Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

I'm having a hard time calibrating for IV's.

I always get my seconds with a huge differences.

For example I think my first one try was 13 seconds, then 15, then two 17's and two 21's.

I was mashing A like crazy.
My friend said to try it by using windows vista clock and just counting seconds to the continue screen. would that work to get the target time?
 
So I'm going to take that as a yes, only the ones that turn and walk around advance the RNG, such as the NPCs in solaceon town (cowgirls) but, not the buneary as that has a "fixed" movement pattern so it doesn't advance the RNG I believe. Thanks for the help yngstr.
 
Does the amount of Pokemon in your party fluctuate your frames when trying to breed?



Grrr... I cannot seem to lock onto this 600 delay flygon, I'll either be off in delay or be off by one frame when I DO hit it. :(
 
So I'm going to take that as a yes, only the ones that turn and walk around advance the RNG, such as the NPCs in solaceon town (cowgirls) but, not the buneary as that has a "fixed" movement pattern so it doesn't advance the RNG I believe. Thanks for the help yngstr.
Yes, NPC's advance the frame. You're also right about Buneary.


Does the amount of Pokemon in your party fluctuate your frames when trying to breed?



Grrr... I cannot seem to lock onto this 600 delay flygon, I'll either be off in delay or be off by one frame when I DO hit it. :(
The number of pokemon with you shouldn't affect the frame, to my knowledge. About your delay, it seems that cartridges seem to follow a pattern of hitting either odd delays or only even delays (in my personal experience I've never gotten an even delay ever). I don't know how to change that, although I vaguely recall some post in this thread explaining how to.
 
I don't understand the process for finding shiny legendaries. By using method j, under frame, I got 114. Listed above, the frame for the legendary I was trying for was 1. If every time you flip your jornal page it advances by 2, then how many times do you have to advance then rng to find the shiny I wanted?
 
I don't understand the process for finding shiny legendaries. By using method j, under frame, I got 114. Listed above, the frame for the legendary I was trying for was 1. If every time you flip your jornal page it advances by 2, then how many times do you have to advance then rng to find a shiny?
Either find a spread with an odd frame or release one roaming pokémon.
 
Improbable TrainerID/SecretID-combinations

Hi there,

Just found out some things and thought I should share them.

Seedsetting at start of game:

1. Before intro comes up, Seed is set to timedate (x1). This has an offset of zero,
so last byte is year.

2. Then it is set to zero
2.1 At this point, 18 random numbers are created.
2.1 of course, with seed being zero, those are not really random

3. When switching to title screen, it is set to x1, again

4. After pressing "continue", it is seeded with new (current timedate)

---

At the beginning of the game (starting new game),

1. Before intro comes up, Seed is set to timedate (x1)
2. Then zero
3. then to x1, again

4. Before Prof speech comes up, seed is set to current timedate

5. After TV Scene, a new (current) timedate is put into seed
5.1 this has a rather high offset (hat 2838 for Year 2009) as prof speech takes some time.

6. Mersenne Twister is called twice. The second roll gives the Trainer IDs.
(low 16Bit is public ID, high 16 Bit is hidden ID)

7. Three calls to RNG are made afterwards, these seem used to set the pointers

---

The most interesting thing about this is (6). A given seed will always result in the same TrainerID/SecretID-combination.

This throws up a question: Can I hit _every_ number? As this maps 2^32 (seeds) onto 2^32 (possible rolls), two seeds resulting in the same roll would mean that some other number can't be hit - therefore making a specific trainerID/secretID-combination _invalid_.

I know that Mersenne is better RNG than the other one, but is it possible to calculate back from a roll to the seed, given that you know it's the second roll? Is it easily possible?

I answered another question myself: It seems like _every_ seed is possible at the beginning of the game. Given a large delay, you can change the seed as if the game was started in another hour.

Still that means that someone with a TrainerID/SecretID resulting from a Seed xxFFxxxx or even xx00xxxx spent an enormous amount of time listening to the professor at the beginning of the game - thus making these TrainerID/SecretID-combinations rather "unprobable". I waited about 20 minutes just to have the "hour digit" by a single digit. Given that it is 23 =0x17 at max, offsetting it to FF would mean a waittime of 4640 minutes.
I gotta admit, I did this on emulator so timing might be wrong but if offset is "seconds*60", this still means about 18.2 minutes per digit.

