Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

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With that being said, I've noticed one of the most stupid and annoying traits on some of the past posts. People are complaining about having to run a check for something. God did you really have to make an adjustment to your team to meet the meta's new standards?I'm so sorry man!
It depends, really. Obviously if you need to bring something in order to check something, then this is understandable. But take for example Landorus-I in OU. Its only two checks were Mega-Latias and Cresellia. This required you to either a) Use up your mega spot for this single Pokemon (while other megas could be considered better for most teams), or b), Bring a Pokemon from from a different tier just to take this single Pokemon on. Do you really think people really want to bring Cresselia or Mega Latias on their teams for a single Pokemon? Cresselia is easily outclassed by other OU walls (hence why it's in UU), and Mega Latias (while good) forces you to use up your mega slot.

But, as you said, in some cases this argument simply does not work. For example, if a Pokemon forced you to use either Mega-Metagross, Chansey, or Heatran on your team, then this is different because those three Pokemon actually have their usage outside of being checks for Pokemon.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
It depends, really. Obviously if you need to bring something in order to check something, then this is understandable. But take for example Landorus-I in OU. Its only two checks were Mega-Latias and Cresellia. This required you to either a) Use up your mega spot for this single Pokemon (while other megas could be considered better for most teams), or b), Bring a Pokemon from from a different tier just to take this single Pokemon on. Do you really think people really want to bring Cresselia or Mega Latias on their teams for a single Pokemon? Cresselia is easily outclassed by other OU walls (hence why it's in UU), and Mega Latias (while good) forces you to use up your mega slot.

But, as you said, in some cases this argument simply does not work. For example, if a Pokemon forced you to use either Mega-Metagross, Chansey, or Heatran on your team, then this is different because those three Pokemon actually have their usage outside of being checks for Pokemon.
You are wrong. Lando's only counters are those two. It had tons of checks and was quite slow without a rock polish boost. When people complain about needing checks, such as the stupid ou voters who banished lando, they clearly don't know what is ban worthy. But something like skymin had no checks because it could flinch you to death.
 
You are wrong. Lando's only counters are those two. It had tons of checks and was quite slow without a rock polish boost. When people complain about needing checks, such as the stupid ou voters who banished lando, they clearly don't know what is ban worthy. But something like skymin had no checks because it could flinch you to death.
A counter is something that flat out does just that it stops it and it in turn can't do much to it. Like heatran with talonflame. A check is a bit different like a it stops it but doesn't shut it down in full. Skymin again isn't banned for air slash if that's the case tkiss would be as well seed flare made most things alot more manageable and does not even allow chansey to switch in for free to to the spdf drops.
 

Freeroamer

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You have to be realistic when trying to apply these definitions to Monotype. While having no switchins to something is undoubtedly a good argument in OU where within reason you have almost every option available to you outside of a select ~50 pokemon, you have to consider that bound by the limitations on which we can pick our teams from, in practice we're never going to have switchins to stuff like Keldeo on Steel or Diancie on Fire. That doesn't make something necessarily broken, as the more important thing is do they blow through multiple Monotype teams such that their very presence is centralizing the metagame in such a way that carrying this pokemon gives you an assured win or as good as.

The arguing about OU bans in the first place is unnecessary, even more so generalising and calling everyone who voted ban on lando "stupid". I was one of those apparently "stupid" people and I don't regret my vote one bit, but I've never thought Lando-i is broken here, and that's my honest opinion. I believe on Ground it plays a necessary but healthy role, and on Flying while it's undoubtedly a fantastic mon, it's kinda forced to run SR sets or your team will become kinda redundant with Skarm forced to run it when you'd rather Defog, or you having to run Gliscor and Lando on the same team. Top threat no doubt, but not a broken one.
 
Agree with Freeroamer's post. The Pokemon themselves aren't broken but they do make many Monotype matches more unbalanced than they need to. While laddering with a Fairy team on an alt, I came upon two fire teams (and I was high in the ladder), both easily torn apart by Mega-Diancie.
 
What are those logs of tho?I never said it was abt Mega Diancie did I.I was talking abt how Shuckle should be banned and I won't listen to reason!
 

