Well imo, Mandibuzz already had most of that Gen5. The overcoat/defog buff is nice tho, and the her high defences makes her REALLY good in this attack heavy, hyper offense metagame.
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Other Most Improved Pokemon
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who outclasses keldeo? One of the highest special attackers in OU last gen with 108 speed is scary. Not to mention the best special attacking fighting type. I think the reason he's seen less is because of the increase of rotom-w who walls keldeo outside of secret sword. The problem is that secret sword does physical damage and almost all rotom-w are physically defensive. Talonflame destroys keldeo also with much higher speed (and priority) flying moves. Greninja is "new and shiny" so people have been using him as their special water. I wouldn't say it outclasses keldeo, its just new. Keldeo will see a rise in usage come the following months i believe. These are just some examples i thought of off the top of my head as to why you might not have seen so many.
Azumarill also walls Keldeo to hell and back, and Gourgeist [and Trevenant too, I guess] do a nice job with that as well. In addition, fighting got a nerf, its Hydro Pump and Surf both got nerfs, as well as its Hidden Power and Substitute. Let's not forget its precious rain, either, which was a huge reason as to why its water attacks were so scary.
Keldeo'll prolly see a rise in usage once the novelty of the new guys wears off, sure, but Keldeo has definitely fallen from grace; that's hard to deny. It's very unlikely to be as ubiquitous or powerful as it was before, in gen five.
all great examples thank you for adding on to my lazy half-assed comment. Body line, Keldeo got some nerfs and some new counters, but it will find its place in the metagame in a few months when everything is settled down. I mean a special attacker that can counter blissey and chansey with secret sword will always have a nice place in our metagame.
Mandibuzz went from a mediocre pokemon to a great one in my opinion. Its niche has always been that of a bulky stallbreaker, but it wasn't quite bulky enough to keep up with the huge power creep that existed in gen 5. However, without Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps being thrown around everywhere as well as pokes like CB Terrakion dropping in usage, I think it can definitely pull its weight on an OU team now. Main reasons being the buff to Knock Off, giving Mandibuzz another great STAB move to work with, the Overcoat buff, turning Mandibuzz in OU's best Breloom counter, and ofcourse the Defog buff, which removes all entry hazards on the field. Depending on your needs you can go specially defensive or physically defensive. It's a great support mon on Volt-Turn teams that despise SR and Spikes as well as Sticky Web, and its worth its weight in gold against Stall teams. You can have Wish support to get HP back, Heal Bell to restore your status, but there's nothing you can do to get your item back from Knock Off. It's an amazing move against Stall and Offense teams alike. The only problem is ofcourse the weakness to Fairy-types, but this can be helped with proper teammates.
You obviously never played a NU game, as Kangaskhan and Charizard are two of the top 5 pokemon in NU.
While I don't think he's the most improved, I think Kecleon got a buff that no one is really looking at. The fact that he can have protean now, and isn't stuck with color change allows him to be far more useful, especially with his base 120 Sp. Def and his decent move pool. I doubt it will bump him out of NU though, since people just don't like Kecleon. I really think he has potential though.
EDIT: Was still making it through the thread, saw Mactwok's usage of him and explanation and I completely agree.
EDIT: Was still making it through the thread, saw Mactwok's usage of him and explanation and I completely agree.
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I have been using Roserade a lot... It does not seem to be gaining much usage but I don't think the buffs it received this gen will warrant it staying in UU either. Poison typing is a blessing this gen and Roserade being one of the few very viable offensive poison types becomes a great counter against Fairy types, and sponging their attacks. Gaining Sleep powder + Leaf Storm + Spikes in addition to the immunity to spore based status allows it to regain momentum for the team after it sponges a special attack and can begin to either spike stack or put the switch in to sleep (without fear of being put to sleep yourself via magic bouncers) and make short work of any water types. The additional +10 def has helped it in also being able to tank some hits that it is capable of resisting. It is not in the same level of improvement of necessarily jumping up several tiers but it has improved enough to a degree that I think it will be suspect at UU.
How would you play him?
I can think of:
Sucker Punch/Knock Off; Shadow Sneak, Ice Punch/Recover; Disable + Leftovers /Life Orb
Or Sucker Punch/Knock Off; Shadow Sneak; Drain Punch ; Ice Punch + Assault Vest
Like: 1 or 2 priority moves to use his newly won Protean - and either AV + Drain Punch to make more of his bulk, or Disable combined with Proteon for dodging very effective attacks all together.
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If you guys are going to post in this thread, please at least back up the Pokemon you're bringing up with reasoning. Remember that this is a thread—not a poll. Just saying "Mawile" isn't contributing to conversation. The goal of this thread is to discuss the various buffs that certain Pokemon got and how that affects their viability in OU, so let's please do that! Otherwise, I'll just lock this thread, especially considering what Aldaron said is really, really true lol.
