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M&M Mix and Mega

With a new Champions update comes new Mega abilities.

:staraptor-mega: Staraptite: Contrary
:scolipede-mega: Scolipite: Shell Armor
:scrafty-mega: Scraftinite: Intimidate
:eelektross-mega: Eelektrossite: Eelevate (Levitate + Beast Boost) (quickban this)
:pyroar-mega: Pyroarite: Fire Mane (50% boost to Fire moves)
:malamar-mega: Malamarite: Contrary
:barbaracle-mega: Barbaracite: Tough Claws
:dragalge-mega: Dragalgite: Regenerator
:falinks-mega: Falinksite: Defiant
 
Staraptite might need a quickban as well, it's basically a better Malamarite that gives you STAB Superpower/CC. Excited for Scraftinite, Falinksite and especially Dragalgite to see more use now that they have real abilities, and even Pyroarite might see some niche use.
EDIT: nvm Staraptite is ass
 
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Magearna with Dragalgite sounds like absolutely disgusting pivot.

Other than that, the amount of mons who can do stupid things with Contrary is so vast that I would be surprised if both stones won't get quickbanned. There is a reason this ability isn't around AAA.
 
klimuk777 said:
Magearna with Dragalgite sounds like absolutely disgusting pivot.

Other than that, the amount of mons who can do stupid things with Contrary is so vast that I would be surprised if both stones won't get quickbanned. There is a reason this ability isn't around AAA.
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We've been theorycrafting in the OMcord about the contrary stone and have been unable to find any broken sets in theory. The stone is just super flawed, primary fighting type doesnt synergize with anything really in the game atm and opens you to revenge killing by all espeeders. Deo-s is probably the only potential user but it is still fodder to espeed, loses stab on psycho, maybe superpower will work sometimes but not enough to make it broken.
 
Let's start with the 3 big ones:

I cannot overstate how metagame defining dragalgite will be. It is by far the best stone to come out of this batch in terms of expanding viability. This stone unlocks so many mons. Swampert, goodra-h, dondozo, the list goes on. Iron treads stocks truly going to the moon. This stone gives us more ways to check zygardite attackers, which means that stone is here to stay. This is also an indirect buff to Ho-oh, as it can now form regen cores with mons other than alomomola. Alternatively, just slap this bad boy on magearna and turn your brain off :)

Eelectrossite solidifies its spot as the premier offensive levitate stone. Moth now runs this basically every time. It's also nice that it has no preference for physical or special. Might be good for idef zama or other defense boosters. That said, the main use case is boosting speed on sweepers. In a metagame with ate-speed, this seems manageable, so I don't think this will be broken. Could be wrong though.

I'm sorry to say that Staraptite probably gets banned. Yes, gaining a weakness to pixilate e-speed sucks, but being able to access boosting overheats, leaf storms, superpowers, etc. has consistently proven itself too powerful for many OMs. Do we really want magearna going for contrary fleur cannon? I think not. Would be cool if it stays though.

Other stones:
- Scraftinite is cool for more intimidate. It's a more defensive, physically inclined manectite (which was already slept on). I approve.
- Scolipite is a bit of a letdown. I actually liked poison point. It was very unique to punish contact in a metagame with basically no static, flame body, or rocky helmet. Ah well, slowbronite but physical isn't a bad niche, I suppose.
- Pyroarite could be funny on a Groudon sun maybe? Idk what to make of this one. It's probably bad. Maybe if Victini returns it runs this?
- Falinksite is 100% a meta call. With more intimidate entering the meta, it could be worth considering. For pure laddering, probably not.
- Barbaracite keeping tough claws is great. Best case scenario for this one tbh. Good for mons who want stab on their CC. No guard could have been cool, and way less broken than the special attacking options, but, let's be honest, it was always gonna keep tough claws.
- Malamarite stays banned :/

Tl;dr: The metagame is shifting to favor balance/bulky builds with the addition of regenerator plus more critical hit negation and intimidate stones. Traditional offense stays intact, as regen pivots help it a lot, but hyper offense may struggle more. Iron treads stays winning.
 
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I think we're forgetting just how good the Sun stones are and, in turn, how good Pyroarite will be thanks to the Speed increase it provides. For example, I think Moth actually has a use case for not running Phoxite/Absolite/Eelek despite being slower than Meta Ursh and Adamant Skewda purely because the speed tier is workable (faster than Arceus and Meta Hamu and speedties offensive Etern).

For the record I expect it to be a Tier 3 stone, i.e. viable but not overly commonplace, which would probably place it on the same amount of usage as stones like Absolite, Salamencite, and Meganiumite.
 
