That's not true, not for Psychic. Psychic has literally lots of options to abuse, ranging from Substitute sets to more offensive approaches, which includes the Choice Scarf variant, and you might spend several turns just to find out which set your opponent is using.
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[Monotype] Hoopa-Unbound Suspect
- Thread starter Anttya
- Start date
- Status
That's not true, not for Psychic. Psychic has literally lots of options to abuse, ranging from Substitute sets to more offensive approaches, which includes the Choice Scarf variant, and you might spend several turns just to find out which set your opponent is using.
What Hoopa runs on Psychic is not predictable. OK you have Dark STAB, Drain Punch, but the other two moves can be interchanged.
hyperspacefury73.6%
drainpunch69.9%
gunkshot42.5%
darkpulse24.6%
hyperspacehole21.6%
firepunch20.0%
thunderbolt19.8%
energyball19.0%
substitute17.7%
drainpunch69.9%
gunkshot42.5%
darkpulse24.6%
hyperspacehole21.6%
firepunch20.0%
thunderbolt19.8%
energyball19.0%
substitute17.7%
choicescarf45.0%
lifeorb20.3%
leftovers11.2%
choiceband9.2%
assaultvest8.9%
lifeorb20.3%
leftovers11.2%
choiceband9.2%
assaultvest8.9%
And for Dark
hyperspacefury72.5%
gunkshot69.4%
hyperspacehole59.7%
energyball49.5%
darkpulse29.3%
drainpunch28.2%
psychic26.6%
thunderbolt17.7%
focusblast14.6%
gunkshot69.4%
hyperspacehole59.7%
energyball49.5%
darkpulse29.3%
drainpunch28.2%
psychic26.6%
thunderbolt17.7%
focusblast14.6%
If you think predictability is why Hoopa-U should stay in mono, you've got the whole thing mixed up.
I think Hoopa-U should stay in Mono. Even though I play grass, I still like playing Psychic with Hoopa-U. Yeah, there are versatilities in Hoopa-U's set but.. What about other Pokemon? Mew has versatility (bar its average stats), Salamence has versatility. A lot of Pokemon have versatility sort of like Hoopa-U, its just that Hoopa-U has the stats. This is what makes him good, but scarf mons bop him easily, and some mons even hard wall him (if u already know what type of Hoopa it is).
As versatile as it is, you could say the same for Mew. You never know if it has a Colbur Berry, or if its a wall, or if its a Hyper Offensive Physical, Or a Hyper Specially Offensive, or a baton passer, or a cleric, or a phaser. See you never know, even if Defensive is a common set, like Scarf Hoopa
As versatile as it is, you could say the same for Mew. You never know if it has a Colbur Berry, or if its a wall, or if its a Hyper Offensive Physical, Or a Hyper Specially Offensive, or a baton passer, or a cleric, or a phaser. See you never know, even if Defensive is a common set, like Scarf Hoopa
I would disagree with the Mew statement. Leftovers is used 84% of the time and its quite obvious what Mew runs as moves is also quite obvious:
willowisp77.2%
stealthrock55.6%
roost50.6%
defog44.4%
taunt28.7%
knockoff22.8%
softboiled21.8%
healbell14.7%
stealthrock55.6%
roost50.6%
defog44.4%
taunt28.7%
knockoff22.8%
softboiled21.8%
healbell14.7%
uturn7.4%
icebeam6.2%
flamethrower5.8%
toxic5.5%
psychic4.6%
earthpower3.8%
dazzlinggleam3.7%
suckerpunch3.4%
lowkick3.1%
aurasphere3.1%
psyshock3.0%
gunkshot3.0%
icebeam6.2%
flamethrower5.8%
toxic5.5%
psychic4.6%
earthpower3.8%
dazzlinggleam3.7%
suckerpunch3.4%
lowkick3.1%
aurasphere3.1%
psyshock3.0%
gunkshot3.0%
Oh And wait...you like playing Hoopa-U when using grass? Seems strange as fire punch + Psychic STAB sort of ruins grass...
I think Dragon Types like Salamence have a similar versatility level as Hoopa-U. Hoopa-U has the usual Psychic type (electric, psychic, grass) moveset + a dark type one. Its not as broken, many Fast Pokemon get access to U-Turn. I don't understand why it should be banned
Explain to me what Salamence does aside from Outrage/Eq/Fblast/Iron Tail/Dragon Dance.
Also, Salamence isn't centralizing - its #78 in usage while Hoopa-U is #12.
And the reason for banning Hoopa-U is not because of what it does to HO teams (even though without the proper scarf you can tear those down too), but its the fact that it tears down Balance and Stall. U-turn is something to be wary of, but you can easily patch that up with Mandibuzz/Slowbro.
Your argument is incomplete and I'd like to see more.
Attacking Mew is actually a thing and can be quite good, i.e Vacuum Wave for Bisharp.
Alright I'm sorry I actually have to say almost no one... anyway Vacuum Wave Mew actually sounds really cool, however there are alot better mons offensively and even for all its versatility, its stats do not back it up as an attacker.
Hoopa-U not only has the versatility but also has 160/170 stats to OHKO many things and 2HKO practically everything in the metagame.
juleocesar and IronicNinja , this is for you guys. Hope this clears up the controversy about some of the lower used types against Hoopa-U.
WishingJirachi7 joined.
CCPo6 Stun joined.
Format:
Monotype
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Baton Passer, can't pass Spe and other stats simultaneously
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Same Type Clause: Pokémon in a team must share a type
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
CCPo6 Stun's team:Glalie / Lapras / Piloswine / Froslass / Avalugg / Kyurem-Black
WishingJirachi7's team:Hoopa-Unbound / Tyranitar / Bisharp / Sableye / Hydreigon / Mandibuzz
(CCPo6 Stun set modchat to +)
CCPo6 Stun turned on modjoin.
Moderated chat was set to +!
Only users of rank + and higher can talk.
CCPo6 Stun made this room hidden.
★CCPo6 Stun: gl and hf
★WishingJirachi7: u2
Battle between WishingJirachi7 and CCPo6 Stun started!
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Go! Glalie!
