ORAS OU My first competitive team!

[Ryfi110]

As harsh as it sounds, I have to echo this.



These are my suggested changes.

Mega-Blastoise -> Starmie
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Gengar -> Raikou
Raikou @ Assault vest
Ability: pressure
Evs: 252 Spe / 42 SpD / 214 SpA
Timid Nature
- volt switch
- thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power ice

Gallade -> Mega Metagross
Metagross @ Metagrossite
ability: tough claws
EVs: 252 atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Grass Knot
- Ice punch/EQ/hammer arm (depending on coverage you think is most important)


Keep Scyther if you want and slap a scarf on Hydreigon instead of Specs. I know you want to use your favourites so I'd keep Steelix as well.

EDIT: @ the above poster - Lucario is bad. It just doesn't possess the combination of speed and power it needs.

First, saying this guy has no talent will not help him. The goal is to provide changes to his team so that it is still recognizable as his. Besides, in Wifi, he doesnt have Raikou or he would have been using it. In addition, you changed 1/2 his team, mostly to things that play entirely different roles. If you wish to do this, post your own RMT, because after these changes it isnt his. In the changes I made, Lucario plays a very similar role to Gallade but also has Extremespeed, making it more viable. The other also plays a similar function, but severely outclasses steelix.

Lucario is not bad. It functions well as a late game cleaner, once bulky psychic types are gone, as well as the Clefables or Sylveons. Of course, it will still lose the the mega fairies, with the exception of Diancie if you run BP.

 

[Jimmy L]

It loses to most things. It just isn't strong enough.

And I didn't change things to perform different roles.

Starmie - spinner that can pack a punch
Mega-metagross - physical attacker/sweeper
And his original team has Raichu and my replacement for gengar was based on that.

Finally, I didn't say he didn't have talent. I echoed the thoughts of the OP that he should seek tutoring because it'll help.

 

[Ryfi110]

It loses to most things. It just isn't strong enough.

And I didn't change things to perform different roles.

Starmie - spinner that can pack a punch
Mega-metagross - physical attacker/sweeper
And his original team has Raichu and my replacement for gengar was based on that.

Finally, I didn't say he didn't have talent. I echoed the thoughts of the OP that he should seek tutoring because it'll help.

Starmie does not equal mega 'toise. Blastoise is a bulky spinner who can live a hit or two, and can also return fire with a massive, boosted Water Pulse, who also gets access to Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, etc.
Mega Metagross is a physical cleaner, not a sweeper. You could make the case that Agility gross is a sweeper, but Metagross' viability comes from the ability to do big damage without boosting its damage. Lucario/Gallade is a setup sweeper, who are able to do big damage without costing a mega evolution.

I agreed with the Raikou > Gengar thing, but I had said he didnt have one of those in stock.

Saying the guy needs tutoring is saying he is pretty bad.
If your teacher tells you to get a tutor, you are likely ignorant on the subject.

#StopTheFlameWar

 

[Jimmy L]

^ Metagross fills a bigger role as he already has a set up sweeper in Scyther.

If you're going to act precious and say 'tutoring might help you' = 'you're bad' then that's your perogative.

it doesn't though.

 

[Ryfi110]

I agree with that, but you proceeded to change three members. I agree the changes you made bettered the team. That is only half of the goal here. We want to make sure everyone still ends with a team they can call their own. Not one in which they basically got entirely from you.

Thank you for contributing though, it does give the author an idea of a more standard, effective team.

Can we at least agree that needing tutoring help means you need a good deal of improvement?

 

[The J0ker]

I would like to first state my appreciation towards teams like this. Even if it is not making it to #1 on the ladder, it is effective, and its composed of mostly underrated threats. After the changes you made, I have a few more changes to make, but most are just changing a move or two around.

Thanks. I built my squad around mons I love, and I made them work together. Sure, it's not the one millionth Talonflame/Ferrothorn/Garchomp squad, but as you say, it's mine.