I have to agree with the guys mentioning Mandibuzz, this thing has become a lot better with seemingly minor changes:. Defog and Overcoat buff seem minor things but they aren't, having a safe switch in to prominent Spore/Sleep Power abusers (Breloom, Venusaur, Amoonguss, Roserade,...) is a lot better than it sounds, on top of that most sleep inducers cant do anything else to Mandibuzz making it a great switch-in. Other minor Mandibuzz buffs are the fact that Steel does not resist Dark anymore and the Knock Off buff. The downside is it's weakness to fairy (did Dark really need that Weakness Game Freak?).
I always found Mandibuzz to be a bit underrated; sure it wasn't OU material in Gen V but NU???? It has great defenses capable of walling both sides of the spectrum and has a great movepool to compensate for it's lacking offenses: Roost, Defog, Taunt, U-Turn, Knock Off, Foul Play, Whirlwind and Torment.
I'm not sure how popular weather inducers will be once the metas establish themselves now that auto-weather got nerfed but Mandibuzz is a good candidate, having Roost to compensate the lack of Leftovers (assuming you use a damp/heat rock) and U-Turn to take proper advantage of your weather.
I always found Mandibuzz to be a bit underrated; sure it wasn't OU material in Gen V but NU???? It has great defenses capable of walling both sides of the spectrum and has a great movepool to compensate for it's lacking offenses: Roost, Defog, Taunt, U-Turn, Knock Off, Foul Play, Whirlwind and Torment.
I'm not sure how popular weather inducers will be once the metas establish themselves now that auto-weather got nerfed but Mandibuzz is a good candidate, having Roost to compensate the lack of Leftovers (assuming you use a damp/heat rock) and U-Turn to take proper advantage of your weather.
Bisharp
All you guys need to get is that thing is a strong threat now. Dark / Steel has awesome coverage, and it murders things with that newly buffed Knock Off (which still gets rid of the item of whatever switches in)
It'll probably end up being on of the stronger X&Y mons that goes unnoticed until everyone starts to catch on.
All you guys need to get is that thing is a strong threat now. Dark / Steel has awesome coverage, and it murders things with that newly buffed Knock Off (which still gets rid of the item of whatever switches in)
It'll probably end up being on of the stronger X&Y mons that goes unnoticed until everyone starts to catch on.
Everyone is thinking about one Scrappy Pokemon that got Boomburst, but what about the other one:
Swellow may have a shitty base Special Attack stat of 50, but with Choice Specs and only two types resisting it, it can wreck. Here are some calculations:
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 199-235 (75.9 - 89.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 208-246 (76.4 - 90.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 258-304 (86.8 - 102.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 165-194 (50.9 - 59.8%)
It's strong, these are only a few calcs. Choice Specs Swellow works, with Boomburst / U-Turn / Hidden Power [Fire] or Hidden Power [Fighting] / Brave Bird or Defog, it hits hard! U-Turn keeping up momentum and Defog aiding its team, it's good! It has bad bulk yes, but it also has a blazing fast 125 Speed, that Exploud can only dream of!
Swellow may have a shitty base Special Attack stat of 50, but with Choice Specs and only two types resisting it, it can wreck. Here are some calculations:
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 199-235 (75.9 - 89.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 208-246 (76.4 - 90.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 258-304 (86.8 - 102.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 165-194 (50.9 - 59.8%)
It's strong, these are only a few calcs. Choice Specs Swellow works, with Boomburst / U-Turn / Hidden Power [Fire] or Hidden Power [Fighting] / Brave Bird or Defog, it hits hard! U-Turn keeping up momentum and Defog aiding its team, it's good! It has bad bulk yes, but it also has a blazing fast 125 Speed, that Exploud can only dream of!
Totally agreeing with the effectiveness of Bisharp right now, it got quite a few interesting buffs this generation, either direct or indirect that make it much stronger and much more of a legitimate threat than it was in Black and White. The most significant of which imo is the fact that Steel-types (bar Lucario, Klefki, Mawile, and ironically Bisharp itself) no longer resist Dark-type moves, which makes Bisharp's powerful Sucker Punch that much more potent (it can pick off things it wouldn't be able to before such as weakened genesect for example) and makes it a bit harder to wall/switch in on. Something else that makes Bisharp more annoying to switch in on is as PKgaming mentioned, Knock Off, not just does Knock Off mean that anything switching into Bisharp needs to risk losing its item, but Knock Off got a buff that makes it more than usable outside of this, getting a power boost to almost 100 BP when the opponent has an item and still having only 5 less BP than Night Slash after the first hit. This makes Knock Off quite a potent move on Bisharp, and should be used on pretty much any set imo.
