Modest Blissey. Thought I should have done this in RMT

subparpokemaster

This blissey is just a part of my team and will be the eventual special wall. Looking at the EV spreads and natures, I thought it might be prudent to go with a modest nature to bolster the power of ice beam to catch dragons on the switch and get guaranteed kills (hopefully 4x that carry yache too). The total difference between max EV defense bold and modest is an 11 points to defense while it comes out to a much larger difference in special attack. If anyone can help and give me advice on this particular set up it would be greatly appreciated.


Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 108 SAtk/252 Def/148 Hp
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Softboiled
- Ice Beam
- Aromatherapy

sorry to those whom i have offended by being new and naive and posting in the RMT. I was under the impression that that was "stark mountain."
 
unfortunately that gets walled by ghosts. Also, I think that i can 2hko a gengar (assuming it isnt sashed and doesnt get me with focus blast) and handle a alakazam as long as it doesn't trick.
 
eh...we have a thread for new creative pokemon ideas you have.

on topic: blissey pretty much needs stoss unless you have a completely surefire other way to deal with cmkou. can you tell us what difference modest makes (what 3hko's turn into 2hko's and what 2hko's into OHKO's)
 
Stathakis said:
eh...we have a thread for new creative pokemon ideas you have.

on topic: blissey pretty much needs stoss unless you have a completely surefire other way to deal with cmkou. can you tell us what difference modest makes (what 3hko's turn into 2hko's and what 2hko's into OHKO's)
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I understand your statement, but I gotta say something: Just how many calm mind raikous do you see out there? Raikou isn't played very much on wi-fi battles, due to the lack of good ones out there. I'm just saying I wouldn't make a calm mind Raikou a main reason not to run seismic toss.
 
ok, change the scenario to bulky dancing lucario, or bulky dd gyarados, or calm mind jirachi, or swords dance weavile, or any kind of heatran. it's not just raikou that's the problem.
 
But with ICE BEAM with those peeps, it still wouldnt do much. Plus most people know to switch if a physical fighting pokemon is coming in.
 
I was planning to make this bliss for wi-fi. I'm not among those who does the whole shoddy thing. This basically turns a 3hko on kazam with stoss into a 2hko for ice beam, kos any dragons coming in on the switch, regardless of yache berry, and can 2hko gengar. I really can't effectively run s-toss because this is a wifi special wall and you see a lot of gengars as special sweep that can focus blast a blissey to death. I still need to run some calcs on pory-z to see if it is better to take on with ice beam rather than s-toss. This does handle yanmega too though.
 
Stathakis said:
ok, change the scenario to bulky dancing lucario, or bulky dd gyarados, or calm mind jirachi, or swords dance weavile, or any kind of heatran. it's not just raikou that's the problem.
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Seismic Toss Blissey beats none of those save Heatran. Gengar alone is more common than CM Raikou, and if you lose a special attack for Seismic Toss, you can't touch that so it threatens Focus Punch and Focus Blast.

For Heatran, there are 3 main sets you see: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, and Resttalk. Blissey can use Softboiled to PP stall their Fire move (and when that's gone, Heatran ceases to be a threat) if they are Choiced. If they are Resttalk, then Seismic Toss still loses.

As I said in your other thread, it's not raw points that matter, but the relative difference (that is to say, the % difference). All natures are a 10% difference. Looking at the raw points is misleading.

Ice Beam Blissey will never OHKO a Yache Dragon.
 
Modest will OHKO Garchomp where all others fail. I believe Gyarados as well.

I sometimes use Modest for CMBliss.
 
Ok, well as I said I am new and I guess i overestimated on the yache berry thing, but it does do significantly more damage to some fragile special sweepers, on shoddy it turned 3hkos for s-toss on kazam into 2hko. Plus, keep in mind that i am playing wifi and that heatran is not the most common poke out their, neither is cm raikou.

On the other hand, me being new. I don't really know the merits of the additional 11 points to the defense that bold provides. It seems to me that in the case that blissey is hit by any physical threat it's dead anyway (unless a counterbliss) and you should max its potential as a special wall.
 
As Obi said, natures make a 10% difference, the actual amount of points is just relative. You're trading off 10% of your defense to increase your damage by 10%. It's really not that big of a difference. You OHKO 4 HP, 0 SpDef Garchomp 25% of the time, and only OHKO a 4 HP, 0 SpDef Dragonite 6% of the time. Basically, you're going to end up 2HKOing with or without a Modest nature most of the time. It's not going to be even close if they're carrying a Yache Berry.
 
Do you think that it is better in the case that I just inflict a lot of damage on those guys? In the case of a dragon I will most likely switch to a different counter. Is it better to have that dragon hurt or just run s-toss and get in 100's?

