Monotype Viability Rankings V2

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(Poison) B--->C, As mentioned by others, Golbat has only one niche on poison teams and that is as a defogger. The only other viable mons capable of doing this are crobat and skuntank. While Crobat doesn't have the benefit of eviolite, Skuntank easily trumps Golbat, with its natural bulk and coverage. Further, Tentacruel also works well as a hazard control, getting rapid spin. Apart from defogger, there is really no point of Golbat, and so it falls to C in my opinion.

(Flying) Stays C. - Running Mega Pidgeot comes at the cost of dropping mega Zard (or if u choose, mega gyara), which would never make sense. It's only niche is as a hurricane user with no guard, but togekiss with serene grace air slash does equally well on a flying STAB move. Further, it provides no coverage for any weaknesses, and lacks the fighting resistance other flying types have. Doesn't deserve to move up the rankings.

(Fire) Stays A - I may be partial here, but Darmanitan has always been one of my favourite fire types. It is one of the few physical pure fire types, and that can sometimes be really useful. It can be used as a baton pass receiver or a belly drummer, but is best used on sun teams following a drought ninetales or zard y. Under the sun, almost nothing can wall a flare blitz (or even a sheer force fire punch).
Another use for Darmanitan can be as a mixed attacker with Zen mode, which is quite underused. (Agreed, its not as good as sheer force, but why not?). It really can't fall to B
(Ground) D--->C - It has a versatile moveset, and is pretty useful with a rindo berry. Given that it has pretty decent stats, I don't really see why it is dwaddling in D. Sure, it has a similar role to swampert, but the fact that it gets unawae is pretty cool, especially if ur up aganst a cotton guard/ amenesia wall. Should move to C, at least.
(Fighting) No opinion - I haven't used scrafty too often on a fighting mono, so I wouldn't want to give an opinion on this. Although, I don't see what Scrafty can provide that mega hera can't. It's only use on a fighting team would be if you chose to run Mega-/ Medicham/ some other mega. Even then, I'm not sure it would cover a lot, apart from psychic maybe. Indifferent to whether it gets bumped down or not.

(Also, I'm sorta surprised that Kecleon got cleaned out, given that protean is pretty useful. Don' think it belongs in C, but it definitely deserves a D imo)
 
Poison (B to C)- Golbat's main role on poison is a bulky defogger which is outclassed in Defogging by Crobat as it has access to Fast taunt as well as Skunktank whuch can pursuit trap threat such as Hoopa-Unbound and can also use Fire Coverage move for Steel tyoes such as Scizor which can be hard for poison to knock down. C

Flying (C to B)- Pidgeot is outclassed by its other megas such as Gyarados and Charizard which provide invaluable coverage for Flying types such as powerful fire type stab on Charizard and Stab Crunch on Gyarados to help take down types like Psychic with ease as it is high usage in the tier. Pidgeot functions mostly as a pivot and hurricane spamming mon which Tornadus does better in my opinion as it more Bulky and has access to items such as Life Orb and Assault Vest leaving it outclassed even in that regard. C

Fire (A to B)- Darmanitan works as a great late game sweeper on Fire especually with sun boosted Flare Blitz it can do crazy amounts of damage and acts as a physical wallbreaker for fire. But its usage has gone down as there are roles on fire that are more invaluable such a water absorber in Volcanion, a psychic sweeper in Volcarona, hazard removers in Charizard Y and have access to trick room with Chandelure and the much more powerful Stab V-Create in Victini that acts as a faster Scarfed Sweeper and acts as a great pivot pokemon and can deal with water types in bolt strike and energy ball leaving Darmanitan outclassed by other fire options in the current metagame. B

Ground (D to C)- Quagsire acts as an unaware pokemon for Ground that can help stop setup sweepers and can spread status around with toxic and easily recover any damage taken from attacks. Quagsire works for Ground as a great setup stopper but takes away the slot for Gastrodon/Seismitoad which are important water absorb pokemon which if you carried both would make the team to grass weak. D

Fighting (C to D)- Fighting can barely fit scrafty on the team unless specifically built around and its bulk up amnesia set barely works in monotype and is to slow to act as a proper dragon dance sweeper. Scrafty does provide a psychic immunity for the type however it can barely use it as many pokemon on psychic can knock it out with psychic stab such as Medichams HJK, Victinis Final Gambit, Gardevoirs Hyper Voice and many more. D
 
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Bug (Unranked to D)- With the recent Core Challenges I have seen the ability Escavalier has as it bulk can ohko common threats such as Tyranitar with Megahorn and can wall many Special Attacks AV. This pokemon can function really well in TR which usually due to Webs bug doesnt do to well in. This pokemon is a great pursuit trapper and while it may not have steel priority its good bulk makes up for it.
 