Turn 1
Glalie, come back!
Go! Piloswine!
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
[Opposing TyranitarTube's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
The sandstorm is raging.
Turn 2
★WishingJirachi7: ..... r u fucking shitting me
★CCPo6 Stun: ?
WishingJirachi7 withdrew TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Cancer (Sableye)!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Cancer lost 43% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing Cancer is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 3
Piloswine, come back!
Go! Lapras!
The opposing Cancer's Sablenite is reacting to WishingJirachi7's Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Cancer has Mega Evolved into Mega Sableye!
The opposing Cancer used Recover!
The opposing Cancer restored its HP.
The sandstorm is raging.
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Cancer is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 4
WishingJirachi7 withdrew Cancer (Sableye-Mega)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Lapras used Surf!
It's not very effective... The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 18% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 5
Lapras, come back!
Go! Piloswine!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Toxic!
Piloswine was badly poisoned!
The sandstorm subsided.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 6
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Taunt!
Piloswine fell for the taunt!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
[Opposing 3 Heads Tho's Levitate!]
It doesn't affect the opposing 3 Heads Tho...
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 7
Piloswine, come back!
Go! Froslass!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Dark Pulse!
It's super effective! Froslass lost 100% of its health!
Froslass fainted!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
★CCPo6 Stun: niyce
Go! Glalie!
Turn 8
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Noire (Mandibuzz)!
Glalie's Glalitite is reacting to CCPo6 Stun's Mega Bracelet!
Glalie has Mega Evolved into Mega Glalie!
Glalie used Double-Edge!
It's super effective! The opposing Noire lost 95% of its health!
Glalie is hurt by the opposing Noire's Rocky Helmet!
Glalie is damaged by the recoil!
Turn 9
Glalie used Ice Shard!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing Noire lost 5% of its health!
The opposing Noire fainted!
WishingJirachi7 sent out TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
[Opposing TyranitarTube's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
Turn 10
Glalie used Explosion!
The opposing TyranitarTube lost 100% of its health!
Glalie fainted!
The opposing TyranitarTube fainted!
The sandstorm is raging.
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Go! Lapras!
Turn 11
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Toxic!
Lapras was badly poisoned!
Lapras used Frost Breath!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 77% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 12
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Dark Knight(Bisharp)!
Lapras used Frost Breath!
It's not very effective... A critical hit! The opposing Dark Knight lost 47% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 13
Lapras, come back!
Go! Avalugg!
The opposing Dark Knight used Swords Dance!
The opposing Dark Knight's Attack rose sharply!
The sandstorm is raging.
Avalugg is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 14
The opposing Dark Knight used Iron Head!
It's super effective! Avalugg lost 76.3% of its health!
The opposing Dark Knight is hurt by Avalugg's Rocky Helmet!
Avalugg used Earthquake!
It's super effective! The opposing Dark Knight lost 37% of its health!
The opposing Dark Knight fainted!
The sandstorm subsided.
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Turn 15
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Dark Pulse!
Avalugg lost 17.6% of its health!
Avalugg fainted!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Go! Piloswine!
Turn 16
Piloswine used Ice Shard!
It's super effective! The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 28% of its health!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho fainted!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
Turn 17
The opposing Save Unbound! usedEnergy Ball!
It's super effective! Piloswine lost 48.8% of its health!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Save Unbound! lost 82% of its health!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 18
WishingJirachi7 withdrew Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Cancer (Sableye-Mega)!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Cancer lost 31% of its health!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Piloswine fainted!
Go! Lapras!
Turn 19
★CCPo6 Stun: gg
★WishingJirachi7: gg
Lapras used Frost Breath!
A critical hit! The opposing Cancer lost 58% of its health!
The opposing Cancer used Recover!
The opposing Cancer restored its HP.
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 20
Lapras used Frost Breath!
A critical hit! The opposing Cancer lost 55% of its health!
The opposing Cancer fainted!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
Turn 21
The opposing Save Unbound! usedHyperspace Fury!
Lapras lost 39.4% of its health!
The opposing Save Unbound!'s Defense fell!
Lapras fainted!
Go! Kyurem (Kyurem-Black)!
[Kyurem's Teravolt!]
Kyurem is radiating a bursting aura!
Turn 22
Kyurem used Outrage!
The opposing Save Unbound! lost 18% of its health!
The opposing Save Unbound! fainted!
CCPo6 Stun won the battle!
WishingJirachi7 left.
CCPo6 Stun joined.
Format:
Monotype
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Baton Passer, can't pass Spe and other stats simultaneously
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Same Type Clause: Pokémon in a team must share a type
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
CCPo6 Stun's team:Glalie / Lapras / Piloswine / Froslass / Avalugg / Kyurem-Black
WishingJirachi7's team:Hoopa-Unbound / Tyranitar / Bisharp / Sableye / Hydreigon / Mandibuzz
(CCPo6 Stun set modchat to +)
CCPo6 Stun turned on modjoin.
Moderated chat was set to +!
Only users of rank + and higher can talk.
CCPo6 Stun made this room hidden.
★CCPo6 Stun: gl and hf
★WishingJirachi7: u2
Battle between WishingJirachi7 and CCPo6 Stun started!
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Go! Glalie!
Turn 1
Glalie, come back!
Go! Piloswine!
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
[Opposing TyranitarTube's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
The sandstorm is raging.
Turn 2
★WishingJirachi7: ..... r u fucking shitting me
★CCPo6 Stun: ?
WishingJirachi7 withdrew TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Cancer (Sableye)!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Cancer lost 43% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing Cancer is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 3
Piloswine, come back!
Go! Lapras!
The opposing Cancer's Sablenite is reacting to WishingJirachi7's Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Cancer has Mega Evolved into Mega Sableye!
The opposing Cancer used Recover!
The opposing Cancer restored its HP.
The sandstorm is raging.
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Cancer is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 4
WishingJirachi7 withdrew Cancer (Sableye-Mega)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Lapras used Surf!
It's not very effective... The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 18% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 5
Lapras, come back!
Go! Piloswine!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Toxic!
Piloswine was badly poisoned!
The sandstorm subsided.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 6
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Taunt!
