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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
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You're assuming that Ditto uses Transform to breed, which as you pointed out, doesn't make sense with Genderless or Gendered pokemon. Isn't it more likely Ditto just breeds with them as a blob and allows it's unstable genetic code to handle the rest?
At risk of being a killjoy, I feel like incest is so incredibly common with how breeding works that Ditto doesn’t really stand out here. Even then, I feel like there’s enough evidence that Eggs as we see them aren’t strictly the same as biological reproduction - they’re not present in PLA, they were seemingly discovered in poke-year 1999 by Mr. Pokemon, that one line from a gen 6 NPC about eggs being closer to capsules, and so on
however! It is still weird and funny and that’s what matters, really
So apparently I'm going off on ALL the wild and wacky tangents lately but that's how I roll
There's not really a thread for this but this...
...made me think of something else:
Thinking over the Sevii Islands, they feel very much like a primitive version of the DLC areas in SwSh. They, of course, don't have their own dex listing like the Isle of Armour and the Crown Tundra do, making do with the standard National listing instead; however I feel like if they appeared in a modern game (or simply if FRLG were made today) they probably would do. There's a good amount of Kanto and Johto Pokemon (and even a couple of Hoenn ones) that appear in the islands but a lot of missing ones too, so I reckon you could knock up a good-sized Pokedex out of the species obtainable in the islands. I can never resist a good list so let's take a quick look at what appears where...
There's not really a thread for this but this...
...made me think of something else:
Thinking over the Sevii Islands, they feel very much like a primitive version of the DLC areas in SwSh. They, of course, don't have their own dex listing like the Isle of Armour and the Crown Tundra do, making do with the standard National listing instead; however I feel like if they appeared in a modern game (or simply if FRLG were made today) they probably would do. There's a good amount of Kanto and Johto Pokemon (and even a couple of Hoenn ones) that appear in the islands but a lot of missing ones too, so I reckon you could knock up a good-sized Pokedex out of the species obtainable in the islands. I can never resist a good list so let's take a quick look at what appears where...
One Island has - Meowth, Persian, Tangela, Spearow, Fearow, Psyduck, Golduck, Shellder, Cloyster, Geodude, Graveler, Slowpoke, Tentacool, Tentacruel, Magikarp, Gyarados, Horsea, Seadra, Krabby, Kingler, Machop, Machoke, Ponyta, Rapidash, Magmar, Slugma, Magcargo
Two Island adds - Oddish, Gloom, Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Goldeen, Seaking, Bellsprout, Weepinbell (hey look at that, Two Island is the only one in the chain without any Johto Pokemon, how sad)
Three Island adds - Dunsparce, Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Venonat, Drowzee, Hypno, Exeggcute
Four Island adds - Seel, Dewgong, Zubat, Golbat, Wooper, Marill, Delibird, Sneasel, Swinub, Lapras
Five Island adds - Hoppip, Remoraid, Sentret, Gastly, Haunter, Murkrow, Misdreavus
Six Island adds - Yanma, Qwilfish, Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Ledyba, Spinarak, Heracross, Natu, Wobbuffet (huh, the more you know... I always thought Wobbuffet was only in Cerulean Cave in FRLG)
Seven Island adds - Mantine, Phanpy, Cubone, Marowak, Larvitar, Skarmory, Onix, Unown
Special/gift Pokemon - Moltres, Togepi, Lugia, Ho-oh, Deoxys
Not a bad bunch at all - definitely gives us a pretty decent amount to make a Sevii Islands regional dex. There's even potential to do two listings: one for Islands 1-3 pre-NatDex, and one for all 7 islands after they're unlocked. I deliberately left out all the Altering Cave species since they were always meant to be event-only and non-native.
Let's do it then.
appalling type diversity, no fully-evolved Ghost-types for you if you're playing FireRed, no fully-evolved Steel-types for you if you're playing LeafGreen, and no Dragons at all without trading, 0/10 terrible Pokedex
Notable missing Kanto species: Nidorans, Pikachu, Eevee, Scyther, Jynx, Electabuzz, Porygon, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, Dratini
Notable missing Johto species: Mareep, Hoothoot, Miltank, Houndour, Shuckle, Chinchou, Sudowoodo, Gligar, Sunkern, Smeargle, all babies except Magby
Notable missing Hoenn species: ...well pretty much all of them
But yeah honestly I'm kind of digging this as a regional dex, ngl. If I knew how to make fangames I'd be all over this...
Two Island adds - Oddish, Gloom, Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Goldeen, Seaking, Bellsprout, Weepinbell (hey look at that, Two Island is the only one in the chain without any Johto Pokemon, how sad)
Three Island adds - Dunsparce, Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Venonat, Drowzee, Hypno, Exeggcute
Four Island adds - Seel, Dewgong, Zubat, Golbat, Wooper, Marill, Delibird, Sneasel, Swinub, Lapras
Five Island adds - Hoppip, Remoraid, Sentret, Gastly, Haunter, Murkrow, Misdreavus
Six Island adds - Yanma, Qwilfish, Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Ledyba, Spinarak, Heracross, Natu, Wobbuffet (huh, the more you know... I always thought Wobbuffet was only in Cerulean Cave in FRLG)
Seven Island adds - Mantine, Phanpy, Cubone, Marowak, Larvitar, Skarmory, Onix, Unown
Special/gift Pokemon - Moltres, Togepi, Lugia, Ho-oh, Deoxys
Not a bad bunch at all - definitely gives us a pretty decent amount to make a Sevii Islands regional dex. There's even potential to do two listings: one for Islands 1-3 pre-NatDex, and one for all 7 islands after they're unlocked. I deliberately left out all the Altering Cave species since they were always meant to be event-only and non-native.