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Bug (Unranked to D)- With the recent Core Challenges I have seen the ability Escavalier has as it has great bulk can ohko common threats such as Tyranitar with Megahorn and it has incredible bulk with AV. This pokemon can function really well in TR which usually due to Weba bug doesnt do to well in. This pokemon is a great pursuit trapper and while it may not have steel priority its good bulk makes up for it.
This needs to happen IMO. Whilst is undoubtedly worse than Scizor., I have personally using the Banded set (the only set I know and can use) and loved every minute of it. Whilst all Scizors are faster, Escav is easily more powerful, bulkier and has better coverage (Ground>Fighting IMO).
 
This needs to happen IMO. Whilst is undoubtedly worse than Scizor., I have personally using the Banded set (the only set I know and can use) and loved every minute of it. Whilst all Scizors are faster, Escav is easily more powerful, bulkier and has better coverage (Ground>Fighting IMO).
Scizor is much stronger, has more helpful type coverage options, access to priority and recovery, a pretty decent base speed stat and is realistically, just better in nearly every aspect than Escavalier. However, I do agree that it deserves some recognition on Bug as D Rank, stemming from its utilization in the current Core Challenge. When it has a little speed investment and access to Webs, it is an incredibly dangerous Pokemon.
 
Sorry about going off topic but:
(Fighting) Unranked -> C
Speed Boost Combusken allows Fighting to win a variety of matchups that it normally cannot and offers a lot of role compression despite taking up a team slot. Combusken + Medicham core is extremely dangerous as passing +1 or +2 to Medicham lets it sweep through teams that don't have one of the very few Medicham counters. Combusken allows Fighting to overcome faster scarfers that destroy it such as Scarf Latios or defeat swift swim teams by passing +1 to one of your own Scarfers. It certainly has its weakness for instance its usually dead weight against some match-ups but it gives Fighting the means to overcome match-ups that it can't overcome normally.
 
Sorry about going off topic but:
(Fighting) Unranked -> C
Speed Boost Combusken allows Fighting to win a variety of matchups that it normally cannot and offers a lot of role compression despite taking up a team slot. Combusken + Medicham core is extremely dangerous as passing +1 or +2 to Medicham lets it sweep through teams that don't have one of the very few Medicham counters. Combusken allows Fighting to overcome faster scarfers that destroy it such as Scarf Latios or defeat swift swim teams by passing +1 to one of your own Scarfers. It certainly has its weakness for instance its usually dead weight against some match-ups but it gives Fighting the means to overcome match-ups that it can't overcome normally.
Combusken is cool, but I'd probably put it at D, bc outside of speed passing, there isn't anything else it can really do. Trying Combusken for myself, I can agree with you that it does have a degree of viability, at least.
 
Sorry about going off topic but:
(Fighting) Unranked -> C
Speed Boost Combusken allows Fighting to win a variety of matchups that it normally cannot and offers a lot of role compression despite taking up a team slot. Combusken + Medicham core is extremely dangerous as passing +1 or +2 to Medicham lets it sweep through teams that don't have one of the very few Medicham counters. Combusken allows Fighting to overcome faster scarfers that destroy it such as Scarf Latios or defeat swift swim teams by passing +1 to one of your own Scarfers. It certainly has its weakness for instance its usually dead weight against some match-ups but it gives Fighting the means to overcome match-ups that it can't overcome normally.
Combusken is a cool niche speed boost pokemon that can pass speed into Pokemon such as Mega Gallade/Medicham or Breloom. But fighting limits team building because of the many roles each pokemon plays that are to invaluable not to use on fighting monotypes. So it in my opinion should fall into D or Unranked Category for fighting as it provides almost no niche or use to fighting aside from speed pass in a type with strong fast scarfers such as Heracross and Terrakion.
 
