M&M Mix and Mega

Imw0rstadP0keM0n said:
Landorus Red Orb, while very good, hits less hard and is slower than Enamorus. Water immunity on a fire ground may be awesome, but ground weakness still ensures that many, many top tier threats can simply 2hko or 1hko it anyways.
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While it's definitely the case, it was already notable before Enamorus was banned that Landorus was actually pretty crazy with STABs U-turn Nasty Plot since you could remove nearly every Enamorus × Jolteon answer barring Gastrodon, and even that needs to be high HP to win the 1v1 - something very hard to achieve with U-turn and hazards. As for threatening it with an OHKO, its very unlikely as it has better bulk than Enamorus had while also having similar weaknesses and no Stealth Rock weakness.
 
enamorus was used over lando in part bc it could outspeed lando and hit it first w its own earth power. while enam is slightly faster and has slightly better offensive dual stab, landos bulk and type also gives it an advantage against most orbers asides from enamorus bc of stab earth power and a type which often resists the best stab moves of opposing orbers
 
posted in another thread but gonna do it here longer

can the mnm council ban red orb, nobody wants to deal with np thundurus and np lando. this stone has been cancer for a decade now in every generation

building has became way harder with those 2 being a genuine threat, especially with their diverse movepools and better bulk than enam + jolteon. idk why we are so bent on saving red orb. it was only barely healthy in usum because of the number of broken mons we had on our hand which kinda neutralized it.

this stone will continue to make this meta mu based af even post dlc, its just a question of when u guys will finally delete it from the meta
 
DLC 2 is now live! Of the new pokemon, we will be restricting Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Lunala, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Regigigas, Reshiram, and Zekrom to start out with, but we'll be keeping a close eye on the metagame to do any needed quickbans.

Urshifu-rapid-strike and Eternatus will also be making a return to the metagame, being unrestricted and unbanned, respectively. We have also elected not to start out restricting Solgaleo, Lugia, Raikou, or any of the new releases, but some of them may turn out to be unbalanced when allowed to mega evolve, so please bear with us for a bit as we get our bearings straight.
 
small post, 2 mons rly needa be in the spotlight for their immidiate viability, also raikus back im takin bets now how many days till raikus yeeted

Gouging Fire @ Pinsirite/Altarianite/Charizardite X
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge/Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun
Type fire/dragon Stats: Hp 105 Atk 115 Def 121 Spa no Spdf 93 Spe 91
i predict dis boy gunna be restricted gahdam

Iron Boulder @ Metagrossite/Lopunite/Pinsirite/Altarianite
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave 95 BP MAKES CONTACT
- Zen Headbutt/eq/double edge
- Close Combat
Type psych/rock Stats: Hp 90 Atk 120 Def 80 Spa no Spdf 108 Spe 124
say hello to a fresh new tough claws/lopunite spammer

some moveset stuff: deox has teleport but lost toxic, terrakion has upper hand, gen 2 birbs dont have defog or roost but still have recover, entei no longer has howl and is rendered unviable effective immediately, lucario as an espeeder has upper hand so might be worth retesting
 
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Haven't had much time to play yet, but some returning mons look promising in my opinion, so I'm gonna go though some that I think might be good or at least will see some play (I'm not a qualified source but trust me ok)

:sm/solgaleo:
Solgaleo @ Venusaurite / Sablenite / Lati@site / Like anything works
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Future Sight / Psychic Fangs
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun
- Teleport

Solgaleo in my opinion feels really good, you're able to check a plethora of stuff like -ate espeeders (can even optimize with stones to have better MU), Eternatus who's returning, Deoxys-Speed not running Shadow Ball, TC Fighting-types like Zapdos-Galar and Urshifu-R and probably more that I'm missing. Idk what offensive sets are good, but im assuming aswell that they're gonna be as good. This set is probably not the best, but there's gonna be a lot of good sets and I'm excited to see this mon. Not sure if it's gonna get restricted tho, but I'll enjoy it for now.


