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I understand where u guys are coming from but after one cc it can be revenge killed very easy by a scarf and picked off by strong priority, gallades shadow sneaks is really lacking in power unleless a team is way chipped down. Im not saying its not good but we might as well just ban all boosting sweepers while we are at it i think this needs to be thought out more
And thank you arkenciel for basically elequently stating what i was trying to get across and like i said dont get me wrong its a great pokemon with a bunch of nice options but just bc u can tailor it destroy one type that u may struggles leaves it undortunately walled by another pokemon that might even be able to set up on it just thoughts that i think every clearly should think through before we just slam the ban hammer down on it
And thank you arkenciel for basically elequently stating what i was trying to get across and like i said dont get me wrong its a great pokemon with a bunch of nice options but just bc u can tailor it destroy one type that u may struggles leaves it undortunately walled by another pokemon that might even be able to set up on it just thoughts that i think every clearly should think through before we just slam the ban hammer down on it
That's the point of this discussion. It is not set in stone that Mega Gallade will be banned. We support discussion and we appreciate the argument you and ArkenCiel are bringing to this debate. (Sorry Arken, but I just don't have the time to read your entire post right now so I only read the TL;DR version. I'll try to read the whole thing later.) To be honest, you are making a good point and I'm less convinced that Mega Gallade should be banned now than I was before. I still think it should be banned and it still probably will be, but I'm not 100% sure that it's broken anymore. More like 85%~
Yeahhh, no problem, Booty. It was your comment that made me want to add something to the forums. I was planning to write something before I saw your post, but I felt more confident and just had to say something when I saw that we shared the same view. I haven't really seen Mega-Gallade on a fighting team easily ripping through the ladder anyway. I am probably wrong.
Not a problem Acast. It's quite the read, unnecessarily, so I don't blame you. I have to go for now, but I want to add my two-cents to the jar of opinions of the other suspected Pokemon later on.
I havent either nor have i on psychic i havent seen much gallade usage tbh but i have been tinkering with sets i used a max spped max attack bulk up will o wisp set with drain and ice punch for psychic i will say that set is pretty nice boosts on skarm and shreds steel still has walls though but it is a nice set and im once more people see me use it or shred up an ot with that set will get more usage but tbh i havent even seen a fon of mega gallade usage yet
Btw sorry for my typos im on mobile and on my phone lol but in my previous post i meant if u make it to destroy a certain type it then leaves u weak and walled by another type and that type may even be able to set up on it just thoughts we all need to review just wanted to repost without all the grammar issues
I'm one of the party that prefers medicham while teambuilding, so I'm kind of neutral on this proposed ban. Gallade's role is stronger when it works, and it is versatile enough for laddering, esp with the centralization at the moment. I swept a couple water teams using gallade (shadow sneak variant) but it didn't particularly impress me. When I linked this page in monoroom, the general consensus seemed to lean toward metagross's usage is higher and more convenient , and in truth, in 30-40 battles no one used gallade against me in tournaments or ladder matches.
I don't really like ice punch except on bulk up versions, since fighting teams WILL carry keldeo variants for most of the pokemon checking non ice punch gallade, as well as a couple walls that work on him regardless of which moves he has. As for psychic teams, I frankly don't think about the dragon matchup, and I use a fair(but incomplete) number of his ice punch weak checks to lure pokemon into a double switched offensive latios, who is able to run coverage moves that I wouldn't dream of without gallade on the team. Fighting teams love him for making the number of "oh god I need sashloom alive for this" moments go down.
Devil's advocate aside though, I see it as ban worthy for both types just for pulling tricks out of the bag in most battles it is in.
Fighting actually struggles against a large part of the metagame these days. Steel has good old megagross in addition to its old anti-fighting toys, flying resists your main STAB and has walls for all or most of their stuff, psychic has walls for days in addition to scarfs and megagross, bug has pinsir and sticky web to add to their scarves, normal has pidgeot and ditto, water is teeming with anti-fighting toys like greninja and azumarill, dragon has latios and altaria, fairy is inherently advantaged, and dark has the greninja+mandibuzz+sableye combination. This is the other nine of the top ten types between November 20th and 30th. That's pretty rough for our fighting friends. Fighting checks and counters are so common that nerfing the type makes no sense.
I'm not calling fighting bad by any means. I just think banning Gallade from fighting would be incredibly unfair to the type, especially if people are arguing Mega Sableye shouldn't be banned from ghost because it doesn't get good enough support. Gallade gets far less support on fighting than Mega Sableye on ghost, so it would be a little hypocritical if we're going to ban it on fighting but not Sableye on ghost.
I was reading with some off the type advantages nani had mentioned and i disagree that it powers through water. Water has plenty of options to deal with it. Azumarill slowbro and and gyarados all resist and gyarados with intimidate can lower its attack and even get a boost off depending on the set water. also has quagsire for unaware and water also still has greninja equiped with multiple moves u turn Aerial ace Gunk shot etc with ninjas changing of types its easy to exploit what u think gallade might do. Steel also still has doublade and megagross and scarf excadrill which can hamper sweeps
I was reading with some off the type advantages nani had mentioned and i disagree that it powers through water. Water has plenty of options to deal with it. Azumarill slowbro and and gyarados all resist and gyarados with intimidate can lower its attack and even get a boost off depending on the set water. also has quagsire for unaware and water also still has greninja equiped with multiple moves u turn Aerial ace Gunk shot etc with ninjas changing of types its easy to exploit what u think gallade might do. Steel also still has doublade and megagross and scarf excadrill which can hamper sweeps
Now that you mention it, although Quag and Aerial Ace Greninja are a little uncommon (Alomomola normally takes Quag's spot in stallwater), they do handle Gallade fairly well although only Quag is a solid counter. Actually...
