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M&M Mix and Mega

I had a lot of fun with STABmons + Mix and Mega, so I figured I should hop over to the format proper. What changes would you suggest be made to my StabMega team besides subbing out certain moves for lower power versions such as Spacial Rend -> Dynamax Cannon and Moongeist Beam -> Shadow Ball?

1771968261539.png


https://pokepast.es/b5084202ff95087d

Eternatus (HDB) is a standard specially defencive set taken directly from one of the sample teams. It's a great general purpose mon to tank hits, deal decent damage, keep hazards off with Mortal Spin, and just generally blanket check a lot of common threats.

I tend to lead with Swampert (Sableite), since magic bounce really helps in denying hazards and getting rocks up reliably. It's used as a bulky slow pivot with flip turn, helping bring the big threats like Ho-Oh and I-Val in safely. It can also chip away at opponents that can't overpower its massive bulk.

The reason for having two mons intended to deal with hazards is because Ho-Oh runs Choice Band instead of HDB, so keeping rocks off is very important. It's normally used as a midgame breaker to nuke annoying enemies and create openings for the second half of the team to sweep.

Kingambit (Aerodactylite) is primarily used as a ghost check and a lategame cleaner with Sucker punch. Swords Dance helps it break straggling bulky mons and net KOs unboosted Sucker Punch wouldn't normally be able to. It's pretty much the same thing it does in SV OU, just with Aerodactylite instead of Supreme Overlord, though I'm not entirely sure that trade is worth it.

Gholdengo (Eelektrossite) is the glue of the team and by far the most important member. The mega gives it a pretty decent buff in most relevant stats, and importantly Levitate to eliminate one of its major weaknesses and allow it to get in for free on ground moves. It can be used as a wallbreaker with Nasty Plot, a sweeper thanks to its relatively high speed and good bulk, and is just generally great at chipping down and finishing off enemies throughout a battle, especially since it can tank a lot of hits with decent defences and a steel typing as well as sustaining itself with recover. Again, it's pretty much the same set it uses in SV OU.

Iron Valiant (Diancite) is another lategame cleaner, this time with a lot more immediate power. Fleur Cannon is a fantastic "Delete the pokemon in front of me" button, Close Combat can be used for high power even after the special attack drop, and Shadow Ball takes care of pesky ghost types. Destiny Bond is useful for eliminating powerful threats that outspeed it or tank a hit and kill. It also has utility in the midgame, as it can be used to fire off one or two powerful moves before being switched out again, but care must be taken to avoid it dying before the conditions become advantageous for it.
 
I had a lot of fun with STABmons + Mix and Mega, so I figured I should hop over to the format proper. What changes would you suggest be made to my StabMega team besides subbing out certain moves for lower power versions such as Spacial Rend -> Dynamax Cannon and Moongeist Beam -> Shadow Ball?

1771968261539.png


https://pokepast.es/b5084202ff95087d

Eternatus (HDB) is a standard specially defencive set taken directly from one of the sample teams. It's a great general purpose mon to tank hits, deal decent damage, keep hazards off with Mortal Spin, and just generally blanket check a lot of common threats.

I tend to lead with Swampert (Sableite), since magic bounce really helps in denying hazards and getting rocks up reliably. It's used as a bulky slow pivot with flip turn, helping bring the big threats like Ho-Oh and I-Val in safely. It can also chip away at opponents that can't overpower its massive bulk.

The reason for having two mons intended to deal with hazards is because Ho-Oh runs Choice Band instead of HDB, so keeping rocks off is very important. It's normally used as a midgame breaker to nuke annoying enemies and create openings for the second half of the team to sweep.

Kingambit (Aerodactylite) is primarily used as a ghost check and a lategame cleaner with Sucker punch. Swords Dance helps it break straggling bulky mons and net KOs unboosted Sucker Punch wouldn't normally be able to. It's pretty much the same thing it does in SV OU, just with Aerodactylite instead of Supreme Overlord, though I'm not entirely sure that trade is worth it.

Gholdengo (Eelektrossite) is the glue of the team and by far the most important member. The mega gives it a pretty decent buff in most relevant stats, and importantly Levitate to eliminate one of its major weaknesses and allow it to get in for free on ground moves. It can be used as a wallbreaker with Nasty Plot, a sweeper thanks to its relatively high speed and good bulk, and is just generally great at chipping down and finishing off enemies throughout a battle, especially since it can tank a lot of hits with decent defences and a steel typing as well as sustaining itself with recover. Again, it's pretty much the same set it uses in SV OU.