Entei

fly
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Apologies for the irrelevancy of the rest of that chat, but for the sake of not being suspected of fabricating logs, I screened the entire thing.
 
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Oh yeah i was talking abt that at first.But when my good friend Crashy brought up Shuckle,I was reminded of how broken Shuckle really is!
 

Freeroamer

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Result would've been much the same if someone had brought Scarf Terrakion or Garchomp, in fact even worse because Victini can't even outspeed those! You could run ScarfTran to help deal with Diancie if you feel it's that common and that much of an autowin, yet you don't so I'm not really sure what that replay proves...
 
Lol? You really think a ScarfTran is gonna come in to a Earth Power from a Mega Diancie?

On Scarf Terrakion/Garchomp,Atleast theres a way to play around them as they're locked into a move.But with Mega Diancie's amazing Speed and Even better offenses,You can't really play around it.And ScarfTran?Really?It has a WHOOPING 15% usage.But let's forget about usage.I'm practically being forced to run a Choice Scarf on a defensive mon for one pokemon.Think about that one for a few minutes...

And I was joking about the shuckle thing btw
 
Result would've been much the same if someone had brought Scarf Terrakion or Garchomp, in fact even worse because Victini can't even outspeed those! You could run ScarfTran to help deal with Diancie if you feel it's that common and that much of an autowin, yet you don't so I'm not really sure what that replay proves...
Heatran can only stop certain sets, I for one use a Special Variant of Diancie with Ancient Power, you won't believe how often I get the +1 boost in all stats whenever I use it. Sure, it can stop it, but most of the time you need to make sure it's always out when Diancie is out.

I think it's a bit redundant when a single Pokemon on a team can completely sweep another team without any boosts in attack (and remember, Diancie can still get that +1 in all stats with Ancient Power and +1 in Defense with Diamond Storm, can be Baton Passed to, etc). Kinda similar to how Talonflame was able to nearly sweep Grass and Fighting monos, except this case is a bit more extreme because Fire has almost nothing to stop Diancie bar Scarfed Heatran. At least Grass had Cradily and Fighting had Terrakion for Talonflame.

Another thing: Not that it has anything to do with Diancie, but Fairy type attacks are not very effective agaisnt Fire types, so technically Fairy is at a slight disadvantage against Fire from the get-go.
 

Entei

fly
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Lol? You really think a ScarfTran is gonna come in to a Earth Power from a Mega Diancie?

On Scarf Terrakion/Garchomp,Atleast theres a way to play around them as they're locked into a move.But with Mega Diancie's amazing Speed and Even better offenses,You can't really play around it.And ScarfTran?Really?It has a WHOOPING 15% usage.But let's forget about usage.I'm practically being forced to run a Choice Scarf on a defensive mon for one pokemon.Think about that one for a few minutes...

And I was joking about the shuckle thing btw
If you're going to try to be taken seriously please stop misleading everyone.

I think your issue is you are not understanding how you are the only person to come on in with this request to ban a Mega from an average type just because it sweeps your team.

I agree it gives Fire a VERY hard time, but it is NOT broken, it is NOT unhealthy to the meta, did you even see its HP & Def/SpD?

If you keep going with this, AT LEAST make it a longer, more formal, more educated post.
As long as you want to be taken seriously, you should consider not doing these kinds of things: "And I was joking about the 'x' thing btw"
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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How terrible can something be that it prevents you getting 6-0d from the lead spot? Can someone genuinely explain to me, with solid reasoning why Scarftran doesn't work on Fire?
 
You have to be realistic when trying to apply these definitions to Monotype. While having no switchins to something is undoubtedly a good argument in OU where within reason you have almost every option available to you outside of a select ~50 pokemon, you have to consider that bound by the limitations on which we can pick our teams from, in practice we're never going to have switchins to stuff like Keldeo on Steel or Diancie on Fire. That doesn't make something necessarily broken, as the more important thing is do they blow through multiple Monotype teams such that their very presence is centralizing the metagame in such a way that carrying this pokemon gives you an assured win or as good as.