Tiering Update​

:sv/basculin-white-striped::sv/basculegion::sv/basculegion-f:

​
QT​
zastra​
Rofna​
Sammy​
Seraphz​
Final Verdict​
Last Respects​
Quickban​
Quickban​
Suspect​
Quickban​
Quickban​
Quickban​

Last Respects has been banned from Mix and Mega! Consequently, Basculegion-M has been unrestricted!

:basculin-white-striped::basculegion::basculegion-f:
Last Respects has always been a controversial move, but recent developments have pushed it to the point where it can no longer be considered a competitive element in Mix and Mega. Between the rise of Absolite Z Basculin-W sets and rain teams being as threatening as ever, the move has become far too overwhelming to handle late-game. The core issue, naturally, lies in the move itself, as it takes immense resources to handle a 200 to 300 BP STAB move--often requiring teams to have a Normal or bulky Dark type such as Arceus or Mandibuzz in the back. However, even these answers aren't hard to exploit. Basculin and Basculegion can simply click Flip Turn, gain momentum and make progress. Rain variants push these interactions even further. Choice Band Basculegion under rain deals enormous damage with its Water STABs alone, with Wave Crash heavily pressuring many pokemon expected to answer LR. Basculegion-F, while less common currently, also contributes to the issue through Agility + Lucarionite-boosted LR sets. Ultimately, Last Respects places an unreasonable burden on both building and in-game with insufficient counterplay, and it is therefore time for the move to say goodbye to Mix and Mega.

We understand that the timing of the ban comes shortly after the new reveals, but we do not believe them to meaningfully affect Last Respects' place in the metagame.

:deoxys-speed:
We also voted on suspecting Deoxys-Speed, but that decision has been put on hold for now following the recent changes and will be reevaluated at a later date once the metagame has had more time to develop.
 
i was experimenting with staraptite and i discovered torterra is pretty decent with it
(Torterra) @ Staraptite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Superpower
- Synthesis
- Stone Edge
he can heal, bulk up, and stack up sum pretty good buffs but he gets destroyed by zygardite users, 2 stab boosting moves is pretty good
 
I've found that outside of the weakness to Pixispeed, Iron Hands can use Dragalgite pretty well
1781796623055.png

Those stats are pretty fun.
Anyway, after using it for multiple games, I can safely say Eelektrossite is now really good for Iron Moth and can snowball unprepared or worn down teams really well with Fiery Dance also giving access to a possible +2 boost after a kill.
 
Giagantic said:
We've been theorycrafting in the OMcord about the contrary stone and have been unable to find any broken sets in theory. The stone is just super flawed, primary fighting type doesnt synergize with anything really in the game atm and opens you to revenge killing by all espeeders. Deo-s is probably the only potential user but it is still fodder to espeed, loses stab on psycho, maybe superpower will work sometimes but not enough to make it broken.
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After further consideration, I think yall are right, and staraptite might be kinda mid. I tried to find literally any set that felt broken, and none of them do. I think a lot of people will end up getting tricked by contrary CC, which seems wayyyy worse than either superpower or draco meteor(and it's ilk).

In terms of actually viable sets, there's like 4 ideas that felt compelling. I'm not convinced by torterra just yet, but great tusk typing is never bad, and synthesis is a strong point in its favor. Being slower than ho-oh just feels like a non-starter to me. Anyway, without further rambling:

Okidogi (M) @ Staraptite
Ability: Toxic Chain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot/Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch/Rock Tomb/Throat Chop
This could also be something like conkeldurr if you value mach punch over the extra speed from ogi.

Archaludon @ Staraptite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Roar/Dragon Tail/Thunderbolt/Earthquake
The strongest of the Draco Meteor sets I theorized. Hydreigon and Noivern can do something similar, but they rely on focus blast for fighting stab. They get u-turn and more speed, which is nice, but the added bulk and reliable aura sphere on arch feels better to me. Modest 2hkos most ho-oh sets with draco, but really can't do shit to dragalgite magearna.

Deoxys-Speed @ Staraptite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide/Thunder Punch
This one is the most obvious pick, and it's pretty good. Problem here is opportunity cost. I would basically always prefer zygardite on this guy for the role of "2nd fastest attacker". I think psycho boost might be bait with no stab boost. Maybe special attacking is better though, idk.

Magearna @ Staraptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Aura Sphere
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room
Probably the actual best abuser. This thing seems like a menace in the late game. Fleur cannon into +2 Thunderbolt needs very little chip to guarantee a ko on max hp Ho-oh. Will this be better than Eelectrossite for the sweeper role? Probably not. But it does do something meaningfully different than other mag sets, which can't be said for deoxys.