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Vid

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Quick Update on Ranking Discussions
For now Rankings discussions will be on hold because of the quality of them was rather poor. Guidelines will soon be posted for ranking discussions, which should be posted by next week. This is being done in an effort to hopefully increase the quality of Rankings Discussions.
For now feel free to discuss whatever you'd like.
Viability Revamp
The lower rankings of Viability rankings did not reflect how good the Pokemon was. Most of them were this person used it successfully or what the Pokemon can do in theory, so the council decided to do a mini revamp of the lower rankings.
If you have any questions on these changes: Please direct them to Zarif, Wanka, or myself
***Please Note some Ranking Discussion #10 Pokemon changes are in here
Vaporeon (Water) D--->Unranked
Abomasnow (Grass) D--->Unranked
Amoonguss (Grass) D--->C
Galvantula (Electric) D--->Unranked
Mega-Alakazam (Psychic) B---->C
Uxie (Psychic) D--->C
Sigilyph (Psychic) D--->Unranked
Metagross (Psychic) C--->D
Cresselia (Psychic) C--->D
Malamar (Psychic) D--->Unranked
Delphox (Psychic) D--->Unranked
Aurorus (Ice) C--->B
Zoroark (Dark) C--->D
Cacturne (Dark) C--->D
Yanmega (Flying) C--->D
Mega-Pidgeot (Flying) C--->D
Tornadus-I (Flying) C---->D
Mandibuzz (Flying) C--->D
Staraptor (Flying) C--->D
Xatu (Flying) D--->Unranked
Golbat (Poison) B--->C
Amoonguss (Poison) C--->B
Thundurus-T (Electric) C--->D
Registeel D--->Unranked
 
Sorry about going off topic but:
Unranked -> C
Speed Boost Combusken allows Fighting to win a variety of matchups that it normally cannot and offers a lot of role compression despite taking up a team slot. Combusken + Medicham core is extremely dangerous as passing +1 or +2 to Medicham lets it sweep through teams that don't have one of the very few Medicham counters. Combusken allows Fighting to overcome faster scarfers that destroy it such as Scarf Latios or defeat swift swim teams by passing +1 to one of your own Scarfers. It certainly has its weakness for instance its usually dead weight against some match-ups but it gives Fighting the means to overcome match-ups that it can't overcome normally.
Honestly conbusken should leave unranked , with his nice niche of speed boost pokemon i would put it on D too , not bad at all but pretty underwhelming if you ask me
 
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Vid

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Ranking Discussion General Guidelines
  • Only 3 Pokemon will be up for discussion at a time
  • Be in-depth with arguments use calcs to support your argument
  • Consider opportunity cost: Does the Pokemon only work on certain archetypes and builds? Does another Pokemon perform similar role, but better? Does the Pokemon require significant amount of support to function?
  • Saying a person used the Pokemon successfully on the ladder is not a good reason to rank a Pokemon higher, so please don’t use it as an argument
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First, I found a post and I agree with Quagsire and Diggersby as an example

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****Please Note this is not everything that should be considered when posting
(Sprite) Pokemon(Type) X Rank--->Y Rank
Overview
-What does the Pokemon do?
-What is the Pokemon’s niche?
Justification for X Rank--->Y Rank
-Opportunity cost (mostly with Megas and other forms)
-What archetype is it best on? Is the archetype viable? (mostly applies to lower rank Pokemon)
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Pokemon (Type) X Rank--->Y Rank
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Please PM a VR Council member if you have any questions regarding the revamp
Gyarados (Water) A--->B
Suicune (Water) B--->C
Crawdaunt (Dark) A--->B
Latias (Psychic) B--->C
Politoed B-->A
Ninetales (Fire) C-->D
Mega-Houndoom (Fire) C--->D
Chandelure (Fire) B--->C
Fletchinder (Fire) B--->C
Darmanitan (Fire) A--->B
Rotom-H (Fire) A--->B
Bronzong (Steel) C--->D
Mawile (Fairy) Unranked-->D
Sylveon (Fairy) B--->A
Slurpuff (Fairy) B--->C
Heliolisk (Electric) D--->Unranked
Articuno (Flying) C--->D
Volbeat (Bug) D--->Unranked
Quagsire (Ground) C--->D
Combusken (Fighting) Unranked--->D
Torterra (Ground) Unranked--->D
Rhyperior (Ground) D---->Unranked
Zygarde (Ground) Unranked--->C
Nidoqueen (Ground) D--->Unranked
Froslass (Ghost) Unranked--->C
Mismagius (Ghost) Unranked--->D
Slowking (Water) Unranked--->D
Virizion (Fighting) D--->Unranked
Scrafty (Fighting) C--->D
Crawdaunt (Water) C--->D
 
