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Other Most Improved Pokemon
- Thread starter k13
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Bisharp got the best boost imo, not weak to Fairies, as most Darks are, still resistant to Dark / Ghost unlike most Steels, and now can make MUCH more use of its STAB moves because of Fairies. Might be slight, but I see a rise in usage ahead. Also, now its worst Enemies, Fighting-types, are nerfed!
Most Mega Gengar checks fail miserably if Mega Gengar has a Sub up. Substitute is an amazing move on Mega Gengar because it lets him switch out of the Tyranitar that will be switched into it when it Mega Evolves without having to worry about Pursuit. When you revenge kill something, you can easily find an opportunity to get a Sub up. If you don't have a Sub up...switch and come back to kill something else later.
I will do my take on this and say what in my opinion are the most and least improved pokemon from each tier anyways here I go starting with improved then nerfed
Ou- most improved ou pokemon was gengar obviously as it's secondary stab became significantly more power ful with fairies running around and that shadow ball is no longer resisted by steal and he's out for another generation guarenteed especially considering the fact that he has a mega evolution with both a speed and Spa boost and shadow tag
Now for most needed I'd have to say the title goes to metagross as he was barely hanging on before but now he has two new weaknesses along with being able to be pursuit trapped and i think he will have a nice home in uu to live out the rest of his days happily retired
Uu- after a tough decision I decided to go with crobat as it now has infiltrator to get through subs with moves such as taunt toxic defog haze and his stab combo which is way better then it used to be top it all off with being the bane of sub gengar thanks to its blistering 130 speed and you have a very good anti meta game poke
Most merged I have to say is scraggy as his before impressive stab combo is now resisted by the same type while being quad weak to that type certainly hurts him now I don't think he will drop but I do think his usage will drop significantly
Ru- most improved in my opinion is shockingly clefable as with its new typing magic guard and reliable recovery in wish and soft boiled and a very diverse move pool with moves such as bolt beam hyper voice fairy stab recoil free double edge and many more could make it a bigger staple on teams then mega absol and medicham thanks to its amazing new type and decent defendes and lack of passive damage not to mention not taking up a mega slot
Most nerfed- I have to say is spiritomb as it lost its biggest niche being a spinn locker with no weaknesses
Nu- this is the one I've been waiting to explain its none other then .......................scolopede in my opinion scolopede got the biggest buff in my even bigger then mailed as speed boost plus the attack boost have made in my eyes a potential unrest suspect sick on that Mawile as he moves up all the same tiers maw ole does and potentially more and all this is because in my experience as using him he is un counter able being able to run a multitude of sets such as a offensive and defensive baton passer along with a sweeper or hazard setter not to mention if the ever send in a counter you can just baton pass to a teammate and they can sweep
Most nerfed- metabolism as it has all the problems metagross got while still being worse
Ou- most improved ou pokemon was gengar obviously as it's secondary stab became significantly more power ful with fairies running around and that shadow ball is no longer resisted by steal and he's out for another generation guarenteed especially considering the fact that he has a mega evolution with both a speed and Spa boost and shadow tag
Now for most needed I'd have to say the title goes to metagross as he was barely hanging on before but now he has two new weaknesses along with being able to be pursuit trapped and i think he will have a nice home in uu to live out the rest of his days happily retired
Uu- after a tough decision I decided to go with crobat as it now has infiltrator to get through subs with moves such as taunt toxic defog haze and his stab combo which is way better then it used to be top it all off with being the bane of sub gengar thanks to its blistering 130 speed and you have a very good anti meta game poke
Most merged I have to say is scraggy as his before impressive stab combo is now resisted by the same type while being quad weak to that type certainly hurts him now I don't think he will drop but I do think his usage will drop significantly
Ru- most improved in my opinion is shockingly clefable as with its new typing magic guard and reliable recovery in wish and soft boiled and a very diverse move pool with moves such as bolt beam hyper voice fairy stab recoil free double edge and many more could make it a bigger staple on teams then mega absol and medicham thanks to its amazing new type and decent defendes and lack of passive damage not to mention not taking up a mega slot
Most nerfed- I have to say is spiritomb as it lost its biggest niche being a spinn locker with no weaknesses
Nu- this is the one I've been waiting to explain its none other then .......................scolopede in my opinion scolopede got the biggest buff in my even bigger then mailed as speed boost plus the attack boost have made in my eyes a potential unrest suspect sick on that Mawile as he moves up all the same tiers maw ole does and potentially more and all this is because in my experience as using him he is un counter able being able to run a multitude of sets such as a offensive and defensive baton passer along with a sweeper or hazard setter not to mention if the ever send in a counter you can just baton pass to a teammate and they can sweep
Most nerfed- metabolism as it has all the problems metagross got while still being worse
Buffs:
Gengar- Potential Uber its so Metagame defining
Blaziken- Same as Gengar
Mawhile- Could be the biggest jump going from NU to potentially OU
Scolipede- Speed boost +baton pass (also learns SD)
Azumarill- My personal favorite, loves the fairy type
Galvantula- Sticky Web
Heatran- Even better anti-poke with new x4 fairy resist AND assault vest
Togekiss- Another poke blessed with the rare and awesome fairy type. Went from being neutral to fighting and now he x4 resists it. Loves the bulky aspect of this gen.