252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Have fun trying to get rid of hazards with Tenta and Empoleon. As for Azumarill:
252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is really good actually, but this is by no means a solid counter. Fighting is going to be losing something, or it'll switch into Cobalion (and risk a Belly Drum), but Psychic has a reliable answer to it. As you know, Slowbro walls non belly drum Azumarill, and even then, Mew can simply burn it later since it lives a +6 Aqua Jet (if it's healthy enough.) Also, after reading Narset's (and some other people's) post I'm now on the fence. I feel like Gallade could stay on Fighting teams since they're so offensive and frail. However, it's still strong asf. In my eyes, only Fairy can reliably deal with it (not force it out after sacking something). Everything else is cleanly swept late game, and as people have said, Psychic and Fighting are by no means bad so they can easily weaken / kill Gallade's checks before sending it in. Booty, you also said Water had a decent matchup, so I'll assume that's the only one you disagree with. Does that mean Gallade has a positive matchup vs 16 types? (15, if you don't count Dragon since you don't have Ice Punch, and quite possibly 14 if you struggle with Ghost + Sab) Either way, that's insanely good in a metagame like Monotype. In OU, you can just take something out and add an appropriate counter. The problem is that counters are non-existent or only available on certain types. (Fairy happens to be hogging all of them) Most types only have 1 or 2 at most, so they're forced to play safely in order to save them while the Gallade user can ruthlessly fire off Close Combats and Psycho Cuts at no drawback (reminds me of Greninja). There's also the problem of trying to figure out what set Gallade's running without weakening too much of your team. (Just repeating Cast) However, like I said before I am now on the fence for a Fighting typeban for Gallade but still leaning towards ban. Still agree on a Psychic typeban tho.
I was reading with some off the type advantages nani had mentioned and i disagree that it powers through water. Water has plenty of options to deal with it. Azumarill slowbro and and gyarados all resist and gyarados with intimidate can lower its attack and even get a boost off depending on the set water. also has quagsire for unaware and water also still has greninja equiped with multiple moves u turn Aerial ace Gunk shot etc with ninjas changing of types its easy to exploit what u think gallade might do. Steel also still has doublade and megagross and scarf excadrill which can hamper sweeps
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 328-387 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 373-441 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
Azumarill is a check, but if Mega Gallade has a Swords Dance boost before Azu comes in, it's not looking good for the aqua rabbit.
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 340-402 (86.2 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Again, assuming Mega Gallade can get a Swords Dance boost before Scald burns it, Slowbro is not going to stay alive very long. I'm not even sure I would call Slowbro a check if the Gallade has Knock Off, which most do. Mega Slowbro was a hard counter, but regular Slowbro can't live up to it.
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 247-292 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 283-334 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 247-292 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Those calcs are assuming Mega Gallade got the Swords Dance boost up and Gyarados was able to Intimidate it, resulting in an overall +1 boost to attack. If there are no Stealth Rocks on the field and Gyarados gets a Dragon Dance boost before it's KOd, then maybe it can prove to be a problem for Gallade, but it has to be at full health when it comes in. Gyarados is a situational check and considering Tentacruel is Water's best way of getting rid of hazards and Tentacruel gets destroyed by Mega Gallade, it's not going to be a check very often.
Saying that Water is defenseless against Mega Gallade would be false, but Nani Man did not say that. This is a direct quote from his post
water - can hope for scald burns, but if on psychic teams, the burn will be healed. other than that, the offensive pressure gets too much for water. slowbro gets deck'd by knock off
Water has Azumarill and Gyarados as kinda/sorta checks, but neither is anywhere near safe from a boosted Mega Gallade. Water can, and does, struggle against it.
Fighting actually struggles against a large part of the metagame these days. Steel has good old megagross in addition to its old anti-fighting toys, flying resists your main STAB and has walls for all or most of their stuff, psychic has walls for days in addition to scarfs and megagross, bug has pinsir and sticky web to add to their scarves, normal has pidgeot and ditto, water is teeming with anti-fighting toys like greninja and azumarill, dragon has latios and altaria, fairy is inherently advantaged, and dark has the greninja+mandibuzz+sableye combination. This is the other nine of the top ten types between November 20th and 30th. That's pretty rough for our fighting friends. Fighting checks and counters are so common that nerfing the type makes no sense.
I'm not calling fighting bad by any means. I just think banning Gallade from fighting would be incredibly unfair to the type, especially if people are arguing Mega Sableye shouldn't be banned from ghost because it doesn't get good enough support. Gallade gets far less support on fighting than Mega Sableye on ghost, so it would be a little hypocritical if we're going to ban it on fighting but not Sableye on ghost.
Like has been discussed for Mega Sableye on Dark, Mega Gallade gets a different type of support on Fighting--offensive support. Fighting has a plethora of hard hitters who can weaken or remove walls and offensive threats, such as Hawlucha (btw, if you hate Psychic there is a Fling/Dread Plate set that works, and gets you the Unburden boost), Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Heracross, Infernape (who can go mixed and is bae), and Mienshao. It also has status absorbers in Guts users, such as Conkeldurr and Heracross. Infernape is immune to Burns. Cobalion can spread Paralysis and is immune to Toxic. Also sets Rocks to break Sashes and Sturdy for easier sweeps (this is also the bane of Bug and Flying), can pivot nicely with Volt Switch and is a pretty good physical wall with 91/129 physical bulk. Assault Vest Conkeldurr or Assault Vest Hitmontop can tank special hits (Hitmontop also gets Rapid Spin). So, while it is easy to point out that Fighting doesn't have Wish passers or Heal Bellers, it does receive other support from its teammates, namely offensive pressure, status absorbers, a useful status spreader and rocks setter, and tanks who can usually switch in.
Also, Fighting does have answers to most of the threats you mentioned. Megagross is outsped by lots of stuff before it Mega Evolves, and you can either EQ it or hit it hard with your powerful STABs. Also, Scarf Keldeo outspeeds and Megagross probably won't like that Hydro Pump very much. Scarf Terrakion also outspeeds and can hit hard, but dislikes Bullet Punch, unlike Keldeo who resists steel. Most Fighting types carry Ice Punch or Stone Edge to deal with Flying types, and Skarmory is dealt with through wearing it down with your powerful STABs, Keldeo, or a Thunder Punch user. Or Infernape murders, with either Overheat or Flare Blitz. Scarfcross and Scarf Terrakion are also a fearsome combo, as they both carry Stone Edge, Terrakion gets STAB from it, and Heracross can nab boosts with Moxie. For Psychic, there is the Fling/Dread Plate Hawlucha set that I mentioned above, as well as Scarfcross Megahorn and repeated neutral hits. Also, Terrakion can have X-Scissor. Your scarves tend to outspeed theirs as well, excluding the Lati twins.
