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Other Tier National Dex AG

Bobsican

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Community Leader
Approved by bumboclaat, Smudge, and Bobsican :liepard:
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:koraidon::machamp::gengar-mega::rayquaza-mega::shedinja::liepard:Art made by sleepyzen :pawmot::xerneas::necrozma-ultra::calyrex-shadow::machoke::miraidon:​

Welcome to the long-mixed revival of one of the most inclusive metas possible in Smogon dot com! As the name implies, National Dex Anything Goes (NDAG for short) takes the baseline ruleset of NatDex and removes as many tiering bans as technically possible! Legality, NatDex identity limitations, and Endless Battle Clause still apply.

Requests to ban stuff are part of the reason NatDex Ubers exists, so please go there for a less centralized middle-ground.

Resources: Gen 8 DLC1, Gen 8 DLC2, Gen 9

Council
Bobsican (Leader)
entrocefalo
Bread Sandwich
Zrp200

FAQ
Does this have a Discord server?

Afraid not, given its semi-niche nature at the moment, but it is still a welcome topic in the main NatDex server and the NDAM server. The ND Other Tiers room in PS is also a good place to find room tours and discussion for this kind of metagames.

Why can't Dynamax be used in SV?
Besides coding limitations, implementing Dynamax doesn't adhere to National Dex's identity, meaning that NDAG's premise can't override this, you may still consider Gen 8 NDAG formats for this purpose, however.

Can a global regional gimmick (Dynamax in Gen 8, Terastallization in Gen 9), Mega Evolution, and Z-Moves be on the same team?
Yes, however, any one Pokemon has access to one of these mechanics at a time. Furthermore, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves take priority over Dynamax/Terastal. For example, Mewtwo holding Mewtwonite Y cannot Dynamax/Terastallize. Necrozma-DM holding Solgalium Z cannot Dynamax/Terastallize either. Pokemon that trigger Primal Reversion (Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre) can't Dynamax/Terastallize either.

How may Rayquaza Dynamax/Terastallize?
For the purposes of this tier, Rayquaza may Dynamax (Gen 8) or Terastallize (Gen 9) if it doesn't hold a Z-Crystal and doesn't know Dragon Ascent (it'll only be able to Mega Evolve or use a Z-Move (if it knows a compatible move) otherwise). Note that this isn't competitively recommended as there's far better users of either regional gimmick outside of glorified bluff sets.

Any plans for a permaladder?
National Dex AG is a shell of its former self community-wise for a variety of reasons, so the expected activity of an indefinitely-lasting ladder without cannibalizing similar and more popular formats (most notably ND Ubers) is quite unlikely. However, the most popular variant (Gen 8 DLC1) is still a potential candidate to vote for in the monthly spotlight ladder proyect.

What is "DLC1" and "DLC2"?
D
ownloadable Content 1 and Downloadable Content 2. This separation is made specifically over Gen 8 NDAG as to refer to The Isle of Armor (DLC1) and The Crown Tundra (DLC2), which expanded multiple Pokemon learnsets (for the purposes of a ND format) and added some species over the base Sword and Shield games.
DLC2's polarizing addition of :calyrex-shadow:Calyrex-S in particular has shifted the metagame to the point that DLC1 and DLC2 have separate userbases (not unlike Farceus and Fullceus in Gen 4 Ubers), especially as the regular AG community stopped treating NDAG as its flagship format at around the same time, with DLC1 nowadays being the main format by having more popularity and historical support.

What are the main movepool additions in Gen 8 DLC2?
:groudon-primal:Primal Groudon gains Heat Crash
:rayquaza-mega:Mega Rayquaza gains Scale Shot
:xerneas:Xerneas gains Play Rough

Why can Assist call Revival Blessing in SV?
Scarlet and Violet have an internal flag that technically enables this interaction, and as explained there it's ultimately a part of NatDex's identity to abide to in-cart semantics when possible, so this is ultimately the state of things as NDAG's premise can't override this, given that it's not a tiering decision to begin with.
 
