Ladder Mix and Mega

[xJownage]

Realising now that Heloisk gains a boost form Whirlwind and Status. Which means I'm now fine with quick banning this thing

xJownage

How are you luring Primal don? I wouldn't say giving Primal Groudon a free switch in is something any A+ Rank mon should. And Hippowdown completely counters it with Whirlwind, Toxic and Recovery. Running ice beam makes you fodder for an entirely different list of pokemon.

I agree, it wouldn't be fair of me to judge Kyogre without using it beforehand, so I went ahead and added it to my team and ladder up to the high ladder. And I have to say I disagree with anything outside of D rank. If we could get the fact that we're both capable battlers and both our teams were atleast decent out of the way I'll continue. I played 15 battles with Kyogre, where I replaced Manaphy with Kyogre since they're both special waters.

First of all, this thing gets zero switch ins. Because of Water spouts mechanics and Kygores niche is basically water spout, being a very fast and strong move. But this set really does face competition from Pidgeotite Keldeo. Pidgeotite Keldeo isn't completely destroyed by Primal Groudon, nor is it beaten by the likes of Ferrothorn or Blissey. And it can also switch up moves making Keldeo stronger and demanding less support, it's also an offensive check to Weavile, which outspeeds Modest Kyogre.
Why would I use Kyogre over Keldeo/Manaphy/Suicune when all of these pokemon offer team support, require close to none and is far less predictable.

Kyogre is precitable and outclassed. Kyogre has one set that is not 100% outclassed, and that is Choice scarf Water spout. The unfortunante truth about this is that it means that you're honesly walled to death by Ferrthorn, Blissey and Primal Groudon. This is of course just the biggest counters, you also have Sceptilite Milotic, Sceptilite Suicune, Sablenite Suicune, Red orb Roserade, Red orb Raikou and Red orb Hippowdown. And that's just the counters, never mind the thousands of checks.

Easily exploitable. Kyogres lack of coverage renders it useless against common red orb users. Which means you can't even 2HKO Primal Groudon. So even if you revenge kill something like Gengar, which is why you classified is at A. But that also means Primal Groudon, probably the single best pokemon in the tier at the moment, can set up a swords dance/rock polish which RUINS offensive teams. Literally the only playstyle that justifies Kyogre. How is that something that's A rank? Yeah, I kill Gengar but now I'm forced out by Primal Groudon or I give Ferrothorn a free layer of spikes/stealth rock. When instead I could use Keldeo, which forces somebody to attack you because it's far less exploitable.

In practise this thing is even worse. I used this a lot, and it was honestly just a liability. Even though it got a kill every now and then it doesn't justifie anything, I can use any pokemon with the support of five others and it can be effective. Donphan is blacklisted in OU yet Pokeaim used it in his in video.

That's basically the jist of it, I though you just fucked up the sprite when it was in A rank. This thing really shouldn't be ranked higher than D. Tell me what it gains.

Zygarde should be S rank, the reason Lucario wasn't S in the beginning was because of it facing competition from Dnite, and also being fodder for it.

The council aren't really thinking of re-evaluating Beedrilite. We're currently discussing Manaphy. All the mons who can use Beedrilite become broken anyways, so why would we go out of our way to add more wallbreakers?

Suicune can be paired with a pdon lure to beat a large number of threats, as can ogre. You say its bad, but I don't know how you used it. My experience is that it is pretty damn good, but I will probably be moving it down. The meta is getting more and more hyper offensive and i'm seeing a lot less setupdon, however.

Regardless, Lucario wasn't originally in S the last time we did the viability rankings, which was long after the Dnite ban. We only moved it to say that it was better than most of the other espeeders, and that was it. We hesitated to put lucario in S at the beginning of the lucario suspect, and suggesting that Zygarde is better than Lucario was is just stupid. Quite frankly, Zygarde doesn't fit with manaphy/pdon in terms of its use/utility and as a result I don't feel comfortable putting it in S.

Manaphy isn't that broken, as its lack of coverage makes it manageable for all playstyles. I won't speak further about this atm, although I wouldn't be too heavily opposed to a suspect (for further discussion, mind you).