Piloswine fell for the taunt!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
[Opposing 3 Heads Tho's Levitate!]
It doesn't affect the opposing 3 Heads Tho...
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 7
Piloswine, come back!
Go! Froslass!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Dark Pulse!
It's super effective! Froslass lost 100% of its health!
Froslass fainted!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
★CCPo6 Stun: niyce
Go! Glalie!
Turn 8
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Noire (Mandibuzz)!
Glalie's Glalitite is reacting to CCPo6 Stun's Mega Bracelet!
Glalie has Mega Evolved into Mega Glalie!
Glalie used Double-Edge!
It's super effective! The opposing Noire lost 95% of its health!
Glalie is hurt by the opposing Noire's Rocky Helmet!
Glalie is damaged by the recoil!
Turn 9
Glalie used Ice Shard!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing Noire lost 5% of its health!
The opposing Noire fainted!
WishingJirachi7 sent out TyranitarTube(Tyranitar)!
[Opposing TyranitarTube's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
Turn 10
Glalie used Explosion!
The opposing TyranitarTube lost 100% of its health!
Glalie fainted!
The opposing TyranitarTube fainted!
The sandstorm is raging.
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Go! Lapras!
Turn 11
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Toxic!
Lapras was badly poisoned!
Lapras used Frost Breath!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 77% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
The opposing 3 Heads Tho is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 12
WishingJirachi7 withdrew 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Dark Knight(Bisharp)!
Lapras used Frost Breath!
It's not very effective... A critical hit! The opposing Dark Knight lost 47% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
Lapras is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 13
Lapras, come back!
Go! Avalugg!
The opposing Dark Knight used Swords Dance!
The opposing Dark Knight's Attack rose sharply!
The sandstorm is raging.
Avalugg is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Turn 14
The opposing Dark Knight used Iron Head!
It's super effective! Avalugg lost 76.3% of its health!
The opposing Dark Knight is hurt by Avalugg's Rocky Helmet!
Avalugg used Earthquake!
It's super effective! The opposing Dark Knight lost 37% of its health!
The opposing Dark Knight fainted!
The sandstorm subsided.
WishingJirachi7 sent out 3 Heads Tho(Hydreigon)!
Turn 15
The opposing 3 Heads Tho used Dark Pulse!
Avalugg lost 17.6% of its health!
Avalugg fainted!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Go! Piloswine!
Turn 16
Piloswine used Ice Shard!
It's super effective! The opposing 3 Heads Tho lost 28% of its health!
The opposing 3 Heads Tho fainted!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
Turn 17
The opposing Save Unbound! usedEnergy Ball!
It's super effective! Piloswine lost 48.8% of its health!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Save Unbound! lost 82% of its health!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Turn 18
WishingJirachi7 withdrew Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Cancer (Sableye-Mega)!
Piloswine used Earthquake!
The opposing Cancer lost 31% of its health!
Piloswine was hurt by poison!
Piloswine fainted!
Go! Lapras!
Turn 19
★CCPo6 Stun: gg
★WishingJirachi7: gg
Lapras used Frost Breath!
A critical hit! The opposing Cancer lost 58% of its health!
The opposing Cancer used Recover!
The opposing Cancer restored its HP.
Lapras was hurt by poison!
Turn 20
Lapras used Frost Breath!
A critical hit! The opposing Cancer lost 55% of its health!
The opposing Cancer fainted!
Lapras was hurt by poison!
WishingJirachi7 sent out Save Unbound!(Hoopa-Unbound)!
Turn 21
The opposing Save Unbound! usedHyperspace Fury!
Lapras lost 39.4% of its health!
The opposing Save Unbound!'s Defense fell!
Lapras fainted!
Go! Kyurem (Kyurem-Black)!
[Kyurem's Teravolt!]
Kyurem is radiating a bursting aura!
Turn 22
Kyurem used Outrage!
The opposing Save Unbound! lost 18% of its health!
The opposing Save Unbound! fainted!
CCPo6 Stun won the battle!
WishingJirachi7 left.
CCPo6 Stun joined.
samjo ♥ joined.
Format:
Monotype
Rated battle
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Baton Passer, can't pass Spe and other stats simultaneously
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Same Type Clause: Pokémon in a team must share a type
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
CCPo6 Stun's team:Scolipede / Crobat / Venusaur / Roserade / Skuntank / Nidoqueen
samjo ♥'s team:Sableye / Tyranitar / Hoopa-Unbound / Bisharp / Crawdaunt / Mandibuzz
★CCPo6 Stun: gl and hf
Battle timer is now ON: inactive players will automatically lose when time's up. (requested by samjo ♥)
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Battle between CCPo6 Stun and samjo ♥ started!
Go! Scolipede!
samjo ♥ sent out Tyranitar!
[Opposing Tyranitar's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede used Megahorn!
It's super effective! The opposing Tyranitar lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Tyranitar fainted!
The sandstorm is raging.
Scolipede is buffeted by the sandstorm!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
samjo ♥ sent out Sableye!
Turn 2
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede, come back!
Go! Roserade!
The opposing Sableye's Sablenite is reacting to samjo ♥'s Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Sableye has Mega Evolved into Mega Sableye!
The opposing Sableye used Will-O-Wisp!
Roserade was burned!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 3
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing Sableye lost 85% of its health!
The opposing Sableye used Calm Mind!
The opposing Sableye's Special Attack rose! The opposing Sableye's Special Defense rose!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 4
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Erodanus joined.
★samjo ♥: zzz
samjo ♥ withdrew Sableye (Sableye-Mega)!
samjo ♥ sent out Brutus (Bisharp)!
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
The opposing Brutus lost 52% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 5
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade, come back!
Go! Nidoqueen!
The opposing Brutus used Knock Off!
A critical hit! Nidoqueen lost 55.8% of its health!
The opposing Brutus knocked off Nidoqueen's Life Orb!
The sandstorm subsided.
Turn 6
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Brutus (Bisharp)!
samjo ♥ sent out Sableye (Sableye-Mega)!
Nidoqueen used Earth Power!
The opposing Sableye lost 3% of its health!