Let's do it then.
- Krabby
- Kingler
- Machop
- Machoke
- Machamp
- Spearow
- Fearow
- Meowth
- Persian
- Geodude
- Graveler
- Golem
- Psyduck
- Golduck
- Slowpoke
- Slowbro
- Tentacool
- Tentacruel
- Magikarp
- Gyarados
- Horsea
- Seadra
- Tangela
- Magmar
- Ponyta
- Rapidash
- Poliwag
- Poliwhirl
- Poliwrath
- Goldeen
- Seaking
- Bellsprout
- Weepinbell
- Victreebel
- Oddish
- Gloom
- Vileplume
- Venonat
- Venomoth
- Drowzee
- Hypno
- Shellder
- Cloyster
- Pidgey
- Pidgeotto
- Pidgeot
- Exeggcute
- Exeggutor
- Moltres
- Krabby
- Kingler
- Machop
- Machoke
- Machamp
- Spearow
- Fearow
- Meowth
- Persian
- Geodude
- Graveler
- Golem
- Psyduck
- Golduck
- Slowpoke
- Slowbro
- Slowking
- Tentacool
- Tentacruel
- Magikarp
- Gyarados
- Horsea
- Seadra
- Kingdra
- Tangela
- Magby
- Magmar
- Ponyta
- Rapidash
- Slugma
- Magcargo
- Poliwag
- Poliwhirl
- Poliwrath
- Politoed
- Goldeen
- Seaking
- Bellsprout
- Weepinbell
- Victreebel
- Oddish
- Gloom
- Vileplume
- Bellossom
- Venonat
- Venomoth
- Drowzee
- Hypno
- Shellder
- Cloyster
- Pidgey
- Pidgeotto
- Pidgeot
- Exeggcute
- Exeggutor
- Zubat
- Golbat
- Crobat
- Dunsparce
- Seel
- Dewgong
- Swinub
- Piloswine
- Sneasel
- Delibird
- Wooper
- Quagsire
- Azurill
- Marill
- Azumarill
- Lapras
- Remoraid
- Octillery
- Hoppip
- Skiploom
- Jumpluff
- Sentret
- Furret
- Gastly
- Haunter
- Gengar
- Murkrow
- Misdreavus
- Natu
- Xatu
- Yanma
- Wynaut
- Wobbuffet
- Qwilfish
- Caterpie
- Metapod
- Butterfree
- Ledyba
- Ledian
- Spinarak
- Ariados
- Weedle
- Kakuna
- Beedrill
- Heracross
- Mantine
- Phanpy
- Donphan
- Skarmory
- Cubone
- Marowak
- Unown
- Larvitar
- Pupitar
- Tyranitar
- Togepi
- Togetic
- Moltres
- Lugia
- Ho-Oh
- Deoxys
Notable missing Kanto species: Nidorans, Pikachu, Eevee, Scyther, Jynx, Electabuzz, Porygon, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, Dratini
Notable missing Johto species: Mareep, Hoothoot, Miltank, Houndour, Shuckle, Chinchou, Sudowoodo, Gligar, Sunkern, Smeargle, all babies except Magby
Notable missing Hoenn species: ...well pretty much all of them
But yeah honestly I'm kind of digging this as a regional dex, ngl. If I knew how to make fangames I'd be all over this...
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I was honestly thinking the Sevii Islands feel a lot like the DLCs of SwSh and SV myself, and in addition to the Pokedex stuff and being external areas that have their own Pokemon separate from the mainland region, they also seemed to be the primitive blueprint of the concept of side campaign areas and a dedicated post-game area.
What I mean is that the way Sevii was implemented was that the first three islands were accessible as a side campaign designed to be slotted into the main Kanto experience, something you go to directly after beating Blaine and being its own side quest and additional grinding spot, while the last four islands had more non-Kanto native Pokemon and were a dedicated post-game area with their own post-game quest like the HGSS Kanto Gym Challenge or the ORAS Delta Episode.
While we don't know for certain how SV will act, SwSh did a similar concept with the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra. The Isle of Armor was designed as a side campaign and side area designed to be slotted into the main game experience and done alongside the main SwSh quest, while the Crown Tundra was more of a dedicated post-game quest and area designed to be done and explored after beating the main game campaign, even unlocking a new Galarian Star Tournament and upgraded Champion Cup teams like Sevii would for FRLG and the Elite Four.
SV hasn't been released yet but it's very likely it'll act similarly with Teal Mask being a side campaign slotted into the main one and Kitakami a side area, while Indigo Disk will be post-game with the Blueberry Academy being a post-game area with a post-game quest. In all cases having Pokemon not native to mainland Galar or Paldea.
What I mean is that the way Sevii was implemented was that the first three islands were accessible as a side campaign designed to be slotted into the main Kanto experience, something you go to directly after beating Blaine and being its own side quest and additional grinding spot, while the last four islands had more non-Kanto native Pokemon and were a dedicated post-game area with their own post-game quest like the HGSS Kanto Gym Challenge or the ORAS Delta Episode.
While we don't know for certain how SV will act, SwSh did a similar concept with the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra. The Isle of Armor was designed as a side campaign and side area designed to be slotted into the main game experience and done alongside the main SwSh quest, while the Crown Tundra was more of a dedicated post-game quest and area designed to be done and explored after beating the main game campaign, even unlocking a new Galarian Star Tournament and upgraded Champion Cup teams like Sevii would for FRLG and the Elite Four.
SV hasn't been released yet but it's very likely it'll act similarly with Teal Mask being a side campaign slotted into the main one and Kitakami a side area, while Indigo Disk will be post-game with the Blueberry Academy being a post-game area with a post-game quest. In all cases having Pokemon not native to mainland Galar or Paldea.