I will update the viability rankings either later this afternoon or tomorrow.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Suicune can be paired with a pdon lure to beat a large number of threats, as can ogre. You say its bad, but I don't know how you used it. My experience is that it is pretty damn good, but I will probably be moving it down. The meta is getting more and more hyper offensive and i'm seeing a lot less setupdon, however.

Regardless, Lucario wasn't originally in S the last time we did the viability rankings, which was long after the Dnite ban. We only moved it to say that it was better than most of the other espeeders, and that was it. We hesitated to put lucario in S at the beginning of the lucario suspect, and suggesting that Zygarde is better than Lucario was is just stupid. Quite frankly, Zygarde doesn't fit with manaphy/pdon in terms of its use/utility and as a result I don't feel comfortable putting it in S.

Manaphy isn't that broken, as its lack of coverage makes it manageable for all playstyles. I won't speak further about this atm, although I wouldn't be too heavily opposed to a suspect (for further discussion, mind you).

I will update the viability rankings either later this afternoon or tomorrow.

That's not really a lure, you send out suicune and my best play is to send in Primal Groudon, and from there I'm going to go for preciples blades which 252/4 Pdon takes 80-90% from. How are you luring it? A stall team with Blue orb Skarmory and Red orb Hippwdown effectively shuts down that core. You're not luring a red orb user.

I used Kyogre as a revenge killer and late-game cleaner, it failed at the ladder and there are better revenge killers in the tier, and you didn't even reply to my srguments you just said TL;DR its good, ur using it wrong. All of my points stand, this thing shouldn't even be C.

Zygarde is A+, I agree.

Manaphys best set is Ice beam, Scald and HP ground. This thing is great versus offence provided you have something to take on atleast one -ate abuser.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Suicune can be paired with a pdon lure to beat a large number of threats, as can ogre. You say its bad, but I don't know how you used it. My experience is that it is pretty damn good, but I will probably be moving it down. The meta is getting more and more hyper offensive and i'm seeing a lot less setupdon, however.

Regardless, Lucario wasn't originally in S the last time we did the viability rankings, which was long after the Dnite ban. We only moved it to say that it was better than most of the other espeeders, and that was it. We hesitated to put lucario in S at the beginning of the lucario suspect, and suggesting that Zygarde is better than Lucario was is just stupid. Quite frankly, Zygarde doesn't fit with manaphy/pdon in terms of its use/utility and as a result I don't feel comfortable putting it in S.

Manaphy isn't that broken, as its lack of coverage makes it manageable for all playstyles. I won't speak further about this atm, although I wouldn't be too heavily opposed to a suspect (for further discussion, mind you).

I will update the viability rankings either later this afternoon or tomorrow.

I agree overall, except for ogre. I gotta go w/ AllJokesAside on this one. I will say, suicune is a force tho. It can easily 6-0 opposing teams as soon as opposing red orb mons are gone. It's kinda like cresselia, the only difference being it actually has a reliable check (/counter). Once red orb stuff is gone, it's really destructive. The same could be said for ogre, I guess, but Suicune is harder to shut down than ogre. Not to mention, 90 Spe is pretty poor for a scarfer in MnM, or even ubers at this point, as Megamence (something I can see gaining a lot of viability) sits at a blazing 120, and then boosts it past that to ridiculous levels. Revenge killing is hard for anything in this meta, let alone something as slow as ogre. Id say Pogre def deserves an A, but not base.

 

[Ghoul King]

So something I've been enjoying for a couple of days: Ampharosite Heatran. I originally implemented it because I wanted a Pokemon with Taunt+Stealth Rock to get Mold Breaker on because I was tired of Sablenite Blissey, but if that was all I cared about I could've gone with Infernape or something. There's a decent selection of 'mons available with both of those. But Heatran has four things: access to Dragon Pulse as a STAB, a nifty resultant typing (Which, mind, again Infernape could pull off, albeit with less bulk), the advantages of its pre-Mega Evolution form being pretty useful in a pinch, and Magma Storm.

Why do I care about Magma Storm? Because it traps Sablenite Blissey and rips off 1/8th of its health each turn, for 4-5 turns. A lot of Blissey will switch in on Heatran, expecting to wall it effortlessly, with the Sablenite ones fearing no Taunt and expecting to bounce back your Rocks to boot, so I hit them with Magma Storm, Taunt them so they can't heal, and maybe put up Stealth Rock if they've already gotten up a Wish and I'm expecting a Protect.