The arguing about OU bans in the first place is unnecessary, even more so generalising and calling everyone who voted ban on lando "stupid". I was one of those apparently "stupid" people and I don't regret my vote one bit, but I've never thought Lando-i is broken here, and that's my honest opinion. I believe on Ground it plays a necessary but healthy role, and on Flying while it's undoubtedly a fantastic mon, it's kinda forced to run SR sets or your team will become kinda redundant with Skarm forced to run it when you'd rather Defog, or you having to run Gliscor and Lando on the same team. Top threat no doubt, but not a broken one.
I feel what Freeroamer just said is pretty relevant right now :I

I doubt anyone can deny that Mega Diancie crushes fire, almost by itself in most cases, but, as Freeroamer said, that doesn't necessarily make it broken. You need to actually look at other types (other than fire :v) to actually determine if something is "broken". If we just look at individual types like this, of course certain Pokemon would get the ban, super huge ban list, blah blah. You need to actually look at how it (in this case, mega diancie) actually affects multiple types. I'm definitely biased, but I really don't see it as broken or overpowered at all.
 

all falls down

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Zarif said:
Lol? You really think a ScarfTran is gonna come in to a Earth Power from a Mega Diancie?

On Scarf Terrakion/Garchomp,Atleast theres a way to play around them as they're locked into a move.But with Mega Diancie's amazing Speed and Even better offenses,You can't really play around it.And ScarfTran?Really?It has a WHOOPING 15% usage.But let's forget about usage.I'm practically being forced to run a Choice Scarf on a defensive mon for one pokemon.Think about that one for a few minutes...
Scarf tran is actually great on fire I use it on all my fire teams, not only does it revenge kill Diancie, but it actually puts in a lot of work vs both Rock and Fairy along with revenge killing a lot of other threats. Nobody's telling you to bring it in on Diancie, but you bring it in to revenge kill, and they have no switch ins to it (Similar to Diancie and your fire team). Usage is irrelevant. Heatran isn't only a "defensive mon", it has 130 SpA and its speed is just begging for a scarf.

To respond to your last line I'll give you a recent quote:

balto said:
People are complaining about having to run a check for something. God did you really have to make an adjustment to your team to meet the meta's new standards?I'm so sorry man!
 
How terrible can something be that it prevents you getting 6-0d from the lead spot? Can someone genuinely explain to me, with solid reasoning why Scarftran doesn't work on Fire?
It depends on your lead, typically fire likes to lead with Torkoal or Stealth Rocks Infernape, sometimes Heatran, mainly they just want to get Rocks up. With Mega-Diancie you have to be careful because almost none of these leads can do anything against Mega-Diancie (other than Air Balloon Heatran or Scarfed Heatran), and it gives Mega-Diancie a chance to get boosts with its attacks (again, I get the +1 in all stats so often you wouldn't believe it).

Do I think Mega-Diancie is broken? No. It's very difficult to take down with a Fire team, but this is understandable since it is Rock type. Agaisnt other teams, it does its job fairly well, but not as extreme. You just need to play around it and try bringing something to make sure you can bring it down.

I have yet to try out Scarf Heatran, I'll have to give it a try.
 

Acast

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Can anybody please tell me exactly how fighting is supposed to deal with M-alt? Cotton guard pretty much walls half of the mons, and there are a few prominent special attackers, but none of those that I know of can really do much. Keld can do Icy Wind, that's about it, for example.
Toxicroak isn't the greatest pokemon in general, but it has its uses on Fighting. LO Gunk Shot is a 2HKO against a Cotton Guard boosted Mega Altaria.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. +3 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 179-213 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lucario is another option that people use to check Fairies.
252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Altaria: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you get a Nasty Plot boost on Lucario that's a OHKO.

Of course neither of those pokemon are going to have a good time against a Dragon Dance Altaria. They'll really only work against bulky Altaria variations that don't run Fire or Ground moves.
 

Funbot28

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So to be clear, here are the following suspects:

Rock: Shuckle
Flying: Mega Altaria
Global: Mega Diancie

Is this true?
 

The Immortal

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Other Metas Leader
Announcement: Monotype will no longer have a single leader. The leader will be replaced by a council of five. And with that, we are starting a new discussion thread. Remember to follow the forum rules and only use the the thread for metagame discussion. If you want to congratulate someone, you can do so on their wall. The same goes for posts like "omg finally"; those will be deleted.

>>New thread<<
 
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