I think Blueberry will be something you can still do before beating the game, even if you really shouldn't be doing it just from the levels involved, but will have an extended segment designed around "you've beaten the game".
Tundra experimented with that a little; you couldn't finish the Calyrex quest until beating the game, which means you can't do the Necrozma quest, which locks off the Galrian Star Tournament finale.
I think in general they don't want players to "have" to wait to experience the second part of the DLC until you've beaten the game, so they do this kind of weird half-motion. At the very least I imagine most of the stuff in the Academy itself wouldn't require much battling.
https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/news/dlc_intro/
these are the same conditions as the swsh expansion pass except that you also need to complete the main story of The Teal Mask in addition to reaching SV’s ending before you can start The Indigo Disk
Oh! I had missed that news, that's really interesting.View attachment 530164
https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/news/dlc_intro/
these are the same conditions as the swsh expansion pass except that you also need to complete the main story of The Teal Mask in addition to reaching SV’s ending before you can start The Indigo Disk
Indigo Disk requiring part 1 to complete does answer one lingering thought I had, which was how involved the 2 new characters would wind up being. They go to Blueberry & then in their uniforms are featured in the artwork; in my "you can do it even before beating the game" theory, I assumed they would just be conspiciously away for the first part, then come back once you'd completed completed Mask and main story for the last leg.
So this let's them do a lot more with the Area Zero stuff from the onset, which is neat.
Space-Time distortions in Legends: Arceus bring Pokemon from across time and space into Hisui. The Pokemon found within these distortions are often either evolutions tied to trades, such as Gengar, Scizor, and Magmortar, Eeveelutions, and Pokemon that will inhabit Hisui in the future, such as Johtoian Sneasel, Porygon, and Magnetmite. There are two more groups that create interesting implications for this though.
The Sinnoh Fossils are found in distortions, implying either fossil Pokemon were always Rock types, the distortions resurrected fossils found in the Coronet Highlands, also implying they were always Rock types, or already resurrected fossils from present day from some sort of facility are sent back in time.
If we presume every Pokemon in distortions are from the future though, then that includes fully evolved Hisuian starters, which implies that these Hisuian forms don't become extinct in the future, or even every Hisuian form survives in some way.
Additionally, while their presence only in the postgame can be chalked to just being a reward for beating the game and for obtaining Alpha forms of the starters, it can also be interpreted as the player changing the future to ensure their future existence. All of this makes keeps making me wish BDSP was more tied to Legends beyond Ramanas Island and the "The Sea's Legend " story.
The Sinnoh Fossils are found in distortions, implying either fossil Pokemon were always Rock types, the distortions resurrected fossils found in the Coronet Highlands, also implying they were always Rock types, or already resurrected fossils from present day from some sort of facility are sent back in time.
If we presume every Pokemon in distortions are from the future though, then that includes fully evolved Hisuian starters, which implies that these Hisuian forms don't become extinct in the future, or even every Hisuian form survives in some way.
Additionally, while their presence only in the postgame can be chalked to just being a reward for beating the game and for obtaining Alpha forms of the starters, it can also be interpreted as the player changing the future to ensure their future existence. All of this makes keeps making me wish BDSP was more tied to Legends beyond Ramanas Island and the "The Sea's Legend " story.
"The future" can also just as easily be like....The immediate future.
Like it can already reach into the far past, and the far future, but there's no indication it can't just reach into the medium past or the short future.
If you wanted an actual conspiracy it's probably less "we're changing the future" and more by virtue of the starters showing up at all, all of them non-native to the region brought in by the Galaxy Explorerers, the team has introduced an adaptive species to Hisui and that's going to cause some short-term population changes before they go away.
Like it can already reach into the far past, and the far future, but there's no indication it can't just reach into the medium past or the short future.
If you wanted an actual conspiracy it's probably less "we're changing the future" and more by virtue of the starters showing up at all, all of them non-native to the region brought in by the Galaxy Explorerers, the team has introduced an adaptive species to Hisui and that's going to cause some short-term population changes before they go away.
Going through the Brave Bird Bulbapedia page who don't have wings:
- Blaziken: Coronis jokes but, honestly, I could see it substituting its long mane as wings (while also probably holding back its arms)
- Tapu Koko: Substitutes its shell covers for wings.
- Mew: Whenver Mew uses a Move that requires a body part it doesn't have I imagine it creating a pseudo body part made from psychic energy. So in this case it'll cover its arms in wings made of psychic energy. Alternatively, Mew does learn Transform, so it could possibly also be physically altering its body to do a Move but only temporarily.
- Doduo family: Well Doduo they are said to have wings, they're just so small and already against resting their body (which is covered in fluffy down) we just don't see them. Same could be for Dodrio, though no wings are ever mentioned, however it does now have tail feathers it could substitute with. Or, more obvious, instead of their wings they tuck in their extended heads and legs.
Actually Flare Blitz wasn't going to have a drawback at all, but then they realized one day Flareon may get it so added one to keep it in its place.
For anyone interested in my
You're overlooking the "space" part of Timespace Distortions. The distortions aren't just displacing Pokemon (and possibly items) from different times, but also displacing them from different places and possibly timelines (maybe even dimensions). I mean, for some reason Ingo, a trainer for modern Unova, was sent to Meiji Sinnoh. Was he in Sinnoh when this occurred, or did a distortion for some reason appear in Unova?
And it could also very well be Arceus's doing. After the player helps in calming Dialga & Palkia (and dealing with the Volo & Giratina issue), Arceus gains control of the Timespace Distortions and decides to use them to assure the existence of the Hisuian Pokemon who otherwise don't make it to the modern day.