Originally I was honestly expecting it to be a kind of one-dimensional anti-Sablenite Blissey 'mon, which I was OK with because I kept producing a team that couldn't do a lot to Sablenite Blissey but was otherwise fairly reliable, but I've found that it's a lot better than even that: nobody uses Ground moves on it until after they've seen it Mega Evolve, clearly expecting a Lati Mega Stone, nobody uses Dragon moves on it because Steel type, nobody uses Rock moves, and Fighting moves have less payoff than they're expecting. So it tends to last a while against things my opponent thought would kill it or at least force it out, and in the meanwhile it gets up hazards, dishes out decent damage, and if they were foolish enough to switch in Blissey, too bad, it's gone.

It's in generally a nifty stallbreaker, without actually being useless against more offensive teams.

I don't understand this statement. How is diversity ever a bad thing? And...unbanning Ubers? Isn't this an Ubers OM...?

In this case, granting Ubers access to Mega Stones. Like, one might argue that Shaymin-Sky is only Ubers because of Serene Grace, which no Mega Stone grants, and that it's otherwise OU-tier, and therefore it "should" be allowed Mega Stones.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

So something I've been enjoying for a couple of days: Ampharosite Heatran. I originally implemented it because I wanted a Pokemon with Taunt+Stealth Rock to get Mold Breaker on because I was tired of Sablenite Blissey, but if that was all I cared about I could've gone with Infernape or something. There's a decent selection of 'mons available with both of those. But Heatran has four things: access to Dragon Pulse as a STAB, a nifty resultant typing (Which, mind, again Infernape could pull off, albeit with less bulk), the advantages of its pre-Mega Evolution form being pretty useful in a pinch, and Magma Storm.

Why do I care about Magma Storm? Because it traps Sablenite Blissey and rips off 1/8th of its health each turn, for 4-5 turns. A lot of Blissey will switch in on Heatran, expecting to wall it effortlessly, with the Sablenite ones fearing no Taunt and expecting to bounce back your Rocks to boot, so I hit them with Magma Storm, Taunt them so they can't heal, and maybe put up Stealth Rock if they've already gotten up a Wish and I'm expecting a Protect.

Originally I was honestly expecting it to be a kind of one-dimensional anti-Sablenite Blissey 'mon, which I was OK with because I kept producing a team that couldn't do a lot to Sablenite Blissey but was otherwise fairly reliable, but I've found that it's a lot better than even that: nobody uses Ground moves on it until after they've seen it Mega Evolve, clearly expecting a Lati Mega Stone, nobody uses Dragon moves on it because Steel type, nobody uses Rock moves, and Fighting moves have less payoff than they're expecting. So it tends to last a while against things my opponent thought would kill it or at least force it out, and in the meanwhile it gets up hazards, dishes out decent damage, and if they were foolish enough to switch in Blissey, too bad, it's gone.

It's in generally a nifty stallbreaker, without actually being useless against more offensive teams.

I actually really like this set; it's got a great offensive typing (actually, it's not bad defensively, either), sweet stallbreaking potential, awesome power, enough speed to beat most stallmons, and ampharosite isn't really a super sought-out stone. I can think of very little drawback to it, especially with levitran as popular as it is. Also, it can fairly reliably beat levitran itself too, which other tran sets can't really do. Seriously, I am really having trouble thinking of any drawback to it. I mean, I guess you could argue that it uses your only heatran, sort of, but that's really not an issue; you probably wouldn't want to use multiple heatran anyways. Yeah, that's a super sweet set.

 

[NoivernX70]

There are two things I would like to share.
First off, Pidgeotite Charizard w/ Inferno is a problem, just as much as ZapCannon and DynamicPunch.

Second off, I would like to share a great set:
3op5u (Conkeldurr) @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD

This gives Conk some bulk, but also a sh*tload of attack. About 550+ when mega'd.
220 base. That's a bit overpowered.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Victini can run virtually the same set, but it also has Thunder and STAB Psyshock. True it's a bit weaker than Charizard, but it's less weak to Stealth Rock.

Yes that Conkeldurr will hit like a freight train, but it's still incredibly slow and has no recovery outside of Drain Punch. I prefer the Loppunite on Conkeldurr, as while it is a bit weaker let's face it 200 base attack is hardly what you'd call weak. It also gets a much needed Speed boost, and a much more useful ability. The Metagrossite also works well.