The opposing Sableye fainted!
samjo ♥ sent out Crawdaunt!
Turn 7
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
The opposing Crawdaunt used Aqua Jet!
It's super effective! Nidoqueen lost 44.2% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Nidoqueen fainted!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Venusaur!
Turn 8
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Crawdaunt!
samjo ♥ sent out Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
Venusaur's Venusaurite is reacting to CCPo6 Stun's Mega Bracelet!
Venusaur has Mega Evolved into Mega Venusaur!
Venusaur used Petal Blizzard!
The opposing Hoopa lost 60% of its health!
Turn 9
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
CCPo6 Testing joined.
Venusaur, come back!
Go! Skuntank!
The opposing Hoopa used Hyperspace Hole!
It doesn't affect Skuntank...
Turn 10
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
samjo ♥ sent out Mandibuzz!
Skuntank, come back!
Go! Roserade!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 11
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
★CCPo6 Stun: welp
★CCPo6 Stun: i got that poison replay
★CCPo6 Stun: lmao
★samjo ♥: nice
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 48% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 12
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade, come back!
Go! Skuntank!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
But it failed!
Turn 13
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 25% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was poisoned!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
It's not very effective... Skuntank lost 22.2% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 14
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 26% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 15
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 29% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
Skuntank fainted!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Roserade!
Turn 16
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 51% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 17
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
teniis joined.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 51% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Roserade fainted!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Scolipede!
Turn 18
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Mandibuzz!
samjo ♥ sent out Brutus (Bisharp)!
Scolipede used Megahorn!
The opposing Brutus lost 48% of its health!
The opposing Brutus fainted!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
samjo ♥ sent out Mandibuzz!
Turn 19
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede used Megahorn!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 40% of its health!
Scolipede is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
Turn 20
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede, come back!
Go! Crobat!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 21
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat used Taunt!
The opposing Mandibuzz fell for the taunt!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
Crobat lost 26.6% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz is hurt by Crobat's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 22
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat used Brave Bird!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 21% of its health!
Crobat is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Crobat is damaged by the recoil!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
Crobat lost 24.1% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz is hurt by Crobat's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 23
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Mandibuzz!
samjo ♥ sent out Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
Crobat used Brave Bird!
The opposing Hoopa lost 40% of its health!
Crobat is damaged by the recoil!
The opposing Hoopa fainted!
★samjo ♥: oo nice
samjo ♥ sent out Crawdaunt!
Turn 24
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat, come back!
Go! Venusaur (Venusaur-Mega)!
The opposing Crawdaunt used Aqua Jet!
It's not very effective... Venusaur lost 14.1% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Turn 25
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
★samjo ♥: gg
The opposing Crawdaunt used Knock Off!
Venusaur lost 53.2% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Venusaur used Petal Blizzard!
It's super effective! The opposing Crawdaunt lost 71% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt fainted!
samjo ♥ forfeited.
CCPo6 Stun won the battle!
Ladder updating...
samjo ♥ left.
Player 2 disconnected and has a minute to reconnect!
CCPo6 Stun's rating: 1456 → 1476
(+20 for winning)
samjo ♥'s rating: 1457 → 1436
(-21 for losing)
★CCPo6 Stun: gg bro
samjo ♥ joined.
Format:
Monotype
Rated battle
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Baton Passer, can't pass Spe and other stats simultaneously
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Same Type Clause: Pokémon in a team must share a type
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
CCPo6 Stun's team:Scolipede / Crobat / Venusaur / Roserade / Skuntank / Nidoqueen
samjo ♥'s team:Sableye / Tyranitar / Hoopa-Unbound / Bisharp / Crawdaunt / Mandibuzz
★CCPo6 Stun: gl and hf
Battle timer is now ON: inactive players will automatically lose when time's up. (requested by samjo ♥)
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Battle between CCPo6 Stun and samjo ♥ started!
Go! Scolipede!
samjo ♥ sent out Tyranitar!
[Opposing Tyranitar's Sand Stream!]
A sandstorm kicked up!
Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede used Megahorn!
It's super effective! The opposing Tyranitar lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Tyranitar fainted!
The sandstorm is raging.
Scolipede is buffeted by the sandstorm!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
samjo ♥ sent out Sableye!
Turn 2
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede, come back!
Go! Roserade!
The opposing Sableye's Sablenite is reacting to samjo ♥'s Mega Bracelet!
The opposing Sableye has Mega Evolved into Mega Sableye!
The opposing Sableye used Will-O-Wisp!
Roserade was burned!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 3
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! A critical hit! The opposing Sableye lost 85% of its health!
The opposing Sableye used Calm Mind!
The opposing Sableye's Special Attack rose! The opposing Sableye's Special Defense rose!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Sableye is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 4
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Erodanus joined.
★samjo ♥: zzz
samjo ♥ withdrew Sableye (Sableye-Mega)!
samjo ♥ sent out Brutus (Bisharp)!
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
The opposing Brutus lost 52% of its health!
The sandstorm is raging.
Roserade is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 5
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade, come back!
Go! Nidoqueen!
The opposing Brutus used Knock Off!
A critical hit! Nidoqueen lost 55.8% of its health!
The opposing Brutus knocked off Nidoqueen's Life Orb!
The sandstorm subsided.
Turn 6
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Brutus (Bisharp)!
samjo ♥ sent out Sableye (Sableye-Mega)!
Nidoqueen used Earth Power!
The opposing Sableye lost 3% of its health!
The opposing Sableye fainted!
samjo ♥ sent out Crawdaunt!
Turn 7
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
The opposing Crawdaunt used Aqua Jet!
It's super effective! Nidoqueen lost 44.2% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Nidoqueen fainted!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Venusaur!
Turn 8
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Crawdaunt!
samjo ♥ sent out Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
Venusaur's Venusaurite is reacting to CCPo6 Stun's Mega Bracelet!
Venusaur has Mega Evolved into Mega Venusaur!
Venusaur used Petal Blizzard!
The opposing Hoopa lost 60% of its health!
Turn 9
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
CCPo6 Testing joined.
Venusaur, come back!
Go! Skuntank!