As far as I can tell, the only truly new sets to come from this stone are just ok. Its best abusers generally have something better to do. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Staraptite may not be ban worthy. It might even be kinda bad. Either way, expect this stone to be spammed on low ladder.
 
1781877132612.png

Saw the new stones dropped and decided to steal some ompl stuff and play a couple games on an old suspect alt, ended up going like 16-0 or something which was fun.

Of the new stones, three stand out:
Eelektrossite seems really powerful since a lot of stuff that already wants Levitate appreciate +30 to their offensive stats and the potential setup sweeps bolstered by the Beast Boost buffs.
Staraptite has some cool applications but seems pretty limited overall, like the amount of viable mons that have moves to proc Contrary seems okay at a glance but the Fighting type opens you up to pixiespeed revenge kills so the boosts don't really amount to much long-term?
Dragalgite is probably going to be very splashable, everybody loves a fat regen pivot and mnm finally got a stone to make it work.

Of the rest, I think maybe Barbaracite works out okay? I don't see it being an upgrade to Metagrossite since the mons that want the fast offensive boost need that +40 Speed, but maybe +20 ends up being enough for certain things? Scolipite also seems like it has niche applications on stall but the meta does not seem kind to fatter do nothing builds at a glance so probably a bit too underwhelming.

Overall I still think this is a fun tier, don't think banning Last Respects is that bad of a decision since it was always enabling fishy rain teams and now the tier opens up to other flavors of offense and balance. Interested to see meta developments around some of the new stones and maybe some new mons pop off with the bigger pool of options available.

Edit:
1783003559931.png
shoutout pyu for broken team
 
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FlamPoke said:
View attachment 841674
Saw the new stones dropped and decided to steal some ompl stuff and play a couple games on an old suspect alt, ended up going like 16-0 or something which was fun.
Click to expand...
nice peak before i start post off

FlamPoke said:
Overall I still think this is a fun tier, don't think banning Last Respects is that bad of a decision since it was always enabling fishy rain teams and now the tier opens up to other flavors of offense and balance.
Click to expand...
Am wanting to say my two cents as the guy that kind of made Rain grow, since my original post didn't really do that. LR Bascu wasn't really a fish mon, it was just consistent at forcing progress without feeling overwhelming since it needed a lot to be up to succeed. For one, its unable to actually outspeed guys like Meta Zama and Zyg Deo-S in Rain without significant bulk/power loss, most Sable users handled it fine, Etern just shut it down etc.

When looking at older versions of Rain, Bascu was never really all that standout as a "broken cheese breaker" because it never was a do-nothing or do-everything, it was just a respectable breaker that could potentially clean house if given the opportunity with either Wave Crash or Last Respects. Even if Bascu was using LR, it would need to have lost a lot of ground to get any use out of that and the Rain user is probably behind anyway unless something like Eleki went boom. If you look at some of the Rain teams of the past ([1] [2]) there's a clearer distinction of an existing, chesseless backbone to make up for the fact that 1) it's basically a 5v6 and 2) the Rain user actually has to try and make progress properly with respect to what the opponent has, rather than just button clicking.

The reason I pointed out Archaludon on Rain is because there's not much you can do versus that guy except have something like Chimechite Hippowdon, Groundceus, or ESpeed + SpDef Mage, and Mage is losing its life in the process guaranteed. This to me felt more like the type of fish mon where you either have the answer and are fine or you don't and you can call it wraps. Basculegion isn't even always on these teams because fundamentally the cost of running Basculegion is that you actually have to respect your opponent, whereas the teams with Greninja + Archaludon and co. really don't have to do that quite nearly as much, although there are some Bascu Arch teams for sure. Take these two Gren teams ([1] [2]) versus these two Bascu teams ([1] [2]) and there's a clear disctinction that comes up - Archaludon is what hypercarries Rain and it's to an arguably unhealthy degree, and it's especially prevelant here IMO that the mon either will just remove everything or it will remove up to 1 thing and drop very quickly.

I can partially see where the ban is coming from. Last Respects is a very strong move, and on HO it is very much a fish - it does nothing or it wins on the spot. However, we've had the general stance of "LR off of Rain is kinda awful to use and isn't consistent enough to be used" for years now and, even when we got the February and April updates, we still didn't really have any changes on that despite getting Absolite Z for Basculin, so for it to just be quickbanned without even a glance is what concerns me most considering that MnM is a permaladder with no time constraint issues. If it was an OMPL-targeted ban then it'd make more sense to do an unban sustest following it immediately rather than not having any say for the community whatsoever. We haven't had a survey in at least 5 months from what I can see so there's no justification from that either.