Here are some more sets I've tried.

Pangoro @ Metagrossite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Poison Jab

134 base Attack might not sound that much, but with Tough Claws it really hits hard. Drain Punch and Crunch get STAB, Poison Jab OHKOes most Fairies. EVs let you outrun max speed Modest Heatran, but you could run more Speed and/or bulk depending on what your team needs. The Metagrossite was chosen to give a much needed Speed boost, as well as a nice bulk boost.

Magnezone @ Latiasite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt

People talk about Levitate Heatran, so I decided to try Levitate Magnezone and was surprised to see how good it really was. It can switch into a lot of attacks, and either pivot out with a slow Volt Switch or just attack. Volt Switch is the main attack. Flash Cannon gets STAB; Hidden Power Ice forms a pseudo BoltBeam. Thunderbolt is your most powerful STAB. Steel/Electric with Levitate is really good defensive typing, with 2 immunities and 11 resistances. If it's already mega'd, it counters all Zygrade sets and can also beat Aerilate Landorus-T (again needs to have mega'd before).

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Since the month is winding down, and this is the first time in a while I really enjoyed and played a OM, I just would like to drop my team by.

Hide

Archeops @ Pinsirite
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Bulldoze
- Stone Edge

Terrakion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Manaphy @ Sceptilite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

Ferrothorn @ Blue Orb
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Only gripe with this was that atespeed at times felt very limiting. If you were weak to fairy or flying or maybe ice, you'd have a really bad time. As a whole though, this OM was fun and interesting. Well done, Ghoul King!

 

[Ghoul King]

I actually really like this set; it's got a great offensive typing (actually, it's not bad defensively, either), sweet stallbreaking potential, awesome power, enough speed to beat most stallmons, and ampharosite isn't really a super sought-out stone. I can think of very little drawback to it, especially with levitran as popular as it is. Also, it can fairly reliably beat levitran itself too, which other tran sets can't really do. Seriously, I am really having trouble thinking of any drawback to it. I mean, I guess you could argue that it uses your only heatran, sort of, but that's really not an issue; you probably wouldn't want to use multiple heatran anyways. Yeah, that's a super sweet set.

I must add the caveat that Blissey can Thunder Wave you, so don't let it do that unless you can cure it, because then it can break out of the Taunting.

Main drawback is that Magma Storm has 75% Accuracy and 8 PP, honestly. (In particular, missing with Magma Storm gives them the chance to cotton on to my dastardly plan) Though to be fair, I'm coming from the perspective of this being the first time I've run Heatran in MnM. Somehow I've never had any motive to run some other Heatran build... dunno why.

 

[OrdA]

Since the month is winding down, and this is the first time in a while I really enjoyed and played a OM, I just would like to drop my team by.

Hide

Archeops @ Pinsirite
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Bulldoze
- Stone Edge

Terrakion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Manaphy @ Sceptilite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

Ferrothorn @ Blue Orb
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Consider HP Ground > Energy ball on Manaphy to ohko primal groudon and other red orb users at +3.
If you can include another electric immunity, I recommend Absolite over Sceptilite. A good Pidgeotite-Zap cannon check is something really useful, though.

I really don't like stuff like that ferro or a spikes skarm set in this meta; they just seem like dead weight as soon as your opp has a defensive magic bounce user with recovery.

Here's mine:

{will-o-wisp immunity, electric + water immunity. A lot of fire types can break blue orb users with will-o-wisp, so this is actually a good switch in to some red orb users.}
(I calc'ed, and Hippo can wall more than rest talk pDon. Since this needs to avoid 2hkos for slack off, and rest talk needs to avoid 3hkos)
Hippowdon @ Red Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Slack Off

Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Tail Glow
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
- Scald

{high base powered dual stabs with good coverage is unique to keldeo, actually.}
(maybe Lucarionite and lower base power moves would be better actually. Didn't calc it.)
Keldeo @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast

{red orb switch in + stall breaker. Like I mentioned, defensive skarm is garbage in this format imo.}
(speed to outspeed blissey)
Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Roost

{Counter to prankster spore Breloom, Baton Pass, that Ferro or Gengar above}
(def to always live +0 pinsirite dnite ESpeed. Prolly could get a better speed tier now that it's banned.)
Volcarona @ Sablenite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost

{Atespeed resist}
Clefable @ Aggronite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

Only gripe with this was that atespeed at times felt very limiting. If you were weak to fairy or flying or maybe ice, you'd have a really bad time. As a whole though, this OM was fun and interesting. Well done, Ghoul King!