The opposing Hoopa used Hyperspace Hole!
It doesn't affect Skuntank...
Turn 10
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
samjo ♥ sent out Mandibuzz!
Skuntank, come back!
Go! Roserade!
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 11
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
★CCPo6 Stun: welp
★CCPo6 Stun: i got that poison replay
★CCPo6 Stun: lmao
★samjo ♥: nice
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 48% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
Turn 12
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade, come back!
Go! Skuntank!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
But it failed!
Turn 13
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 25% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was poisoned!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
It's not very effective... Skuntank lost 22.2% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 14
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 26% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 15
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Skuntank used Poison Jab!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 29% of its health!
Skuntank is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Skuntank lost some of its HP!
Skuntank fainted!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Roserade!
Turn 16
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 51% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 17
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
teniis joined.
Roserade used Dazzling Gleam!
It's super effective! The opposing Mandibuzz lost 51% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
Roserade was hurt by its burn!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Roserade fainted!
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Go! Scolipede!
Turn 18
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Mandibuzz!
samjo ♥ sent out Brutus (Bisharp)!
Scolipede used Megahorn!
The opposing Brutus lost 48% of its health!
The opposing Brutus fainted!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
samjo ♥ sent out Mandibuzz!
Turn 19
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede used Megahorn!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 40% of its health!
Scolipede is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
[Scolipede's Speed Boost!]
Scolipede's Speed rose!
Turn 20
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Scolipede, come back!
Go! Crobat!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Roost!
The opposing Mandibuzz restored its HP.
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 21
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat used Taunt!
The opposing Mandibuzz fell for the taunt!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
Crobat lost 26.6% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz is hurt by Crobat's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 22
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat used Brave Bird!
The opposing Mandibuzz lost 21% of its health!
Crobat is hurt by the opposing Mandibuzz's Rocky Helmet!
Crobat is damaged by the recoil!
The opposing Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
Crobat lost 24.1% of its health!
The opposing Mandibuzz is hurt by Crobat's Rocky Helmet!
The opposing Mandibuzz was hurt by poison!
Turn 23
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
samjo ♥ withdrew Mandibuzz!
samjo ♥ sent out Hoopa (Hoopa-Unbound)!
Crobat used Brave Bird!
The opposing Hoopa lost 40% of its health!
Crobat is damaged by the recoil!
The opposing Hoopa fainted!
★samjo ♥: oo nice
samjo ♥ sent out Crawdaunt!
Turn 24
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
Crobat, come back!
Go! Venusaur (Venusaur-Mega)!
The opposing Crawdaunt used Aqua Jet!
It's not very effective... Venusaur lost 14.1% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Turn 25
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
★samjo ♥: gg
The opposing Crawdaunt used Knock Off!
Venusaur lost 53.2% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt lost some of its HP!
Venusaur used Petal Blizzard!
It's super effective! The opposing Crawdaunt lost 71% of its health!
The opposing Crawdaunt fainted!
samjo ♥ forfeited.
CCPo6 Stun won the battle!
Ladder updating...
samjo ♥ left.
Player 2 disconnected and has a minute to reconnect!
CCPo6 Stun's rating: 1456 → 1476
(+20 for winning)
samjo ♥'s rating: 1457 → 1436
(-21 for losing)
★CCPo6 Stun: gg bro
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While I personally don't think Hoopa-U should be banned, showing one replay of Ice beating it doesn't mean the type doesn't genuinely struggle with it. Sure, its beatable, just like all poor matchups are beatable with good play. You should probably give more sound evidence than a singular replay for your case.
Well looking at it, my 2 options were Piloswine, or save Kyurem late game for the sweep. The main things I struggled against were Hydreigon and Sableye that match. Hoopa was actually on the back seat and wasn't as big as a threat and it was imagined to be, so that 1 replay in itself does disprove that theory at least. I agree with you though, I will go ahead and get some more replays just in case, and I'll do a couple other types as well.
This is a theorycraft for a poison v psychic match up. Let me set the scenario, you have a LO Timid Nidoking and a Scarf Adamant Drapion/Scarf Gengar. Im going to go at this with what the poison player can do in response to common hoopa sets on psychic (scarf,band/specs, or sub). when your opponent sends in Hoopa, sac something on your team to get a feel of what set it is, knowing is key to taking that thing down. Afterwards send in the appropriate pokemon in response. If it is choiced Scarf Drapion can go pursuit or crunch, use your own discretion here. If its is sub, send in Nidoking instead, its naturally faster and it'll break the sub, thereby allowing Drapion to once again be switched in. Try it out, works wonders.
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The tiering philosophy, which the entire initial Mono council and OM leaders agreed to, clearly describes how Aegislash is to be approached.
We followed this rule during the Sablenite suspect and it went just fine. I think the same logic extends here. If members of the mono community want to open a dialog on the tiering philosophy they can PM the council, as has been the case for the past
edit: 6 months ago was the new policy, removing discussion of the tiering philosophy came a couple months later.
I am just wondering how Hoopa-Unbound is so good.
First of all, it does not straight out 6-0 certain types. It might come in and revenge a variety of different mons but there is literally no reason why someone should make a team that Hoopa is capable of 6-0ing unless they are just completely unaware of the current metagame. That said, I do still think Hoopa is very capable of breaking down many weakened teams after checks and counters have been taken down. Many players find the support Hoopa gets to be incredibly frustrating. With the support psychic can offer with the omnipresent Slowbro/Mew core and the support dark can offer with Mega Sableye/Mandibuzz/Tyranitar teams can usually wear down the opposing checks and counters to Hoopa which is honestly what I find most frustrating especially if the opposing psychic/dark team has hazards up.
Don't have much more to say at the moment but I do think that these cores should find a minor nerf is some way but I have no idea how that would work. Also if I'm doing something wrong please notify me since this is my first post.