Iron Valiant (Diancite) is another lategame cleaner, this time with a lot more immediate power. Fleur Cannon is a fantastic "Delete the pokemon in front of me" button, Close Combat can be used for high power even after the special attack drop, and Shadow Ball takes care of pesky ghost types. Destiny Bond is useful for eliminating powerful threats that outspeed it or tank a hit and kill. It also has utility in the midgame, as it can be used to fire off one or two powerful moves before being switched out again, but care must be taken to avoid it dying before the conditions become advantageous for it.
I may be wrong but Val is banned here, I think. Etern can also no longer be a hazard control option due to no mortal spin.
Swap out Val for a Pixie Eleki maybe and you get hazards and Espeed both!
 
Just some normal teams.

:deoxys-speed: :pecharunt: :ho-oh: :magearna: :great tusk: :garganacl:
First week team, just trying to relearn the meta so nothing really special. Just wanted to see what the new stones got to offer so I built a team around the zyg deos and turns out it was quite good.

:eternatus: :spectrier: :great tusk: :gyarados: :magearna: :arceus:
Screens but this is the double screens structure. The reason for running double screeners is because you want to run a lot of bulky set up sweepers who will take up a lot of screens turns just to set up so one screeners alone wont be enough. I didnt think too hard when making this team so Im sure there are better bulky set up mons out there for this team.

:calyrex-ice: :magearna: :volcanion: :kingambit: :arceus-ghost: :archaludon:
Wanted to try trick room bc it seems pretty good. Magearna is good on every team and caly-i is a mon that Ive always liked. Volcanion is a pretty cool breaker, basically 2hko everything that's not water type and archa is there if you run into those water type. I think this is a very underexplored playstyle, I even have another version with sash hatt as the tr lead and cb caly-i.

:groudon: :ho-oh: :landorus: :regieleki: :pecharunt: :gouging fire:
With the new edition of 2 chloro stones, I thought sun was going to be a viable playstyle and I tried very hard to make it work but the more I tried the more I understood that the new stones are ass and there are no good abusers either. I knew I have to come up with different breakers for sun and that's when I rmb gouging fire. This guy was a menace in ou and I thought he can do smth here. Lando is just a random set I came up with bc there's no good fire type with wball so I figured I just give a mon fire type with hearthflame mask. This is probably the team I like the most.

:rotom-heat: :pincurchin: :regieleki: :iron thorns: :swampert: :mandibuzz:
Eterrain received two new surge surfer stones I thought there has to be smth there. I chose rotom-h bc I want a mon that can beat both hooh and mage as they are imo the two best special walls rn. The huge speed boost ended up being pretty nice as I was able to put all of the speed evs in hp and do some funny stuff like 1v1ing etern. Thorns is just the best mon that can take advantage of eterrain while having sd. You can just put any sd mon here and it will probably work but thorns is the coolest imo.

:hippowdon: :iron thorns: :iron boulder: :corviknight: :eternatus: :heatran:
Another playstyle that received two new stones. Excadrite definitely has huge potential and once again I chose thorns to be the one getting double speed. He just so happens to have both rock and electric type that fit both playstyle. Heatran with chomp z is also pretty cool, very hard to wall without a water type on the team. Now I lost bc I changed etern from sludge bomb to toxic last min but I think sand has serious potential, at least more than eterrain.

:archaludon: :landorus: :pelipper: :regieleki: :basculegion: :pecharunt:
Have to get serious for the finals so no more experimental stuff. I ended up bringing a pretty standard rain team tho I wanted to bring my trusty hearthflame lando again as he has some really nice quality like checking eleki and mage, sandsear and wball synergize well with rain, moldy rocks is always good. I think you can legit put this guy on all four weather team and he would perform well.

:slowking-galar: :kyurem-white: :mandibuzz: :regieleki: :arceus-ground: :pecharunt:
I was chosen to play in tb meaning I have to use another serious team, very unfortunate. Luckily snow is the only other weather I havent tried and I can still convince my managers to lemme bring it as long as it's not full snow. Originally I was experimenting with zyg kyu or camerup kyu but I find the mu into levi steel kinda annoying so I decided to use kyuw as it has moldy to ep those levi steels.

Not gonna leave much thought on the current meta or on which stuff is broken since idrc. What I will say tho is I think people should experiment more with non mega breakers, like caly-i, kyuw or goug. The lack of mega isnt that big of a hinderance especially if you put specs or band onto those mons.

Lastly I want to s/o my teammates. At the time of me posting this, there's still one game left to decide whether we win or not but Im posting this anws cause the result doesnt really matter to me. I had a fun time trying some stupid stuff and that's all that matters. S/o to my managers Ivar57 and Betticus IV for believing in me even when mnm is not my strong suit. S/o to all my other teammates for putting up great performance as a team. Special s/o to TrainerGoldAlt for always being available to help me test.

