Belly Drums. It's nice because Linoone is tied for the fastest Espeeder. This is (almost objectively) the best and "only possible" variation of this core (bar Latios EV/nature) because aside from Smeargle (which is so frail that it will die before it's able to set up both screens and then memento) and Magcargo (less bulky and worse defensive typing than Latios; overall should be able to trap and set up on fewer things) Latios is the only Pokemon that learns both screens, Memento, and has the ability to trap.

Sablenite is really the only choice for Latios because you need to prevent things like Taunt and sleep moves, and it gives the best overall bulk. Altarianite might not be the best for Linoone since it doesn't give a speed bonus, which allows things like Pinsirite Lucario and Zygarde to outspeed Altarianite Linoone, which of course is bad because the whole point is to win the game with Linoone. Pinsirite gives the most attack but Salamencite gives more physical defense if you need help surviving after the Belly Drum. Glalite gives good stats too; depends on which type of Espeed you think is better, of course.

Dig is Linoone's best coverage move to go with whichever type of Espeed. It's okay that it's a 2-turn move though (unless your opponent uses EQ) because if something can live a +6 -ate Espeed, they're probably slower than Linoone and weak to Ground, so you'll be able to get the Dig off safely. Seed Bomb is the best coverage in conjuction with Dig and Espeed (for Rock types if Aerilate or Water types if Refrigerate). There are only a couple things that wall this like Skarm, but obviously you get rid of stuff like that before trying to set up. It sounds impossible for Linoone to be able to set up with it being so frail and the mons in this meta being so strong, but:

-2 252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsirite Linoone through Light Screen: 63-75 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

You wouldn't want to try setting up on Gengar though, both because Latios will die to it and because it can put Linoone to sleep, but that just illustrates the point of how powerful Screens + Memento is. Again though, this core isn't very good, it's just fun.
 
Thanks xJownage it's been a fun time talking with you wherever it was the other metas chat or here in the om forums it's been a fun time knowing you i'm pretty sure a lot of guys will miss you go for whatever you please and if you somehow return we will welcome you with open arms thanks for everything.

edit: and yes i know this isn't the right place to post it but who cares.
 
I want to drop a couple of sets to give people a good idea how to handle ate-speed without losing offensive pressure.


This first set is pretty simple. Birdspeed dislikes it a bit.

Eelektross is an overlooked electric type with poor speed but a great ability.
Latiasite benefits it by allowing it to retain its great ability while also giving good boosts to its already nice mixed attacking stats, as well as an extra bit of bulk. Its attacking stats go up to a respectable 135/135 while its bulk goes up to 85/110/100. It maintains a base speed of 50 allowing for it to tank a hit and follow up with a slow Volt Switch/U-turn. The move pool on this thing is pretty decent too.

Eelektross @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Super Fang

The other set I'm going to share is Aggronite Gyarados.
Ive been pretty successful with this set, it catches some off guard. The ones who know what to expect from it are forced into 50/50 mind games before mevo. Thunderbolt is the best way to deal with it. The type change aggronite provides is really nice for Gyarados as well as the physical bulk. I especially appreciate how Water/Flying Gyarados will resist Luc/Entei/Arcanine secondary stab before mevo and resist atespeed after mevo which allows me a free DD or Sub on a correct prediction.
Iron tail is also usable but the misses will make you rage.

Gyarados @ Aggronite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 48 HP / 208 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
 
20150119044512!Hydreigon_XY.gif
pidgeot-mega.gif

remove altarianite (Hydreigon) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse / Flash Cannon

Abusing all the low accuracy moves Hydreigon has to offer (no blizzard ;-;) with a MONSTROUS 190 Sp. Atk and a "I can actually outspeed some things before they mega evolve now" speed of 118 comes Pidgeotite.
4th attack slot is a choice between STAB and being scared of Fairies. I guess you could slot in Dragon Pulse instead but when are you ever going to really need a weaker Dragon STAB in this format?





What's Pixispeed? Nah that can't possibly exist pls leave me and my dragon alone ;-;
no bullying allowed
 
xJownage said:
Making this post here because there is no more relevant place in all honesty.