Gengar- Wise-Glasses is pretty horrible. A 10% boost is nice and all, but the power is kind of depressing compared to Life Orb's 30%. I know you cannot have multiple of the same items on Wifi, so you can either remove Gallade's Life Orb, or give Gengar a set of specs, or a scarf, depending on which you give to Hydregion.

Hmm. Good idea. To be honest, it was just filler until I came with a better idea. Gengar is already rather speedy though... perhaps I should toy with giving Gengar the attack boost, and Hydreigon the speed boost? But I really don't want to have two mons that are both locked into only using one move at a time, especially with Gengar's moveset...

Gallade- Since Gengar should hold the orb, Gallade may appreciate a Fist Plate. Since it will die fairly quickly because its frail, its job should go out and spam +2 Close Combats. The defensive debuffs dont matter. In this way, you now have a 20% boosted Close Combat, which would vaporize anything not heavily resistant to it. As another option, keep the orb on Gallade, and give gengar a pair of specs or a stylish scarf.

Hmm. Any other ideas you've got? I'd prefer to keep only one choice item on my squad, but I do need to switch Gengar's item out...

I am going to suggest something entirely optional, but I feel it really updates your team to higher levels.

Change Steelix entirely to Tyranitar. Pursuit trapping is always fun, because switching in on Latios is hard to ask of Blastoise. This would allow you to get rid of something you have no real counter to, especially if it carries surf/tbolt. (though a tbolt variant loses to Steelix I think) whereas a surf variant will destroy Steelix. Yes, Blastoise can check, but that is not too stable, especially since it can be forced to spin allowing a free switch, or take an attack while spinning

You were right about one thing: Steelix's steel typing can be nice. Steel + Dragon can be a nice combination, giving you a resistance for most attacks. While this next idea is not as bulky as your former steel type, but you can swap Gallade with a more viable Lucario. This allows you to gain an Extremespeed user, one that can be paired with swords dance. It can also spam Close Combats, and generally has a similar role, but can also take out weakened pokemon.

The reason for your aversion towards these changes is certainly because gathering these pokemon on ORAS is difficult. I agree. I can provide you with much of what you would need, I have most OU viable pokemon, all shiny with 5/6 IVs. Most EV trained. They are clones, but they function as legit, as there is no difference aside from an emotional aspect. I do not know how important that is to you.

Not gonna lie, this is the main reason I don't feel like switching out my mons if I don't absolutely have to (as with Raichu). I'd prefer to make my team work as is, since I spent a whole bunch of time breeding them all from scratch.

Anyways, I think your fear of Latias (don't see much of Latios) is a bit exaggerated. Blastoise, Hydreigon, Scyther and Gengar all have super effectives moves to deal with it. Worst case scenario is I lose Hydreigon or possibly Gengar and switch out to one of my other mons. I haven't had much problems with the eon duo, no more so than any other sweeper.

Just a note: If you have already bonded with this team to the point of 'mon changes being unthinkable, then consider giving Hydregion a scarf.

Indeed I have.

This allows it to outspeed and OHKO Latios/Latias without breaking a sweat, giving you a second, secure check to Lati@s.

This is actually a pretty good idea, and allows it to outspeed a lot of things it just quite couldn't before. Probably better than a boost to its already insane special attack. However, with a choice item on Hydreigon and a Life Orb on Gallade, and my aversion to multiple choice items, this still leaves a hole in Gengar's item slot...

Anyways, my team's functioning pretty damn well on Showdown right now (winning 60-65% of my battles right now), so it's just clean up time now.

 

[Jimmy L]

Specs Hydreigon loses to Lati
Gengar has a speed tie
scyther loses
Blastoise is the only 'mon you've listed that beats it consistently.

Get rid of roost on Hydreigon for flash cannon. You don't need roost and a choice item. Put a LO on Gengar (seriously) and put a fist plate on Gallade.

As above, you don't need 2 physical boosting sweepers.

 

[The J0ker]

Specs Hydreigon loses to Lati
Gengar has a speed tie
scyther loses

Alright, but is Lati gonna OHKO Scyther or Hydreigon? I really doubt the former.