I never joke.
So, a while back when we were discussing Geeta, I discovered a little interesting thing about her. In SV's post game, after you do the Gym Leader Rechallenges, Geeta asks you a few questions. For most of the questions it doesn't matter what you answer (I'm curious if the game even stored our answer and, if it did, GF plan on doing something with it in the DLCs). However I just learned that for one of the questions Geeta actually has different responses. Her final question is "Which Gym Leader did you like the most?" and gives the following responses depending on who you pick:
OR maybe I'm just reading too much into a few words which, in normal gameplay, the player would only see one reaction so not really have anything to compare it too.
For a second there Geeta's stern demeaner slips and she reveals possibly how she feels about certain Gym Leaders, with there being some favoritism if I were to indulge reading between the lines.What Geeta Thinks said:
- For Katy its a general, almost unsurprised response. Like she's slightly amused that you chose the Gym Leader she asked to hold back so new trainers could more easily defeat her (maybe even feeling a bit of satisfaction that her "advice" might have appealed trainers to Katy?).
- She's more intrigued for Brassius. Not in a way she wasn't expecting him to be possibly said, though she may feel Brassius wouldn't be her top choice; wondering what about Brassius extravagance may have fascinated the player.
- Kofu seems to be who she was almost expecting to be said. Of course the player would like grandpa Kofu, EVERYONE loves grandpa Kofu!
- Which may hint Geeta is a bit old fashioned or conservative when it comes to what she thinks is appealing. It's why saying Iono surprises her, possibly suggesting Geeta may not be as "hip" with the younger generation who are more involved in social media and online personalities.
- And she's left completely confused when you say Larry. She says "I see", but I don't think she does at all. She's wondering, after all the colorful Gym Leaders you met, it's plain ol' "filling in because he was ordered to", unenthused, self-admittedly boring Larry you liked the most (which makes me wonder how much she appreciates all the hoops she makes Larry jump through).
- Another one that confuses her but more in a shocking way is Grusha. It's hard not to feel pushed away by Grusha's icy personality, and this must especially be true with Geeta as Grusha shown he has some issue with her as he feels like any time now she'll take away his Gym Leader status; a title which he feels is all he has left after being forced to retire from being a snowboarder. It's possible Geeta doesn't even know that's the issue, Grusha just gives her the cold shoulder and yet she doesn't feel compelled to question it.
- Her response for Ryme could be taken a few ways, but since she said it plainly (ending with a period) instead of excitedly (!) or questioning (?), I take it she doesn't quite agree. Ryme got pretty heated when it was the player who came to do the Gym inspection instead of Geeta, feeling disrespected. Unlike the other Gym Leaders, I imagine Ryme had told Geeta her mind plenty of times. And while Geeta would recognize that such bold behavior would attract young & equally as brash trainers, she doesn't like it especially when its criticizing her.
- And finally we have Tulip which she reveals is her answer. I can see why, Tulip is not only beautiful and elegant but also confident and in-charge. It's personality traits which Geeta sees in herself, or at least would like to believe she has. But Tulip can also be haughty and vain at her worse times, so the question is does Geeta see these faults or is she too focused on the "positive" traits she doesn't realize how negative this attitude can come off as (especially if not well handled).
OR maybe I'm just reading too much into a few words which, in normal gameplay, the player would only see one reaction so not really have anything to compare it too.
The wording probably is meant to mean something, little slips into what Geeta herself thinks, the fact they wrote different reactions tracks with that.
But yeah some of that is just open to interpretation. Considering how short they are, it's a lot on how you want to read into Geeta as a whole.
I want to hone in one Tulip specifically though because I think it's interesting that Geeta likes Tulip to some degree, but Tulip does not particularly like Geeta. That's a throughline on many of the gym leaders (see: Ryme. It's equally interesting to me that there seems to be mutual friction between the pair), but the other gym leader responses don't get such a comparatively glowing response for saying you like them more. Except kofu, but everyone loves Kofu!
But yeah some of that is just open to interpretation. Considering how short they are, it's a lot on how you want to read into Geeta as a whole.
I want to hone in one Tulip specifically though because I think it's interesting that Geeta likes Tulip to some degree, but Tulip does not particularly like Geeta. That's a throughline on many of the gym leaders (see: Ryme. It's equally interesting to me that there seems to be mutual friction between the pair), but the other gym leader responses don't get such a comparatively glowing response for saying you like them more. Except kofu, but everyone loves Kofu!
Tulip being implied as Geeta's favorite is funny because this reasoning is likely accurate, and ironically, it leads to Tulip herself not exactly liking Geeta all that much contrarily.
Just before the post-game rematch:
"Just between you and me, I'm not exactly her biggest fan. That bewitching aura of hers overlaps too much with my own style."
There's a clear sense that the two are similar in that regard: confident and in-charge. Geeta seems to like that vibe from Tulip, but Tulip senses that Geeta's vibes are like her own and...doesn't really vibe with that.
It's an interesting dichotomy.
I've been playing both the Gen III Frontier and the Subway in Gen V recently so naturally have spent a lot of time poring over enemy sets, and noticed something that intrigues me.
In Emerald, natures that compromise defences like Lonely, Rash, and Hasty are only found in the "bad Pokemon" lists (i.e. NFE and low-BST species)*. Whereas in the "top tier" of Pokemon, mixed attackers like Houndoom and Glalie never compromise their defences or their offenses to be so - if a Pokemon has a physical move and a special move on the same set, it typically runs a neutral nature like Docile, Quirky, or Serious or else will be Brave/Quiet. Looking at the sets for Gen IV's corresponding "top tier" the same appears to be true - everything mixed, like Electivire and Articuno, has a neutral nature.