As for Bug, Bugs hate Stealth Rock, and webs can be spun away by Hitmontop. Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo again murder Mega Pinsir, but Terrakion does it better as it is neutral to Quick Attack and STAB Stone Edge is 4x SE on Mega Pinsir (dommage incoming for the Bug user). Again, Scarfcross with Stone Edge works too. Also, Infernape can sweep Bug through Overheat and Flare Blitz, once Shuckle/Armaldo/Volcarona are gone (and even they take Fire neutrally, and the Rock Bugs take Fighting neutrally, so they aren't much of a problem). Normal is weak to your STABs, and Ice Punch/Stone Edge are SE on Staraptor and Mega Pidgeot. Kill Ditto early, or make it copy something one of your Scarfers can outspeed. Knock Off also removes Ditto's Scarf (Conk, Megallade, Mienshao, etc.). Greninja can't switch in, because it is weak to Fighting in its original form. You can also Mach Punch it before it attacks, or Assault Vest Conkeldurr can take the Extrasensory and nail it with Knock Off. Azumarill can be hit by a Thunder Punch user, or Poison Jab from Conk. I also run HP Grass on my Keldeo, and it hurts non-Sap Sipper variants, or HP Electric is usable on Keldeo. Latios dislikes Ice Punch and Knock Off and Altaria REALLY hates Ice Punch in its original form, and after it Mega Evolves you can hit it with Poison Jab or Bullet Punch. Fairy does have the advantage, but you can use your coverage to hit them at what their other type is weak to, Diancie and Klefki are neutral to your STABs, and many Fighting types get Poison Jab or Bullet Punch (such as Conkeldurr, Hitmontop, and Medicham). You can also run Iron Head on Cobalion, as the last slot is filler after Rocks, T-Wave, and Volt Switch. Iron Head is STAB, SE on Fairies, and can murder Mega Diancie. Cobalion also takes neutral damage from Fairy moves, because of its Steel typing. Again, Greninja is weak to Dark upon switchin, and Mach Punch can hit it before attacks. Assault Vest Knock Off Conkeldurr can nail it after it takes Extrasensory. Mandibuzz is weak to Stone Edge, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch, and is neutral to your STABs and weak to them after it Roosts. Or, helpful little Keldeo is always there. Keldeo can also kill Sableye if you didn't let it boost a lot, or Guts users can get an attack boost from the burn.
TL;DR: Fighting doesn't offer Wish/Heal Bell support, but it does provide offensive pressure/wallbreaking, status absorbers, tanks, and Cobalion (paralysis spreader, Rocks setter, defensive Pokemon, good pivot with Volt Switch). Also, Mega Gallade has teammates that can eliminate the threats you mentioned with proper predictions and good playing, particularly Assault Vest Guts Conkeldurr (which I believe is one of the best teammates to Mega Gallade, especially alongside Cobalion). I do think your points are good however, especially if some of your counters to these counters (XD) are gone. I think I'm with Acast now, meaning ~85% confident that it should be banned on Fighting, but certain it should be banned on Psychic.
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 328-387 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 373-441 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
Azumarill is a check, but if Mega Gallade has a Swords Dance boost before Azu comes in, it's not looking good for the aqua rabbit.
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 340-402 (86.2 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Again, assuming Mega Gallade can get a Swords Dance boost before Scald burns it, Slowbro is not going to stay alive very long. I'm not even sure I would call Slowbro a check if the Gallade has Knock Off, which most do. Mega Slowbro was a hard counter, but regular Slowbro can't live up to it.
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 247-292 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 283-334 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 247-292 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Those calcs are assuming Mega Gallade got the Swords Dance boost up and Gyarados was able to Intimidate it, resulting in an overall +1 boost to attack. If there are no Stealth Rocks on the field and Gyarados gets a Dragon Dance boost before it's KOd, then maybe it can prove to be a problem for Gallade, but it has to be at full health when it comes in. Gyarados is a situational check and considering Tentacruel is Water's best way of getting rid of hazards and Tentacruel gets destroyed by Mega Gallade, it's not going to be a check very often.
Saying that Water is defenseless against Mega Gallade would be false, but Nani Man did not say that. This is a direct quote from his post
Water has Azumarill and Gyarados as kinda/sorta checks, but neither is anywhere near safe from a boosted Mega Gallade. Water can, and does, struggle against it.
Gyarados could Mega Evolve, making Psycho Cut do nothing, get a D-Dance up, and hurt Mega Gallade, but it gets murdered by Close Combat, and is OHKOed if the Mega Gallade user predicts this. Waterfall could flinch though, because Mold Breaker ignores Inner Focus (I think) so there's that, but I agree with your post--water does struggle with Mega Gallade. Sorry for double post btw.
So um, I haven't read all the posts/replies on this forum,(sorry) but I did want to share my opinions on the subject.
1.Mons like medicham/gallade are only broken when they are surrounded by a very well rounded core. In this case that applies to psychic with medicham/gallade. Yes,it's possible and probably even easy to beat one of these in a one on one, but adding slowbro and mew to the equation is what makes breaking this offense so difficult. I doubt either of these mons need on a ban on fighting, simply because they rarely have switch ins. However on psychic, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind both of these need to go. Although gal and medi don't have the specifically same role on their teams, you're left with the same end result when playing them. It's simply too easy for a core to put these two mons in a position to sweep.
So um, I haven't read all the posts/replies on this forum,(sorry) but I did want to share my opinions on the subject.
1.Mons like medicham/gallade are only broken when they are surrounded by a very well rounded core. In this case that applies to psychic with medicham/gallade. Yes,it's possible and probably even easy to beat one of these in a one on one, but adding slowbro and mew to the equation is what makes breaking this offense so difficult. I doubt either of these mons need on a ban on fighting, simply because they rarely have switch ins. However on psychic, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind both of these need to go. Although gal and medi don't have the specifically same role on their teams, you're left with the same end result when playing them. It's simply too easy for a core to put these two mons in a position to sweep.
While it can be difficult to get a good switch-in while using offensive teams, a good player who can keep high levels of offensive pressure will not only find it relatively easy to switch in, but also exrtremely rewarding when a good switch-in is played. Moreover, the sheer offensive nature of fighting teams means it's not unviable to simply send these mons in after a teammate has fallen, and procede to wreak havoc from there.
