Monotype Viability Rankings

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Acast

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Hitting hard is not enough for it to escape D rank. Diggersby and Staraptor already do that, and do it better, without having the potentially game-losing turn of Truant.
Then just don't use Giga Impact and it's not a "game-losing turn". You can always switch it out. If you sack a pokemon by switching out, then you can bring Slaking back in again the next turn and nuke something else with Retaliate. Rinse and repeat until all the serious threats are out of the way.
 
Slaking's the only viable Pursuit user (Normal). Also, setting up isn't that big of a deal for Normal since they get Ditto. I say a B / C range for Slaking tho, Matt, go change my mind xD
 

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Then just don't use Giga Impact and it's not a "game-losing turn". You can always switch it out. If you sack a pokemon by switching out, then you can bring Slaking back in again the next turn and nuke something else with Retaliate. Rinse and repeat until all the serious threats are out of the way.
Switching out is still a dead turn. Your opponent could boost and outspeed it, substitute, etc. Anyways, my main point is that there is already a better wallbreaker in Staraptor that nearly hits as hard in one turn, and definitely hits much harder in two turns. There is no need to use Slaking as a wallbreaker.


edit:
Anttyaz Staraptor can pursuit, and Slaking don't even run pursuit anyways, as why risk using a 40 BP unstabbed move when you're immobilized next turn?
Setting up in terms of stat boosts is not the only problem, there is also substitute or setting up hazards, and Ditto has to lock itself into one move, which is very predictable for the opponent.
 
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Acast

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(just picked a random Pokemon here..)

252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 492-579 (128.1 - 150.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO two- turn move

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 370-436 (96.3 - 113.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 382-450 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

It has no niche.
252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Retaliate vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Zapdos: 417-492 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO one-turn move
 

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252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Retaliate vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Zapdos: 417-492 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO one-turn move

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if Slaking has to stay in or not. It is still a free, dead turn, giga impact or not, because Slaking is immobilized the second turn.
 
Switching out is still a dead turn. Your opponent could boost and outspeed it, substitute, etc.


edit:
Anttyaz Staraptor can pursuit, and Slaking don't even run pursuit anyways, as why risk using a 40 BP unstabbed move when you're immobilized next turn?
Setting up in terms of stat boosts is not the only problem, there is also substitute or setting up hazards, and Ditto has to lock itself into one move, which is very predictable for the opponent.
Staraptor would never run Pursuit lol. Slaking forces a lot of switches which is why Pursuit's somewhat viable. (Flying user has a choiced Lando-I, he sees Slaking come in and he's afraid that it's scarfed so he switches out and gets Pursuited.) Normal has the great walls, and Porygon2 to absorb almost everything. Cinccino can come in if the substitute is obvious and use some multi hit moves to break the Sub. Special Hazard setters are pretty rare so Staraptor can come right in a Defog. As for the Ditto stuff, most types don't have OP walls to take predicted moves.

Edit: This is so messy that it's hurting me :[
 

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Staraptor would never run Pursuit lol. Slaking forces a lot of switches which is why Pursuit's somewhat viable. (Flying user has a choiced Lando-I, he sees Slaking come in and he's afraid that it's scarfed so he switches out and gets Pursuited.) Normal has the great walls, and Porygon2 to absorb almost everything. Cinccino can come in if the substitute is obvious and use some multi hit moves to break the Sub. Special Hazard setters are pretty rare so Staraptor can come right in a Defog. As for the Ditto stuff, most types don't have OP walls to take predicted moves.

Edit: This is so messy that it's hurting me :[

Pursuit on Slaking is gimmicky just as you say Pursuit on Staraptor is gimmicky. Neither pokemon runs pursuit. You can apply the same situation to Staraptor.
 
Hitting hard is not enough for it to escape D rank. Diggersby and Staraptor already do that, and do it better, without having the potentially game-losing turn of Truant.


252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Zapdos: 448-528 (116.6 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Two-Turn move

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Zapdos: 337-397 (87.7 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Zapdos: 348-409 (90.6 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

It has no niche.
While I respectfully see your point, You're making the mistake of sending it in to just hit with a banded Giga Impact and then letting it simmer and be set up on or hit hard. When rather there is Retaliate which loses only 10 Base Power. 10 BP is Constrict damage. Retaliate after saccing something like Smeargle, or losing perhaps a Porygon2 allows Slaking to quickly come in and prevent a sweep, OHKOing most things with a STAB 140 retaliate. And then, previously stated, switching into something like Chansey, or even Ditto.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if Slaking has to stay in or not. It is still a free, dead turn, giga impact or not, because Slaking is immobilized the second turn.