Makes sense, why compromise any of the stats you'll be needing - lowering your offenses just makes you less efficient at killing stuff, lowering your defences makes you easier to kill.
In Gen V, though, it starts to get funky and none of what I've just said applies. Just from a quick scan of the list, we've got
*Note that Emerald splits its Frontier pools into three groups which can be broadly thought of as bottom, middle, and top; the Subway has two broad pools, basically just Super and non-Super.
In Emerald, natures that compromise defences like Lonely, Rash, and Hasty are only found in the "bad Pokemon" lists (i.e. NFE and low-BST species)*. Whereas in the "top tier" of Pokemon, mixed attackers like Houndoom and Glalie never compromise their defences or their offenses to be so - if a Pokemon has a physical move and a special move on the same set, it typically runs a neutral nature like Docile, Quirky, or Serious or else will be Brave/Quiet. Looking at the sets for Gen IV's corresponding "top tier" the same appears to be true - everything mixed, like Electivire and Articuno, has a neutral nature.
Makes sense, why compromise any of the stats you'll be needing - lowering your offenses just makes you less efficient at killing stuff, lowering your defences makes you easier to kill.
In Gen V, though, it starts to get funky and none of what I've just said applies. Just from a quick scan of the list, we've got
- a mixed Probopass that runs Calm even though it knows Smack Down
- Lonely AND Naughty Gyarados, ew
- a Beartic that's Rash even though it has no physical moves
- a Salamence that's Naughty even though it's literally holding a Yache Berry
- numerous Pokemon that aren't running mixed sets being Naive or Hasty instead of Timid or Jolly like you'd expect
- a Careful Luxray that only knows Special moves
- Gentle and Lax Pokemon in general; even the very notion is repellent
*Note that Emerald splits its Frontier pools into three groups which can be broadly thought of as bottom, middle, and top; the Subway has two broad pools, basically just Super and non-Super.
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So...Toxtricity.
I've been looking into it for quite a bit lately, because in hindsight, it's an incredibly strange Pokemon.
Namely, it's bizarre in that looking at the whole picture, it has all the hallmarks of a designated "shillmon". Toxel is a baby Pokemon that evolves at Level 30 into Toxtricity, sharing traits with Lucario and Zoroark's lines: Toxel being a designated "Baby Pokemon" like Riolu, and evolving at Level 30 like Zorua. And it's also in the Medium Slow group, which it shares with both of them. It also has the same catch rate progression of 75->45. Toxtricity has a standout design, with two forms with likable flavor differences and personality, and it even has a Gigantamax Form! And Toxtricity's G-Max Form was very elusive: unlike other Gen 8 Pokemon who had them, it wasn't the ace of anyone, and it was also distinct in that in base SwSh, it was flat out impossible to obtain G-Max Toxtricity by normal means. And not only that, a Toxel was given to you as a gift! It was a lot like Riolu and Zorua in DPP and BW 1/2, respectively in that regard.
And yet despite all that...Toxtricity never really got any marketing exposure. At all. Lucario and Zoroark both had movies preceding their debut generations' releases, designating them as the poster mascots of Gen 4 and Gen 5, respectively. They were both given special treatment in their debut games as a special Pokemon. And they get plenty of exposure in other media: Zoroark less so, but Lucario is practically one of the pseudo-mascots of Pokemon and a staple of spin-off media, and both of them have been treated to special gimmicks in generations after their debut: Lucario got a Mega Evolution in XY and was the poster child of the mechanic alongside the Kanto starters, meanwhile Zoroark got a Hisuian Form in PLA, and much like Zoroark itself, naturally skyrocketed into popularity being one of the most popular regional forms to date and being a poster mascot of PLA itself in a way.
Toxtricity has so much in common with them that you'd think it would've gotten similar treatment and yet...it didn't. It wasn't shown at all before release, it barely got any exposure in the anime during the entirety of Journeys, and it's non-existent in spinoff media. So why?
Well I found this article, and it highlights a lot of interesting things about Toxtricity.
https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2021/02/08/toxtricitys-missing-lore/
If you read it, it raises plenty of interesting points, but to put it bluntly, looking at the whole picture, it feels like Toxtricity was originally intended to be a heavily marketed Pokemon, and was supposed to be the poster mascot of Gen 8 and Galar, with a major story role in SwSh, but then got pushed to the side after its original role in SwSh's story was scrapped, and its shillmon status thrown away with it.
The hints, in addition to what I said, line up with this quite nicely.
Toxtricity's existence was incidentally first hinted at in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. In USUM, a picture of what is seemingly G-Max Toxtricity in Game Freak's office, making Toxtricity the first Gen 8 Pokemon whose existence was hinted at and the first to hint at the Dynamax/Gigantamax mechanic's existence at all.
Toxtricity was also hinted at as a relevant part of SwSh's story early on. The geoglyph in Turffield, which you can see in the images above, references G-Max Toxtricity. In Hulbury, there's statues of Toxtricity there.
And finally, the Route 7 bridge. The place of the infamous "Tell, Don't Show" scene of SwSh's story that ended up being the most pathetic example of SwSh's rushed development and poorly implemented story. That place where you're told that Leon beat a rampaging Dynamax Pokemon but you don't see it.
It's clear that the canyon in that bridge, with this datamine, was originally going to have a rampaging G-Max Toxtricity from the result of Rose's experiments nearby in Hammerlocke! And not only that, you would see it rampaging and also engage it in a Dynamax battle to calm it down! Aka do it yourself. Maybe alongside Hop and Leon as your teammates, as a mini-boss between Piers and Raihan. And then because of lack of time or whatever reason, this was scrapped entirely. But the traces are still there, and further evidence is reinforced in the final game, as Route 7 is home to wild Toxel.