First of all, it does not straight out 6-0 certain types. It might come in and revenge a variety of different mons but there is literally no reason why someone should make a team that Hoopa is capable of 6-0ing unless they are just completely unaware of the current metagame. That said, I do still think Hoopa is very capable of breaking down many weakened teams after checks and counters have been taken down. Many players find the support Hoopa gets to be incredibly frustrating. With the support psychic can offer with the omnipresent Slowbro/Mew core and the support dark can offer with Mega Sableye/Mandibuzz/Tyranitar teams can usually wear down the opposing checks and counters to Hoopa which is honestly what I find most frustrating especially if the opposing psychic/dark team has hazards up.
Don't have much more to say at the moment but I do think that these cores should find a minor nerf is some way but I have no idea how that would work. Also if I'm doing something wrong please notify me since this is my first post.
First of all Stunfisk the Great, you're playing only aganist dark (you have to play vs psychic too if you want to convice me). Also, play me or juleocesar instead of one who may be biased or doesnt have a great team (juleo is better than me so yeah).
I can get Psychic ones as well. And how the hell were they being biased, not sure what you mean by that (plus the poison 1 was a ladder match).
After reading this through this thread i felt like i had to give my opinions on this matter. I have always looked at these bans with a one simple rule: If a Pokemon is broken or over centralizing the meta it should be banned. You can’t have arguments such as; ”If we ban pokemon A, type B won’t survive”. Grass was a great type at one point in Monotype’s history, and through certain ban its now a bottom tier type. If Hoopa would get banned Dark would still be a Amazing type. If you don’t believe me you can look at Wyn’s and Clearly’s success in the ladder in the Pre-Hoopa Greninja Ban era. So if something is broken, it needs to go.
Now when we have that cleared up we can get to my actual point, Is hoopa broken? In my opinion it isnt. Its slow, Frail and can get revenge killed pretty easily. Sure Ghost vs Psychic is bit sad but i dont think Hoopa-U is broken. BUT i think theres something that should be looked at. Even though i dont think Hoopa-U is not broken it might be part of something broken.
In my opinion there should be something done with the Psychic’s Offensive Core. The core of Hoopa-U, Victini and M-Gardevoir in my opinion could be so strong that calling it broken isn’t something totally insane. I think a nerf for this core should be atleast consired. Im not going to go on full detail why i think this core is so broken in this thread since its meant for the Hoopa-U discussion. I know that the council doesnt want to do Type-Only bans, but in my opinion in this situtation it might be needed.
Conclusion: Hoopa-U isn’t broken, Psychic’s Offensive Core is.
Now when we have that cleared up we can get to my actual point, Is hoopa broken? In my opinion it isnt. Its slow, Frail and can get revenge killed pretty easily. Sure Ghost vs Psychic is bit sad but i dont think Hoopa-U is broken. BUT i think theres something that should be looked at. Even though i dont think Hoopa-U is not broken it might be part of something broken.
In my opinion there should be something done with the Psychic’s Offensive Core. The core of Hoopa-U, Victini and M-Gardevoir in my opinion could be so strong that calling it broken isn’t something totally insane. I think a nerf for this core should be atleast consired. Im not going to go on full detail why i think this core is so broken in this thread since its meant for the Hoopa-U discussion. I know that the council doesnt want to do Type-Only bans, but in my opinion in this situtation it might be needed.
Conclusion: Hoopa-U isn’t broken, Psychic’s Offensive Core is.
That's exactly why I want to ban, because the core you mentioned (and if you add Mega-Medicham/Gallade and use scarf Gardevoir) is quite insane. Of course then you can add in walls like Slowbro/Mew and that's why I feel like we need to ban a part of psychic. And banning Hoopa-U would nerf that core (not exactly destroy it), and thats why I'm willing to sacrifice Hoopa-U on dark to ban it on Psychic.
I understand everyone's view in the fact why they don't want to ban Hoopa-U. Some are biased (hopefully most aren't), but some have good reasons. To hoenest's point, yes Hoopa-U doesn't 6-0 any type but maybe ghost, but it can dent walls to let other parts of this Psychic Offensive Core sweep. Example: Heatran stops both Gardevoir and Victini, however Hoopa-U can run the coverage (like Drain Punch) and dent the wall, therefore letting something (in the case of steel it would be Victini) sweep.
To your point Stunfisk The Great, it is true that Hoopa-U doesn't ruin any of those matchups...completely. It can still dent Avalugg enough to let Victini sweep, and it can also destroy Poison with the right team support (be careful with pursuit being an example).
Dark also doesn't suffer completely. It still has good offense with Bisharp/Ttar/Crawdaunt/Hydreigon/Weavile etc. Yes it may lose coverage but dark will easily be able to adapt (Hydreigon has more than enough coverage).
I feel like most people here think we're trying to ban Hoopa-U from dark, but that's not where its broken. On Psychic it doesn't need to run scarf or some of its coverage moves.
The question: Is "nerfing" dark bad enough to not make you not want to nerf Psychic's (overpowered) Offensive Core?
Replays of this core will be shown below:
~Nothing quite yet~
Dark also doesn't suffer completely. It still has good offense with Bisharp/Ttar/Crawdaunt/Hydreigon/Weavile etc. Yes it may lose coverage but dark will easily be able to adapt (Hydreigon has more than enough coverage). I feel like most people here think we're trying to ban Hoopa-U from dark said:
Actually Dark does suffer completely. Hydreigon as a replacement special attacker is not enough to help boost up dark's reputation of struggling against other types. When Greninja was banned, dark was immensely struggling vs fighting with terrakion and sub calm mind keldeo as they both break dark, struggled with fairy where the point that it was always a one sided match up (no bisharp isnt enough), even mega gardevoir on psychic was stupidly feared, and dark as a type didnt shine and was normally neglected. Hydreigon cant give that beneficial boost that dark was craving and cant help with matchups vs types (No flash cannon hydreigon isnt a replaceable fairy check as its too weak without life orb). Overall i can see dark fading away in viability as it wont have that amazing coverage and protection that balanced out a struggling type.
Also on the part where you say "Psychics overpowered offensive core", before hoopa this was always still a thing, Mega gar, victini, slowbro, bam one of the best cores in the game. Hoopa pushed it too limits far better than what psychic had in the first place giving extra versatility and coverage. It made a previous core a strong and feared team that would destroy anything in its path. If type bans was still a thing, i would gladly see a hoopa u ban for psychic, but what it has come too with nerfing dark to the point of having a point of struggle again, i dont see this benefiting the meta. An example with this would be mega sab, it would be nice to remove it off the tough dark core, but letting ghost struggle wasnt worth it. Dark will fall, while psychic will just always retain its greatness, thats not close to benefiting anything.