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Gen 8 DLC1 (Isle of Armor)

Challenge code
:

/challenge gen8dlc1nationaldexag

Sample teams:

:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Dark::Arceus-Ground::Lugia::Zacian-Crowned::Chansey: - PSong Arc + SD Zac-C Balance by Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Ground::Arceus-Fairy::Arceus-Water::zacian-crowned::rayquaza-mega: - DD M-Ray BO by baconeatinassassin
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Dark::Arceus-Fairy::xerneas::zacian-crowned::rayquaza-mega: - SD Zac-C + Xern BO by Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Dark::Arceus-Water::xerneas::kyogre-primal::rayquaza-mega: - M-Ray + POgre + Xern BO by Nevelle
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Dark::Arceus-Fairy::ferrothorn::zacian-crowned::rayquaza-mega: - M-Ray Hazard Stack BO by arifgoku and Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Dark::Arceus-Fairy::kyogre::giratina::rayquaza-mega: - CM LO Kyogre Balance by Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Water::Arceus-Fairy::yveltal::zacian-crowned::zygarde: - Coil Zyg + Yveltal Balance by Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Ghost::smeargle::xerneas::groudon-primal::rayquaza-mega: - Arc-Ghost Webs by Guard and Icemaster
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Water::eternatus::tyranitar::groudon-primal::ho-oh: - Etern + SD PDon Balance by Lana
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Ground::kyogre::tyranitar::groudon-primal::rayquaza-mega: - Sunday by Chloe (RMT)
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Arceus-Water::Arceus-Fairy::gengar-mega::ditto::chansey: - M-Gengar + Ditto Balance by Lana

Other resources:

- SmogDex

- Viability Rankings
  • Nominations without context or supporting evidence will be ignored. Providing replays and usage stats are excellent ways to display your nominated PokĂ©mon in action; although, this is not required and should not be the basis of your argument.
  • Be civil when debating with other users. Nothing makes an argument seem more subjective than when insults and name-calling occurs instead of actual debate on the topic at hand. Posts that take this to the extreme will be deleted.
  • Ensure any replays provided are against skilled opponents with actual teams. If your opponent has a Cosmic Power Rock Polish Solrock, this is a clear indication that this is not the case.
S Rank

S


:zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned
:rayquaza-mega:Rayquaza-Mega
:necrozma-dusk-mane:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

A Rank

A+


:yveltal: Yveltal
:xerneas: Xerneas
:groudon-primal: Groudon-Primal
:zygarde: Zygarde

A

:arceus-water: Arceus-Water
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:Arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark
:kyogre:Kyogre
:arceus-ground: Arceus-Ground
:eternatus: Eternatus


A-

:Arceus-fairy: Arceus-Fairy
:arceus: Arceus
:ditto: Ditto
:kyogre-primal: Kyogre-Primal

The Pokemon in the sub-ranks below are ordered alphabetically.

B Rank

B+


:Arceus-ghost: Arceus-Ghost
:chansey: Chansey
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega
:giratina: Giratina
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:lugia: Lugia
:mewtwo-mega-y: Mewtwo-Mega-Y
:smeargle: Smeargle

B

:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-Speed
:lunala: Lunala
:marshadow: Marshadow
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:necrozma-ultra: Necrozma-Ultra
:sableye-mega: Sableye-Mega
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:tyranitar-mega: Tyranitar-Mega
:zekrom: Zekrom


B-

:arceus-poison: Arceus-Poison
:arceus-steel: Arceus-Steel

C Rank

C

:gliscor:
Gliscor
:groudon:Groudon
:MAGEARNA: Magearna
:quagsire: Quagsire

D Rank

D

:amoonguss:
Amoonguss
:arceus-electric: Arceus-Electric
:Arceus-rock: Arceus-Rock
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:diancie-mega: Diancie-Mega
:diancie: Diancie
:excadrill: Excadrill
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:shedinja: Shedinja
:toxapex: Toxapex
:vivillon: Vivillon

- Gen 8-era Archives
 
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Gen 8 DLC2 (Crown Tundra)

Challenge code
:

/challenge gen8nationaldex @@@ !Dynamax Clause, !Evasion Clause, !Nickname Clause, !OHKO Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, !Species Clause, +ND Uber, +Moody, +Arena Trap, +Power Construct, +Shadow Tag, +King's Rock, +Razor Fang, +Quick Claw, +Baton Pass, +NDAG

Sample teams:

:deoxys-speed::necrozma-ultra::yveltal::arceus-ground::kyogre::calyrex-shadow: - Deo-S Lead HO by Kate and Will
:zygarde::necrozma-dusk-mane::arceus-dark::arceus-steel::kyogre::calyrex-shadow: - Double CM Balance by lotiasite
:groudon-primal::necrozma-dusk-mane::arceus-dark::arceus-water::yveltal::ditto: - Perish Arc + LO Yveltal by Kate
:zacian-crowned::necrozma-dusk-mane::arceus-dark::arceus-water::arceus::eternatus: - Zacian-C + TS Etern by Will
:marshadow::necrozma-dusk-mane::arceus-steel::arceus-water::yveltal::eternatus: - Shuca TS Etern + CM Steel by Kate
:marshadow::necrozma-dusk-mane::arceus-fairy::blissey::yveltal::zygarde: - Blissey SemiStall by GlalieGoesBoom (RMT)

Gen 8-era metagame thread (archived)
 
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Please welcome entrocefalo to the council!

To keep this from being a one-liner and spark some general discussion, I'd want to point out some meta trends so far:

:sv/machamp::sv/machoke:
No Guard + Fissure is broken, and in a way has helped to make Trick Room teams from a fishy structure to something that can shred teams if neglected. In spite of the lack of Species Clause, it's also commonly seen with Machoke instead of another Machamp as the boost in bulk in Eviolite complements against more offensive structures, in a way making a potent offensive core.

:sv/liepard:
The cats are so overprepared for to the point that there's a mind-game in teambuilding, teams can elect to ignore this matchup for a legitimate team slot for basically any other matchup, or do account for this matchup and are weaker to the rest of the metagame. So far, Galarian Weezing seems to be the most consistent answer for ReviveCats that doesn't actively hinder the team for other scenarios, for example a Regen core + entry hazards won't work as a win condition unless there's no hazard removal at all (as to prevent Ditto from removing them).

:sv/miraidon:
Miraidon is the better bike as stopping sleep in a meta with no Sleep Clause is valuable, beyond that it's practically impossible to wall with +1 Z-Draco Meteor, thus letting it afford a pivoting move as it has little else to do.

:sv/shedinja:
Tera Ground + Boots, Tera Electric + Air Balloon, and Ability Shield Shedinja all demand different answers, and in the best case scenario the dedicated checks are weak to being trapped, creating a formidable core that should be more of a blatant aspect of the meta than ReviveCats.

:sv/chien-pao:
Chien-Pao is a somewhat underexplored option, not only does it fill offensive roles efficiently, its typing lets it threaten ReviveCat structures, which is complemented by its access to Ice Spinner preventing Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain from stopping an Ice Shard sweep, but it needs to be careful around Ditto in any case like every other setup sweeper answer.

So far, the metagame has turned into a matter of outsmarting the opponent not only on meta trends, but on what they decide to use as the opportunity cost at answering some threats can make or break the entire game plan, I wonder what others think.
 
:sv/terapagos-terastal:

Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shell
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Tera Starstorm
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse / Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Roar

Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots or Chesto Berry
Ability: Tera Shell
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind / Toxic
- Tera Starstorm
- Rapid Spin / Rest
- Dark Pulse

For SV NDAG, Terapagos seems like a pretty decent Pokemon. With Tera Stellar and its Normal-typing, its one of the best Shedinja answers, only being weak to Toxic. Even if Shedinja uses Baton Pass into Mega Gengar to try SubDisable it to death, Terapagos can just load Dark Pulse, which additionally turns it into a decent Calyrex-S answer too. Alongside that, its regular SV (ND)Ubers niche of Tera Shell + Roar is great against Mega Rayquaza, Koraidon, and Zacian-C. Roar and Stealth Rock is also neat for Revivecats matchup, especially if paired with Spikes and a Ghost-type of some sort. There are also Calm Mind + RestoChesto sets that are probably usable for a better Smeargle HO matchup.
 
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Roar
- Crunch
- Sleep Talk / Taunt

(gen 9) Mega Gyara has already seen play as a dragon dancer on HO teams, but it can also provide a solid niche as a beastly role compression mon, serving as a caly shadow check, shedinja answer, and baton pass patch. Can't be cheesed by gengar by virtue of having both an ohko button and roar, seems overall solid on balance structures.
 
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