Ah, will we be able to play this on the main server after this month; or only on the other one? (Never looked at an OM this closely before.)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Consider HP Ground > Energy ball on Manaphy to ohko primal groudon and other red orb users at +3.
If you can include another electric immunity, I recommend Absolite over Sceptilite. A good Pidgeotite-Zap cannon check is something really useful, though.

I really don't like stuff like that ferro or a spikes skarm set in this meta; they just seem like dead weight as soon as your opp has a defensive magic bounce user with recovery.

Here's mine:



Ah, will we be able to play this on the main server after this month; or only on the other one? (Never looked at an OM this closely before.)

Manaphy really doens't need to run protect, getting of the mega evolution is pretty easy and the coverage is really important, I'd slash in ice beam.

Why are you running HP ground on Keldeo?

252 SpA Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 291-343 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ground vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 194-230 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You should slash HP electric, bug or flying.

That skarmory is going to be pretty useless against the plethora of special attackers like Manaphy and Gengar, Primal Groudon easily switches in.

That volcarona is meh at best, you set up on nothing besides Blissey. manaphy, Zygarde, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Entei all beat you.

That slowbro set isn't walling any of the -ate abusers as their other stab is ground and fire

 

[1nvalid]

My contribution to the recent Heliolisk debate: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/heliolisk-and-friends-1-ladder-mix-mega-1665.3545471/
If it's not being considered for suspect, that is fine. I think the team should prove heliolisk deserves a rank up. Also asking for Red Orb to be listed in Togekiss' options, and Gyaradosite Nidoqueen to be included in C rank.

: C+ to A-
Helioptile walls a significant portion of the metagame (taken from the desc of A), it doesn't wreck teams without support, but it does in fact wall a significant portion of the metagame, and hard checks a massive chunk of the metagame. If your team is junk in general, slapping Heliolisk onto it will improve it dramatically.

: Unranked to C (Gyaradosite)
I was going to say D, but I looked at the list of things in C, and Nidoqueen is just so much better than some of them. Nidoqueen becomes a Poison/Dark Type, with access to Mold Breaker Toxic spikes, Roar, and Stealth Rock. It is a support Pokemon with great survivability.
Stats: HP: 90 / Atk: 122 / Def: 117 / SpA: 85 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 76

: Togekiss (Gardevoirite, Aggronite, Red Orb)
Red Orb Togekiss takes advantage of new defense and offense, very good defensive typing including immunity to water moves. Its 170 special attack is no joke, Flamethrower and Solar Beam/Grass Knot do heavy damage to a lot of the things you'd bring it in to wall, Weavile, Keldeo, Heatran etc. It has a very safe Morning Sun thanks to Red Orb. In addition to the great support movepool that makes all its other sets so good.
Stats: HP: 85 / Atk: 80 / Def: 115 / SpA: 170 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 80

 

[OrdA]

Manaphy really doens't need to run protect, getting of the mega evolution is pretty easy and the coverage is really important, I'd slash in ice beam.

Yeah, ice beam is good for Latis. I used to run it, but found I never actually used anything besides Scald and HP ground. Will change if I get walled at any point, rn I just find myself missing an evolved check to some things so I switched to protect.

Why are you running HP ground on Keldeo?

252 SpA Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 291-343 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ground vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 194-230 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hmm, you have a point. I had this notion that water type sweepers get a lot from it because all people run for them are red orb users, and I never questioned it for Keldeo. Red orb users would have to resist fighting as well, so I can't come up with one that I need it for.
Maybe I'll actually run protect on Keldeo rather than Manaphy, or Calm Mind to break Blissey / sweep. Or I actually run a coverage move for the rare actual Keldeo counters (haven't seen Celebi / Slowbro / etc a lot).

That skarmory is going to be pretty useless against the plethora of special attackers like Manaphy and Gengar, Primal Groudon easily switches in.