:sm/raikou:
Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory / Volt Switch / Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Woo we definetly needed another Red Orb abuser that's even faster than Thundurus! This is probably bonkers in practice, and I'm hoping as a result we can finally ban Red orb instead of banning this, since it's probably meh otherwise. It does lack NP compared to Thundurus, but it's still gonna be unbearable with CM i feel.

:sm/deoxys-defense:
Deoxys-Defense @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Spikes
- Recover
- Teleport

(Ignore the set im still not sure what I want) A Hazard-setter + Slow pivot with good bulk will surely be decent at least right? Anyways you could probably try a more defensive approach but I expect the Speed-Forme to be much more used, but this could still be a niche option.


:sm/deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed @ Cameruptite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot

This also looks really fuckin' strong, since it's got enough bulk to not instantly melt to -ate Espeed while also outspeeding everything barring Eleki. Something like this is gonna be really hard to check defensively, since NP + SF shreds through most Arceus-formes and Glowking, as well as most other things. It does require setup if u wanna get OHKOes, but it's definetly gonna be good. You could probably invest more in bulk aswell to live +1 Espeed from Dnite, but i'm not an expert at optimising EVs so this will do for me.

Deoxys-Speed @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Teleport

More Hyper-Offense leads as well, both screens and hazards seems good. I don't think it's entirely outclassed by Screens Eleki thanks to Taunt + Teleport, but HO definetly got something good here imo.

:ss/eternatus:
Eternatus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower / Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Recover

It's back, and it looks really good from what I can tell. Major nuisance to switch into, great defensive typing to not get blown up, and can annoy Glowking teams with Toxic Spikes if Glowking's their best switch-in. I haven't played with this much when it was legal earlier, but It's definetly gonna be good.
 
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the new terra turtle works weird w the mnm terra ban and idk if its on purpose or not. its ability still transforms it to its stat buffed form and it appears terrad but it doesnt get any terra effects asides from that, also if it holds a mega stone and megas it doesnt revert to its original untransformed version and instead its terastal form is treated as its original form for the total stats of its mega. not that im complaining that the standard is being broken for the sake of letting the new mon exist in mnm but if this was intentional then why is the standard being broken now for 1 mon? is this a mistake or simply testing what would happen if fully transformed mons were allowed to mega wo stat penalty?
#freepalafin
 
dilllllllllllon said:
the new terra turtle works weird w the mnm terra ban and idk if its on purpose or not. its ability still transforms it to its stat buffed form and it appears terrad but it doesnt get any terra effects asides from that, also if it holds a mega stone and megas it doesnt revert to its original untransformed version and instead its terastal form is treated as its original form for the total stats of its mega. not that im complaining that the standard is being broken for the sake of letting the new mon exist in mnm but if this was intentional then why is the standard being broken now for 1 mon? is this a mistake or simply testing what would happen if fully transformed mons were allowed to mega wo stat penalty?
#freepalafin
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It's probably just the unfinished nature of terapagos rn, but I think the thing handling the reverting to base form treats tera shift as transfroming into a different pokemon, not a different form. I doubt it's intentional.
 