Also, Truant does not force Slaking to stay in unless you use Giga Impact, which in the situation we're speaking, G.I. isn't being used. You can then switch to a scarf ditto or a Chansey/Blissey
 
Pursuit on Slaking is gimmicky just as you say Pursuit on Staraptor is gimmicky. You can apply the same situation to Staraptor.
Slaking is forced to run a Dark move to hit Ghosts that have Levitate whereas Staraptor has the moveset it needs to be OPPP. Besides, any Ghost team with Aegislash will try and switch into it since Aegi is the perfect Slaking counter
 

Beta.

Ruff Ruff amirite?
Thing is, and I should've said this earlier, but Thundy-T and Thundy-I have very different roles in the sense of what they do. As you said, Thundy-I is the glue of the team, in a sense of the word, and has great support and can sweep well. However, Thundy-T is mostly a Rkiller, not a sweeper either. It can also be used to form a fearsome VoltTurn core with Staraptor or Lando-T, which Thundy-I does not do as well as its Therian partner. It really is impossible to say that one outclasses the other, but I do strongly feel that Therian has more uses than Incarnate. Just because it is Choice locked does not mean it is bad; this is an argument I have heard many times, which is not necessarily true. Do not agree with AFD that Incarnate deserves B-Rank, A-Rank is where it should be. It is very powerful and has unmatched utility, proving its A-Rank.

P.S. Exactly how can Incarnate switch in easier than Therian? Therian has that neat Volt Absorb, and they have very similar defenses. I fail to see any situation where Incarnate switches in easier than Therian.
I apologize in advanced, I will be addressing both you and AFD at once, but not going to Quote his post. While it is true that they both have different roles, you still have to compare them, because they are the same mon. You can't have both on the same team, so you try to go for which one is better. I didn't say it was bad because it was choice locked, yet I am trying to say it is limited because of this choice lock. It is true that it does good on volt turn, and that's good, revenge killing is good, but as I said earlier, it can't switch in as easily, to which I will now reply to AFD and you. While Therian does have that good volt absorb, that is it's best bet to switch in, which only does it good against electric teams. While AFD says that it can switch in to electric while not having the 4x weakness to ice, you also have to remember it's defenses. They're the same for both I and T, keep this in mind. 70 in defense, and 80 in special defense. So these are the usage sets for Thundy-T and Mega Manectric, the most common mega on thunder teams (source, the stats)

252 SpA Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 136-162 (45.3 - 54%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO

What Thundy-t's Niche is is the electric immunity, but sometimes, they won't use thunderbolt, sometimes they will use HP ice, which is very common on electric teams. Like, extremely common. Many mons run HP ice every single time. To answer your question, "Exactly how can Incarnate switch in easier than Therian? Therian has that neat Volt Absorb, and they have very similar defenses. I fail to see any situation where Incarnate switches in easier than Therian." Thundurus-I with taunt can switch in on Set-up supporters, like S-Rank Chansey, and taunt it, to render it almost useless. Comepletely without S-toss. Other set-up supporters include Most ferrothorns, all skarms, most hippos, Cradily, Klefki, and so on. The way Thundy-I can switch in that Thundy-T can't, is that it can render the other mon useless, while Thundy-t has to hope to kill, but with eviolite chansey, or usage ferro, that won't happen. Volt absorb is a great ability, that can have it's niche, but with Prankster, it can either paralyze, or taunt with eaze, and be able to leave. It also is a terrific lead, due to it either, as I have stated so many fucking times, it can paralyze sweepers or taunt supports. So there's a turn where you don't have rocks, or a mon that you don't have to worry sweepin your team.

Now, I will say, I agree with thundurus-T being A rank, it is a great mon wen paired, and has to barely adapt. Yet You have to think on this. Which one of these two can you easily slap on any team and make it work? I believe that anttya should add an element of that to the Ranks, how easily can it be put on a team. Alright, I practically made my point, I am going to be reserving See below for flying.

Edit: Un-reserving mega aerodactyl
 
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Acast

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Pursuit on Slaking is gimmicky just as you say Pursuit on Staraptor is gimmicky. Neither pokemon runs pursuit. You can apply the same situation to Staraptor.
Pursuit is common. As Anttya has already stated, Slaking forces a lot of switches, so Pursuit is far from just a gimmick.