Get rid of roost on Hydreigon for flash cannon. You don't need roost and a choice item. Put a LO on Gengar (seriously) and put a fist plate on Gallade.

As above, you don't need 2 physical boosting sweepers.

Ah, yeah, forgot about that. Good fairy counter. Good idea.

Alright, the LO probably belongs on her due to her versatility, but Psycho Cut on my Gallade is still pretty weak. I'd rather not have a one-trick pony.

 

[Jimmy L]

Both Latis clean OHKO Specs Hydreigon with Draco Meteor
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 601-710 (184.9 - 218.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 429-507 (132 - 156%) -- guaranteed OHKO

as for Scyther:

It beats Latias as bug bite has a 87% chance to KO but Latias 2HKO's back with Draco Meteor so you're depending on a roll.

Latios:

Latios dies to Scyther so fair enough.

I'm sure not you can say they're not common on the ladder though. They are.

I'd replace Gallade with something a bit stronger. Any other physical pokes you like?

 

[Ryfi110]

Both Latis clean OHKO Specs Hydreigon with Draco Meteor
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 601-710 (184.9 - 218.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 429-507 (132 - 156%) -- guaranteed OHKO

as for Scyther:

It beats Latias as bug bite has a 87% chance to KO but Latias 2HKO's back with Draco Meteor so you're depending on a roll.

Latios:

Latios dies to Scyther so fair enough.

I'm sure not you can say they're not common on the ladder though. They are.

I'd replace Gallade with something a bit stronger. Any other physical pokes you like?

Latios usually runs Orb, Scarf, or Specs.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 255-301 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

If specs, it has a solid chance of OHKOing. Besides, Scyther has a 4x weakness to rocks. If they are up, even Life Orb Psyshock would OHKO. (usually)

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 138-164 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Jimmy L]

I've never seen specs Lati, and Scarf isn't that common.

If anything there you've helped my argument so thanks :D

 

[Ryfi110]

I've never seen specs Lati, and Scarf isn't that common.

If anything there you've helped my argument so thanks :D

Specs is p uncommon, though it exists. Life Orb is the most common. In the case he runs into a specs Latios, scyther cannot check consistently. After stealth rock, Scyther can't check Life Orb.

Also, Scarf Lati can trick you a scarf, making Scyther largely ineffective as a setup sweeper.

 

[Flygonial]

From what I understand, this team is one that you've already bred in-game so I'll try to make some suggestions without changing the team members.

I would like to second Choice Scarf > Choice Specs on Hydreigon as it allows for you to more effectively check Latis. I would also like to suggest Fire Blast > Flamethrower on Hydreigon, because even though Fire Blast's accuracy is imperfect - there's quite a noticeable power difference, using a scarfed Magnezone as demonstration.

252+ SpA Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 230-272 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs.

252+ SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 280-330 (99.6 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

I would also suggest that you run U-turn > Roost on Hydreigon, as being locked into Roost can easily turn it into set-up fodder while U-turn allows for you to predict your opponent switching out and effectively creates the same result as a double switch with minimal risk involved.

I would also second Life Orb > Wise Glasses on Gengar, and I would also suggest a few possible changes that you would take for its moveset. Energy Ball's extra power, even on a glass cannon, is usually considered inferior when Gengar gets Giga Drain via TM. Dazzling Gleam thereotically hits Dark-types, but it's not really worth it and to be honest, pretty weak. The only real relevant dark-type it hits is Mega Sableye, which is 2HKO'd by an Life Orb Shadow Ball anyways. In fact, the rare Umbreon isn't even 2HKO'd by it. Tyranitar is hit harder by Focus Blast and Bisharp definitely is, both of which are very common Dark-Types. Therefore, I suggest Focus Blast > Dazzling Gleam.

Also, it was previously suggested that you run Water Pulse > Scald by Stardust Dragon, but I don't believe the power boost is worth it. If you're going for power, then use Hydro Pump. Scald is only marginally weaker, and the 30% chance to burn is actually quite absurd compared to Water Pulse's paltry 10% chance to confuse. Essentially, Scald > Water Pulse.