laddered a bit so it's post time!
NEW
:solgaleo:
big addition. solgaleo is arguably the best 'mon in the tier rn. meta / aero sets are aight, but the ones u should be wary of are the CM ones. it can run CM(+Agility) with Cameruptite and be an offensive beast, or run more defensive sets in latiasite / venusaurite. lati helps it vs the arceus-formes while venu is better against etern / entei or harc / gouging fire
:lugia:
mega lugia lol. sablenite lugia has a fuckton of bulk, and CM sets are most likely going to be overbearing. heck it can even run rusted shield now that i think about it. it just never dies. it does have one problem though, being 4mss. it wants cm / roost / psyshock for sure, and wants to fit shadow ball (lunala / solg) / thunder(bolt) (darks / waters) / probably some other move too.
:raikou:
and just when we ban jolteon, raikou drops lol. raikou is again another very amazing mon, packing voltswitch+weatherball combo. we do have mons like eternatus to deal with it now i suppose.
:lunala:
the check to everything is here too! lunala is a very good addition and would help keep stuff like solg / lugia / etern at bay. it can also be a threatening cleaner w meteor beam, so watch out.
:deoxys-speed: :deoxys-defense:
do not run gyaradosite on deo-s. run hearthflame mask. mask helps it vs espeeders, most notably, eleki. if you are running dual hazards on it, that is. np cameruptite deo-s is something i havent gotten around testing v much, but it's likely very good (though it gets cooked by espeed)
1702993259985.png

the only stone worth running on gouging fire is, imo, pinsirite. it has a pretty good typing (resistant to pixispeed) and strong moves, alongwith ddance. it does have its issues tho like little longetivity (due to fblitz and dedge being recoil moves)
Iron Boulder / Iron Crown / Raging Bolt are imo... fraud. pins boulder is aight, but i find iron crown not worth it. sure sciz tachyon hits hard and all but thats about it, and in a meta with solg / fires / lun... raging bolt is outclassed by raikou, but it can be an interesting pick with smth like altarianite cuz it has a ton of spa and hp.
thoughts:
  • :urshifu-rapid-strike: :raikou: urshifu-rs makes a return. and what was skewda+jolt in the past meta... is now shifu+raikou. both are extremely good at pressuring fat water+etern builds and form an amazing voltturn core.
  • bulky waters (toxapex / slowbro / milotic) paired with something like venu hippo / bulky black sludge etern seems to be a good defensive backbone rn. it is good into shifu/gfire/raikou etc, and even mons like Dragonite which u find often thanks to the introduction of gouging fire, raikou, etc.
  • :eternatus: etern makes a return (hey it rhymed). it's not that oppressive rn, thanks to the existence of solg, lugia, offense, etc. but it still does etern things.
  • Extreme Speed: Eleki, Dragonite, Entei / Harcanine... it's near mandatory to have at least one of these on any team ngl. this is mnm after all...
  • :samurott-hisui: i have never been a hamurott fan but it honestly seems great in this meta. we have a million psychics, and hamu does well against those thanks to sd+cedge+sucker, and spikes are valuable. it's good into deo hazard stack stuff people have been using.
  • this meta feels like a weird mix of SS and SM.
i'll post more thoughts (probably) once ive played more games. here is a team i have been enjoying. happy holidays everyone (even if youre not on ur holidays >:))!
 
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i had a fun idea for a psychic terrain team but im not sure which mons and pivots to best compliment the team. its based on the synergy between healing wish indeedee and the angry masochistic monke, it also turns deoxis speed into a legit sweeping threat. since terrains arent a thing in mnm rn a psych terrain team would easily be able to maintain terrain supremacy, its terrain is effectively uncontested (until the tapus come out anyway).

feel free to yoink the team idea, i welcome more ideas and experiments, and ive also been eager for a way to try to make deoxis-s broken again

Yes (Indeedee-F) (F) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charm
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Healing Wish

ded angre monke (Annihilape) @ Diancite
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch/Close Combat
- U-turn

(Edited->)Thinmint Deoxys (Deoxys-Speed) @ Lucarionite/Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Timid/Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Expanding Force
- Thunderbolt/Terra Blast
- Shado Ball
dos is like eleki with coverage and a boosting move in exchange for worse weaknesses and no utility. it has a unique usecase being able to viably run slow stones and still be a fast sweeper outpacing almost all but diancite mons and eleki or run crazy ev spreads w plenty of bulk and speed to get the job don most of the time
 