Edit: Nvm ignore all that we won lets gooooooo
 
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I know this forum hates me but I have a semi-finalized team
https://pokepast.es/996be973ec0d44b1
a team that has ok synergy, a trash matchup against ho-oh, and i was going to put a cetitan with staraptite on my team because it’s pretty much the only mon that has a strategy with it and even then it barely learns any fighting type moves

I know this forum hates me but I have a semi-finalized team
https://pokepast.es/996be973ec0d44b1
a team that has ok synergy, a trash matchup against ho-oh, and i was going to put a cetitan with staraptite on my team because it’s pretty much the only mon that has a strategy with it and even then it barely learns any fighting type moves
I got to top 500 with this team and it’s still garbage
IMG_0302.jpeg
 
We've heard people opinions from the survey, and now it's finally time to act on them. The suspect test for Dragapult 2, electric boogaloo, is now live! Come check it out here!

View attachment 814679

The suspect is over, and votes have started coming in. Not everyone has cast theirs yet, but enough have that the threshold to restrict Dragapult can no longer be met. As a result, Dragapult will remain unrestricted in Mix and Mega.
 
zastra coerced me into writing a post on this

Free Shed Tail

Shed Tail was banned somehow magically without a ban post anywhere in this thread or in past gen's forum (at least I couldnt find one). The move is not broken in MnM and should be freed immediately.

Shed Tail users: Cyclizar, Orthworm, Sceptile, Smeargle
Doesn't take a lot to see that its mainly the former 2, though Sceptile could maybe work with a comparable Speed to Cyclizar and typing difference is not irrelevant, though not having Regen is a big discount.

Cyclizar takes the fast Tail side with excellent speed and crucially Regen which helps free up the item slot. Its drawbacks are pretty notable though: Fast tail isn't what is desired often since your switch in the abuser needs to take the hit, and its typing leaves it suspect to the most common priority in the tier.

Orthworm is physically bulky, has a good typing + ability, and a slow enough speed to slow Tail. Slow Tail still has its risks, since you need to have enough hp after taking a hit to pass the sub. Orthworm's SpD is also severely lacking, and even with Sitrus to help guarantee a pass it is quite unlikely for it to be able to Tail more than once, or even be relevant after its usage.

As we can see these users are not particularly great, and the potentially better one (Orthworm) also does not benefit from the tier's mechanic.
The most direct comparison for this is Screens, which has better users that provide more than just the setup enabling, and also not being immediately apparent (Eleki, DeoS). Both Shed Tail and screens are enablers of setup stuff on hyper offense, with Screens being easier to setup, is more likely to be resetup later in the game, and easier to use?, while Shed Tail provides a guaranteed turn if the Sub isn't broken.

Due to the specific advantages of Shed Tail there are limited options for better abusers than with screens, with Dnite realistically being the only one brought up before due to Multiscale and its tendency to really end games with two DD turns. However, if the number of "broken abusers" is only 1-2 then they should be banned over Shed Tail anyways by policy.

Shed Tail freed right now gives ample time during MnM Open to evaluate its proper capabilities prior to OMPL
 
IMG_4699.jpeg

ZA starters have their abilities revealed.
Meganium gets Mega Sol, treating all its moves like Sun is up regardless of current weather conditions.
Feraligatr gets Dragon type -ate called Dragonize.
Emboar gets Molder Breaker.
Emboar is an easy change.
Feraligatr requires some work but is just a clone of another ability.
Meganium we’ll have to wait till Champions to see the full extent of what Mega Sol does and how it interacts with other weathers like reducing boosts from Rain/Sand/Snow.
 
View attachment 818482
Feraligatr gets Dragon type -ate called Dragonize.
Another extreme speed abuser with +55 attack and stab.
Dragon only has one resistance and one immunity, making it unique against other common mega stones with Aerialite, Pixielite and Refigerate.
The most serious drawback its immunity to Fairy-type moves, in addition to being vulnerable to Altarianite users in 1vs1. Therefore, I don't consider it the best Mega Stone for Extreme Speed users.
It's better than Glalitite because it has STAB and a higher attack. But it's worse than Pinsirite.

For the overall metagame, Pecharunt @Chimechite (and I'm still not sure if it will keep Levitate). Magearna and any Steel type in general will be able to withstand all types of Extreme Speed spam. The Fairy type will now be more important than ever thanks to Mega Meganium.

Those are my first impressions. We still have to see how everything develops.
 