I would suggest that you evolve Scyther to make yourself less weak to Latis, but HP Fire has been on the rise lately so...

For EV spread changes, I would suggest that you move the 4 HP in Scyther to one of its defenses - this will reduce the amount of damage it takes from Stealth Rock provided its IVs give it an odd amount of HP naturally, and will allow for it to switch into Stealth Rocks twice before fainting. I also would advise against using U-turn on a set-up sweeper, so I would suggest that you put on either Superpower or Knock Off in its place. Superpower prevents Scyther from being hard walled by some steel-types, while Knock Off is a general safety net move. If you want to play Scyther as a bulkier set-up sweeper, or allow for it to more reliably check a Lati, then you could run Roost > Bug Bite for the recovery while still retaining Superpower for coverage.

For Steelix, I would personally change its set to have Dragon Tail or Toxic over Stone Edge on a team I built but your team doesn't need to be any more Talonflame weak, so I would advise against changing its moveset.

For Gallade, I would suggest Knock Off > Destiny Bond. Much of what would try to revenge kill Gallade would outspeed it before you manage to pull a Destiny Bond, and Knock Off rounds off Gallade's coverage so that it doesn't get walled by Psychic-types, and lets you at least touch a weakened Mega Sableye. I can see Mega Sableye being a big issue to your team, so while Dragon Tail on Steelix might be beneficial for preventing it from sweeping you, it's usage has somewhat declined, whereas Talonflame is still rather common.

Oh, and sorry to burst your bubble, but winning 60-65% of your battles is not considered particularly impressive on the ladder. Many people in the lower ladder will build around their favorites, but they have a tendency to not have much more than a basic grasp of game mechanics. The majority of people playing on the ladder are on lower ladder, so that would make anybody decent's GXE about 70% provided they don't get haxed to death by their opponents multiple times through multiple matches. Also saying this in case you don't know, if you click on your name and see your profile for your ranking, the GXE is an estimate based off of your win/loss ratio to determine your chance of winning against a random opponent on the ladder.

 

[The J0ker]

So much math!

From what I understand, this team is one that you've already bred in-game so I'll try to make some suggestions without changing the team members.

Yeah, not gonna bother with new team members at this point.

I would like to second Choice Scarf > Choice Specs on Hydreigon as it allows for you to more effectively check Latis. I would also like to suggest Fire Blast > Flamethrower on Hydreigon, because even though Fire Blast's accuracy is imperfect - there's quite a noticeable power difference, using a scarfed Magnezone as demonstration.

Alright, alright, I get it, for the love of Arceus no more math! I'll test the scarf and Fire Blast out, see how it goes.

I would also suggest that you run U-turn > Roost on Hydreigon, as being locked into Roost can easily turn it into set-up fodder while U-turn allows for you to predict your opponent switching out and effectively creates the same result as a double switch with minimal risk involved.

Ehhhh. I dunno, I think I wanna try Flash Cannon first. Besides, alright got U-Turn on my Scyther, who benefits from STAB.

I would also second Life Orb > Wise Glasses on Gengar, and I would also suggest a few possible changes that you would take for its moveset. Energy Ball's extra power, even on a glass cannon, is usually considered inferior when Gengar gets Giga Drain via TM. Dazzling Gleam thereotically hits Dark-types, but it's not really worth it and to be honest, pretty weak. The only real relevant dark-type it hits is Mega Sableye, which is 2HKO'd by an Life Orb Shadow Ball anyways. In fact, the rare Umbreon isn't even 2HKO'd by it. Tyranitar is hit harder by Focus Blast and Bisharp definitely is, both of which are very common Dark-Types. Therefore, I suggest Focus Blast > Dazzling Gleam.

Eh. I think I'll stick with the extra power. I don't think it's worth the gamble waiting for a Water or Ground type for Giga Drain when Gengar's frail as is.

Dazzling Gleam covers Fighting and Dragon types as well though, and doesn't suffer from the lack of accuracy.