Yeah, it needs to switch into pDon rather than the other way around. You'd want to use skarm as your counter in that matchup.
Edit: the sdef is for Altarianite users, like Noivern.

That volcarona is meh at best, you set up on nothing besides Blissey. manaphy, Zygarde, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Entei all beat you

I'd have to wear them down. That's actually a defensive set, walling a lot of threats until it can set up and sweep, but I agree that its coverage is sub-par since it doesn't really hit fire types with anything besides stealth rocks.

That clefable set isn't walling any of the -ate abusers as their other stab is ground and fire

Actually it takes non-Stab EQ pretty easily because of filter. It's bad against Zygarde though. (That wasn't a common threat two weeks ago when I made it, since Dnite wasn't banned and I was more concerned about that one.)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

My contribution to the recent Heliolisk debate: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/heliolisk-and-friends-1-ladder-mix-mega-1665.3545471/
If it's not being considered for suspect, that is fine. I think the team should prove heliolisk deserves a rank up. Also asking for Red Orb to be listed in Togekiss' options, and Gyaradosite Nidoqueen to be included in C rank.

: C+ to A-
Helioptile walls a significant portion of the metagame (taken from the desc of A), it doesn't wreck teams without support, but it does in fact wall a significant portion of the metagame, and hard checks a massive chunk of the metagame. If your team is junk in general, slapping Heliolisk onto it will improve it dramatically.

: Unranked to C (Gyaradosite)
I was going to say D, but I looked at the list of things in C, and Nidoqueen is just so much better than some of them. Nidoqueen becomes a Poison/Dark Type, with access to Mold Breaker Toxic spikes, Roar, and Stealth Rock. It is a support Pokemon with great survivability.
Stats: HP: 90 / Atk: 122 / Def: 117 / SpA: 85 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 76

: Togekiss (Gardevoirite, Aggronite, Red Orb)
Red Orb Togekiss takes advantage of new defense and offense, very good defensive typing including immunity to water moves. Its 170 special attack is no joke, Flamethrower and Solar Beam/Grass Knot do heavy damage to a lot of the things you'd bring it in to wall, Weavile, Keldeo, Heatran etc. It has a very safe Morning Sun thanks to Red Orb. In addition to the great support movepool that makes all its other sets so good.
Stats: HP: 85 / Atk: 80 / Def: 115 / SpA: 170 / SpD: 115 / Spe: 80

Sorry for the late message on the helioisk debate, we did vote on quickbanning it. The votes went a bit back a forward, but we settled on 3-1 on dnb with one abstine. Offense either outspeeds or sets up on while stall literally couldn't care less, Helioisk is to weak and lacks coverage to actually be threatening to stall

 

[xJownage]

Second consecutive post saying sorry, I have been unable and am still unable to update the viability rankings at this time. Real life is intervening atm, so I've been really unable to play that much or post. This probably looks like shit because i'm on mobile too.

 

[Ghoul King]

Ah, will we be able to play this on the main server after this month; or only on the other one? (Never looked at an OM this closely before.)

That's up to staff, but the usual thing is ceasing to be available on main afterward and staff have given no evidence to the contrary that I'm aware.

 

[Throbulator36]

That's up to staff, but the usual thing is ceasing to be available on main afterward and staff have given no evidence to the contrary that I'm aware.

they usually stay on as challenge options.

 

[M'joe'ra]

Alright guys I know the meta is winding down but you all need to know about how cash this set is.

Actual cash (Mew) @ Ampharosite
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Hate stall, levitran, blissey and or p-don? Well this mew set is just for you! With mew holding Ampharosite it gains a shweet +20 atk, +20 def, +50 s.atk, +20 s.def along with dragon typing and mold breaker all for the cost of 10 speed. It may seem crazy for your only attacking move to be a non stab ground type move but hear me out before your write me off as crazy. Earth power + mold breaker allows you to absolutely murder levitran who is annoying to deal with otherwise. It also allows you to destory p-don and a bunch of other ate users on the switchin, along with the chance for a s.def drop.

I swear this mew is cash

Vs p-don
0 SpA Mold Breaker Mew Earth Power vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 202-238 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mew: 178-211 (44 - 52.2%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO

Vs latiasite heatran
0 SpA Mold Breaker Mew Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 224-268 (58 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 57-67 (14.1 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO
0 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- 23.2% chance to 4HKO
Mew also outspeeds so it can also taunt it thus preventing a toxic and or rocks.