Yesterday I was having a bad day, in light of finding out my mom was in the hospital along with several other complicating factors. I was on an alt and decided to be a shit user and trash talk for no particular reason, which is something I often get away with on my normal account, probably because I actually contribute to OMs. Well, this time I was on an alt and got permabanned from the OMs room. In all honesty, I deserved every bit of the ban a long time ago. It's about time I took a step back and asked myself what the fuck I was doing by acting that way in a community like this - I was nice to randoms but if they tried me at all I would become a total bitch. I finally got what I deserved, it seems.

So I need to get this off my chest. I'm taking a break from Oms as a whole, probably never to come back, just because I recently realized how terrible I had made myself out to be. For the past month or so I've been backing away and trying to be only a positive chat presence in general, hoping to recover some of that reputation, but one bad day and a user saying the wrong thing to me erased all of that, it seems. It's probably a good thing; I realize there was probably no changing my reputation by now. It was established a long time ago.

I came to this community in a time of mental need, when I needed something I could go do in my spare time that was simple yet worked my brain. No longer in that emotionally and mentally challenging time, I realize I have no need for this anymore and should be spending time with my friends irl.

With that in mind, I need to say sorry, and to a laundry list of people, for being so terrible. This community has been nothing but great to me and the way I tend to treat it at times makes me unworthy of their time or effort. I will forever cherish my time spent with so many great people, and I'm so sorry I couldn't give back.
Kingslayer2779 Seriously, I can't believe you put up with me after the shit I pull. You seem to go out of your way to attempt to try to be my friend anyways, which I truly appreciate. You've been a great person to talk to, and thank you for trying to be my friend despite how much I know you don't like a part of me.
Snaquaza From Mediocre-mons to inheritance to bugging the shit out of you in attempt to get you to update Mix-and-Mega to fix the glitch on Aqua, you have been a part of my Oms experience for a long time now, and you have been nothing but great. I will never forget the time we spent on those godforsaken inheritance viability rankings, but it was so much fun.
unfixable You have probably wanted to ban me for a long time, but thank you for trying your hardest to keep me in Oms. I had a hard time with you occasionally; you were only so lax in your rulings, yet you put up with me for a very long time. We had more than a few nice conversations, and I really appreciated how much you cared when you should've just banned me a long time ago.
Eevee General Stabmons or Hidden OU, you were one of my few true friends on PS. I'm sure some of the logs of our conversations were a bit much, but the arguments we had were worth it. I remember all of those late night conversations about STABmons or Hidden OU or a certain user or Inheritance getting a permaladder - whatever it was I had a good time, even if it was an argument. Thank you for putting up with my shit for so long, I'm sure if I was anybody else you would've permabanned me long ago as well.
imas234 I told you to go to bed too many times. We had a lot of face-offs a while ago if I remember correctly, but I have to say I'm sorry for all of the shit I keep pulling around you. I really wished I would've been less of a piece of shit, you are fun to talk to in the OM room.
aesf We had a lot of fun playing AAA together, exploring PANDA when Monte said it was shit, and it always was fun to talk to you. I wish I could've been less of an asshole, because I probably would've ended up being much closer to you at some point - you were always somebody I wanted to be around.