As has previously been mentionned, I think many teams lack reliable ways of beating Mega Gallade. Moreover, while a few teams may have (extremely difficult) ways of dealing with Mega Gallade, let's not forget that Talonflame was banned for destroying three types. Where the number of types Talonflame destroyed could be counted on one hand, the number of types Mega Gallade can't destroy can be counted on one hand. Fighting teams provide immense offensive support, even decent support against type disadvantages if the team is well built, while there's no doubt that it gets plenty of support on psychic teams. Ban Mega Gallade.
Mega Medicham is an issue that has been around for a little longer, and although ORAS changed a few things, such as giving normal Mega Audino, there's still a number of types that really struggle to handle this wallbreaker. It's seen less often because its usefulness is perhaps less obvious (it won't be sweeping a well-built team in the way Mega Gallade can), however I believed this pokemon to be broken pre-ORAS and I do not see a big enough difference for my opinion to have been changed on this matter. It destroys any wall on Normal, Ice, Steel, Dark, and Rock, and this is just with one move. Depending on its coverage, it can choose which walls it wants to break which is a massive asset for teams struggling with stall. This means the rest of the fighting team can spam scarfed mons without fear of losing to stall, or the Psychic team can clean easily with scarfed gardevoir or whatever mon you may choose. While I would agree with a suspect test for this mon more than Mega Gallade, I still think that the overall result should be to Ban Mega Medicham.
Like has been discussed for Mega Sableye on Dark, Mega Gallade gets a different type of support on Fighting--offensive support. Fighting has a plethora of hard hitters who can weaken or remove walls and offensive threats, such as Hawlucha (btw, if you hate Psychic there is a Fling/Dread Plate set that works, and gets you the Unburden boost), Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Heracross, Infernape (who can go mixed and is bae), and Mienshao. It also has status absorbers in Guts users, such as Conkeldurr and Heracross. Infernape is immune to Burns. Cobalion can spread Paralysis and is immune to Toxic. Also sets Rocks to break Sashes and Sturdy for easier sweeps (this is also the bane of Bug and Flying), can pivot nicely with Volt Switch and is a pretty good physical wall with 91/129 physical bulk. Assault Vest Conkeldurr or Assault Vest Hitmontop can tank special hits (Hitmontop also gets Rapid Spin). So, while it is easy to point out that Fighting doesn't have Wish passers or Heal Bellers, it does receive other support from its teammates, namely offensive pressure, status absorbers, a useful status spreader and rocks setter, and tanks who can usually switch in.
Also, Fighting does have answers to most of the threats you mentioned. Megagross is outsped by lots of stuff before it Mega Evolves, and you can either EQ it or hit it hard with your powerful STABs. Also, Scarf Keldeo outspeeds and Megagross probably won't like that Hydro Pump very much. Scarf Terrakion also outspeeds and can hit hard, but dislikes Bullet Punch, unlike Keldeo who resists steel. Most Fighting types carry Ice Punch or Stone Edge to deal with Flying types, and Skarmory is dealt with through wearing it down with your powerful STABs, Keldeo, or a Thunder Punch user. Or Infernape murders, with either Overheat or Flare Blitz. Scarfcross and Scarf Terrakion are also a fearsome combo, as they both carry Stone Edge, Terrakion gets STAB from it, and Heracross can nab boosts with Moxie. For Psychic, there is the Fling/Dread Plate Hawlucha set that I mentioned above, as well as Scarfcross Megahorn and repeated neutral hits. Also, Terrakion can have X-Scissor. Your scarves tend to outspeed theirs as well, excluding the Lati twins.
As for Bug, Bugs hate Stealth Rock, and webs can be spun away by Hitmontop. Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo again murder Mega Pinsir, but Terrakion does it better as it is neutral to Quick Attack and STAB Stone Edge is 4x SE on Mega Pinsir (dommage incoming for the Bug user). Again, Scarfcross with Stone Edge works too. Also, Infernape can sweep Bug through Overheat and Flare Blitz, once Shuckle/Armaldo/Volcarona are gone (and even they take Fire neutrally, and the Rock Bugs take Fighting neutrally, so they aren't much of a problem). Normal is weak to your STABs, and Ice Punch/Stone Edge are SE on Staraptor and Mega Pidgeot. Kill Ditto early, or make it copy something one of your Scarfers can outspeed. Knock Off also removes Ditto's Scarf (Conk, Megallade, Mienshao, etc.). Greninja can't switch in, because it is weak to Fighting in its original form. You can also Mach Punch it before it attacks, or Assault Vest Conkeldurr can take the Extrasensory and nail it with Knock Off. Azumarill can be hit by a Thunder Punch user, or Poison Jab from Conk. I also run HP Grass on my Keldeo, and it hurts non-Sap Sipper variants, or HP Electric is usable on Keldeo. Latios dislikes Ice Punch and Knock Off and Altaria REALLY hates Ice Punch in its original form, and after it Mega Evolves you can hit it with Poison Jab or Bullet Punch. Fairy does have the advantage, but you can use your coverage to hit them at what their other type is weak to, Diancie and Klefki are neutral to your STABs, and many Fighting types get Poison Jab or Bullet Punch (such as Conkeldurr, Hitmontop, and Medicham). You can also run Iron Head on Cobalion, as the last slot is filler after Rocks, T-Wave, and Volt Switch. Iron Head is STAB, SE on Fairies, and can murder Mega Diancie. Cobalion also takes neutral damage from Fairy moves, because of its Steel typing. Again, Greninja is weak to Dark upon switchin, and Mach Punch can hit it before attacks. Assault Vest Knock Off Conkeldurr can nail it after it takes Extrasensory. Mandibuzz is weak to Stone Edge, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch, and is neutral to your STABs and weak to them after it Roosts. Or, helpful little Keldeo is always there. Keldeo can also kill Sableye if you didn't let it boost a lot, or Guts users can get an attack boost from the burn.
TL;DR: Fighting doesn't offer Wish/Heal Bell support, but it does provide offensive pressure/wallbreaking, status absorbers, tanks, and Cobalion (paralysis spreader, Rocks setter, defensive Pokemon, good pivot with Volt Switch). Also, Mega Gallade has teammates that can eliminate the threats you mentioned with proper predictions and good playing, particularly Assault Vest Guts Conkeldurr (which I believe is one of the best teammates to Mega Gallade, especially alongside Cobalion). I do think your points are good however, especially if some of your counters to these counters (XD) are gone. I think I'm with Acast now, meaning ~85% confident that it should be banned on Fighting, but certain it should be banned on Psychic.