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Meloetta (Normal) A--->B
Disagree, Meloetta is one of the few special wallbreakers on normal teams. I will be specifically talking about specs meloetta. It's typing and coverage is really useful when vsing types such as fighting, poison, grass, and psychic. It's good bulk and good special attack allow it to threaten many walls that normal wouldnt be able to handle alone, as it is a more physical attack oriented type. It's strong focus blasts help deal with many mons that normal wouldnt be able to break alone. A great example would be curse resttalk mega aggron, mega steelix, and snorlax. And it's typing and natural bulk allow it to survive most fighting moves, and KO fighting mons back with its psychic STAB. The only other good special wallbreakers on normal are heliolisk and mega pidgeot. Mega pidgeot comes at the opportunity cost of not running mega lopunny, a mega that in my opinion completely outclasses it. And heliolisk while great, has a typing that normal does not benefit from, and is very frail.

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 105-126 (30.5 - 36.6%) -- 53.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 241-285 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 330-390 (90.9 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%)


Mega-Scizor (Steel) S--->A
Disagree, Mega-Scizor has such great bulk that it's ability to be able to take damage, and then heal itself is a huge benefit to steel monos. It's access to SD and a STAB technician boosted bullet punch comes clutch for late game sweeping. It also gains the team momentum with u-turn, and can break cores that steel might have trouble with, like the normal core. And with a +2 bullet punch it deals heavy damage, and can potentially sweep teams that steel would have a disadvantage to, like ground, dragon, and fighting. (Ill include calcs to show how it can beat major threats in those types.) It is one of the few mons on steel that has access to priority. I personally don't think mega scizor's role on steel can be compared or replaced by any other mon, maybe durant because of it's same typing, but thats not a very viable mon at all. And mega scizor can be run on any type of steel build, whether it be stall or HO, it's great typing and coverage earns it a slot on all types of teams.

+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 328-388 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 262-309 (80.6 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 262-309 (82.1 - 96.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 249-294 (69.7 - 82.3%)
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 130-153 (40.2 - 47.3%)
 

Vid

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Meloetta (Normal) A--->B
Disagree, Meloetta is one of the few special wallbreakers on normal teams. I will be specifically talking about specs meloetta. It's typing and coverage is really useful when vsing types such as fighting, poison, grass, and psychic. It's good bulk and good special attack allow it to threaten many walls that normal wouldnt be able to handle alone, as it is a more physical attack oriented type. It's strong focus blasts help deal with many mons that normal wouldnt be able to break alone. A great example would be curse resttalk mega aggron, mega steelix, and snorlax. And it's typing and natural bulk allow it to survive most fighting moves, and KO fighting mons back with its psychic STAB. The only other good special wallbreakers on normal are heliolisk and mega pidgeot. Mega pidgeot comes at the opportunity cost of not running mega lopunny, a mega that in my opinion completely outclasses it. And heliolisk while great, has a typing that normal does not benefit from, and is very frail.

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 105-126 (30.5 - 36.6%) -- 53.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 241-285 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psychic vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 330-390 (90.9 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%)


Mega-Scizor (Steel) S--->A
Disagree, Mega-Scizor has such great bulk that it's ability to be able to take damage, and then heal itself is a huge benefit to steel monos. It's access to SD and a STAB technician boosted bullet punch comes clutch for late game sweeping. It also gains the team momentum with u-turn, and can break cores that steel might have trouble with, like the normal core. And with a +2 bullet punch it deals heavy damage, and can potentially sweep teams that steel would have a disadvantage to, like ground, dragon, and fighting. (Ill include calcs to show how it can beat major threats in those types.) It is one of the few mons on steel that has access to priority. I personally don't think mega scizor's role on steel can be compared or replaced by any other mon, maybe durant because of it's same typing, but thats not a very viable mon at all. And mega scizor can be run on any type of steel build, whether it be stall or HO, it's great typing and coverage earns it a slot on all types of teams.