Adrian Marin Dude, it has been too much fun trying to beat your stall teams. When I get in my moods, you swiftly mute me - but for whatever reason you seemed to bring out the best in my OM abilities whenever you were around. You really make me a nicer person, oddly enough, and the conversations I have had with you in this community bring me back. One of the best and most respected players will talk to somebody like me, even though I was an absolute nobody, like an equal. You really make me wish I was a better person in this community; it deserves nothing less.
Lcass4919 You are just like me - When you are angry, you RAGE. Unlike me, you control it and actually manage to be a great guy to everybody. Besides the fact you don't capitalize anything, you are a great player and a person I wish I saw more of, it was always fun talking and/or debating with you in OMs.
Ransei It's been fun to play with you so often all this time. I honestly wish I got to do more building with you, and just generally talk to you more, as I really didn't see you enough in my time here. It has been a pleasure whenever I have been around you.
Peef Rimgar I remember when you joined this community and weren't even a voiced user. Right around the time of inheritance ladder, we became decent friends, and you really were a good guy. I still remember testing inheritance teams constantly in anticipation of the ladder with you, and it all was a blast. Once you became driver, we drifted apart, but I never forgot that initial friendship. You are a great guy to be around, and if there has to be one person to lead OMs in the future, I hope its you. I'm sorry you had to mute me so many times late at night especially; it would've been really fun to just hang out and talk OMs with you.
Pikachuun Mr. Metagame coder, its been a fun ride. I haven't seen enough of you, but even though I know you don't like me all that much, you have managed to be nothing but incredibly nice and helpful whenever I'm around, and I truly appreciate what you have done for me. I'm sorry I had to be the guy you didn't like, you really shouldn't have been so amiable towards me.
GummyPotato Idk if you even use this account anymore, but it was fun trolling you over and over for no reason. That fateful hackmons CC cup where I got haxed by the delcatty was just the beginning, since subsequently destroying you in the stabmons daily created a heated rivalry that wasn't so heated. It was always fun, man, and I hope to see you around on the server.
motherlove The old days of inheritance ubers. I can't even begin to count the number of battles we racked up, or the amount of trash-talking that went on in some of those battles (do you still have THE replay?), but it was always a good time with you. I had so much fun with you in my time in OMs, so thank you for being my friend.
Deathly ♛The King Trolling with you was fun enough, but thanks for being so lively at all times. I honestly don't know why you aren't voiced, you really are a "model user". Regardless, it was always hilarious to see you attempt to create TS hype, since it was almost constantly happening. Whenever I battled you, in whatever tier, it was always great - I felt we were very matched in skill. Sorry, I really was a dick to you at times.
AllJokesAside I only met you recently, but I can only say its been great. While before I felt like you could be jaded at times, I realized you really weren't, and were actually a great guy. One day, you'll be better than Adrian, I can tell you that. You make really good stall teams and are fun to play with. I only wish I could stick around to see where you go.
The Immortal I already apologized to you on PS, but I feel like I still need to. You have done an incredible job in building up OM into a force to be reckoned with, and do a great job managing everything about this. Your leadership is wonderful, and I'm sure you will continue to lead well for a long time to come. My mom in the hospital does not excuse me for my actions, and I'm sorry for the shit I pulled. You had every right to ban me and I would've honestly done the same. Sorry for stealing your time and making the OM room, at times, a much less happier place.
I'm sure there are quite a few others, and whoever I forgot, I am sorry. I probably will not be playing showdown very much for a long while, so if you want to talk to me, tell me how terrible of a person I am, or anything else, my skype is here: Grandmasterboom-ownage