Also, it was previously suggested that you run Water Pulse > Scald by Stardust Dragon, but I don't believe the power boost is worth it. If you're going for power, then use Hydro Pump. Scald is only marginally weaker, and the 30% chance to burn is actually quite absurd compared to Water Pulse's paltry 10% chance to confuse. Essentially, Scald > Water Pulse.

Hydro Pump's got pretty crappy accuracy too, and no additional effect. I was thinking of going back to Scald though, because confusion can be gotten rid of with a switch. Hmm. Gonna test this further.

I would suggest that you evolve Scyther to make yourself less weak to Latis, but HP Fire has been on the rise lately so...

I'm surprised you're the first person to tell me to evolve my Scyther :P

For EV spread changes, I would suggest that you move the 4 HP in Scyther to one of its defenses - this will reduce the amount of damage it takes from Stealth Rock provided its IVs give it an odd amount of HP naturally, and will allow for it to switch into Stealth Rocks twice before fainting. I also would advise against using U-turn on a set-up sweeper, so I would suggest that you put on either Superpower or Knock Off in its place. Superpower prevents Scyther from being hard walled by some steel-types, while Knock Off is a general safety net move. If you want to play Scyther as a bulkier set-up sweeper, or allow for it to more reliably check a Lati, then you could run Roost > Bug Bite for the recovery while still retaining Superpower for coverage.

Scyther's go the same stats in both defense.

Superpower would basically function as better version of Brick Break. I like that, buuuut Hydreigon won't do much damage with U-Turn as a special attacker... Maybe I'll just not run U-Turn. I'll test Superpower and see how it goes.

For Gallade, I would suggest Knock Off > Destiny Bond. Much of what would try to revenge kill Gallade would outspeed it before you manage to pull a Destiny Bond, and Knock Off rounds off Gallade's coverage so that it doesn't get walled by Psychic-types, and lets you at least touch a weakened Mega Sableye. I can see Mega Sableye being a big issue to your team, so while Dragon Tail on Steelix might be beneficial for preventing it from sweeping you, it's usage has somewhat declined, whereas Talonflame is still rather common.

Ooooooooooooor I could give him U-Turn instead. That hits Psychic types hard too. Alright, I'll do Flash Cannon/Fire Blast on Hydreigon, Superpower on Scyther, U-Turn on Gallade and I'll consider going back to Scald. Not quite sure about that last one though, but we'll see.

Oh, and sorry to burst your bubble, but winning 60-65% of your battles is not considered particularly impressive on the ladder. Many people in the lower ladder will build around their favorites, but they have a tendency to not have much more than a basic grasp of game mechanics. The majority of people playing on the ladder are on lower ladder, so that would make anybody decent's GXE about 70% provided they don't get haxed to death by their opponents multiple times through multiple matches. Also saying this in case you don't know, if you click on your name and see your profile for your ranking, the GXE is an estimate based off of your win/loss ratio to determine your chance of winning against a random opponent on the ladder.

Ah. Well, I'm relatively new to this stuff. Hopefully my % will grow.

 

[Sablenite]

Along with everyone else I'll suggest this:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- FIre Blast
- Flash Cannon / U-turn

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Bug Bite
- Batton Pass / Roost
- Swords Dance

Gengar @ Life Orb / Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain / Taunt (if Life Orb) / Substitute (if Black Sludge)

 

[Flygonial]

So much math!

Yeah, not gonna bother with new team members at this point.

Alright, alright, I get it, for the love of Arceus no more math! I'll test the scarf and Fire Blast out, see how it goes.

Ehhhh. I dunno, I think I wanna try Flash Cannon first. Besides, alright got U-Turn on my Scyther, who benefits from STAB.

Eh. I think I'll stick with the extra power. I don't think it's worth the gamble waiting for a Water or Ground type for Giga Drain when Gengar's frail as is.

Dazzling Gleam covers Fighting and Dragon types as well though, and doesn't suffer from the lack of accuracy.

Hydro Pump's got pretty crappy accuracy too, and no additional effect. I was thinking of going back to Scald though, because confusion can be gotten rid of with a switch. Hmm. Gonna test this further.

I'm surprised you're the first person to tell me to evolve my Scyther :P

Scyther's go the same stats in both defense.