+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 328-388 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 262-309 (80.6 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 262-309 (82.1 - 96.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 249-294 (69.7 - 82.3%)
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 130-153 (40.2 - 47.3%)
Normally I don't post on the quality of posts in the VR but now I feel like it's right time. I know I was vague about using calcs to enhance your argument and I should have been more specific, but this was not what I was expecting.
Although I do agree with the ideas stated above in current VR, the way they are presented is terrible
Meloetta

The examples stated for what Meloetta beats for normal are irrelevant (Mega Aggron being only relevant one on Rock-type teams). Curse Snorlax although very threatening is not a valid reason to use Meloetta because of the high opportunity cost Snorlax has on Normal-type teams. Mega Steelix is in a similar situation but it's checkable even without Meloetta and even if there was no way to "beat" Mega Steelix without Meloetta, it is very uncommon on Ground and Steel teams. Examples of this include Choice Banded Diggersby and even Mega Lopunny 2 Hit KO without needing to rely on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy. The reason to use Mega Pidgeot is because unlike Mega Lopunny it isn't a sitting duck against Psychic, most common type. Mega Pidgeot and Lopunny preform different roles and are good in different matchups similar to other Megas such as Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir on Psychic. The calcs presented do not explain why they are important, it felt as if the calcs were placed there to do the talking with no explanation to why they relevant. Although I do not like most of the calcs presented, one is a very good example was Choice Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword not OHKOing Meloetta. This is a very good calc because Normal has a tough time with Keldeo and having something that can take a hit and KO is very nice. But the other calcs are flawed and with no explanation are easily broken down. For Example one could Choice Band Wild Charge Diggersby and 2 Hit Ko Slowbro as well making the reason to use Meloetta for Slowbro invalid. With Mega Venusaur most normal type teams carry flying type attacks even the weakest of flying-type attacks from defensive Staraptor do over 50% to the standard Mega Venusaur spread making the point even weaker. If an offensive Staraptor is ran or Mega Pidgeot, Meloetta beating Mega Venusaur is irrelevant.
0 Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 212-252 (58.4 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Scizor

I am on the fence about this one because Scizor is splashable Pokemon on steel. Splashable meaning it isn't needed but is really easy to fit on Steel. One of points made Steel has trouble with Normal-type teams which is untrue. The opposite is true because outside of Mega Lopunny and Close Combat Staraptor Normal lacks a reliable Bisharp answer. Sure Mega Lopunny plus Diggersby arechallenging for a steel-type team to deal with, but a combination of Bisharp and hazards is just as if not more threatening. Mega Scizor does help with Normal matchup Steel, it is incorrect to say Steel has a bad matchup against Normal without Mega Scizor. The points made about Dragon and Ground are true and is one of best things about the post. The points made about Fighting however are untrue because a combination of Doublade, Skarmory, Heatran (if running Infernape), and Mega Scizor are needed to even have a chance of winning the Fighting matchup and even then the steel-type team can be swept. Durant and Scizor preform different roles and it should have been mentioned if anything comes close to Scizor's role as a cleaner it should have been Bisharp because of priority (Sucker Punch), access to Swords Dance, and strong STAB moves. (Even then nothing compares to Mega Scizor, Durant made the argument weaker and overall felt added to follow the consideration which is most likely my fault for being vague on the guidelines). Stall steel was mentioned, but it isn't a viable build and is very misleading, as it implies stall steal is viable archetype. Most of what people consider "stall steel" is balanced steel with bulkier Pokemon such as Ferrothorn instead of Magnezone or Excadrill. The calcs are all over the place and often contradict each other because there is no explanation behind the calcs. Starting of with Porygon-2 the calc seems fine on paper, but when a similar calc can be done with Bisharp, which then makes it becomes a terrible calc to showcase and without explanation it seems even worse. Then on to Hydregion I know most Dragon users today EV their Hydregion to take a Bullet Punch after Stealth Rocks (or give it an extremely small chance to OHKO after Rocks) so the calc seems only good for inexperienced players that have not played the metagame often, but could have passed with explanation. With Lando-I the calc seems alright on paper, but isn't Mega Garchomp first choice to take on a plus 2 Bullet Punch from Mega Scizor. On Flying-type teams Lando-I should not be used to check Mega Scizor when you have Skarmory, Zapdos and even Mega Charizard-Y to check Mega Scizor. The Garchomp calc is next which is irrelevant and hurts the argument meaning the Garchomp can live from and assuming that's Life Orb OHKO with Fire Blast. I know calcs should be used to make the argument that is being presented better, but using a calc for sake of using one is not ok. The Terrakion calc seems to be sprinkled in to make Mega Scizor look better. This is because Doublade and Skarmory are better answers to Terrakion on Steel and either set up Swords Dance (Doublade) or Spikes (Skarmory). The Keldeo calc seems out of place and needs to be explained on why it is important because without explanation or a person reading it with significant knowledge on the metagame, the calc is hurting the argument.
Please anybody using calcs use relevant calcs and explain them. Let the calcs be an example not the whole reason you disagree or agree.
Please do not let this post discourage you from disagreeing or agreeing with current rank discussion
I take full responsibility
for this kind of thing happening because I was very vague on the guidelines I recently made.
 