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update on my fun stupid cheesy psych terrain team, annihilape sucks sweaty butt and is yeeted off the team but the concept is surprisingly not trash. im not sure who to add for the last 3 but indeedee scream tail and deox are def stayin. im also tryin timid max hp and spa deoxyis with recover to try to give it more longevity and it only rly needs expanding force and tbolt for its moves

about the new mythical, its actually pretty good. it isnt splashable on diff teams but it offers some nice role compression for offense teams who want a tox immune booster and its type lets it counter enough mons that it aint useless vs non stall teams. in order to sit on eleki as god intended and to make the most out of pechas stat allocation i like runnin mixed bulk, latiasite has 457 defense with 0 evs and a defense boosting nature. it likes to run max hp and some combo of spdef and spa evs

Pikarunt (Pecharunt) @ Latiasite
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpA / 228 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Malignant Chain
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

honorable mention for pechas only other distinct set, only comment "where tf is spikes"
Pecharunt @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain/Toxic
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Recover

this set is trash but if you are a little crazy and stubborn this is the pecharunt for you
Pecharunt @ Lucarionite/Cameruptite
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HPf / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature or EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SpA Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Malignant Chain
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
 
Hey, this is my first poste here on smogon but this is the raging bolt set that helped me peak
1630 elo

Raging Bolt @ Red Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball

So this set specializes in wallbreaking those hard nuts to crack and is generally hard to switch into. Draco meteor is here to 1 shot eternatus and other dragons that try to wall this set. Thunderclap kills any fast water pokemon or chipped pokemon with the priority. Oh yeah ,this thing walls all of the regieleki sets and is the main way I manage to get it in without risking a 2 shot aside sacing a mon, but beware of volt switch. This set's main move to be pressed is weatherball which is effectively a 150 bp move affected by stab and 2 shots almost everything that does not resist it or switches in with blue orb. I feel like it is superior to raikou because its bulk almost always ensures it only ever loses to ground types which are usually predictable.
Edit: 20 ivs are here because of something that its event has 20 ivs or something, no one runs foul play in this meta anyway
Edit 2: I will show my cm solgaleo set next time.
 
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Flamingwrench112 said:
Hey, this is my first poste here on smogon but this is the raging bolt set that helped me peak
1630 elo

Raging Bolt @ Red Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball

So this set specializes in wallbreaking those hard nuts to crack and is generally hard to switch into. Draco meteor is here to 1 shot eternatus and other dragons that try to wall this set. Thunderclap kills any fast water pokemon or chipped pokemon with the priority. Oh yeah ,this thing walls all of the regieleki sets and is the main way I manage to get it in without risking a 2 shot aside sacing a mon, but beware of volt switch. This set's main move to be pressed is weatherball which is effectively a 150 bp move affected by stab and 2 shots almost everything that does not resist it or switches in with blue orb. I feel like it is superior to raikou because its bulk almost always ensures it only ever loses to ground types which are usually predictable.

This thing survives lugia blue orb at turn 13 in the file and yes, I asked permission from the other person.


Edit: 20 ivs are here because of something that its event has 20 ivs or something, no one runs foul play in this meta anyway
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Attachments

Flamingwrench112 said:
Hey, this is my first poste here on smogon but this is the raging bolt set that helped me peak
1630 elo

Raging Bolt @ Red Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball

So this set specializes in wallbreaking those hard nuts to crack and is generally hard to switch into. Draco meteor is here to 1 shot eternatus and other dragons that try to wall this set. Thunderclap kills any fast water pokemon or chipped pokemon with the priority. Oh yeah ,this thing walls all of the regieleki sets and is the main way I manage to get it in without risking a 2 shot aside sacing a mon, but beware of volt switch. This set's main move to be pressed is weatherball which is effectively a 150 bp move affected by stab and 2 shots almost everything that does not resist it or switches in with blue orb. I feel like it is superior to raikou because its bulk almost always ensures it only ever loses to ground types which are usually predictable.
Edit: 20 ivs are here because of something that its event has 20 ivs or something, no one runs foul play in this meta anyway
Edit 2: I will show my cm solgaleo set next time.
Click to expand...