That being said, I think it's fair to say that we won't be changing each others' minds at this point so I'm thinking we should let the votes do the talking and after some time we can decide where it goes based on that. Sound good Anttyaz or no?

EDIT: Nevermind. I'm happy with C rank
 

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Ok I'm being triple teamed ;_; I give up :pirate::pirate:, I still stand by the fact that Staraptor and Diggersby can wallbreak just as effectively without Truant, though, so I stand by D Rank, but I can settle with C Rank, I Guess


EDIT:

Maybe we should delete these one line replies, kind of spamming the thread kek
 
Slaking is forced to run a Dark move to hit Ghosts that have Levitate whereas Staraptor has the moveset it needs to be OPPP. Besides, any Ghost team with Aegislash will try and switch into it since Aegi is the perfect Slaking counter
As stated in the set I posted, Slaking gets both Night Slash and Earthquake to deal with the likes of Aegislash:

252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 270-318 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Slaking Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield on a critical hit: 282-332 (87 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Of course, if it is running Weakness Policy rather than leftovers, which I know a fair amount now do, I can see your point.

Edit: After taking into account the opinions of the others, I'm willing to settle on B+ to B- Rank for Slaking.
 
Ok I'm being triple teamed ;_; I give up :pirate::pirate:, I still stand by the fact that Staraptor and Diggersby can wallbreak just as effectively without Truant, though, so I stand by D Rank, but I can settle with C Rank, I Guess
lolol we bullies. I'm not taking sides, I'm just putting stuff out there xD And I'm happy with C rank as well
 
Arcanine for B Rank



Firefighter(Arcanine)(M)@Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Wild Charge/Extreme Speed/Crunch
-Wild Charge/Extreme Speed/Crunch

OR you could use this...

Firefighter(Arcanine)(M)@Leftovers
Ablity: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 SpDef
Impish Nature
-Will-O-Wisp
-Morning Sun
-Flare Blitz
-Extreme Speed

Arcanine is a very versatile Pokemon. It can run a physical offensive set, it can run a special offensive set, it can run a defensive set. It can do a lot of things.
However, Arcanine is kind of slow compared to a lot of other attackers, so it can't hit very fast. Each set it can run has a problem that it can't really fix. Arcanine's offensive set gets beaten by a good physically Defensive Pokemon like Gliscor or Slowbro. And its defensive set is completely walled by Heatran and Chandelure and yet again, a good physically defensive Pokemon.
Despite these bad points, Arcanine is still a very good Pokemon and can make it into the middle tier as it's always been in: The UU of Monotype, B Rank.
NOTE: I might be a little biased on Arcanine because it's my favourite Pokemon, but hope this contributes to the community well.
 
Rotom-W for A Rank



Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-Wisp
- Trick

or

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Will-o-Wisp

Explanation: Rotom-W does just as well in OU as it does here. The best thing is that it's immune to Ground moves with Levitate, and that it can wall a good portion of Ground Pokemon by hitting it with a STAB Hydro Pump, or it can burn it with a Will-o-Wisp. Although it lacks reliable Recovery, Rotom-W gets Pain Split instead which is almost as good. Rotom-W also gets Volt Switch meaning that it can almost always gain momentum against Monotypes like Normal and Flying.
Scarfed sets mean that you can get a couple of KOs by spamming Hydro Pump, while having the ability to cripple setup mons like Cosmic Power Clefable.
Non-Choiced sets focus more on bulk while minimizing the amount of HP you have so you'd get more from Pain Split. Bold is chosen for its ability to wall Ground Monotypes extremely well.
 
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Ok Anttyaz I'll do Diggersby (Ground)



Diggersby @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- U-turn


Diggersby @ Life orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Return
- Quick Attack


Diggersby does not see much use on Ground, but it isn't bad. The overwhelming amount of physical attackers on Ground makes it easy to overlook Diggersby, however Diggersby does have one niche in that it has huge power. What does that mean you might ask? IT HITS REALLY HARD. Diggersby can make for an efficient wallbreaker to weaken defensive threats so that Excadrill can have an easier time sweeping. Diggersby an also equip a choice scarf to be a semi efficient late game cleaner and revenge killer. Diggersby (ground) for B Rank
 