This leaves one issue. The Mix-and-Mega council. I will stay on for a while, as I will be occasionally laddering and probably playing this tier almost exclusively for a while, so for now, this is a non-issue. After OMOTM, I will likely step down from the council and may step away from OMs entirely. It's been a fun ride; thank you Ghoul King for the opportunity to be at the top of decision making for such an incredible tier. I hope this tier goes a long ways. I will cherish the remainder of this month I get to spend playing this metagame, and good luck to all I face.

I hope my demeanor changes after this lesson learned and I can come back strong. This isn't something I need anymore, so I will likely only get on 2-3 times a week, rather than how often I play now. This is probably a good thing. Hopefully, when I play occasionally, I can keep myself more limited and be a better chat presence.
Click to expand...
Before I actually post concerning MnM, I want to respond to this real quick, my friend. Have you trash talked a bit? Ooooh yeah. But you are a solid contributor wherever you decide to hang out. And your trash talking is pretty amusing. I'm gonna miss havin you around dude. You really contribute a lot to the council, too, so that's going to take some adjusting, but we'll live. Whats important is your friends and even more so your mom. I hope she gets better soon man! You do whatever you need to do. I hope I see you around! Good luck!
 
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Old_Gregg said:
I want to drop a couple of sets to give people a good idea how to handle ate-speed without losing offensive pressure.
Click to expand...
For Dragonite / Lucario, I would have recommended using Aggronite on anything that can use t-wave or will-o-wisp for this. Filter allows you to tank non-stab EQ and you can freely status the e-speeder, then proceed to kill them. (Aggronite Clefable and Gourgeist-Super is what I've seen the most. Care when using status that affects you: Your opponent might switch to a magic bounce user.)

For Arcanine / Entei, I used blue orb Skarmory since you can't burn them and Moonblast does very little.

With dnite as a threat gone, maybe there's a better way to do it now. The Aggronite users are reduced to dealing with Lucario and E-Killer Arceus.
 
OrdA said:
For Dragonite / Lucario, I would have recommended using Aggronite on anything that can use t-wave or will-o-wisp for this. Filter allows you to tank non-stab EQ and you can freely status the e-speeder, then proceed to kill them. (Aggronite Clefable and Gourgeist-Super is what I've seen the most. Care when using status that affects you: Your opponent might switch to a magic bounce user.)

For Arcanine / Entei, I used blue orb Skarmory since you can't burn them and Moonblast does very little.

With dnite as a threat gone, maybe there's a better way to do it now. The Aggronite users are reduced to dealing with Lucario and E-Killer Arceus.
Click to expand...
A lot of should be checks and counters are easily dealt with when running the right sets. Arcanine and Entei can both run howl because of the switches they force. Arcanine has wild charge for Skarm and Entei can use stone miss to hit it neutrally. E-Killer is underwhelming here, at least to me. The thing about running stuff like blue orb Skarm is that while it might delay an Espeed sweep, a competent player can dispatch Skarm w/o too much effort since it lacks offensive pressure.
 
Arcanine lack a good boosting move. In all honesty I don't like espeed at all, but its managable. Also, on blue orb skarmory. Can I suggest running Venusaurite, I made it specifically to act as an -ate counter, surely loads of people are using it. It beats Arcanine, Entei and Lucario. I've been running Toxic, Whirlwind, BB and roost so I could pressure the rare bulky DD salamence. Toxic the Entei/Arcanine and in six turns the problems solved, Lucario should die to Brave bird after the CC drop. Another note, if building stall Red and Blue orb are both invaluable in the fact that they're needed to check victini and red orb to check Manahpy.

I'm not seeing a lot of discussion around the viability rankings so let me give you something to think about

Victini to A+

Manaphy to S


Victini is very prepared for in this metagame, it suffers the same problems as it does in OU, nukes something and is then forced to switch out leaving it volerable to Ate and Pursuit

Manaphy is nearly impossible for stall to prepare for, the only close counters are Red orb... Togekiss? Even red orb users are threatened by Ancient power, which easily breaks em. 140 speed and special attack is no joke versus offence either it can easily threaten offence even without a tail glow and its never killed by ate
 
Yep, 100% agree with those changes. Manaphy is ridiculous and basically needs a slot dedicated to it on stall, and is a big threat to offense with bulk to take an atespeed and to outspeed most other things (I run venusaurite calm mind spdef invested latias and even that gets haxxed by freezes like...).

Victini meanwhile hasn't been very threatening at all when I faced it so I'm not really sure why it's S, definitely support a drop.
 
Skankovich said:
Yep, 100% agree with those changes. Manaphy is ridiculous and basically needs a slot dedicated to it on stall, and is a big threat to offense with bulk to take an atespeed and to outspeed most other things (I run venusaurite calm mind spdef invested latias and even that gets haxxed by freezes like...).

Victini meanwhile hasn't been very threatening at all when I faced it so I'm not really sure why it's S, definitely support a drop.
Click to expand...
Victini is only ranked so high because of its ability to destroy opposing walls. It is incredibly powerful, and has very good typing when paired w/ desolate land. However, id agree w/ these changes, as it doesn't do a whole lot besides hitting really hard. Manaphy, on the other hand, is a serious destructive force to teams of all archetypes. It's best set, Absolite, is super fast and hits insanely hard after a boost. This thing basically singlehandedly destroys balance for the combination of its sweeping capabilities and wallbreaking power. It should be S ranked for sure.
 