To head off this post, while many of you may know me as a dragon user, I have been experimenting with fighting recently, and commonly with Mega Gallade.
The main issue with your hit Megagross before it gets the speed argument is that, while it doesn't get the speed on mega evo turn, it does get its Defense, which, for those of you who are unaware is Base 150. This gives Mega Metagross about as much, if not more Physical Defense than Slowbro. As such, you damn well better hope you either have your Mixnape (Flamethrower/Flare Blitz will likely OHKO) in or something with EQ, and even then, EQ doesn't do much. On top of this, the Mega Gallade everyone fears so much has bad, for lack of a better word, damage output on Megagross. Just because something is weak to a move doesn't mean that it's taking a lot of damage or even not able to handle what's attacking.
Stats ARE adjusted for MegaGross and Mega Gallade
Since both Psychic and Steel often carry rocks, I'll be considering them in these calcs as well
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 116-138 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
All I really need to say is a lot of Megagross carry Zen headbutt
252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 296-350 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I hope you enjoy eating Meteor Mash (you don't)
252 Atk Gallade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 74-88 (24.5 - 29.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
lol
252 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 228-268 (82 - 96.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 154-182 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you're not in on the turn when Megagross Megas AND you're CONVENIENTLY choiced into EQ, you're going to have a bad time
252 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 350-414 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ouch. Zen Headbutt OHKOs as well.
252 Atk Heracross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 150-178 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Nice Damage! I hope you're choiced into that just like Terrakion too because
252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 360-426 (119.6 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Scrafty Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 116-140 (38.5 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Even Scrafty loses! What a pokemon!
252 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 144-170 (37.3 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Honestly, Cobalion is the only thing I see having a large change of at least crippling MegaGross, but this restricts teambuilding to Cobalion, which was part of the reason a certain mon was banned from Monotype ~~I say as I unobviously cough talonflame~~
While you may be able to do a solid 40-55% damage, both psychic and steel have access to viable answers to this problem. Steel has access to walls such as Skarmory (which can, shockingly, avoid your mixnape or even KO it with BB.) Psychic has access to a plethora of healing options, with Wish, Healing Wish, and Heal Bell being on viable pokemon for Psychic (you needn't look farther than Latias and Mew.) at least we have intact sash loom and my keldeo eats zen headbutt right hahahahaha
While I may be digressing into a little bit of an anti-MegaGross rant, my point is that even though it looks nice on paper, fighting types lack reliable recovery so A. prior damage screws you, and B. it's not difficult to make a mon lose around 20% HP. You're nearly guaranteed to lose several mons to MegaGross, which, vs psychic, is often a lose condition and vs steel can SEVERELY hinder your team to the point of loss.
Since I just hit up psychic, running multiple scarves to kill Megagross is just an example of overcentralization, but I've already ranted about that. Moving on. The Hawlucha set looks like it's kind of walled by Slowbro once you fling. It also cannot KO Latios, which is rather physically frail.
252+ Atk Dread Plate Hawlucha Fling (90 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 246-290 (81.4 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not to mention everyone and their mother has Psyshock on Latios, not even including the fact that some run Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, and Choice Scarf variants, which BY THE WAY, CAN KO YOUR SCARVES AND PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ELSE (LOOKING AT YOU CONK). Hope you run scrafty, because Psyshock hurts even Mega Gallade pretty bad.
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 186-220 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I have never met a high level fighting user who uses Assault Vest Hitmontop. Fighting really doesn't need the spinning except for a niche role against a single type, and Cobalion pulls off a defensive role far better. at least you can eat psyshocks now right?
Status absorbers are great until you realize: status sucks! I hope you got burned or toxic'd because para basically screws the mon entirely. lol what about freeze and sleep? While that also sounds great, residual damage adds up, and getting HP back from Drain Punch, especially on Conkeldurr, will often not return heal the same damage you're taking per turn, resulting in wear down after only 2 or 3 turns to the point where you can be knocked out by a lot of stuff. Heracross w/o scarf is also in the unfavorable speed tier and doesn't have drain punch and instead uses Close Combat, which only increases your suspectibility to getting rekt. ~~arm thrust master race~~ Infernape not being burned is FANTASTIC, but you know what would be more fantastic? Infernape actually being able to take a hit. It has bulk comparable to that of Lucario aka killed by everything. While the speed tier is great, you have to be able to net OHKOs or switch kills to maintain Infernape's field presence. This isn't an easy thing to do, especially when you consider how a lot of pokemon happen to be able to take a hit from Infernape, including those on flying. Dragonite, Togekiss, Gyarados sometimes, hell, I've even lost my Infernape to Skarmory. Quoting a good friend of mine and Flying user Tael "Everything with a move on flying can kill Infernape." Infernape has this problem with nearly every type. Good thing switching exists.
I find Bug to be more of a Neutral matchup with Fighting. My main issue with your anti bug is that it relies on Infernape using Overheat or Flare Blitz and just Infernape, which is not a sustainable system. You'll have to switch after overheat or kys with Flare Blitz recoil. If you're smart and use Flamethrower, Scolipede and Pinsir and Scarf Heracross can all ruin Infernape's day. Good thing we have reliable 100% hit scarf Terrakion and Heracross, that aren't outsped by Scolipede at all or by the common baton pass Scolipede to whatever they want (probably Pinsir.) I myself run Hidden Power Fire on Keldeo to help with this this matchup. Hidden Power Fire ruins days.
Against Normal, I for the most part agree because of the type advantage and Terrakion beating up Pijot and Staraptor without even needing a scarf. Nothing on normal likes Close Combat.
Flying. I've beaten Flying teams with HP Ice, Flamethrower Infernape and Terrakion. I don't even run Ice Punch MeGallade myself, and I still win many of my matches with flying. Gallade is not what makes this matchup easier, if anything it's scarf Stone Edge ripping through the enemy team like a knife through butter. Personally, I think Flying is a lot less than it's cracked up to be, and a type being able to defeat Flying teams with a certain Pokemon on its team shouldn't be over stressed, especially if we look at what Fighting has to dispose of Flying. Rock Tomb, Stone Edge, Rock Slide I guess, Icy Wind, Hidden power Ice, Thunderpunch. If you're not building a Fighting team prepared, at the least, for Flying, you failed in teambuilding.