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Reserving Sawk (Fighting), Venomoth (Bug/Poison), Garbodor (Poison), Carbink (Rock/Fairy) and Sigilyph (Psychic/Flying)
 
Volbeat for D-rank



Volbeat @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe or 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute
-Baton pass
-Tail Glow/Confuse Ray

The only reason volbeat is ever used is for its ability, prankster. This, with the combination of baton pass, has the possibility of providing deadly support to its teammates. Thunder wave helps to slow down threats that would outspeed and kill all of its teammates, and substitute is very helpful to ensure a successful baton pass. In conjunction with t-wave and confuse ray, passing a sub will often provide enough opportunities for a teammate to set up and sweep everything. On the other hand, tail glow can be used instead of confuse ray to boost the power of scarfed special pokemon tremendously (although the only reason they would be scarved is because they would be expecting a tail glow pass). With the confuse ray set, I have often been able to easily create opportunities for mega pinsir or volcarona to set up behind a sub. However, although volbeat's support capabilities are insane and can often decide the fate of a game, it is held back by its bland typing, terrible stats, four moveslot syndrome, and inability to do anything else. Its typing leaves it susceptible to many of bug's weaknesses, and does nothing to help it defensively (and support should be defensive). Its stats don't really help it to actually survive attacks either; if it can't survive, it can't support, so it relies on substitute + t-wave and possibly confuse ray stall the opponent. (Although the speed does help against sableye and klefki.) While it does get roost, thanks to its four moveslot syndrome, it is unable to run roost and provide the needed support at the same time. Finally, thanks to its stats, it has 0 offensive capability, and centers its play solely on baton passing to a teammate. In some matches where it gets no opportunity to play, this makes it completely dead weight. In addition, there are many times it gets no opportunity, such as if the opponent itself has substitute and setup, or if the opponent has taunt. I wasn't able to decide between C and D rank, but I decided the cons were enough to warrant a D rank.
(Sorry if this is hard to read; I feel kind of sick right now.)


Also, why is spinarak D-rank when it is completely outclassed by ariados? E-rank feels like a better fit.
 
Volbeat for D-rank



Volbeat @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe or 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute
-Baton pass
-Tail Glow/Confuse Ray

The only reason volbeat is ever used is for its ability, prankster. This, with the combination of baton pass, has the possibility of providing deadly support to its teammates. Thunder wave helps to slow down threats that would outspeed and kill all of its teammates, and substitute is very helpful to ensure a successful baton pass. In conjunction with t-wave and confuse ray, passing a sub will often provide enough opportunities for a teammate to set up and sweep everything. On the other hand, tail glow can be used instead of confuse ray to boost the power of scarfed special pokemon tremendously (although the only reason they would be scarved is because they would be expecting a tail glow pass). With the confuse ray set, I have often been able to easily create opportunities for mega pinsir or volcarona to set up behind a sub. However, although volbeat's support capabilities are insane and can often decide the fate of a game, it is held back by its bland typing, terrible stats, four moveslot syndrome, and inability to do anything else. Its typing leaves it susceptible to many of bug's weaknesses, and does nothing to help it defensively (and support should be defensive). Its stats don't really help it to actually survive attacks either; if it can't survive, it can't support, so it relies on substitute + t-wave and possibly confuse ray stall the opponent. (Although the speed does help against sableye and klefki.) While it does get roost, thanks to its four moveslot syndrome, it is unable to run roost and provide the needed support at the same time. Finally, thanks to its stats, it has 0 offensive capability, and centers its play solely on baton passing to a teammate. In some matches where it gets no opportunity to play, this makes it completely dead weight. In addition, there are many times it gets no opportunity, such as if the opponent itself has substitute and setup, or if the opponent has taunt. I wasn't able to decide between C and D rank, but I decided the cons were enough to warrant a D rank.
(Sorry if this is hard to read; I feel kind of sick right now.)


Also, why is spinarak D-rank when it is completely outclassed by ariados? E-rank feels like a better fit.
Seriously don't know, I guess I ran out of random bug Pokemon with Sticky Web :[
 
I think it's C rank since a majority of us agreed on, what do you think? (One last chance to change this decision) I heard that we all accept 20s


Normal is taken, so you'd have to do ground xD

How about 50s?