Victini IS a nuke yes, but it doesn't always have to run V-create under desolate land, blue flare is less powerful, but can catch opponents off guard. I've also got to mention both the cameruptite and pidgeotenite sets, which are both less prepared for and just as good. Victini is S-rank due to the fact that it has ZERO switch ins that can reliably take a hit off of V-create, Blue Flare or a coverage move it can carry. The only thing that can switch in on it is Sablenite suicune, who can't actually hurt victini. Blue Orb Ferrothorn you say? It gets focus blast, even if it is not seen too often, as well as solarbeam/energy ball for other stuff. It can also function as a great cleaner thanks to resisting 2/3 -ates and access to TR+V-create speed drops, which actually does work against fast offense teams. It can also avoid pursuit shenanigans thanks to access to U-turn, allowing it to nuke something then run, or just pivot out of a predicted switch.

EDIT: Funbot28, thats not gonna happen due to -ate itself not being that big a problem, and the fact that that has been brought up before. Problem is is that limits the stones you can use, and not all of them are even remotely broke, and may be tossed for stones that grant STAB on their -ate. Salamenceite/gardevoirite would become worthless, even though salamencite is pretty good due to not granting STAB. This in short limits the meta and decreases the potential viability of many 'mons. For example, I've gotten rather fond of Salamencite Skarmory recently. It has a massive 190 defense, decent 90 speed, and can hit stuff decently hard with -ate return without the recoil of brave bird. If only one -ate stone is allowed, I would most likely be forced to remove skarm from my team, due to it now taking up my -ate slot.
 
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Funbot28 said:
I have a preposition: Since -ate abusers are increasingly becoming a problem, why not limit it to 1 stone that gives you an -ate ability per team? Kinda like what BH did for there -ate problem, which helped the meta for the better.
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This is actually a very plausible idea. The idea is that one alone isn't too bad (ahem Dragonite), but multiple on a team can be really restricting while teambuilding. This still allows them to be used, but not in that much capacity.
 
AllJokesAside said:
Arcanine lack a good boosting move
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At the risk of being redundant, once again..
Howl is viable on Entei and Arcanine.
Yes it's only +1 attack, but that isn't exactly anything to sneeze at considering the fact that at +1 Dnite was extremely threatening because of ate speed. Arcanine and Entei both run ate speed so they don't really need +1 speed to blow through teams once they have a proper opportunity.
 
Doctor Nadus-T said:
20150119044512!Hydreigon_XY.gif
pidgeot-mega.gif

remove altarianite (Hydreigon) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse / Flash Cannon

Abusing all the low accuracy moves Hydreigon has to offer (no blizzard ;-;) with a MONSTROUS 190 Sp. Atk and a "I can actually outspeed some things before they mega evolve now" speed of 118 comes Pidgeotite.
4th attack slot is a choice between STAB and being scared of Fairies. I guess you could slot in Dragon Pulse instead but when are you ever going to really need a weaker Dragon STAB in this format?





What's Pixispeed? Nah that can't possibly exist pls leave me and my dragon alone ;-;
no bullying allowed
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An arguably better abuser imo:

starmie.gif

Starmie @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Analytic/Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Psyshock/Rapid Spin

Thunder/Blizzard is the strongest boltbeam combo. 100% accurate. Hydro Pump is really strong STAB. It reaches 135 speed and 165 Sp. Atk. I.E., it's faster but weaker. The coverage is better imo tho. It's main STAB doesn't cause it to lose Sp. Atk. Plus it gets at least a neutral hit on everything. And if you run Psyshock you can damage Blissey somewhat.
 