Crobat- Will be awesome this Gen with fairy resist + defog, very lickly OU
Volcarona- Stealth Rock nerf + resistence to fairy + good counter to Aegislash
Landorus -T- Will be used more thanks to its complete walling of Aegislash
Clefable- Solely a fairy with medic guard and cosmic power, could be very scary in UU
Rotom-W- Always been a top tier pokemon, will only see an increase with Talonflame running around everywhere
Of course theres the other Mega pokemon such as khanga, blastoise etc. who all have new niches, but gengar and blaziken take the cake. No pokemon with a mega was nerved (even you mega garchomp) as these forms bring them an unpredictable factor when battling against them.
Gengar- Potential Uber its so Metagame defining
Blaziken- Same as Gengar
Mawhile- Could be the biggest jump going from NU to potentially OU
Scolipede- Speed boost +baton pass (also learns SD)
Azumarill- My personal favorite, loves the fairy type
Galvantula- Sticky Web
Heatran- Even better anti-poke with new x4 fairy resist AND assault vest
Togekiss- Another poke blessed with the rare and awesome fairy type. Went from being neutral to fighting and now he x4 resists it. Loves the bulky aspect of this gen.
Crobat- Will be awesome this Gen with fairy resist + defog, very lickly OU
Volcarona- Stealth Rock nerf + resistence to fairy + good counter to Aegislash
Landorus -T- Will be used more thanks to its complete walling of Aegislash
Clefable- Solely a fairy with medic guard and cosmic power, could be very scary in UU
Rotom-W- Always been a top tier pokemon, will only see an increase with Talonflame running around everywhere
Of course theres the other Mega pokemon such as khanga, blastoise etc. who all have new niches, but gengar and blaziken take the cake. No pokemon with a mega was nerved (even you mega garchomp) as these forms bring them an unpredictable factor when battling against them.
Venusaur sure was. The Mega was an improvement, however small, but losing permanent Drought wasn't.
Agreed he didn't exactly come out winning, but will still probably be OU thanks to being an awesome tank on bulky offense, and countering Azumarill perfectly
The main problem with comparing Ghost with Dragon is the lack of heavy-hitting Ghost-type attacks. There's no Outrage or Draco Meteor equivalent, and instead you have to rely on 80 BP Shadow Ball, 70 BP Shadow Claw, and 60 BP Shadow Punch. The only advantage is priority in the form of Shadow Sneak.
Also most dragons (Haxorous, Garchomp, Lati@s, etc...) get the strong stats necessary to abuse their STABs, while most ghosts have decent stats, but die to a Sucker Punch/Pursuit.
Oh I'll make a list as well!
Most improved:
>mega
>speed boost
>baton pass
>banned from ubers (wait what)
>fairies
>been on /vp/ for too long
Most improved:
- Gengar
- Bisharp
- Togekiss
- Azumarill
- Mawile
- Blaziken
>mega
>speed boost
>baton pass
>banned from ubers (wait what)
- Scolipede
- Arceus-Dark
- Giratina
Jigglypuff
- Sableye / Spiritomb
>fairies
- Hydreigon
- Politoed / Ninetales
- Infernape
- Bronzong
- Metagross
- Jirachi
- Heracross
>been on /vp/ for too long
Not necessarily. Pin Missile (buffed to 25 BP and 95 accuracy) + Skill Link > Megahorn.
Additional coverage in Rock Blast helps with Fire and Flying types, and there's Bullet Seed too. That, and Fairies generally have poor Defense.