My final words are that Slaking is marred by some fatal flaws, burn, Giga Impact Trapping, and Truant, but the entire point of Slaking's set that I made was to fodder something like a Smeargle, send it in with a 140 Power STAB Retaliate, and then escape into something that can either A.) Serve as a Cleric. B.) Ditto. Or C.) Lower Stats (I.E. Staraptor). The only reason I have Giga Impact on the set at all is for when Slaking has no other choice, or when the move is convenient, I.E. Against the last Pokemon, Slaking IS the Last Pokemon, ect.

Therefore, after taking in the opinions and points of the other debaters, I am willing to lower my original Goal of A Rank Slaking to:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good but they need support (which may be hard to give) for them to function. These Pokemon are used to check your counters once or twice, meaning that it cannot switch in and out repeatedly (Both Defensive and Offensive). Defensive Pokemon of this rank are Pokemon in this rank can have a positive type match up sometimes, but they may be useless in others. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame.
B- Rank.
 

Croven

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I apologize in advanced, I will be addressing both you and AFD at once, but not going to Quote his post. While it is true that they both have different roles, you still have to compare them, because they are the same mon. You can't have both on the same team, so you try to go for which one is better. I didn't say it was bad because it was choice locked, yet I am trying to say it is limited because of this choice lock. It is true that it does good on volt turn, and that's good, revenge killing is good, but as I said earlier, it can't switch in as easily, to which I will now reply to AFD and you. While Therian does have that good volt absorb, that is it's best bet to switch in, which only does it good against electric teams. While AFD says that it can switch in to electric while not having the 4x weakness to ice, you also have to remember it's defenses. They're the same for both I and T, keep this in mind. 70 in defense, and 80 in special defense. So these are the usage sets for Thundy-T and Mega Manectric, the most common mega on thunder teams (source, the stats)

252 SpA Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 136-162 (45.3 - 54%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO

What Thundy-t's Niche is is the electric immunity, but sometimes, they won't use thunderbolt, sometimes they will use HP ice, which is very common on electric teams. Like, extremely common. Many mons run HP ice every single time. To answer your question, "Exactly how can Incarnate switch in easier than Therian? Therian has that neat Volt Absorb, and they have very similar defenses. I fail to see any situation where Incarnate switches in easier than Therian." Thundurus-I with taunt can switch in on Set-up supporters, like S-Rank Chansey, and taunt it, to render it almost useless. Comepletely without S-toss. Other set-up supporters include Most ferrothorns, all skarms, most hippos, Cradily, Klefki, and so on. The way Thundy-I can switch in that Thundy-T can't, is that it can render the other mon useless, while Thundy-t has to hope to kill, but with eviolite chansey, or usage ferro, that won't happen. Volt absorb is a great ability, that can have it's niche, but with Prankster, it can either paralyze, or taunt with eaze, and be able to leave. It also is a terrific lead, due to it either, as I have stated so many fucking times, it can paralyze sweepers or taunt supports. So there's a turn where you don't have rocks, or a mon that you don't have to worry sweepin your team.

Now, I will say, I agree with thundurus-T being A rank, it is a great mon wen paired, and has to barely adapt. Yet You have to think on this. Which one of these two can you easily slap on any team and make it work? I believe that anttya should add an element of that to the Ranks, how easily can it be put on a team. Alright, I practically made my point, I am going to be reserving Mega Aerodactyl for flying.
Definitely some solid points, can't argue that. What I can argue, however, is the fact that Thundy-T is just as easily placed on a team as Thundy-I. You state that Rkilling and VoltTurning is good, then say 'it can't switch as easy' as your argument to that. Honestly, that is nowhere near an argument against the great support that Therian offers. A powerful VoltTurning core is far more effective than Twave/Taunt support. Yes, this does require another mon to do successfully, but many of those pokes were likely already going to be used on the team anyway, like Raptor and Lando, and even a small VoltTurning core is extremely, extremely effective against nearly every team out there. One more thing: While AFD and I pushed on about how Volt Absorb is Therian's greatest niche, that was very false. I rarely see myself use it; it is mostly there for the mental effect-preventing Tbolt spamming and forcing the opponent to make more plays.

Anyway, I agree that this argument should be finished, so here is my closing statement:

Incarnate and Therian provide different roles while they are the same mon, thus allowing them to be compared. Being equally able to put on a team, the player should decide which he wants more: stallbreaker/utility, Rkiller, special sweeper, or a potential VoltTurning core. Only then can the user decide which to use. It's a bit of a generic argument, but here it is true. You really need to clarify which will provide more based on your team to decide which to use.
 
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