Superpower would basically function as better version of Brick Break. I like that, buuuut Hydreigon won't do much damage with U-Turn as a special attacker... Maybe I'll just not run U-Turn. I'll test Superpower and see how it goes.

Ooooooooooooor I could give him U-Turn instead. That hits Psychic types hard too. Alright, I'll do Flash Cannon/Fire Blast on Hydreigon, Superpower on Scyther, U-Turn on Gallade and I'll consider going back to Scald. Not quite sure about that last one though, but we'll see.

Ah. Well, I'm relatively new to this stuff. Hopefully my % will grow.

Well, if reliability is what you're going for, then suit yourself. The only problem is Gallade can't learn U-turn, and I'm not sure if you understood what I said about Scyther. I meant that it would be better to have the 4 EVs in HP in another stat where it can fit.

 

[The J0ker]

Team 3.0

BlitzBreaker (Blastoise) (M) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin

Jessica (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Stryker (Scyther) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Aerial Ace
- U-turn
- Swords Dance

Draiman (Steelix) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Grayson (Gallade) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Psycho Cut
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off

Osbourne (Hydreigon) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon

Here's what I got after some adjustments. Superpower isn't given to Scyther, unfortunately :(

 

[Jimmy L]

WHY DOES YOUR HYDREIGON STILL HAVE SPECS OH MY GOD

and Giga drain > energy ball on gengar

 

[The J0ker]

WHY DOES YOUR HYDREIGON STILL HAVE SPECS OH MY GOD

and Giga drain > energy ball on gengar

Oh, my bad, didn't notice that. Changing.

I considered it, but really, I prefer damage output over a bit of healing for a frail Gengar.

 

[Flygonial]

Oh, my bad, didn't notice that. Changing.

I considered it, but really, I prefer damage output over a bit of healing for a frail Gengar.

The damage output is almost irrelevant compared to how much it heals. There's a reason why a Mega Sceptile running Giga Drain doesn't run Energy Ball - and since it's STAB there's an even larger power difference after that. Healing 1/2 of the damage you deal is likely going to help Gengar more than a little bit of power will.

 

[Ryfi110]

The damage output is almost irrelevant compared to how much it heals. There's a reason why a Mega Sceptile running Giga Drain doesn't run Energy Ball - and since it's STAB there's an even larger power difference after that. Healing 1/2 of the damage you deal is likely going to help Gengar more than a little bit of power will.

First, Energy Ball < Giga Drain < Focus Blast

Giga Drain is largely situational, as you only use it against mons 4x weak, with perhaps AN exception.

Also, I would recommend evolving scyther. SD Scizor works much better, as the resistances it gains allow it to do some really nice stuff. Since having two setup sweepers is kind of counter productive, you could use Scyther as a nice source of priority, while also having a technician BP to 2HKO lots of threats.

I could do some "math" if you would like me to prove it, but you seem to find it confusing more so than supportive.

 

[Flygonial]

First, Energy Ball < Giga Drain < Focus Blast

Giga Drain is largely situational, as you only use it against mons 4x weak, with perhaps AN exception.

Also, I would recommend evolving scyther. SD Scizor works much better, as the resistances it gains allow it to do some really nice stuff. Since having two setup sweepers is kind of counter productive, you could use Scyther as a nice source of priority, while also having a technician BP to 2HKO lots of threats.

I could do some "math" if you would like me to prove it, but you seem to find it confusing more so than supportive.

True, but he doesn't seem to like using inaccurate moves and such, doesn't want to use Focus Blast over Dazzling Gleam, Giga Drain, or both.

I second using Focus Blast though, for a few reasons:

-Shadow Ball hits some dragons like Latios and Latias harder.
-Defensive Garchomp is 2HKO'd by Gengar with a little prior damage, let alone offensive variants. Dazzling Gleam cannot OHKO a Naive Offensive Garchomp.
-Gengar doesn't need to cover fighting types with Dazzling Gleam, since they're all either 2HKO'd by Sludge Wave/Shadow Ball or can't even be reliably 2HKO'd by Dazzling Gleam (Conkeldurr).
-Focus Blast hits the two most common dark-types, Tyranitar and Bisharp - both big thorns in Gengar's side - harder than Dazzling Gleam ever will.

