Moltres (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

[shrang]

Five sets for Moltres. That doesn't sound right.

Yep. I personally think the SubRoost (defensive) set is all Moltres can do in OU. Everything else is outclassed, just like in 4th gen.

 

[RaikouLover]

Solarbeam is a win-more move. It's not turning a close match into a win, it's just letting you do a Really Large Amount Of Damage as you sweep or turning a game-winning half-sweep that wrecks your opponent's team into a clean sweep by not leaving anything for your CB priority user to clean up. That's not giving you more wins, just making the same wins you already would have had more spectacular. That can be entertaining, but it's a common trap and it's not worth losing more games to do it.

Thats bullshit. You are assuming that every team has either Tyranitar, or Politoed. And since it does not, Solarbeam is a more effective choice given your logic. The fact is, not every team is weather, in which case Solarbeam is infinitely the better option against ALL of those opponents. In the case that they DO have a Tyranitar, HP Grass becomes more convenient to hit them, but since those battles come down to weather control anyway I don't see how this is such a big deal.

In the end, both are worthy of a slash, but Solarbeam has no reason to be omitted at all because contrary to this believe, it is not "useless."

Yep. I personally think the SubRoost (defensive) set is all Moltres can do in OU. Everything else is outclassed, just like in 4th gen.

Outclassed is not a reason to omit a viable set.

 

[am zane ok.]

Outclassed is not a reason to omit a viable set.

Unfortunately, it is.

But there is a reason why Moltres was a BL suspected threat (I think) in Generation IV. And now that there's Magic Mirror Espeon, it's a lot easier to squeeze Moltres into the fray. While its weaknesses DO suck, it has some cool opportunities to switch in on a lot of Choiced attacks (Bug, Fighting, Ground, Grass, Steel, and Fire). It's very strong, and a LOT faster than Heatran. Sadly that's really not enough to keep it from having major competition in this metagame... But I don't think its sweeping sets should be ignored, even in OU.

-Zane

 

[RaikouLover]

No, its not. Not if that pokemon has a viable Standard analysis. The only real cases where it is a good reason to omit a set is Lati@, who are so similar they can be called Lati@, where its preferable to use one over the other for different roles. Why use Dragon Dance Salamence when you have Multi-Scale Dragonite? Why even give Flygon an analysis?

 

[A Man In Black]

Thats bullshit. You are assuming that every team has either Tyranitar, or Politoed. And since it does not, Solarbeam is a more effective choice given your logic. The fact is, not every team is weather, in which case Solarbeam is infinitely the better option against ALL of those opponents. In the case that they DO have a Tyranitar, HP Grass becomes more convenient to hit them, but since those battles come down to weather control anyway I don't see how this is such a big deal.

HP Grass makes you less vulnerable to Politoed and Tyranitar (and Hippowdon, for that matter). Solarbeam makes you less vulnerable to...? All it seems to do is just hit harder.

You seem to be arguing for making a very vulnerable sweeper on a rather fragile team even more vulnerable for the sake of doing a bit more damage with a coverage move. That's what I mean by a "win by more" noob trap. Games aren't scored by differential, just by win/loss.

Why even give Flygon an analysis?

Isn't it not getting one?

 

[am zane ok.]

HP Grass makes you less vulnerable to Politoed and Tyranitar (and Hippowdon, for that matter). Solarbeam makes you less vulnerable to...? All it seems to do is just hit harder.

You seem to be arguing for making a very vulnerable sweeper on a rather fragile team even more vulnerable for the sake of doing a bit more damage with a coverage move. That's what I mean by a "win by more" noob trap. Games aren't scored by differential, just by win/loss.



Isn't it not getting one?

Honestly, when I used to use Moltres, I tended to only use Fire Blast and Air Slash. The sheer power of Fire Blast, and the great neutral coverage of Air Slash (and a VERY useful flinch chance) were almost all I ever needed. I found that its coverage move really needed strength in order to be useful, over the latter two options. I didn't play with Solarbeam because there was no Drought Ninetales at that time, but I'd imagine it would work perfectly fine due to the good coverage Moltres' STABs grant it (minus Rock-types, which are pretty rare besides Tyranitar/Terrakion [Dugtrio: "hi."] anyhow).

Basically, I'm saying it's really not that important. But if you've got a Ninetales on your team, it's a decent choice, due to the coverage move's competition with the usefulness of Moltres' STABs. I hope this makes sense... I'm really damned tired right now.

What about Hidden Power Fighting? It hits Tyranitar for great damage, after all, as it is one of Moltres' biggest enemies. It can also snag a good hit on Terrakion and Balloon Heatran.

And Flygon is not on the list, as of now... But I'm still fearing for Altaria's survival, when UU is finally established. Poor, poor Altaria. ):

-Zane

 

[A Man In Black]

What about Hidden Power Fighting? It hits Tyranitar for great damage, after all, as it is one of Moltres' biggest enemies. It can also snag a good hit on Terrakion and Balloon Heatran.

Bulky waters who aren't weak to fighting. (Except poor Quagsire who is never, ever, ever gonna wall Moltres, sorry.) Plus, all of those can roll with an HP Fighting if they are healthy and win the attack trade in a pinch.

 

[am zane ok.]

Bulky waters who aren't weak to fighting. (Except poor Quagsire who is never, ever, ever gonna wall Moltres, sorry.) Plus, all of those can roll with an HP Fighting if they are healthy and win the attack trade in a pinch.

Quagsire's not weak to HP Fighting. o.0 Well, I don't know. Bulky Waters are usually covered by a Grass-type *cough* Sun teams *cough*. Hidden Power Fighting is a good hit on everything else. And it's better than being completely walled by Heatran. I think that it should be worth a mention, due to the fact that it hits some critical opponents in this metagame for damage.

The 30 Speed IV sucks, though. ):

-Zane

 

[Bugbot]

4 HP EVs once again give an extra Stealth Rock damage (you would only have the ability to switch in ONCE instead of TWICE with 1HP, not that it's recommended). Lategame, 1HP CAN make a difference.

Change the sets from 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe to 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

QC talked about this, and Moltres is on the list now. It just gets eaten too hard by its counters in the current generation. Sorry man, and good luck in the future.