Meloetta (Normal) A--->B
Disagree. Meloetta fills a plethora of roles on Normal Monotype teams that no other Pokemon can truly come close to managing, let alone actually succeeding in. Overall, the Pokemon has incredible Special Bulk, decent Physical Bulk and an excellent Special Attack stat that is the third highest that Normal Monotype has access to, behind its rival Porygon-Z as well as Mega Pidgeot. Meloetta also holds a very unique typing in Normal/Psychic, which in turn gives Normal Monotype access to not only another Fighting neutral Pokemon that is also super-effective against said typing, but one that has different weaknesses as well as neutrality to Stealth Rock. From a Defensive standpoint, it cannot match the work that Pokemon such as Staraptor and Chansey can put in for Normal teams, however, Meloetta truly shines through its Wall-breaking, Stall-breaking and Set-Up potential. Thanks to its Secondary typing of Psychic and relatively high Special Attack stat, Meloetta is a powerful option for handling Normal's toughest weaknesses, especially Fighting. Where Porygon-Z, Heliolisk and Mega Pidgeot can be great options for Normal teams, each of these Pokemon limit the type in ways that Meloetta would not. For example, Porygon-Z, though it has access to a multitude of different movepool, item, and EV options that can be both effective and deadly, in the end it is still restricted to its single typing and rather, average bulk. Heliolisk on the other-hand is horribly limited in its moveset and doesn't hold nearly the same Wall-breaking potential that the aforementioned Pokemon have. Although it has a unique typing in Normal/Electric, the coverage that it provides is not as helpful, nor as vital in a majority of Normal's matchups, it has rather poor bulk overall leading to greater opportunity cost and its only truly viable option is as an Offensive pivot. Lastly, with Mega Pidgeot, it is apparent that it fills the role of being a very fast Special Wall-breaker for Normal teams. No other Pokemon can match Mega Pidgeot in this respect outright and the only way Normal can achieve that potential without using Mega Pidgeot would be if the team used Choice Scarfed Porygon-Z or Meloetta. However, it does carry the obvious cost of the Mega slot, which could be filled by the equally, if not more lethal Mega Lopunny and holds a similar bulk to that of Porygon-Z. Regarding Meloetta, it finds its best niche in being a bulky, Special threat option that has a similar diversity in moveset, item, and EV options as Porygon-Z, while containing an extremely beneficial typing for Normal teams, just as Mega Pidgeot does. Meloetta also alleviates the hassle of forfeiting the mega slot while not being mainly limited to Choiced Attacking as Porygon-Z and Heliolisk commonly are. Offensively, because it has access to the amazing typing of Psychic, it not only is neutral to Normal's only weakness of Fighting, but it also hits it and Poison very hard. Not to mention, it is also neutral to Psychic which is helpful just through Psychic's usage and strength against Normal Monotype alone. Meloetta also has access to the great move Focus Blast, which, Focus Miss memes aside, besides Heliolisk, is the only Special threat above C Rank that actually has this option. This is important because generally speaking, two fairly relevant matchups, Dark and Steel, are either even or favored against Normal. Barring Meloetta's obvious weakness to Dark type moves, it allows Normal teams an additional threat in managing these two types that is Special, rather than Physical. In overall matchups, Meloetta has great moveset options; Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Hidden Power Fire, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, etc., that aid Normal in combatting and succeeding against the types that are currently considered to be the best, i.e. Flying, Psychic, Steel and Water. No matter what set is run, whether it be Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Substitute + Calm Mind, Assault Vest or even other Bulky variants, with its considerable diversity and exceptional presence within the metagame, Meloetta has no need to be carried by its team, rather, it can become its team's carry as an integral part of Normal Monotype teams. With that, Meloetta should remain A Rank.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 362-428 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 374-440 (94.9 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Meloetta Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 220-260 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 284-335 (85 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 408-484 (101.2 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 294-348 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 326-384 (92.6 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Zapdos: 186-220 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 159-188 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 271-321 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 219-258 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Mew: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 250-295 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recover
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 244-288 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 8 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 324-382 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Mew: 210-248 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta in Rain: 195-229 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta in Sun: 169-199 (41.8 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 246-290 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- 59.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 228-270 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 241-285 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Apologies if this is a tad lengthy, but after seeing Vid's response to Waszap, I figured this needed to have a lot of thought and writing put into it.
 