It all lines up. Toxtricity was going to be a much bigger deal than it actually ended up being, and have a major role in SwSh's story as a boss fight leading into the Darkest Day plot, and be the buildup of Rose's ultimate plan.
And the buildup was all there. You see a geoglyph of the Darkest Day on the hill in Turffield showing G-Max Toxtricity, on Route 5 immediately afterwards you're given a baby Toxel as a gift, highlighting it as special, then in Hulbury near the lighthouse you see statues of Toxtricity. Then on Route 7 there are many wild Toxel, and finally just before Raihan you see a rampaging Gigantamax Toxtricity that you have to beat.
And yet this was all scrapped, those buildup points are still there but don't amount to anything as the geoglyph is never mentioned again, and Toxel doesn't really get much spotlight at all.
Seems Game Freak then decided to just not do anything with Toxtricity after this, and its shillmon status ended up going to Cinderace instead, who ended the designated winner starter of Galar's trio. Cinderace got two signature moves, ended up with prominent representation in the anime as Goh's starter (despite his lukewarm reception) and also got prominent representation in spinoffs like Unite, had its Gigantamax Form shown off by Leon in the climactic Ash vs Leon battle of the anime, and was the first Galar starter to get a 7 star Raid in SV. And so on.
Meanwhile Toxtricity just got thrown away, after its original role in SwSh was scrapped, and its marketable status thrown out the door as well.
A case of an intended "shillmon" who never actually came to fruition in terms of its original intended role and stardom.
I've been looking into it for quite a bit lately, because in hindsight, it's an incredibly strange Pokemon.
Namely, it's bizarre in that looking at the whole picture, it has all the hallmarks of a designated "shillmon". Toxel is a baby Pokemon that evolves at Level 30 into Toxtricity, sharing traits with Lucario and Zoroark's lines: Toxel being a designated "Baby Pokemon" like Riolu, and evolving at Level 30 like Zorua. And it's also in the Medium Slow group, which it shares with both of them. It also has the same catch rate progression of 75->45. Toxtricity has a standout design, with two forms with likable flavor differences and personality, and it even has a Gigantamax Form! And Toxtricity's G-Max Form was very elusive: unlike other Gen 8 Pokemon who had them, it wasn't the ace of anyone, and it was also distinct in that in base SwSh, it was flat out impossible to obtain G-Max Toxtricity by normal means. And not only that, a Toxel was given to you as a gift! It was a lot like Riolu and Zorua in DPP and BW 1/2, respectively in that regard.
And yet despite all that...Toxtricity never really got any marketing exposure. At all. Lucario and Zoroark both had movies preceding their debut generations' releases, designating them as the poster mascots of Gen 4 and Gen 5, respectively. They were both given special treatment in their debut games as a special Pokemon. And they get plenty of exposure in other media: Zoroark less so, but Lucario is practically one of the pseudo-mascots of Pokemon and a staple of spin-off media, and both of them have been treated to special gimmicks in generations after their debut: Lucario got a Mega Evolution in XY and was the poster child of the mechanic alongside the Kanto starters, meanwhile Zoroark got a Hisuian Form in PLA, and much like Zoroark itself, naturally skyrocketed into popularity being one of the most popular regional forms to date and being a poster mascot of PLA itself in a way.
Toxtricity has so much in common with them that you'd think it would've gotten similar treatment and yet...it didn't. It wasn't shown at all before release, it barely got any exposure in the anime during the entirety of Journeys, and it's non-existent in spinoff media. So why?
Well I found this article, and it highlights a lot of interesting things about Toxtricity.
https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2021/02/08/toxtricitys-missing-lore/
If you read it, it raises plenty of interesting points, but to put it bluntly, looking at the whole picture, it feels like Toxtricity was originally intended to be a heavily marketed Pokemon, and was supposed to be the poster mascot of Gen 8 and Galar, with a major story role in SwSh, but then got pushed to the side after its original role in SwSh's story was scrapped, and its shillmon status thrown away with it.
The hints, in addition to what I said, line up with this quite nicely.
Toxtricity's existence was incidentally first hinted at in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. In USUM, a picture of what is seemingly G-Max Toxtricity in Game Freak's office, making Toxtricity the first Gen 8 Pokemon whose existence was hinted at and the first to hint at the Dynamax/Gigantamax mechanic's existence at all.
Toxtricity was also hinted at as a relevant part of SwSh's story early on. The geoglyph in Turffield, which you can see in the images above, references G-Max Toxtricity. In Hulbury, there's statues of Toxtricity there.
And finally, the Route 7 bridge. The place of the infamous "Tell, Don't Show" scene of SwSh's story that ended up being the most pathetic example of SwSh's rushed development and poorly implemented story. That place where you're told that Leon beat a rampaging Dynamax Pokemon but you don't see it.
It's clear that the canyon in that bridge, with this datamine, was originally going to have a rampaging G-Max Toxtricity from the result of Rose's experiments nearby in Hammerlocke! And not only that, you would see it rampaging and also engage it in a Dynamax battle to calm it down! Aka do it yourself. Maybe alongside Hop and Leon as your teammates, as a mini-boss between Piers and Raihan. And then because of lack of time or whatever reason, this was scrapped entirely. But the traces are still there, and further evidence is reinforced in the final game, as Route 7 is home to wild Toxel.
It all lines up. Toxtricity was going to be a much bigger deal than it actually ended up being, and have a major role in SwSh's story as a boss fight leading into the Darkest Day plot, and be the buildup of Rose's ultimate plan.