i like your team idea. its hard getting slow attackers to work well, takes lotsa fine tuning in the teams type chemistry. im curious is corv a teamslot up for contention? the team is well balanced in terms of type synergy asides from fast shadow ballers (ded horseys) but is just a tad lacking in immediate unboosted power which raging bolts playstyle favors most. i assume arceus is specially bulky with enough speed to outpace redorb lando which would otherwise wreck your team. arceus and eternatus form your teams defensive core alongside the metal kitty, but the metal kitty doesnt do much for the teams style or for the teams type balancing and ghost weakness asides from being used as eternatus backup vs psychic and ground moves. not like i know your team well but if it could be modified id guess corv is the #1 candidate to trade out with the kitty being a #2 candidate. im not sure who could potentially replace the kitty but considering the teams ghost weakness and corv being a generic defog blob i think mandibuzz would suit the team significantly better than corv as a generic defog blob
 
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dilllllllllllon said:
im not sure who could potentially replace the kitty but considering the teams ghost weakness and corv being a generic defog blob i think mandibuzz would suit the team significantly better than corv as a generic defog blob
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What mega does mandibuzz use, also ngl i put corviknight for anti dnite when i made the team but i guess i can remove it ebcause of the cat

Edit:this is the team i made: https://pokepast.es/dba9c38f6e0bbcc9

Edit 2: this is the same thing without treads and with etern: https://pokepast.es/668a094ea929fc45

Edit 3: quantam helped me with arceus and eternatus so here it is (he only said to make both of them bulkier but he dint sprcify for arceus the bulk) https://pokepast.es/ba1bf73490d87a4e
 
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Flamingwrench112 said:
What mega does mandibuzz use, also ngl i put corviknight for anti dnite when i made the team but i guess i can remove it ebcause of the cat

Edit:this is the team i made: https://pokepast.es/dba9c38f6e0bbcc9

Edit 2: this is the same thing without treads and with etern: https://pokepast.es/668a094ea929fc45

Edit 3: quantam helped me with arceus and eternatus so here it is (he only said to make both of them bulkier but he dint sprcify for arceus the bulk) https://pokepast.es/ba1bf73490d87a4e
Click to expand...
mandibuzz almost always runs sablenite with minimum speed and slightly mixed bulk (like 40-80 evs in the less specialized defensive stat) but aggronite can come in handy too by making phys fairy stab bounce off it and removing the trocks and electric weaknesses. mandibuzz has also occasionally ran venusaurite but itd probs be trash rn, gyaradosite is another odd choice and its untested but mold breaker toxic can let mandi actually do things vs lugia and most forms of spectrier. mandi suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome hard, it has so many good options that it cant really fit like iron defense nasty plot toxic, honestly yveltal would be so good for the meta rn we really need a mandibuzz that can actually keep shadow ball spam in check. shadow ball spam is a wildcard rn its hard to fit but can wreck so many meta teams for no real reason
 
dilllllllllllon said:
mandibuzz almost always runs sablenite with minimum speed and slightly mixed bulk (like 40-80 evs in the less specialized defensive stat) but aggronite can come in handy too by making phys fairy stab bounce off it and removing the trocks and electric weaknesses. mandibuzz has also occasionally ran venusaurite but itd probs be trash rn, gyaradosite is another odd choice and its untested but mold breaker toxic can let mandi actually do things vs lugia and most forms of spectrier. mandi suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome hard, it has so many good options that it cant really fit like iron defense nasty plot toxic, honestly yveltal would be so good for the meta rn we really need a mandibuzz that can actually keep shadow ball spam in check. shadow ball spam is a wildcard rn its hard to fit but can wreck so many meta teams for no real reason
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So what other mon can i use for a counter for altarianite dnite
 
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