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Mega-Scizor (Steel) S--->A
I also Disagree for some different reasons than what was mentioned above. Calcs aside, the main reasons to use Mega-Scizor are:
-- No real competition for the Mega slot (Mawile/Gross/Lucario are all banned, and Steelix/Aggron are terrible on steel)
-- Helps to eat fighting/ground attacks, being neutral to both
-- Strong priority, coupled with Swords Dance lets you focus EVs on defenses
-- Gets Recover, Defog and U-Turn as well as pretty good special bulk, allowing it to support your team

It is true that steel teams would still be effective if they didn't use Mega-Scizor, but for the reasons above there really is no reason not to run it.
Sableye (Ghost) A---->S


Agreed
; after the ban of Mega-Sableye, there really is no other way to make Ghost a playable type than to run Sableye. Not that Ghost is very playable to begin with nowadays, but a Ghost/Dark type is essential to mitigate Knock-Off damage, and no other ghost types (apart from Spiritomb) are weak to fairy moves giving you great type synergy. Unlike Spiritomb, this thing provides excellent support in the form of priority Taunt/WoW, and can even be run w/ no item to make it the best Knock-Off absorber possible on the type. Plus, there's no reason you can't run this alongside Spiritomb anyway.

To summarize:
Sableye (Ghost) A---->S
Mega-Scizor (Steel) should stay S
 

Vid

The Trilogy
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Change(s) Ranking Discussion #12
  • (Ghost) A---->S
(Normal) A--->B Wanka and I discussed this a while back and came to the conclusion that Ditto should be B Rank because of how inconsistent Ditto is. I've also discussed this with Zarif and he came to a similar conclusion.
(Bug) A--->B High oppurnity cost and preforms a similar role to regular Scizor. Its niche is bulky SD Roost set, which one could argue Scizor can do just well.
***Calcs are not necessary in a ranking discussion post, but if calcs are used, please read bellow.
If calcs are used in ranking discussion post please only use a few strong ones.
What is a Good Calc?
A good calc is something that specific Pokemon can only do. This calc should only consider top-tier threats mostly and avoid using unviable or uncommon Pokemon in the calc.
What is a Bad Calc?

Simply put the calc is irrelevant. The calc either shows a Pokemon lives X attack from Y Pokemon, but other Pokemon can wall Y Pokemon. These Calcs are mostly used to make the Pokemon look better.
An example of a Good Calc
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This a great Example for Meloetta because Normal teams struggle against Keldeo and having a Pokemon that can take a hit and revenge kill it is valuable
Bad Calc Example
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 132-156 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This calc is irrelevant because Skarmory and Doublade effectively "wall" Terrakion with ease.
What should be done with Good Calcs?
A good calc is great, but the calc should be briefly explained and why is it relevant. This encourages only the best calcs to be shown because explaining calcs takes effort.
Quality Concerns
  • Be concise (Your post doesn't need to be an essay but it shouldn't be a sentence for each Pokemon)
  • Opportunity Cost should be considered Questions such as; Is Pokemon viable on most builds? Does the Pokemon make an archetype viable(Is the archetype itself viable?)? Is the Pokemon easy to fit on a team? (To name a Few)
  • Don't use calcs just for sake of making Pokemon look better (Calcs are optional)
  • Explain the significance of the calcs (if used)
Ranking Discussion #13
  • (Water) A---->B
  • (Electric) A---->B
  • (Bug) S---->A
***This will be last Ranking Discussion for ORAS
 
My thoughts on the pokemon above:


  • Starmie is a good pokemon at what it does, but the problem is more that it is either outclassed by more prominent attackers (keldeo/manaphy), better revenge killers (azumarill/mega-shark), or is often more of a liability w/ psychic typing (weak to sucker punch / shadow sneak and not exactly bulky). Its stats are good but not great (base 100 spA pales in comparison to what the S-ranks and other A-ranks can do offensively). Its greatest niche, Rapid Spin, can be done by Tentacruel almost as well, and water also has access to Empoleon for hazard control. Ultimately, this is a jack-of-all-trades mon that is really a master of none, and unless you need a speedy rapid spinner this is never really a must-have pokemon. Agree with moving from A -> B rank.