Another extreme speed abuser with +55 attack and stab.
Dragon only has one resistance and one immunity, making it unique against other common mega stones with Aerialite, Pixielite and Refigerate.
The most serious drawback its immunity to Fairy-type moves, in addition to being vulnerable to Altarianite users in 1vs1. Therefore, I don't consider it the best Mega Stone for Extreme Speed users.
It's better than Glalitite because it has STAB and a higher attack. But it's worse than Pinsirite.

For the overall metagame, Pecharunt @Chimechite (and I'm still not sure if it will keep Levitate). Magearna and any Steel type in general will be able to withstand all types of Extreme Speed spam. The Fairy type will now be more important than ever thanks to Mega Meganium.

Those are my first impressions. We still have to see how everything develops.
:sv/Entei:
Gouging Fire but better. Feraligite Entei is the new wave.
 
:sv/Entei:
Gouging Fire but better. Feraligite Entei is the new wave.
This is a great time to bring up synergies, actually. Entei is probably going to be the only viable Feraligite user purely because it's not ESpeed weak and has the typing to synergise well. I also looked at Barraskewda but I can't see that taking off over Barbaracite just purely due to how immensely potent +Fighting and Tough Claws are.
:sv/entei:
Entei @ Feraligite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Double-Edge
- Iron Head

I think Emboarite might see some usage thanks to it having real stats gifted, unlike Hearthflame Mask. The most notable thing is we have a defensive Mold Breaker stone, meaning Pokemon like Clodsire now get a lot of value without having to give up some of its previous, excluding the obvious Unaware-shaped hole. Another benefactor is likely to be Heatran of all Pokemon since it now can reliably stallbreak without gaining a genuinely horrendous typing, break through Heatranite Magearna/Corv, and set Rocks reliably. I don't see Hearthflame Mask Tusk being replaced on HO any time soon, nor any fringe HearthMask Deo-S teams, but this really helps teams just be more consistent with their hazard stacking and just general role providence.
:sv/heatran:
Heatran @ Emboarite
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power / Power Gem
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

:sv/clodsire:
Clodsire @ Emboarite
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 128 HP / 204 Atk / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover
- Spikes / Stealth Rock

And last, but very much not least, is Meganiumite. This looks like it will make a LOT of Grass-types viable purely because of the drawbackless Sun it provides for the user, even in Rain. Shaymin looks to be the main Grass-type user of the stone (both variants since Synthesis gives 2/3 HP recovery, but Land looks much better), but Florges also looks like it will be decent on stall thanks to it having Wish alongside the insane recovery Synthesis will provide. Cresselia will also be decent again, and probably the premier user of the stone, thanks to the recovery given to Moonlight and the Fairy typing and huge 65 SpA donation finally making it not hit like wet paper.
:sv/cresselia:
Cresselia @ Meganiumite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Stored Power / Psychic Noise
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind

:sv/shaymin:
Shaymin @ Meganiumite
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 61 Def / 151 SpA / 61 SpD
- Solar Beam / Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power / Growth
- Synthesis

:sv/shaymin-sky:
Shaymin-Sky @ Meganiumite
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power
- Growth

:sv/florges:
Florges (F) @ Meganiumite
Ability: Flower Veil
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic Noise / Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Wish
 
1774384196102.png


Assuming the new ability of the Meganiumite works the way we think it does, we should expand the list of Pokemon that benefit beyond Pokemon with Solar Beam and Synthesis. Morning Sun and Moonlight also heal more under sunlight. Of the list here, Pokemon like Iron Moth stand out the most, though something like Umbreon or Arboliva seem like they could also have a niche.

1774384421562.png

The list of Pokemon with Growth could also be interesting to investigate. There is some overlap between both groups, but there are some unexpected Pokemon that show up in this list, such as Camerupt (probably not that good but Fire/Fairy with Growth seems funny).
 
Entei and Arcanite H are already excellent with Altarianite. Who knows if they'll be banned in the future for being "Gouging Fire" with Extreme Speed. Depends on Water/Fairy mons return.
I’d say Entei would prefer Feralgite since it has that +55 Atk making its moves much stronger and +25 Def/+10 SpD providing better bulk.
That’s probably Feralgite’s biggest boon, having more Atk on the -ate ability megas than other -ate Megas. That and Dragon is pretty good defensively.
 