Water type. It looks simple to beat. You send in breloom and use Spore and Bullet Seed and Mach punch for Gren. GG. For those of you who do not run Breloom, this becomes a much larger issue. Greninja has amazing versatility and can choose between using Extrasensory, Gunk Shot, and Hydro Pump to get rid of dark typing in favorable way. Sure, it goes down to Mach Punch as a dark type, but a Greninja player likely knows this and WOULD NOT PUT IN GREN ON SOMETHING WITH MACH PUNCH. It's basic metagame knowledge. You don't send in fucking Diancie against a Metagross, and the same principle applies here. Not to mention your just knock off it is flawed because it can run several other viable moves to hit your knock off-er (Hydro Pump and Gunk Shot) w/o incurring a handy dandy Dark weakness. Azumarill is another pokemon that will likely guarantee at least one KO against your mons unless they for some god awful reason send it in on Breloom (unless they're sap sipper, then it's cool.) As far as I know, most Conkeldurr have Mach Punch/Drain Punch/ Ice Punch/ Knock off, which leaves them walled by Azu like the majority of your team. Good thing we have THUNDERPUNCH INFERNAPE SAVING THE DA- until he gets Aqua Jetted. Not to mention that Slowbro and Tentacruel and Gyarados can all also give a fighting team trouble if they do not carefully preserve Nape and Breloom. Mega Gallade gets thunderpunch if you're that desperate to beat wtaer but you sacrifice utility against types. Like ArkenCiel said, Gallade has 4MSS, at least from my experience.
Fairy Type. Moonblast this! Moonblast that! It's not hard for the fairy player to win here. All it takes is some para throwing with Klefki and Togekiss and some air slashes and you could be missing some very important pokemon. Cobalion, honestly, is the only thing I trust to take a hit vs fairy, and even then, it can only retaliate for so long due to lack of reliable recovery. Mega Gallade's Psycho Cuts gladly dispose of Togekiss if you don't run Ice Punch. However, you can be steamrolled by Mega Gardevoir/ScarfGarde even if you do get rid of Toge.
Dark Type. A matchup I feel is very skewed now due to the introduction of Mega Sableye, which, like the vast majority of players, I feel should be banned from Dark. I can count the amount of times I have defeated one of those little assholes with fighting on one finger. Granted, some are because of hax, but frankly, Dark's support game is too good for Fighting to be able to handle both it and Mega Sab.
For those of you who had the bravery to read all the way through this counter-post, I applaud you. What I'm trying to delineate with this post is that Fighting isn't the massive powerhouse that I'd love it to be. Even WITH Mega Gallade, Fighting still has trouble with many types, and the types that it seems Mega Gallade gives it a "Huge Advantage against" either still beat Fighting in many scenarios or Fighting could beat in the hands of a decent player. I may have written this with little Mega Gallade in it, but this is a post to prove that Mega Gallade does not need to be banned from Fighting. Mega Gallade's benefits are overexaggerated, as is the capability of the type itself. I could write a similar post about Bug and Genesect. Does Fighting need Mega Gallade to function as a type? No. Does Fighting appreciate the typing and coverage Mega Gallade can bring to the team? Absolutely. Does Fighting have adequate support to make Mega Gallade the monster it's perceived as? Without wish passing, status healing, or reliable switchins for some very large threats (Megagross, Mega Sab, Gardevoir, and I believe I've made clear why Cobalion is not sustainable,) I feel the answer here is no. If anything, a typeban from Psychic, which has AMAZING team support options, should be considered.
tl;dr (I forgive you if you're skipping straight to this) I felt the earlier post was a misrepresentation of facts. Fighting is a great type in its own regard, and even with Mega Gallade, the type in and of itself is not broken or OP. It has disadvantages and advantages, just like everything else. On the contrary, Psychic has what it takes to support Gallade in such a manner that it CAN become broken, and therefore, I feel a typeban from Psychic, if Mega Gallade were to be banned at all, is the most appropriate choice.
i also dont understand how you guys and nani think gallade can boost vs dark with sableye it around it resists both its stabs knock off wont do much bc of sablenite and sableye still has its non mega form to burn gallade on command so booosting kinda becomes a stupid point because half of dark carries foul play so id like to hear back from you guys.
Quick summation of what Fighting teams would be without Mega Gallade/ Mega Medicham
Normal- Chansey survives an attack and cripples a great threat
Flying- Skarm sweep if Keldeo dies
Dark- Gl killing Mandibuzz after Keldeo dies
Ice- Gets donked eitherways
Psychic- Conkeldurr knocking off things but Latios/Victini/Meloetta/Any fast psychic stab takes care of that so RIP
Rock- Keldeo's dead? GL beating Mega Aggron
Dragon- No more donking Lati@s with Gallade/ Dragonites with Fake Out MegaCham
Ghost- Mega Sableye will eat all of you
Poison- Gl beating mega venusaur and weezing
Fairy- Now it's far harder to beat!
Ground- Meh Keldeo got this
Bug- Terrakkion got this
Water- Lose Breloom before wallbreaking and you lose the game
Fire- Terrakkion has this but still loses the sheer power of Mega Gallade/Medicham
Grass- Mega Venusaur+Ferrothorn+Skymin gg
Steel- Gl Killing Skarm+Ferro+Doublade Core
Electric- yeah have fun wallbreaking and killing Zapdos+Magnezone+Rotom-W core
Fighting- No more Psy moves to spam :[
Therefore, Fighting needs Mega Gallade or Mega Medicham. Psychic does have walls to switch into and absorb hits, which fighting doesn't. Also with no recovery, it is much frail in fighting. Therefore, don't ban.
Normal - The majority of fighting types will 2HKO Chansey, and you have Conkeldurr if you are worried about it spreading status. It surviving one hit isn't that big of an issue, it's probably a good thing considering how one sided this matchup is.
Flying - Infernape deals with the flying core pretty handily, having access to things like fire blast, flare blitz, stone edge and elemental punches. Terrakion is also very valuable.
Dark - Why do the megas make this any better? Sableye is still a thing, which has the ability to wall both of them.
Psychic - Having Gallade/Medicham honestly doesn't make the matchup much better, you still have slowbro and mew being incredibly obnoxious, while most psychic scarves, although they are unable to switch in, deal with the megas pretty easily.
Rock - Mega Aggron is incredibly bulky, but has no reliable recovery. Not that hard to beat.