  • For Electric to even be viable in the metagame, the 3 S-ranks are a must, with Magnezone as a virtual lock for a team slot. Raikou's biggest problem is that it is competing for a teamslot with 2 megas (which are both good), 3 different physical-oriented pokemon that each bring something unique to the team, and Jolteon which is a faster and weaker version of Raikou that can Baton Pass. Of course, Raikou brings some things that are unique as well (Extrasensory/Aura Sphere are the biggest of note, but its SubCM set is dangerous as well). But by putting Raikou on the team you are either saying no to a Mega (one of which is arguably a better "fast special attacker" role), a physical attacker, or one of the 4 best pokemon on the type. Opportunity cost alone is enough to agree with moving from A -> B rank.

  • This is the hardest decision of the 3... while it's true Bug/Flying typing does nothing for your team defensively, it is such an offensive presence that it forces your opponent to play more carefully in order to ensure that this thing doesn't get a free turn to SD. In the same vein, however, it is not an absolute necessity for Bug teams like Armaldo or Volcarona or Scizor would be. I could ultimately see this going either way, but am inclined to disagree and keep it in S-rank due only to its presence as an offensive juggernaut. Mega-Pinsir is also the best mega overall for bug, as Mega-Hera requires you to team-build around it (though it can be equally dangerous), while Mega-Scizor's job could arguably be done just as well as Scizor.

    On a separate note, any word on Melo and Mega-Scizor (steel) from the previous round?
 
Change(s) Ranking Discussion #12
  • (Ghost) A---->S
My thoughts on the pokemon above:


  • Starmie is a good pokemon at what it does, but the problem is more that it is either outclassed by more prominent attackers (keldeo/manaphy), better revenge killers (azumarill/mega-shark), or is often more of a liability w/ psychic typing (weak to sucker punch / shadow sneak and not exactly bulky). Its stats are good but not great (base 100 spA pales in comparison to what the S-ranks and other A-ranks can do offensively). Its greatest niche, Rapid Spin, can be done by Tentacruel almost as well, and water also has access to Empoleon for hazard control. Ultimately, this is a jack-of-all-trades mon that is really a master of none, and unless you need a speedy rapid spinner this is never really a must-have pokemon. Agree with moving from A -> B rank.


  • For Electric to even be viable in the metagame, the 3 S-ranks are a must, with Magnezone as a virtual lock for a team slot. Raikou's biggest problem is that it is competing for a teamslot with 2 megas (which are both good), 3 different physical-oriented pokemon that each bring something unique to the team, and Jolteon which is a faster and weaker version of Raikou that can Baton Pass. Of course, Raikou brings some things that are unique as well (Extrasensory/Aura Sphere are the biggest of note, but its SubCM set is dangerous as well). But by putting Raikou on the team you are either saying no to a Mega (one of which is arguably a better "fast special attacker" role), a physical attacker, or one of the 4 best pokemon on the type. Opportunity cost alone is enough to agree with moving from A -> B rank.

  • This is the hardest decision of the 3... while it's true Bug/Flying typing does nothing for your team defensively, it is such an offensive presence that it forces your opponent to play more carefully in order to ensure that this thing doesn't get a free turn to SD. In the same vein, however, it is not an absolute necessity for Bug teams like Armaldo or Volcarona or Scizor would be. I could ultimately see this going either way, but am inclined to disagree and keep it in S-rank due only to its presence as an offensive juggernaut. Mega-Pinsir is also the best mega overall for bug, as Mega-Hera requires you to team-build around it (though it can be equally dangerous), while Mega-Scizor's job could arguably be done just as well as Scizor.

    On a separate note, any word on Melo and Mega-Scizor (steel) from the previous round?
I'm assuming since they are not listed in 'Changes' they ended up not changing in rank. Will post my own VR thoughts soon, no essay this time.
 
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