And last, but very much not least, is Meganiumite. This looks like it will make a LOT of Grass-types viable purely because of the drawbackless Sun it provides for the user, even in Rain. Shaymin looks to be the main Grass-type user of the stone (both variants since Synthesis gives 2/3 HP recovery, but Land looks much better), but Florges also looks like it will be decent on stall thanks to it having Wish alongside the insane recovery Synthesis will provide. Cresselia will also be decent again, and probably the premier user of the stone, thanks to the recovery given to Moonlight and the Fairy typing and huge 65 SpA donation finally making it not hit like wet paper.
:sv/cresselia:
Cresselia @ Meganiumite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Stored Power / Psychic Noise
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind

:sv/shaymin:
Shaymin @ Meganiumite
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 61 Def / 151 SpA / 61 SpD
- Solar Beam / Seed Flare
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power / Growth
- Synthesis

:sv/shaymin-sky:
Shaymin-Sky @ Meganiumite
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
- Earth Power
- Growth

:sv/florges:
Florges (F) @ Meganiumite
Ability: Flower Veil
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic Noise / Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Wish
Consider
IMG_4702.jpeg

Iron Moth @ Meganiumite
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Solar Beam
- Fiery Dance
- Dazzling Gleam
 
View attachment 818583

Assuming the new ability of the Meganiumite works the way we think it does, we should expand the list of Pokemon that benefit beyond Pokemon with Solar Beam and Synthesis. Morning Sun and Moonlight also heal more under sunlight. Of the list here, Pokemon like Iron Moth stand out the most, though something like Umbreon or Arboliva seem like they could also have a niche.
ConsiderView attachment 818622
Iron Moth @ Meganiumite
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Solar Beam
- Fiery Dance
- Dazzling Gleam
The only reason I didn't bring up any Fire-types is because there isn't any confirmation yet that Fire moves are actually boosted by Mega Sol, just that the effects of Harsh Sunlight override the current weather (excluding probably Drought) to prioritise the secondary effects that Sun gives (Bulba page link). If it does boost Fire moves then Iron Moth is probably the only Fire-type that uses the stone since Yard is more flexible for Fires. If it doesn't then Moth should almost never run Meganiumite.
 
ConsiderView attachment 818622
Iron Moth @ Meganiumite
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Solar Beam
- Fiery Dance
- Dazzling Gleam
Except for Fairy-type, Charizardite Y is better. It does exactly the same thing but better with Drought.
Maybe for Drizzle match, but Drought already annoying rain teams except for Primoldial Sea
 
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The only reason I didn't bring up any Fire-types is because there isn't any confirmation yet that Fire moves are actually boosted by Mega Sol, just that the effects of Harsh Sunlight override the current weather (excluding probably Drought) to prioritise the secondary effects that Sun gives (Bulba page link). If it does boost Fire moves then Iron Moth is probably the only Fire-type that uses the stone since Yard is more flexible for Fires. If it doesn't then Moth should almost never run Meganiumite.
I assume it will boost fire type moves since it says “moves behave as if harsh sunlight was active” and Fire type moves getting a 50% boost is definitely behaving like harsh sunlight being active.
Also the page doesn’t currently list Hydro Steam, which definitely should be boosted by Mega Sol. So it’s likely just not finished yet.
Except for Fairy-type, Charizardite Y is better. It does exactly the same thing but better with Drought.
If Mega Sol doesn’t boost Fire moves, then yeah Charizardite Y would be better.
If it does, then Meganiumite is an upgrade in most cases. It lasts so long as the Mega Sol user is on the field and can’t be replaced.
We’ll have to see the extent of how Mega Sol works in game and how it interacts with different weather too.
 
+Fairy secondary...
That is a bit tricky to get around since a Fire type would need to have a primary Fire typing.
Luckily most Fire types are primarily Fire types. Outside of restricted Pokemon and physical attackers, you have;
-Chi-Yu
-Volcarona
-Chandelure
-Coalossal
-Rotom-Heat
-Salazzel
-Houndoom
-Scovillain
As examples of Fire types that would lose their Fire typing.
And sure you might also want Volcanion or Heatran’s original typing instead of Fire/Fairy, or to use a physical Fire type.
However Mega Sol/Meganiumite generally seems better than Drought/Charizardite Y (still assuming that Fire moves are boosted which is more than likely since Solar Beam in the trailer didn’t get its power cut in half by Rain and how its worded).
You don’t have to worry about timing or some Drizzle/Sand Stream/Snow Warning Pokemon stuffing out your moves. It makes Solar Beam safe so you don’t have to run Energy Ball and can threaten Water and Rock types more effectively. And crucially it works against Primordial Sea (probably), so you aren’t giga-cucked by Blue Orb users.
So there is still merit to using Charizardite Y on some Fire types, but Meganiumite is usually better when you can keep your Fire typing.
 
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