Dragon - Relying on a speed tie to take out a threat is not that great of an option in the first place. Plus Lati@s is a common scarfer. As for Dragonite, Medicham is not the only fighting type to get fake out, nor is it fast enough to run through fighting teams.
Ghost - Having Mega Medicham or Mega Gallade does not make dealing with Mega Sableye any easier. It is immune to both their STABs and takes reduced damage from knock off.
Poison - You still have base Medicham, which is not unusable. You do lose the ability to click one button and melt the entirety of poison barring Drapion/Skuntank though. Bad thing? Not necessarily.
Fairy - Yes, it does make this harder.
Ground - Doesn't change a whole lot.
Bug - Assuming Pinsir doesn't murdur you first.
Water - Yes, but that isn't a reason to keep either of them around.
Fire - Again, not a reason to keep them around.
Grass - Skymin is a threat irrelevant of the presence of either of the megas. Ferrothorn is weak to your stab and slower than every single member of your team. Not that big of a threat. Mega Venusaur is significantly harder to break.
Steel - Infernape can deal with pretty much everything steel can throw at it, and once Doublade and it's lack of recovery (Seriously not even Lefties) bites the dust, you can pretty much spam STAB.
Electric - The only member of that core that can switch into stronger fighting type attacks is Zapdos. Not that hard to play around.
Fighting - So? You don't need them.
The only situations in which fighting would need either of the megas is to deal with Mega Venusaur and fairy teams. I don't believe that either of those are enough of a reason to keep two extremely influential and destructive mons in the tier. They turn matchups which would otherwise be fairly even into repeatedly sacking things to them and forcing them out. Supporting a ban on both.
Normal - The majority of fighting types will 2HKO Chansey, and you have Conkeldurr if you are worried about it spreading status. It surviving one hit isn't that big of an issue, it's probably a good thing considering how one sided this matchup is.
Flying - Infernape deals with the flying core pretty handily, having access to things like fire blast, flare blitz, stone edge and elemental punches. Terrakion is also very valuable.
Rock - Mega Aggron is incredibly bulky, but has no reliable recovery. Not that hard to beat.
Dragon - Relying on a speed tie to take out a threat is not that great of an option in the first place. Plus Lati@s is a common scarfer. As for Dragonite, Medicham is not the only fighting type to get fake out, nor is it fast enough to run through fighting teams.
Poison - You still have base Medicham, which is not unusable. You do lose the ability to click one button and melt the entirety of poison barring Drapion/Skuntank though. Bad thing? Not necessarily.
Ground - Doesn't change a whole lot.
Bug - Assuming Pinsir doesn't murdur you first.
Water - Yes, but that isn't a reason to keep either of them around.
Grass - Skymin is a threat irrelevant of the presence of either of the megas. Ferrothorn is weak to your stab and slower than every single member of your team. Not that big of a threat. Mega Venusaur is significantly harder to break.
Steel - Infernape can deal with pretty much everything steel can throw at it, and once Doublade and it's lack of recovery (Seriously not even Lefties) bites the dust, you can pretty much spam STAB.
Electric - The only member of that core that can switch into stronger fighting type attacks is Zapdos. Not that hard to play around
After seeing all the discussion I'm just going to summarize my thoughts on the two Psychic/Fighting megas.
Mega Gallade
After a Swords Dance it can sweep a majority of teams unless they happen to have a scarf user with a strong super effective move. It has a combination of speed, bulk, and power that is almost never seen in Pokemon unless we're talking about ubers. While its most common, and arguably most viable set may be Swords Dance, Close Combat, Knock Off, and Psycho Cut, it has many usable options outside of those moves, such as Bulk Up, Drain Punch, the elemental punches, Shadow Sneak, and Zen Headbutt (if you want more power than Psycho Cut and you're feeling lucky)
On Psychic teams- Mega Gallade's options and sweeping potential shine the brightest here. It has plenty of teammates to switch to and take any possible counter that might come up, and plenty of clerics (Mew especially) to heal a burn or paralysis that Mega Gallade might have gotten, allowing it to sweep again even after it's been crippled. On Psychic, simply crippling this thing isn't enough. You have to either KO it before it sets up, or make sure the cleric is gone before you cripple it, something that a good Psychic user would never let happen too easily. Basically, if the cleric is still alive, Gallade can sweep as many times as it likes until it or the cleric are gone, and by then much of your team is gone, or at least dented. I vote ban Mega Gallade from Psychic.
On Fighting teams- Here, Mega Gallade is similar to any other fighter but with a bit more natural speed, bulk, and power. I've tried using it on Fighting teams and, while it is very good, it's just not as broken as I expected it would be. It doesn't have the teammates and support it needs to be broken. Of course it is a huge threat regardless, but if you cripple it with a burn or paralysis, it's basically done for. It also doesn't have teammates that are nearly as bulky as Psychic teams are, so it's much harder to switch it out without losing another member of your team. All in all, I'm neutral towards Mega Gallade's ban from Fighting teams.
Mega Medicham
This thing is the definition of a wallbreaker. Its immediate power is unrivaled in the current metagame as far as I know. Its 100 base speed isn't going to be sweeping any teams, but it's more than enough to do its job, which is destroying anything moderately bulky. Fake Out really helps it with its speed on the turn that it mega evolves, because regular Medicham's base 80 speed is nothing to be proud of. On top of that, the Fake Out helps break sashes and Sturdy, allowing it to KO many opponents on the next turn. It also has access to Bullet Punch, High Jump Kick, the elemental punches, two Psychic STABs, and even Drain Punch if you wanna be gimmicky and run a bulky set (not recommended).
On Psychic teams- Simiar situation to Mega Gallade in that it has the support it needs to be a continuous threat throughout the battle as long as it has a cleric. The difference is that it just can't sweep like Mega Gallade can. It punches holes in teams, but it's extremely easy to revenge kill because almost any offensively inclined pokemon will outspeed and KO it assuming Bullet Punch doesn't KO first (if the Medicham even carries Bullet Punch). Psychic has enough megas and it definitely won't be missing Mega Medicham if it loses it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's worth banning it. The question is whether or not it's too broken to stay legal when it has all the support and all the bulky teammates that Psychic provides. I honestly don't know the answer to that, so I'm going to be neutral on banning Mega Medicham from Psychic.