Something extra that PKGaming didn't mention however, is Defiant. Defiant isn't an incredible ability, but it sure comes in handy sometimes imo. It means Bisharp actually gets a benefit from Intimidate, getting +1 instead of -1 when something like Landorus-T or Gyarados switches in, and means Defog actually gives Bisharp a +2 Attack boost if it switches in on it, which depending on the Pokemon or team using Defog can mean death if the opponent uses the move at the wrong time. Lastly, this currently doesn't work on PS, but it's confirmed that Sticky Web activates defiant ingame as well, giving the user a +2 boost whenever it switches into the hazard, although the Speed drop still takes effect. The Speed drop is of course still a little annoying because of the prediction factor, but Bisharp's Sucker Punch lets it bypass the negative effects of Sticky Web a bit, using +2 80 BP priority to strike potential sticky web abusers before they can KO Bisharp unless they have priority of their own, which is of course really really great and gives any team with Bisharp a great defense against the hazard.
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Swellow is way better off with Facade and Guts, considering Facade is also 140 power and uses Guts-boosted base 85 attack instead of unboosted base 50. Also, all of the calcs you posted are against very frail Pokemon. Specs Swellow isn't exactly breaking through Blissey or anything anytime soon. Either way, neither Swellow nor Exploud are really OU viable. Heck, Exploud is completely outclassed by Porygon-Z, which is barely OU viable itself.Everyone is thinking about one Scrappy Pokemon that got Boomburst, but what about the other one:
Swellow may have a shitty base Special Attack stat of 50, but with Choice Specs and only two types resisting it, it can wreck. Here are some calculations:
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 190-225 (53.9 - 63.9%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 199-235 (75.9 - 89.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 208-246 (76.4 - 90.4%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 258-304 (86.8 - 102.3%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 165-194 (50.9 - 59.8%)
It's strong, these are only a few calcs. Choice Specs Swellow works, with Boomburst / U-Turn / Hidden Power [Fire] or Hidden Power [Fighting] / Brave Bird or Defog, it hits hard! U-Turn keeping up momentum and Defog aiding its team, it's good! It has bad bulk yes, but it also has a blazing fast 125 Speed, that Exploud can only dream of!
Anyway, I find it a bit strange how so many of the top NU Pokemon specifically got boosted. All of Kangaskhan, Charizard, and Scolipede were top NU Pokemon. While this is purely conincidental, it's still very intriguing. As for the most improved Pokemon, I would have to say Mawile over Kangaskhan, simply because Kanga was already a top NU threat, while Mawile was one of the worst Steel-types in the game with its stunningly high 380 BST. Seriously, Mawile is a worse Steel-type than Bronzor. That's kind of pathetic. While Mega Mawile isn't as good as Mega Kangaskhan, normal Mawile was so bad that it's really hard to say it isn't the most improved Pokemon.
Mawile is now legitimate in ubers, whereas since its inception it was something you didn't use in NU. And really in Ubers there's only about 10 things it can't OHKO, most of those which can be OHKOed after SR damage, aegilash and groudon really being the only thing it can't beat when it has the speed advantage (from trick room or foe's paralysis). And it's not so poor in bulk (especially with 252HP) that it can't take a hit or two in worst-case scenarios.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Mandibuzz has been substantially improved by the Defog, Knock Off and Overcoat buff. Plus, it has an unique defensive typing, although I can't thnink of anything in OU it's particularly good against. Still, it probably won't stay in NU for long.
I'm not sure how it can be argued that the most-improved Pokemon is Kangaskhan, which went from a moderate physical threat in NU to one of the premier threats in OU thanks to gaining a Mega Evolution.
Oh, we're going to discount Mega Evolutions, then? Okay. I got one for you.
Chatot, which went from garbage to usable thanks to being the single most powerful user of one of the best Special attacks in the game thanks to Boomburst.
Oh, we're going to discount Mega Evolutions, then? Okay. I got one for you.
Chatot, which went from garbage to usable thanks to being the single most powerful user of one of the best Special attacks in the game thanks to Boomburst.
Well
The one that made the biggest tier leap is Mawile (my baby, and I use it in ubers)
Kangaskhan and Charizard have become usable (in kanga's place maybe even broken) in OU whence they were the top threats of NU.
Mandibuzz has gotten its fair share of buffs and having the metagame and moves/abilities changing going all its way
Rotom-W enjoys checking a ton of the new and most powerful threats, so I think it deserves a mention.
Chatot and Exploud are now usable, albeit will be lower tier pokemon. Same sorta goes for kecleon.
Leavanny, Ariados, Galvantula all have some weird niches as sticky web users, galvy probably being the favourite atm.