In all honestly, Hoopa-u isnt worth banning to cripple dark and make psychic, an already amazing type, not even flinch with power loss. We have adapted to the pokemon for several months now, and my opinion is to keep hoopa-u.
Once again another person that's not willing to sacrifice dark. Anyway I assume everyone here has laddered and is close to making read because if you're gonna sit here and think we want to keep hoopa, that's not happening.
Most people I've met who have MS3 (juleo shady bit) they all want hoopa to be banned. Even though it looks like on this forum that more people don't wanna ban hoopa (only ppl who really do are me and juleo), I feel like all you guys are just here trying to find a way to keep hoopa when you really should be laddering.
Now everyone here says we would lose to coverage of beating fairy and fighting... Dark is supposed to lose to those types. Grass is supposed to lose to fire, if let's say we in unban skymin with earth power it may help vs fire. But that's just one of grass's bad match ups. You're just gonna have to deal with an auto loss. And currently I see dark vs fairy and fighting around 72% in fairy/fighting a favor, so even with hoopa I don't see dark able to win that much.
Tip: go ladder come back and talk when you've met the reqs.
Oh and I forgot to add this but sometimes you'll just have to sacrifice a type, in this case dark. If anyone cared about ice (not many do) and grass, we would unban skymin and kyurem white. Oh and yeah flying and dragon are still top types in mono even when they are banned so if we thought carefully about low tier types like ice and grass, we could make them half decent again. Same with hoopa were its just really good on psychic and maybe dark needs it, but you'll just have to make that sacrifice.
Please don't discourage people from discussing a perfectly relevant topic. And I recommend stepping down off of your high horse when it comes to getting reqs. Plenty of people ladder silently on an unrecognizable alt so they won't be bothered, which means there's no way of judging what the opinion of the majority is until the voting begins.
Let everyone else worry about their own reqs. You worry about yourself.
I don't have a dog in this since i've really never cared for Hoopa, but there are some parts of your argument that are just ridiculous. The notion of unbanning Shaymin-Sky just so you can make grass viable is just crazy. If you're talking about hurting the tier, unbanning a base 127 speed serene grace flincher would certainly hurt the tier.
Now saying that just because a type has a bad matchup it should just consign itself to losing is a bad argument. That is the equivalent of saying poison players should lose to psychic or electric players should lose to ground. Just because you have a bad type matchup you should still be viable. Not all types can say they have a decent shot at beating their bad matchups but that is just the way it is. Everyone wants the types to be balanced, it's just never going to happen. Gamefreak never designed that in mind, and with Sun/Moon coming out at the end of the year, we are on the clock before we reach square 1 again. The current meta is as balanced as its going to get.
I usually don't contribute to forums because I'm super lazy, but the quality of these posts made me.
So... Hoopa U. Amazing wallbreaker, strong coverage, weak phys def, bad speed. On Dark, best to run with scarf. On Psychic, best to run with a more offensive item like Specs, Band, or LOrb.
Contrary to some above posts, Hoopa-U is actually pretty predictable. Dark always runs a moveset like Hyperspace Fury / Hyperspace Hole / Gunk Shot / Energy ball or Focus Blast, so no surprise there. Psychic, however, is a bit less predictable. You can expect the dual stab coverage and a fighting move but the last move has a bit of diversity, depending on the team. I've seen sub, thunderbolt (for mandibuzz generally), or HP Fire. Trust me, Hoopa-U's predictability is WAY higher than stuff like greninja or genesect. Those two could literally run any item and any move and damage nearly every type. Now, I'm not saying it's not broken at all (on psychic teams it is pretty insane) but I'm just shutting down that argument for now.
Second of all,
Another thing is your argument saying it does not matter if dark loses hoopa-u that originally helped its match-up, they were originally supposed to lose to fairy and fighting! That's a really bad way of defending your case because it's like you actually want mono to be more match-up reliant. "A type that originally had disadvantage vs its weaknesses now has a shot of beating it, who cares, ban it!" Isn't the whole point of a suspect to make the tier more balanced and less match-up reliant??? You talking about a type needing to be sacrificed really makes no sense. Grass, mind you, does in fact have a chance vs fire and skymin just helped that out. There are hardly any actual auto-losses in mono, most disadvantages can be beaten.
"If anyone cared about ice (not many do) and grass, we would unban skymin and kyurem white." Yeah, I'm not even gonna comment on this one, just reread it yourself. Hoopa U compared with Skymin and KyuW in the tier is like comparing Pawniard and Bisharp in mono.
Clarifying that all I'm doing is shutting down his argument because they're weak and I hate writing smogessays
Personal tip: "go ladder come back and talk when you've met the reqs."
So... Hoopa U. Amazing wallbreaker, strong coverage, weak phys def, bad speed. On Dark, best to run with scarf. On Psychic, best to run with a more offensive item like Specs, Band, or LOrb.
Contrary to some above posts, Hoopa-U is actually pretty predictable. Dark always runs a moveset like Hyperspace Fury / Hyperspace Hole / Gunk Shot / Energy ball or Focus Blast, so no surprise there. Psychic, however, is a bit less predictable. You can expect the dual stab coverage and a fighting move but the last move has a bit of diversity, depending on the team. I've seen sub, thunderbolt (for mandibuzz generally), or HP Fire. Trust me, Hoopa-U's predictability is WAY higher than stuff like greninja or genesect. Those two could literally run any item and any move and damage nearly every type. Now, I'm not saying it's not broken at all (on psychic teams it is pretty insane) but I'm just shutting down that argument for now.
Second of all,
This is by far the WORST argument I've seen on this thread. Everything I believe is bad is highlighted (there are a lot of highlights :P). "I met some people who hate hoopa u just because it puts in work vs their team, that accounts for every good players' opinion!" Yeah, no. You would have been better off having every single player that thinks hoopa is broken post about it (lol). You need to stop assuming that the entire community agrees with you that hoopa is broken by not saying ".. sit here and think we want to keep hoopa.."