On Fighting teams- Mega Medicham on a Fighting team is nothing more than what it is, a wallbreaker. It has little, if any support. Conkeldurr can take the status moves thrown at it and Cobalion might be able to paralyze a few opponents with Thunder Wave, but if Mega Medicham happens to be burned or maybe paralyzed, it's not going to serve much use anymore. Same as I said for Psychic teams, it's not capable of sweeping like Mega Gallade can. Punch holes in teams? Absolutely. But, beyond Mega Gallade, it's the best answer Fighting teams have to Poison's walls and tanks, but it's still not a flawless counter.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 242-288 (72.4 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 278-330 (83.2 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If the Weezing survives and gets a Will-o-wisp on Mega Medi, then it's mostly done for the rest of the battle. In short, Mega Medicham is a threat on Fighting teams and it greatly aids the type in working past its disadvantages, but it does so without being too ridiculous. It has serious checks and things that need to be considered before throwing it out there to hit things. I vote don't ban Mega Medicham from Fighting.
These are just my thoughts and what my opinions are. If I missed anything significant in my reasoning, please let me know. Otherwise, that's where I stand on the Psychic/Fighting megas.
Although Terrakion does do a number on Bug, Bug has Sticky Webs, which are incredibly useful against Fighting. It really hates the Speed drop and since ScarfCross is common, it can easily beat Terrakion. Of course, you also have Mega Pinsir which can murder a lot of Fighting as well. So I'd say that Fighting has a slight disadvantage here.
Still on the fence about all this but just remember many of gallades sweeps get stoped after a close combat drop because its not all that bulky and can be revenge killed by scarf users. You say now well booty it can heal it self with drain punch... yes it can but it lacks in base power and is very noticable. My use of these megas have both been purely on psychic and if you want my honest opinion megacham is much more of a threat then gallade it 2hkos most of the tier and has amazing powerful prioritt and also doesnt suffer from drops in def so it can tank a few hits. From what ive seen while testing gallade it really needs a boost to real damage and after a close combat its revenved very easy by scarf users.. shadow sneak is weak in priority and i only carry it ao i dont get swept by scolipede and etc. I dont find it as crazy as everyone else does. Gallade also suffers from 4mms for example in an earlier post arkenciel mentioned that he runs sd sneak knock off and close combat and yes hes swept my psychic team with it b4. Ok so great he tailored it to be a paychic killer but not he is walled by a variety of pokes on poison flying bug dark. I get that its movepool is why its so great but its movepool also limits its greatness at the same time. My vote is no ban for either of them oras is still in its begining stages we have yet to find new ways of dealing with potent threats i think we still need to adapt before a decision is made
Still on the fence about all this but just remember many of gallades sweeps get stoped after a close combat drop because its not all that bulky and can be revenge killed by scarf users. You say now well booty it can heal it self with drain punch... yes it can but it lacks in base power and is very noticable. My use of these megas have both been purely on psychic and if you want my honest opinion megacham is much more of a threat then gallade it 2hkos most of the tier and has amazing powerful prioritt and also doesnt suffer from drops in def so it can tank a few hits. From what ive seen while testing gallade it really needs a boost to real damage and after a close combat its revenved very easy by scarf users.. shadow sneak is weak in priority and i only carry it ao i dont get swept by scolipede and etc. I dont find it as crazy as everyone else does. Gallade also suffers from 4mms for example in an earlier post arkenciel mentioned that he runs sd sneak knock off and close combat and yes hes swept my psychic team with it b4. Ok so great he tailored it to be a paychic killer but not he is walled by a variety of pokes on poison flying bug dark. I get that its movepool is why its so great but its movepool also limits its greatness at the same time. My vote is no ban for either of them oras is still in its begining stages we have yet to find new ways of dealing with potent threats i think we still need to adapt before a decision is made
Shadow Sneak is the same base power as Fake Out or Bullet Punch. Saying Shadow Sneak is "weak priority" while Fake Out and Bullet Punch are "powerful priority" is contradictory. Also, everyone here fully realizes that Gallade without any boosts isn't as powerful as Medicham. The only reason Gallade is considered to be on-par or better than Medicham is that it has the capability to increase its attack using Swords Dance and Bulk Up, something Medicham can't do. After a Swords Dance, Mega Gallade far surpasses Mega Medicham in power, and it also has higher speed and bulk. Saying Medicham can tank hits while Gallade can't is simply not true. If the Gallade user knows his/her Gallade needs to be able to tank a hit, he/she will avoid using Close Combat as long as possible. And if Close Combat is the only logical option to be used, then they can always switch Gallade out later on before the Scarf user KOs it, allowing it to sweep with all of its bulk restored at a later point..
Ok so megacham has a much higher base power unboosted so fake out and bullet punch do much more to start plus double priority plus being able to grab a flinch hence why its much more powerful and better in situations secondly ik most people dont run this but megacham also has bulk up and can boost if thats you arguement. Secondly i never said gallade isnt bulkier then medicham wtf but only its special def way surpases medicham its def isnt anything crazy better then medi neither of them can really tank multiple hits. gallade can better then medicham obviously but its not like night and day when it comes to bulk between them. And yes u can switch out but then this whole point of gallade sweeping becomes mute if it can be revenged by a scarfer lol. I think to need to use it for yourself a decent amount and u will see what im talking about yes gallade is a good late game cleaner but arent most fast fighting pokemon lmao
Alright i'm just gonna be putting my point in here on the whole Mega Gallade argument. I personally have never had a problem with Mega-Gallade with both Fire, Bug and Steel. it was unable to Overwhelm me do to the pokes you can use against it. For Bug it's fairly easy to take out. Steel i just used Skarmory and Mega Metagross to deal with it, since i was just able to Brave Bird it, and with MegaGross i just used Meteor Mash and bullet punch since i was able to survive a cc and shadow sneak. and with MonoFire i usually just V-Created it with Victini. Living a Shadow Sneak. For you guys to personally get a full understanding of Mega Gallade i recommend you going into ladders and battling one yourselves or atleast do a friendly match against one who is Neutral against the banning of Mega Gallade, where they won't be taking it easy on you, after you get a full understanding of the Mega, maybe then you'll have a difference perspective on it, tbh i'm more scared of Mega Medicham than i am of Mega Gallade. same with Mega Metagross. Mega Gallade itself i find to not be such a scary threat within the meta, we have bigger problems to look into, than an overhyped Mega.