The whole thing is, I just don't see myself letting my bliss stay in for a physical hit. It was certainly not made for that so I shouldn't apply it so. On that reasoning, should I reallocate the EV's more towards HP, SAtk, and SDef?
 
subparpokemaster said:
The whole thing is, I just don't see myself letting my bliss stay in for a physical hit. It was certainly not made for that so I shouldn't apply it so. On that reasoning, should I reallocate the EV's more towards HP, SAtk, and SDef?
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The problem here is that Blissey has a poor chance of OHKOing any of the Dragons with Ice Beam, which is the only reason you would run it in the first place. On the turn you spend IBing, said Dragon will be stat-upping, and you will die. What others are saying is to run Seismic Toss to hurt the things that won't necessarily kill you in one hit, like Gyarados or Weavile. But because you run SToss, Modest is unnecessary, which means you should Bold or Calm.

You still have no business staying in on Physical attacks though, so it doesn't really matter what nature you run.
 
The % difference is far more misleading than raw points. Natures do increase by 10% but 10% of 1 and 10% of 100 is far different.
 
lanfeara said:
The % difference is far more misleading than raw points. Natures do increase by 10% but 10% of 1 and 10% of 100 is far different.
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Not it's not. 10% is proportional to whatever stat. Blissey is a great example actually. The point difference between a Bold and Calm Blissey (assuming 252 Def EVs) is only 11 points, while you gain 46 SpDef. However, those 46 SpDef points will only reduce the damage you take by 10%, and those 11 points that you lost in defense mean that you take 10% more from physical hits. The % difference is not misleading at all.
 
lanfeara said:
The % difference is far more misleading than raw points. Natures do increase by 10% but 10% of 1 and 10% of 100 is far different.
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Obviously for "1" that's an exception because stats round off. However, no Pokemon's stats are so sad that this matters for more than a fraction of a point difference.



@those saying Blissey dies to any physical hit: Blissey has massive ability to take physical hits. This is yet another example where the raw Defense stat is misleading. What you actually want is the product of HP and Defense. This is the theory behind Dragontamer's tiers, for example. Just for comparison, with the Blissey spread from this thread, Blissey will take physical hits about as well as a 252 HP Swampert (Swampert takes physical hits less than 6.6% better). This is because you don't care about raw HP lost (that is what the raw Defense stat would tell you), but rather, the % of HP lost.
 
I had an eved Bold- 31/13/29/26/24/5 Blissey, 252 def 252 hp sp def

Went against a Weavile. No sd/ life orb, 1hko me with brick break.
 
Yay, another "new moveset lol!!!!" page. At least this is on the right track. Modest Blissey is indeed an option... on Calm Mind versions. With just one attack and not-full SAtk investment, it's really a big waste as Seismic Toss will almost always do more damage. Also worth noting is that Stealth Rock Blissey is wasting a moveslw you could be using for one of Blissey's many better options... like Seismic Toss, Aromatherapy, Calm Mind, etc.

However, it is certainly a good idea on more offensive sets, and I give you credit for not being like the Sepcial Gyarados people. Welcome to Smogon, and keep trying new things like this; soon you'll find one that works very well. That or you'll give up, but hopefully the former.
 
Jugrenae said:
I had an eved Bold- 31/13/29/26/24/5 Blissey, 252 def 252 hp sp def

Went against a Weavile. No sd/ life orb, 1hko me with brick break.
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Nobody's saying Blissey can take SE moves or is a physical wall. Honestly, did you think that Obi meant that Blissey can take a huge barrage of Fighting moves? No. He meant that Blissey isn't threatened by any physical hit; on the other hand most unSTABed, non-SE moves won't 2HKO her.
 
Jugrenae said:
I had an eved Bold- 31/13/29/26/24/5 Blissey, 252 def 252 hp sp def

Went against a Weavile. No sd/ life orb, 1hko me with brick break.
Click to expand...

There are only a few things possible here.

1) It was a critical hit
2) There was a +Attack boost you missed (at least +2 or +1 with a Choice Band)
3) You had -Defense somehow
4) Weavile was hacked, or
5) You are mistaken

252 Attack Adamant Choice Band Weavile Brick Break has a 0% chance to OHKO Blissey. In fact, 252 Def Bold Blissey has a 0% chance to be KOed by Brick Break + Stealth Rock.

In fact, 252 Attack Adamant Machamp has a large chance to not OHKO 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey with Cross Chop / DynamicPunch, assuming it doesn't have a Choice Band or a Life Orb.
 
why would you use modest and one special attack o_o sr seems out of place


and withouh twave this is just setup fodder for tar/jirachi/lucario etc etc
 
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