He does get less speed, but you can switch in, kill for a Moxie boost, Mega-Evolve (and retain his higher speed stat for the turn), and go to town.
Wait it gets Bullet Seed. And Pin Missile got buffed? Still, I feel it is outclassed by Cloyster. Could someone explain how it isn't?
Apparently so, according to Serebii and a few other places.
Oh, I never said it wasn't outclassed by Cloyster. Cloyster can easily switch in on a resisted physical move and Shell Smash for the sweep.
Different type coverage, I guess?
Azumarill will be just as/more successful using a CB set, which can fit into many more teams and doesn't require as much team support as the Belly drum. Also, if you're gonna throw Bisharp in there, you have to put in Galvantula as well which has definitely seen a bigger increase. Mega Heracross is far from useless, destroying substitute users and having awesome bulk. Whille it may have gained a weakness to fairies, it can now destroy Azumarill with bullet seed. It couldn't do much to Togekiss with or without the addition of the fairy type.
Megacross has access to Rock Blast, which is more than enough to take care of Togekiss.
Because Togekiss is totally not faster and this does not happen:
252+ Atk Skill Link Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 310-370 (83.1 - 99.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Togekiss can also run more physically defensive sets, which take even less.
It's not enough to reliably kill every Togekiss you encounter, that's for sure. Also, Heracross has so many moves to use in Mega form, like Swords Dance (bulky SD is just about the only thing that normal Hera doesn't do better), Pin Missile, Close Combat/Arm Thrust (really? Arm Thrust?), and a coverage move. If you want to use Rock Blast as your coverage move you miss out on important KOs on certain Fairies, such as:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 216-255 (67.92 - 80.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 151-178 (49.67 - 58.55%) -- 67.97% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Skill Link Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (60.91 - 72.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not to mention the fact that Close Combat takes away your bulk, so these Fairies have a greater chance to kill you. That said, some will go for Arm Thrust just for this reason.
If you go for Arm Thrust instead, you have:
252+ Atk Skill Link Mega Heracross Arm Thrust vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 135-160 (42.45 - 50.31%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Skill Link Mega Heracross Arm Thrust vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 94-112 (30.92 - 36.84%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Skill Link Mega Heracross Arm Thrust vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 211-249 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Is it usable over its normal form? Definitely. Is the "improvement" enough to justify using it over another Mega like Lucario? If your team REALLY needs it. Then again, Mega Scizor does bulky SD sets too, and is bulkier and has a better defensive typing, so you might as well use that...
Now if it's allowed in tiers below stuff like Scizor and Lucario...then it's usable.
Megacross has 75 speed and Togekiss has 80. Air slash is 4x SE against heracross. Yes togekiss usually doesn't run timid full speed, but why even take the chance and not just switch out to an appropriate counter
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...wait what? How? Infernape still has niches that Greninja can't fit into; Ape gets Stealth Rock where Greninja only gets Spikes (EDIT: and TSpikes admittedly, but is probably too fragile to set up both), and Infernape can boost with Nasty Plot. Where's Greninja on that?
Eh.... I don't think 'different' = 'less good'. Megacross is good in different WAYS than normal Heracross... just... ...we're still trying to identify them.
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Salamence...is the worst improved. It doesn't have Outrage currently, is piss poor weak without a Moxie or Dragon Dance, and received nothing but nerfs. :( He was a good mon though.
Unless Arm Thrust got buffed this generation, it's just about equal to Brick Break with all 5 hits, only without getting rid of screens. I guess it's better at slapping Substitutes around, but it'll still likely take 2 or 3 hits to get through. (Well, more likely 2 with Megacross's crazy-high Attack, but still.)
Leavanny knows sticky web, Im sure that will boost it up right?
Definitely, might even be prefered to Galvantula for a few reasons.
1. It has Overcoat, so its sash can't be broken by hazards, also protection from powder and stuff is always nice
2. Baton pass and access to Sword Dance and Agility, so after it has done its job it's not dead weight.
Banette deserves a mention
Actually Hydreigon benefits from the new enviroment more than every OU Dragon, bar Dragonite. Fairies aren't that big deal, Hydreigon can just U-Turn out. Most of the new powerhouses are slow, so that trollish 98 speed is no longer bad as it used to be, resists Dark and Ghost, has no longer to rely of Focus Miss for damaging the steels, most Fighting types will probably see less usage because of various nerfs and forms a nice offensive core with Aegislash. And if Sticky Web ends up being a big deal Hydreigon is immune to it.
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