Taunt and toxic are the standard stall breaking moves that you will be using most of the time with mew, those moves combined with mold breaker allow mew to stop most sablenite users in their tracks and wear them down or kill them with toxic. The last move of the set is Soft-Boiled for standard recovery.

Tl:Dr Mew is cash, bring it if you want to beat stall no one will see this set coming.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Alright guys I know the meta is winding down but you all need to know about how cash this set is.

Actual cash (Mew) @ Ampharosite
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Hate stall, levitran, blissey and or p-don? Well this mew set is just for you! With mew holding Ampharosite it gains a shweet +20 atk, +20 def, +50 s.atk, +20 s.def along with dragon typing and mold breaker all for the cost of 10 speed. It may seem crazy for your only attacking move to be a non stab ground type move but hear me out before your write me off as crazy. Earth power + mold breaker allows you to absolutely murder levitran who is annoying to deal with otherwise. It also allows you to destory p-don and a bunch of other ate users on the switchin, along with the chance for a s.def drop.

I swear this mew is cash

Vs p-don
0 SpA Mold Breaker Mew Earth Power vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 202-238 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mew: 178-211 (44 - 52.2%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO

Vs latiasite heatran
0 SpA Mold Breaker Mew Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 224-268 (58 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 57-67 (14.1 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO
0 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mew: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- 23.2% chance to 4HKO
Mew also outspeeds so it can also taunt it thus preventing a toxic and or rocks.

Taunt and toxic are the standard stall breaking moves that you will be using most of the time with mew, those moves combined with mold breaker allow mew to stop most sablenite users in their tracks and wear them down or kill them with toxic. The last move of the set is Soft-Boiled for standard recovery.

Tl:Dr Mew is cash, bring it if you want to beat stall no one will see this set coming.

I really like that specific set, but I would suggest putting some more into def; the ability to survive against Pdon every time would be really useful and not that difficult. Honestly, it's not exactly super creative, but I just never realized how useful it is I guess.

 

[thesecondbest]

Yeah the EVs make no sense. Always have a positive nature in the higher of the two stats. You hit 304 def and 339 spdef with your spread, but 124 def and 132+ spdef gives you 307 defense. Adding a tad more in defense would avoid the 2HKO and get as much special bulk as possible. Always optimize your spreads!

 

[M'joe'ra]

Yeah the EVs make no sense. Always have a positive nature in the higher of the two stats. You hit 304 def and 339 spdef with your spread, but 124 def and 132+ spdef gives you 307 defense. Adding a tad more in defense would avoid the 2HKO and get as much special bulk as possible. Always optimize your spreads!

Shoot, I forgot that I had optimized this specifically for my team, fixed within seconds of this post!

 

[tegrof19]

Is there a reason to use gyaradosite? Psy/dark looks like a much better typing than psy/dragon (just flees from uturns and similar bug moves... actually gives a use for bp on the set) and while losing 40 base in SpA hurts a bit, you lose no speed (not sure how much this matters) and gain a bit more bulk on both sides.

also never use cash to describe something that's actually good

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Is there a reason to use gyaradosite? Psy/dark looks like a much better typing than psy/dragon (just flees from uturns and similar bug moves... actually gives a use for bp on the set) and while losing 40 base in SpA hurts a bit, you lose no speed (not sure how much this matters) and gain a bit more bulk on both sides.

No. No, no, and no. U-turn is everywhere bro. And psychic/dragon isn't bad at all, not to mention, it beats several common threats, most notably keldeo. Ampharosite lets it beat those specific threats, which it wouldn't otherwise.

also never use cash to describe something that's actually good

Always use cash to describe something good. Always.

 

[canno]

Psychic / Dragon also gives you key resists to things such as Water, Fighting, Fire, and Electric. It's a pretty cash typing, and Ampharosite Mew is a cash set.

 

[TheMasterOP]

Jolteon unranked ------> D Jolteon jolteon with absolite is one of the biggest threats in this metagame because having much faster and can hit very hard by the special hand this makes it even though this is outweighed by the Raikou macnetite this also has the ability magic Bounce which back any status

STATS: 65/85/60/150*/95/170*