 

[The J0ker]

Also, I would recommend evolving scyther. SD Scizor works much better, as the resistances it gains allow it to do some really nice stuff. Since having two setup sweepers is kind of counter productive, you could use Scyther as a nice source of priority, while also having a technician BP to 2HKO lots of threats.

Surprised it took this long for some to suggest this. However, what Scyther lacks in that power boost in evolution, he loses a lot of speed. Sure, there's Bullet Punch, but between Bug Bite, Aerial Ace and possibly something else if I can switch U-Turn to someone else, I can hit more super effectively. Scyther's defenses are also much better than Scizor's with the eviolite, and really, I think the Stealth Rock weakness is overrated - Volcarona and Charizard are crippled by it too, but that doesn't mean they're totally worthless mons. Truth be told, I don't actually use Swords Dance all that often - only if I feel it's necessary and I can take a hit.

True, but he doesn't seem to like using inaccurate moves and such, doesn't want to use Focus Blast over Dazzling Gleam, Giga Drain, or both.

I second using Focus Blast though, for a few reasons:

-Shadow Ball hits some dragons like Latios and Latias harder.
-Defensive Garchomp is 2HKO'd by Gengar with a little prior damage, let alone offensive variants. Dazzling Gleam cannot OHKO a Naive Offensive Garchomp.
-Gengar doesn't need to cover fighting types with Dazzling Gleam, since they're all either 2HKO'd by Sludge Wave/Shadow Ball or can't even be reliably 2HKO'd by Dazzling Gleam (Conkeldurr).
-Focus Blast hits the two most common dark-types, Tyranitar and Bisharp - both big thorns in Gengar's side - harder than Dazzling Gleam ever will.

Good points. I'll try this out. Dazzling Gleam wasn't getting the job done nearly as well as her STAB moves.

 

[Ryfi110]

Surprised it took this long for some to suggest this. However, what Scyther lacks in that power boost in evolution, he loses a lot of speed. Sure, there's Bullet Punch, but between Bug Bite, Aerial Ace and possibly something else if I can switch U-Turn to someone else, I can hit more super effectively. Scyther's defenses are also much better than Scizor's with the eviolite, and really, I think the Stealth Rock weakness is overrated - Volcarona and Charizard are crippled by it too, but that doesn't mean they're totally worthless mons. Truth be told, I don't actually use Swords Dance all that often - only if I feel it's necessary and I can take a hit.



Good points. I'll try this out. Dazzling Gleam wasn't getting the job done nearly as well as her STAB moves.

Scizor can almost always take a hit. He is only weak to a single type: fire. Even fire types fear switching in; Knock Off still hits like a truck. With enough prior damage, BP is able to iron out the kinks.

These following calcs are at +2.

If Entei comes in after a swords dance:
+2 252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 265-312 (71.4 - 84%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It can then click Extremespeed, because otherwise BP KOs from that range. Since Entei's item is knocked off,
252+ Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 44-52 (15.6 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252+ Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 81-96 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- 5.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

If Victini decides to come in...

+2 252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 312-368 (91.4 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Talonflame decides to come in...

+2 252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 307-362 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Zard Y comes in, post-evo: +2 252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 190-224 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Zard X comes in, post-evo: +2 252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Charizard: 192-226 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

To a physical defensive Garchomp: +2 252+ Atk Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 214-252 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

If you come in on p much anything not carrying a fire move, you can kill nearly anything.

 

[The J0ker]

Even with the boost of knocking off an item though, Bug Bite and Aerial Ace still do better damage, and Scyther's gonna outspeed a lot of things Scizor can't. Scyther can tank pretty much any move that's named named Stone Edge, anyways.

Scyther vs Scizor all boils down to speed vs survival. My team is pretty speed-heavy, so I've made Scyther work much better for this team. Scizor's probably the better option four times outta five, I get that, but I've made my decision.