Another thing is your argument saying it does not matter if dark loses hoopa-u that originally helped its match-up, they were originally supposed to lose to fairy and fighting! That's a really bad way of defending your case because it's like you actually want mono to be more match-up reliant. "A type that originally had disadvantage vs its weaknesses now has a shot of beating it, who cares, ban it!" Isn't the whole point of a suspect to make the tier more balanced and less match-up reliant??? You talking about a type needing to be sacrificed really makes no sense. Grass, mind you, does in fact have a chance vs fire and skymin just helped that out. There are hardly any actual auto-losses in mono, most disadvantages can be beaten.
"If anyone cared about ice (not many do) and grass, we would unban skymin and kyurem white." Yeah, I'm not even gonna comment on this one, just reread it yourself. Hoopa U compared with Skymin and KyuW in the tier is like comparing Pawniard and Bisharp in mono.
Clarifying that all I'm doing is shutting down his argument because they're weak and I hate writing smogessays
Personal tip: "go ladder come back and talk when you've met the reqs."
Greninja Items on Water:
lifeorb76.6%
choicescarf5.9%
focussash5.4%
choiceband4.3%
choicescarf5.9%
focussash5.4%
choiceband4.3%
icebeam72.7%
gunkshot57.0%
darkpulse44.7%
extrasensory38.3%
shadowsneak25.1%
hiddenpowerfire22.9%
grassknot20.7%
hydropump17.7%
uturn17.0%
lowkick14.7%
scald13.4%
surf13.1%
rockslide12.9%
gunkshot57.0%
darkpulse44.7%
extrasensory38.3%
shadowsneak25.1%
hiddenpowerfire22.9%
grassknot20.7%
hydropump17.7%
uturn17.0%
lowkick14.7%
scald13.4%
surf13.1%
rockslide12.9%
lifeorb53.8%
choicescarf26.9%
choicespecs9.3%
focussash3.2%
choicescarf26.9%
choicespecs9.3%
focussash3.2%
icebeam87.9%
extrasensory61.4%
grassknot41.2%
hydropump40.3%
gunkshot39.4%
surf30.5%
darkpulse25.6%
hiddenpowerfire13.6%
shadowsneak12.7%
extrasensory61.4%
grassknot41.2%
hydropump40.3%
gunkshot39.4%
surf30.5%
darkpulse25.6%
hiddenpowerfire13.6%
shadowsneak12.7%
Hoopa's Item on psychic:
choicescarf45.0%
lifeorb20.3%
leftovers11.2%
choiceband9.2%
assaultvest8.9%
lifeorb20.3%
leftovers11.2%
choiceband9.2%
assaultvest8.9%
hyperspacefury73.6%
drainpunch69.9%
gunkshot42.5%
darkpulse24.6%
hyperspacehole21.6%
firepunch20.0%
thunderbolt19.8%
energyball19.0%
substitute17.7%
icepunch13.7%
drainpunch69.9%
gunkshot42.5%
darkpulse24.6%
hyperspacehole21.6%
firepunch20.0%
thunderbolt19.8%
energyball19.0%
substitute17.7%
icepunch13.7%
Genesect's Items:
choicescarf56.5%
choiceband16.4%
dousedrive9.2%
expertbelt5.6%
lifeorb4.6%
choicespecs3.7%
choiceband16.4%
dousedrive9.2%
expertbelt5.6%
lifeorb4.6%
choicespecs3.7%
icebeam77.5%
uturn68.9%
flamethrower62.3%
thunderbolt41.6%
ironhead38.0%
flashcannon25.6%
extremespeed24.6%
bugbuzz17.3%
blazekick11.5%
uturn68.9%
flamethrower62.3%
thunderbolt41.6%
ironhead38.0%
flashcannon25.6%
extremespeed24.6%
bugbuzz17.3%
blazekick11.5%
I don't see the difference Lax, englighten me more please.
For the Skymin/Kyu-W analogy, heres what I have to say.
Bisharp directly outclasses Pawniard, aka there's next to no point of using Pawniard.
Even with Skymin and Kyu-W, Grass & Ice were still two of the three bottom used types.
First of all, Skymin has no predictability what so ever with three of its moves used more than 90% of the time:
airslash99.9%
earthpower94.5%
seedflare92.5%
hiddenpowerice35.9%
hiddenpowerfire19.9%
substitute18.1%
earthpower94.5%
seedflare92.5%
hiddenpowerice35.9%
hiddenpowerfire19.9%
substitute18.1%
choicescarf45.6%
leftovers22.0%
lifeorb14.2%
choicespecs6.5%
focussash4.6%
leftovers22.0%
lifeorb14.2%
choicespecs6.5%
focussash4.6%
Kyurem-White is almost just as predictable:
fusionflare96.6%
icebeam78.5%
earthpower78.3%
dracometeor74.6%
blizzard18.6%
dragonpulse17.6%
psychic16.3%
icebeam78.5%
earthpower78.3%
dracometeor74.6%
blizzard18.6%
dragonpulse17.6%
psychic16.3%
choicescarf67.8%
choicespecs7.5%
assaultvest6.2%
lifeorb5.9%
choicespecs7.5%
assaultvest6.2%
lifeorb5.9%
Explain how Hoopa-U:Skymin/Kyu:b is Pawniard:Bisharp.
Just Explain.
ban hoopa
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Nice post that takes up 2 screens btw.
Kyurem-White literally 6-0's steel and bug with rocks up. It also has amazing coverage that is able to hit any type and has 170 base spatk.
Shaymin-Sky is incredibly fast and strong, has access to 60% flinch and amazing 120 power grass stab with an 80% chance to drop the opp's spdef. Has access to earth power allowing it to also run hp fire for ultimate coverage. Literally a faster better togekiss with more coverage.
Hoopa-U on the other hand loses to most scarfed mons and dies easily to priority due to its extremely frail defenses. It is not capable of completely 6-0'ing a type either. idk about you but I think that's a huge difference.
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