And the buildup was all there. You see a geoglyph of the Darkest Day on the hill in Turffield showing G-Max Toxtricity, on Route 5 immediately afterwards you're given a baby Toxel as a gift, highlighting it as special, then in Hulbury near the lighthouse you see statues of Toxtricity. Then on Route 7 there are many wild Toxel, and finally just before Raihan you see a rampaging Gigantamax Toxtricity that you have to beat.
And yet this was all scrapped, those buildup points are still there but don't amount to anything as the geoglyph is never mentioned again, and Toxel doesn't really get much spotlight at all.
Seems Game Freak then decided to just not do anything with Toxtricity after this, and its shillmon status ended up going to Cinderace instead, who ended the designated winner starter of Galar's trio. Cinderace got two signature moves, ended up with prominent representation in the anime as Goh's starter (despite his lukewarm reception) and also got prominent representation in spinoffs like Unite, had its Gigantamax Form shown off by Leon in the climactic Ash vs Leon battle of the anime, and was the first Galar starter to get a 7 star Raid in SV. And so on.
Meanwhile Toxtricity just got thrown away, after its original role in SwSh was scrapped, and its marketable status thrown out the door as well.
A case of an intended "shillmon" who never actually came to fruition in terms of its original intended role and stardom.
So...Toxtricity.
I've been looking into it for quite a bit lately, because in hindsight, it's an incredibly strange Pokemon.
Namely, it's bizarre in that looking at the whole picture, it has all the hallmarks of a designated "shillmon". Toxel is a baby Pokemon that evolves at Level 30 into Toxtricity, sharing traits with Lucario and Zoroark's lines: Toxel being a designated "Baby Pokemon" like Riolu, and evolving at Level 30 like Zorua. And it's also in the Medium Slow group, which it shares with both of them. It also has the same catch rate progression of 75->45. Toxtricity has a standout design, with two forms with likable flavor differences and personality, and it even has a Gigantamax Form! And Toxtricity's G-Max Form was very elusive: unlike other Gen 8 Pokemon who had them, it wasn't the ace of anyone, and it was also distinct in that in base SwSh, it was flat out impossible to obtain G-Max Toxtricity by normal means. And not only that, a Toxel was given to you as a gift! It was a lot like Riolu and Zorua in DPP and BW 1/2, respectively in that regard.
And yet despite all that...Toxtricity never really got any marketing exposure. At all. Lucario and Zoroark both had movies preceding their debut generations' releases, designating them as the poster mascots of Gen 4 and Gen 5, respectively. They were both given special treatment in their debut games as a special Pokemon. And they get plenty of exposure in other media: Zoroark less so, but Lucario is practically one of the pseudo-mascots of Pokemon and a staple of spin-off media, and both of them have been treated to special gimmicks in generations after their debut: Lucario got a Mega Evolution in XY and was the poster child of the mechanic alongside the Kanto starters, meanwhile Zoroark got a Hisuian Form in PLA, and much like Zoroark itself, naturally skyrocketed into popularity being one of the most popular regional forms to date and being a poster mascot of PLA itself in a way.
Toxtricity has so much in common with them that you'd think it would've gotten similar treatment and yet...it didn't. It wasn't shown at all before release, it barely got any exposure in the anime during the entirety of Journeys, and it's non-existent in spinoff media. So why?
Well I found this article, and it highlights a lot of interesting things about Toxtricity.
https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2021/02/08/toxtricitys-missing-lore/
If you read it, it raises plenty of interesting points, but to put it bluntly, looking at the whole picture, it feels like Toxtricity was originally intended to be a heavily marketed Pokemon, and was supposed to be the poster mascot of Gen 8 and Galar, with a major story role in SwSh, but then got pushed to the side after its original role in SwSh's story was scrapped, and its shillmon status thrown away with it.
The hints, in addition to what I said, line up with this quite nicely.
Toxtricity's existence was incidentally first hinted at in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. In USUM, a picture of what is seemingly G-Max Toxtricity in Game Freak's office, making Toxtricity the first Gen 8 Pokemon whose existence was hinted at and the first to hint at the Dynamax/Gigantamax mechanic's existence at all.
Toxtricity was also hinted at as a relevant part of SwSh's story early on. The geoglyph in Turffield, which you can see in the images above, references G-Max Toxtricity. In Hulbury, there's statues of Toxtricity there.
And finally, the Route 7 bridge. The place of the infamous "Tell, Don't Show" scene of SwSh's story that ended up being the most pathetic example of SwSh's rushed development and poorly implemented story. That place where you're told that Leon beat a rampaging Dynamax Pokemon but you don't see it.
It's clear that the canyon in that bridge, with this datamine, was originally going to have a rampaging G-Max Toxtricity from the result of Rose's experiments nearby in Hammerlocke! And not only that, you would see it rampaging and also engage it in a Dynamax battle to calm it down! Aka do it yourself. Maybe alongside Hop and Leon as your teammates, as a mini-boss between Piers and Raihan. And then because of lack of time or whatever reason, this was scrapped entirely. But the traces are still there, and further evidence is reinforced in the final game, as Route 7 is home to wild Toxel.
It all lines up. Toxtricity was going to be a much bigger deal than it actually ended up being, and have a major role in SwSh's story as a boss fight leading into the Darkest Day plot, and be the buildup of Rose's ultimate plan.
And the buildup was all there. You see a geoglyph of the Darkest Day on the hill in Turffield showing G-Max Toxtricity, on Route 5 immediately afterwards you're given a baby Toxel as a gift, highlighting it as special, then in Hulbury near the lighthouse you see statues of Toxtricity. Then on Route 7 there are many wild Toxel, and finally just before Raihan you see a rampaging Gigantamax Toxtricity that you have to beat.