Oh, and shuckle is suddenly totally legit (sticky web and infestation giving you 2 new reasons to use it)
I think these are most of what's been mentioned on the improved side, and I agree with all that I said right here. I cbf to work out a sensible list of most of the most nerfed pokemon, but nothing is instantly obvious.. I guess the considerations are moves that are becoming nerfed, the weather nerf, steel's loss of 2 resistances, and the addition of fairies, and also how they impact how people play certain pokemon.
The one that made the biggest tier leap is Mawile (my baby, and I use it in ubers)
Kangaskhan and Charizard have become usable (in kanga's place maybe even broken) in OU whence they were the top threats of NU.
Mandibuzz has gotten its fair share of buffs and having the metagame and moves/abilities changing going all its way
Rotom-W enjoys checking a ton of the new and most powerful threats, so I think it deserves a mention.
Chatot and Exploud are now usable, albeit will be lower tier pokemon. Same sorta goes for kecleon.
Leavanny, Ariados, Galvantula all have some weird niches as sticky web users, galvy probably being the favourite atm.
Oh, and shuckle is suddenly totally legit (sticky web and infestation giving you 2 new reasons to use it)
I think these are most of what's been mentioned on the improved side, and I agree with all that I said right here. I cbf to work out a sensible list of most of the most nerfed pokemon, but nothing is instantly obvious.. I guess the considerations are moves that are becoming nerfed, the weather nerf, steel's loss of 2 resistances, and the addition of fairies, and also how they impact how people play certain pokemon.
Mawile..From PU material to a decent threat in UU/OU.. Great bulk that consists of 50/125/95 and an Attack stat of 105 (210 because of Huge Power), becoming a par Fairy which comes with some great immunities (Dragon and Poison which now is going to be more used because of Fairies being vulnerable to Poison type moves) and resists 9 types and only weak to Ground and Fire, having access to a decent variety of moves (Iron Head,Sucker Punch,Play Rough,Swords Dance and the Elemental Fangs) and to top it all of it has a base speed of 55 so you can use Mawile/Mega Mawile really effectively in Trick Room!
Lucario, imho, has improved greatly via mega evolution.
He was an BW OU that didn't stand out and would've been a low-tier OU at most this generation if not for the mega form.
With the mega form, he got the speed boost to be at 112, a tremendously trollish and amazing speed tier.
Additionally, with adaptability, his CC, bullet punch are amazing stabs.
Even without LO, due to the atk/spA boosts, his moves that aren't stab do comparable damage to the regular form+LO.
Fuck megas.
He was an BW OU that didn't stand out and would've been a low-tier OU at most this generation if not for the mega form.
With the mega form, he got the speed boost to be at 112, a tremendously trollish and amazing speed tier.
Additionally, with adaptability, his CC, bullet punch are amazing stabs.
Even without LO, due to the atk/spA boosts, his moves that aren't stab do comparable damage to the regular form+LO.
Fuck megas.
There are some gimmicky mon that I have tried to SOME success
1. Braviary - With the proper investment, this thing is surprisingly bulky. Its a good choice for Defoger for a team that want more offensive pressure(Note: To be fair, you can use Gliscor in Pokebank, and Mandibuzz is not that bad offensively thanks to Knock Off Buff and Foul Play). Defiant as an ability is pretty nice for dealing with intimidate or Aegislash with proper set. Still, its VERY situational, and I don't see it being OU anytime soon.
2. Pinsir - Mega Evo. Nuff said. Aeralate STABs is scary as ****.
3. Macnetric - Found a nice utility in Volt Turn -> Intimidate shenanigans, and having Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast? is really nice on an Electric type
1. Braviary - With the proper investment, this thing is surprisingly bulky. Its a good choice for Defoger for a team that want more offensive pressure(Note: To be fair, you can use Gliscor in Pokebank, and Mandibuzz is not that bad offensively thanks to Knock Off Buff and Foul Play). Defiant as an ability is pretty nice for dealing with intimidate or Aegislash with proper set. Still, its VERY situational, and I don't see it being OU anytime soon.
2. Pinsir - Mega Evo. Nuff said. Aeralate STABs is scary as ****.
3. Macnetric - Found a nice utility in Volt Turn -> Intimidate shenanigans, and having Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast? is really nice on an Electric type
Huge Power boosts the stat, not the base stat. Adamant Mawile's Attack goes from 339 to 678, which is equivalent to base 259. That's the highest Attack stat in the game, and makes unboosted Mawile stronger than Choice Band Azumarill.
I'm not sure if it was buffed in any way, but Slowbro has definitely become more useful. There are so many Pokemon that it just flat out stops dead, and it's high OU, IMO.
I had used Slowbro in lower tiers before, so I know all too well just how good it can be, but in OU I've always been a Gliscor fanboy. I decided to try Slowbro a week or two ago, and I haven't looked back since.
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