So my main question to the math geniuses is: Can I rollback the second Mersenne roll to the original seed? Or do I have to create a map by bruteforce?

Greetings,

TCC
 

mingot

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So my main question to the math geniuses is: Can I rollback the second Mersenne roll to the original seed? Or do I have to create a map by bruteforce?
I don't think you are going to have a whole lot of luck with trying to work Mersenne backwards as you need 624 sequential values to even predict future iterates (you can also likely use them to figure out past, back to seed, too).

Period of 2^19937 − 1 :(

Of course, if the offset is fixed from seed and you have a relatively small pool of candidate seeds to brute force through it might be pretty easy to at lease figure out what the SID is from just a table of ID's. That would be very very useful. Not helpful to exploiting, but useful just the same.
 
I don't think you are going to have a whole lot of luck with trying to work Mersenne backwards as you need 624 sequential values to even predict future iterates (you can also likely use them to figure out past, back to seed, too).
I don't think I need 624 sequential values, if I know I'm on second roll and I know the algorithm behind the initialisation

t[0] = Initial SEED
t[n] = (( upper 2bits of t [n-1] ) xor t [n-1]) * 0x6c078965 + n

where n = 1 - 623

(taken from page 21).

I need to check into Mersenne, again - but if I recall correctly, only two or three of these previous values are taken. With second roll, these should be rather fixed.

Still I'm not sure whether this rollback would be possible - if second mersenne roll is not bijective, then we'd be stuck with anyway.

TCC
 
Is the type of pokemon I might encounter also dependent on my frame?

I've went through this 4 times already and I've gotten 4 Seakings from the Lake of Verity. With a 35% chance encounter rate, the chances of 4 in a row are around 1.5%. Either I'm really unlucky or something else is at play here...

Bump
 
Yes the pokemon is dependent on the frame. That's why there are encounter slots.
Uh oh, looks like I missed something here... encounter slots? I was under the false impression that once I had a spread picked out, as long as I had my frames correct, it would assign those IVs to the next pokemon I encountered, whatever that may be. Now I'm confused...
 
so your saying I'd have to advance it 115 then? Because the rng reporter said 114, and the frame is 1?
I'm not sure what you meaning. But the formula for for how many journal flips you should do is:

((Target frame) - (frame of the legend ) - (number of roamers))/2



So if you release a roaming pokémon the number of journal flips will be (114-1-1)/2 = 56

If you don't wanna release any roamer it's best to find a another IV-spread that has a odd frame.
 
I'm not sure what you meaning. But the formula for for how many journal flips you should do is:

((Target frame) - (frame of the legend ) - (number of roamers))/2



So if you release a roaming pokémon the number of journal flips will be (114-1-1)/2 = 56

If you don't wanna release any roamer it's best to find a another IV-spread that has a odd frame.
thanks, that's what I was asking for. I don't have any pokemon roaming around right now.
 
Uh oh, looks like I missed something here... encounter slots? I was under the false impression that once I had a spread picked out, as long as I had my frames correct, it would assign those IVs to the next pokemon I encountered, whatever that may be. Now I'm confused...
why not just catch a magikarp instead?
 

mingot

free agent
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Uh oh, looks like I missed something here... encounter slots? I was under the false impression that once I had a spread picked out, as long as I had my frames correct, it would assign those IVs to the next pokemon I encountered, whatever that may be. Now I'm confused...
Check the first page, a few posts down. You'll see the post.

What pokemon you encounter is determined by the random number generator.

When you target a specific frame the calls that determine which monster you will catch are fixed, right along with the ivs that are also fixed. So if you hit the same frame with the same same seed you will always get the same monster. Of the same level. Holding the same item.

Different frames, which may have the same ivs may yield a different monster.
 
I don't get it I have done everyting right when i started the game my standard frame was 9, but i haved to have 26. so i have done 8 pageflips to capture/defeated and one extra to a other page so that i would make my frame to 26. The delay that i must hit was 595 and i did so i did everything right but I still don't get the right IV's :S
 
I don't get it I have done everyting right when i started the game my standard frame was 9, but i haved to have 26. so i have done 8 pageflips to capture/defeated and one extra to a other page so that i would make my frame to 26. The delay that i must hit was 595 and i did so i did everything right but I still don't get the right IV's :S
No you didn't do everything right. 9 + 8x2 = 25, not 26. And " one extra to a other page so that i would make my frame to 26" makes no sense.
 

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