This ban also coming right when we got new stones is especially bizarre to me. Let the meta change, we literally let Scovillainite out for a week and considered that fine to allow in Open, but LR was too much when we got a new S-tier stone? Just doesn't add up to me is all.
 
This team has got me 1300 and even beat a few 1400-1500 players so decided ill share it. Tho i myself now its flawed in some facets and wouldn't mind a few pointers for improvement

Torterra @ Staraptite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Synthesis
- Superpower
- Headlong Rush
- Stone Edge

Iron Treads @ Dragalgite
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch

Iron Moth @ Eelektrossite
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball

Sinistcha @ Venusaurite
Ability: Hospitality
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Hex
- Scald
- Matcha Gotcha

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake

Kyurem @ Heracronite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot
- Iron Head

Iron Treads is my goto lead, it stealth rocks and then volt switches out and recovers some of the potential damage ít took, i can also hit sn opposition with eq, tho would steel beam(??

Torterra is the bulky sweeper and can unprepared with contrary, torterra is one of the few mons whod take the fighting type over grass type i think. But e speed and zygardite deo s make its job harder.

Iron moth is my special sweeper, eelektrosite is a very potent offensive option for it it can scale out of control quickly

Sinistcha acts as a tank and support, burns and str saps can give me easier switches

Hó Oh despite being offensively inclined i specced more into defensive cause it still hits hard, including one shotting most deo s zygardite sets and being able to take lots of special hits

Kyureum is my primary fast physical sweeper, it can scale speed with scale shot while hitting hard, kinda wish it learned eq cause magearnas be walling me hard with it.

Edit: One point of contentention i see after posting this is that i don't have a true breaker

This feels like my best team in any format ive done, but even then it not super consistent : p
 
god, if there is one, please do not let dragalgite be op. we have wanted a regenerator stone for 12 years. if it is banned, what then has been the purpose of our struggle? our patience? our yearning? has it all been in vain? dragalgite must stay, but it also must go. why do this to us god? force us to slay the fruits of our prayers with our own hands? killing our only begotten ability change? sadge
 
dilllllllllllon said:
god, if there is one, please do not let dragalgite be op. we have wanted a regenerator stone for 12 years. if it is banned, what then has been the purpose of our struggle? our patience? our yearning? has it all been in vain? dragalgite must stay, but it also must go. why do this to us god? force us to slay the fruits of our prayers with our own hands? killing our only begotten ability change? sadge
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Dragalgite in my testing has been perfectly balanced, and doesn't out compete other options such as immunities and things like Sablenite. It is nice for some mons like Magearna but by no means a shoe in on all teams.
 
Giagantic said:
Dragalgite in my testing has been perfectly balanced, and doesn't out compete other options such as immunities and things like Sablenite. It is nice for some mons like Magearna but by no means a shoe in on all teams.
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thanks for giving me hope man. regen cores with ho oh and bulky waters are gunna be scary but tbh stall needed a buff in mnm anyway to rein in bulky offense teams and restore balance to the meta trinity of fast offense, bulky offense, and stall
 
staraptrite magearna is broken pls nerf. it's the only mon broken with raptorite, itll be sad if one of the two needs to get banned

.44 Magearnum (Magearna) @ Staraptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA Modest OR 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe Timid Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
- Draining Kiss/Shift Gear

other fun raptor sets
ded angre monke (Annihilape) @ Staraptite
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rage Fist
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Torterra @ Staraptite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Headlong Rush
- Superpower
- Synthesis
credit to some rando on showdown

eelectrite allows for some fun speed boosting sets on mons that dont have the moveslot room or speed boost moves, and can allow atk boosts on mons that dont normally have access to boosting moves. tbh i dont think eelectrite needs to be banned, it takes skill to use and is at least less intimidating than zygardite
Iron Moth @ Eelektrossite
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 100 Def / 156 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Discharge
- Morning Sun
fek u ho oh eat dis charge. agility no longer required

Muggsy (Pecharunt) @ Eelektrossite
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Malignant Chain
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
gimmicky but fun

LOL (Skeledirge) @ Eelektrossite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Slack Off
speed boosting skeledirge is peak meme

Iron Treads @ Eelektrossite
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Supercell Slam
- Rapid Spin

the real goat of dragalgite (shade thrown @ magearna)
Vaporeon Or Alomomola @ Dragalgite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect
wish is so so so so back. we have needed consistent wish support for so long. offense cant guarantee a mon is down and out just cuz its at low hp, its such a huge consistency boost for teams and pokemon who are long overdue for a valid spot in the meta. ho oh + ground type + regen water is such a smooth and easy team core. you can run the wish fishes for slower paced teams or run milotic on bulky offense teams. either way ho oh+ground type pairs suuuuuper well
 
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