Old_Gregg said:
At the risk of being redundant, once again..
Howl is viable on Entei and Arcanine.
Yes it's only +1 attack, but that isn't exactly anything to sneeze at considering the fact that at +1 Dnite was extremely threatening because of ate speed. Arcanine and Entei both run ate speed so they don't really need +1 speed to blow through teams once they have a proper opportunity.
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Sure, but it's always the easiest to set up. Not disagreeing with you but Howl is literally only used on them, in like every tier, so i count it as subpar

Also, there's a tom of abusers of Pidgeottite. Unless they directly do something better than i don't think any-one pokemon is better than the other like...

Hydreigon and Starmie aren't comparable as very little overlaps

Mew and Gengar overlaps as they do and preform similar roles

thdhted but Manaphy also has zero counters and is faster, but I guess they fit different roles
 
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Old_Gregg said:
At the risk of being redundant, once again..
Howl is viable on Entei and Arcanine.
Yes it's only +1 attack, but that isn't exactly anything to sneeze at considering the fact that at +1 Dnite was extremely threatening because of ate speed. Arcanine and Entei both run ate speed so they don't really need +1 speed to blow through teams once they have a proper opportunity.
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The difference is that they are outspeed by every other E-speeder (Though Entei IS resistant to Fairy, and I haven't run calculations on how much damage other E-speeders do to them), instead of Dragonite who you couldn't outspeed once he was at +1.
 
Lukethehedgehog said:
The difference is that they are outspeed by every other E-speeder (Though Entei IS resistant to Fairy, and I haven't run calculations on how much damage other E-speeders do to them), instead of Dragonite who you couldn't outspeed once he was at +1.
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Arcanine resists pixie speed too, has intimidate prior to mevo, and outspeeds bird speed Luc by 5 base speed... So if you run jolly max speed Arcanine with a set of extremespeed, wild charge, protect, howl/morning sun it beats Luc every time. Also has a chance vs. Skarm. This statement assumes Arcanine is also bird speed. The only reason Luc out speeds Entei is because adamant is forced with extremespeed. If Entei could run a jolly nature and keep Espeed it would out speed Luc too.
 
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AllJokesAside said:
Also, on blue orb skarmory. Can I suggest running Venusaurite, I made it specifically to act as an -ate counter, surely loads of people are using it. It beats Arcanine, Entei and Lucario. I've been running Toxic, Whirlwind, BB and roost so I could pressure the rare bulky DD salamence.
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Yeah, Venusaurite might work a bit better defensively since it gives good stats. My Skarmory set was made with Magic Bounce users in mind, so I expected Spikes / toxic / Whirlwind / Taunt / etc. to be a deadweight momentum sink. Instead, I went for a defensive SD set (I still wanna wall stuff, so offensive SD doesn't sound good). With the +50 base atk boost from blue orb, brave bird actually threatens quite a bit. Due to the low base hp (65), brave birding and then getting forced out can get you into some problems though.

AllJokesAside said:
Another note, if building stall Red and Blue orb are both invaluable in the fact that they're needed to check victini and red orb to check Manahpy.
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I agree with the statement, but have to reverse the examples. I'd suggest something more along the lines of a red orb user to switch into Victini; resisting v-create in heavy sunlight can be good enough (i.e. Hippowdon), but what I'm really scared of with my blue orb users is a burn from will-o-wisp. And that, red orb prevents due to making me a fire type.
Manaphy is something that you just have to find out what coverage it lacks. They have to skip either Ice beam or Energy ball if they want to have coverage for red orb users (Ground is preferred, imo, since it's the only weakness of red orb Groudon / Hippowdon and red orb removes most ground immunities as it replaces typing and ability).

It gets great speed, but its attacks have low base power (80-90). Basically what Manaphy needs is a setup opportunity that doesn't chunk it too much.
In my experience, the most likely way to stop a manaphy sweep is having either two Espeed users or a faster check already evolved.

Edit: Manaphy in this format lacks both Rain, Rest and Leftovers. I say stall can beat it if they guess the missing coverage, but they'll probably lose a mon or three in the process. Well, at least it's not usually 6-0'ed by it in team preview like in OU (rain rest set vs no Gothitelle stall), due to red orb being far more viable than water absorb users [forcing 3 attacks Manaphy since mono water coverage is terrible here].
 
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