And yet this was all scrapped, those buildup points are still there but don't amount to anything as the geoglyph is never mentioned again, and Toxel doesn't really get much spotlight at all.
Seems Game Freak then decided to just not do anything with Toxtricity after this, and its shillmon status ended up going to Cinderace instead, who ended the designated winner starter of Galar's trio. Cinderace got two signature moves, ended up with prominent representation in the anime as Goh's starter (despite his lukewarm reception) and also got prominent representation in spinoffs like Unite, had its Gigantamax Form shown off by Leon in the climactic Ash vs Leon battle of the anime, and was the first Galar starter to get a 7 star Raid in SV. And so on.
Meanwhile Toxtricity just got thrown away, after its original role in SwSh was scrapped, and its marketable status thrown out the door as well.
A case of an intended "shillmon" who never actually came to fruition in terms of its original intended role and stardom.
Still ended up being my favourite Gen 8 mon.
Hm, not thrown away, at least not entirely. If any of this is true, while it's significance was certainly toned down, it still has some presence.
Both an Amped and Low Key Toxtricity are members of the Maximizers who are best known for playing for everyone in Wyndon Stadium during the credits. Infact, to see the credits again you need to find them by the Toxtrcity statues in Hulbury.
In the Pokemon Special/Adventure manga, Casey (the manga's counterpart to Gloria) had a Low Key Toxtricity named Tera as a member of her team that could Gigantamax.
Finally in SV, Ryme uses a Low Key Toxtricity as her Tera Pokemon.
And...
As well as one of mine. And of many. Anyone remember the 2020 Pokemon Popularity Poll? Toxtricity was #14 with 55k votes. Of the Galarian Pokemon it was #2, beaten by Dragapult by 2k votes.
Also, let's assume all of this is true and was in the final game... I still don't think it'll amount to much. Infact, from how I see it, the build-up would just be for the Gigantamax Toxtricity Raid at the bridge. And after you defeat it, that's it, hoped you like the set piece as it'll never be mentioned again. It'll be no different than, say, Marowak's Ghost in Gen I; cool set piece, but not like Cubone/Marowak ever became super popular Pokemon because of it.
Aside from being rushed, I'll assume GF also removed the bridge battle for this reason, it didn't amount to much aside from a cool set piece which they didn't have time to finish. Now it was interesting that in the news report it showed the Gigantamax Pokemon was a Purrserker, maybe they changed it from Toxtricity to hint toward Rose's connection (not that you would know as you don't learn Rose was a Steel-type specialist until you battle him).
NEW MYSTERY:
So, I'm watching Chuggaaconroy's BW2 playthrough when he gets to the part where you fly to Lentimas Town.
So, we flew to Lentimas Town from Mistralton City in order to go to Opelucid City. MAP!
Hey, Juniper, Skyla, I think we overshot it.
AND don't give me a "well Opelucid City doesn't have a landing strip". It's a major city, just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't have one.
They wrote themselves into a corner, wanting the player to travel to the other side of Unova as a new path in BW2. I will say the excuse with going to talk with Drayden isn't a bad one, but they chose the wrong location. Instead of asking the player to go to Opelucid City, have Juniper message Drayden about her concerns and have him request they meet up in Lacunosa Town where he feels the answer is. Now it makes sense why you flew straight past Opelucid City and to Lentimas Town, it's much more believable that Lacunosa Town wouldn't have a landing strip so you had to fly to the closest one which just so happened to be in Lentimas Town.
It's easy enough to get the story back on track. You meet Drayden in Lacunosa Town where he had retrieved something. You introduce yourself as the trainer Juniper sent when Hugh suddenly runs past both of you. You follow Hugh and encounter Team Plasma and Zinzolin. Zinzolin notices Drayden and demands he hands over what they've been searching for. Hugh interrupts and you and him battle Zinzolin and the Plasma Grunt while Drayden runs back to Opelucid Gym. From there the story pretty much gets back on track with you & Hugh defeating Zinzolin but their interest is with Drayden and his package (which of course are the DNA Slicers which were hidden in Lacunosa Town long ago as it was fortified against "the hungry monster"). They leave to get the Plasma Frigate, Hugh tells the player to go check on Drayden while he chases after Team Plasma.
I would say that, because I’ve always thought, could Juniper not just… call Drayden? Send him an email? Why does she have to send someone to physically trek all the way to Opelucid and then relay that information back to her?
If spoken to again in Lentimas Town, Juniper says "Drayden is a Gym Leader, so unless you defeat him in a Pokémon battle, he probably won't talk to you."
So I think the case can be made that sending you via Lentimas serves a dual purpose: you're not strong enough at that point to defeat Drayden, so taking the long route there will make you stronger, which is ultimately as much in Juniper's interest as it is yours - she can't stop Team Plasma on her own. And while she could get him to just talk to her, it's better for the player to hear it firsthand because that will also be good for their development as a trainer.
It's not as if all is lost if the player doesn't manage it, after all. Cheren and Iris and Hugh are all on hand to help with the situation, as is Drayden himself.
So I think the case can be made that sending you via Lentimas serves a dual purpose: you're not strong enough at that point to defeat Drayden, so taking the long route there will make you stronger, which is ultimately as much in Juniper's interest as it is yours - she can't stop Team Plasma on her own. And while she could get him to just talk to her, it's better for the player to hear it firsthand because that will also be good for their development as a trainer.
It's not as if all is lost if the player doesn't manage it, after all. Cheren and Iris and Hugh are all on hand to help with the situation, as is Drayden himself.
Drayden is a boomer who doesn't answer his phone or check his emails