Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Moyashi]

This is just not the case and I can’t tell if it’s just ignorance/misinformed

If you’re going to accuse someone of this-

also intel tells me kyurem fell of in svou

Maybe don’t make claims that are the same “ignorance” you accuse others of. Kyurem has been on a tear and been very successful in current SV OU. It never “fell off”.

the tier is probably fishy now than before lol with shit like ghost z ceruledge getting real usage or polteageist. I just think the whole thing about Garg is kinda irrelevant given that Garg wasn’t even used that much and that even if someone mu fished with something like sub crown for example it’s easily outplayed as shown in the replay above.

People exploring new ideas like “Z Poltergeist Ceruledge” is considered fishy to you? Also your replay showed a mid ladder game of an opponent who made several strange plays, like switching out an effectively dead ZardX instead of giving it up to get Iron Crown in afterwards, which would’ve realistically just won btw if it had been Stored Power. Their Tera timing also hurt them.

past surveys are irrelevant given the new advancements with these pokemon like running hp rock volcarona or even steel z Ghold/modest Ghold. There’s a reason they’re on the survey and that’s because they’re being complained about quite a bit lol for good reason.

HP Rock Volc just shows the point, it can never fit enough coverage for everything it wants to hit. It’s threatening as hell, but tech sets like that give up a lot and won’t do nearly as much if the match up they’re for doesn’t show up.

Surveys are relevant even if they’re past. Modest does not move the needle on Ghold nearly as much as you think, and as Toxic pointed out has trade offs and issues of its own. You can deny those issues but they don’t just go away.

Surveys include the most relevant and talked about Pokémon. It doesn’t automatically mean something is a problem. Kingambit was included on surveys for a while despite clearly not being an issue post Tera.

Toxic already went over Modest Ghold and why they feel it’s exaggerated, and I don’t feel it’s necessary to repeat what they said since I agree.

i was referencing tech in terms of Pokémon not just sets of different already viable Pokémon to lure, it’s not possible to bring anything out of the norm without your team just getting blown out of the water by some threat due to how restricting building is rn having to prep for ghost/steel z Ghold, z Volc, pon, znite, ect. Defensive Tera helped give outs or blankets for things like this but now it’s just not possible and building becomes repetitive and robotic.

not sure why dnite is even on this list since it isn’t restrictive at all, or hard to prep for.

Wellspring… I don’t like being petty cuz it’s dumb but I’ll give in just a bit and say “that ship sailed and we have to live with it”. Even as the world’s biggest Pon hater, I can’t say it has no counterplay, and tools like Dragonite, Zamazenta, Mega Scizor and Tornadus T exist to check it. Hell physdef Glowking is a decent soft check that has useful value elsewhere like checking Gliscor and scarf Shifu, Mega Lop and handling most Iron Valiants.

I’m not saying there’s no restrictions, I’m not saying it’s perfect (literally said so at the beginning) but I find the degree of such to be exaggerated.

Thanks John NatDex I wish in ndpl I had your PHD in nat dex to put to good use for building these perfect teams that have no weaknesses instead of the metagame discussion thread

Cut it with the snark and strawman comments please. I never said anything about building perfect teams or that it was easy. Your entitled to not like the current metagame, but coming around and pushing your views as a matter-of-fact statement and dismissing opposing views just isn’t doing anything for discussion.

yea bro I love my kyurem getting assaulted by alom, slowbro and all the other defensive water type threats in the tier on the other hand kyurem with hp fire doesn’t have as much counterplay and was much more successful in this meta than Tera fire tb was in that meta by a long shot lol

My point is that it does nothing for the offense match up at all, whereas Tera blast helps in both defense and offense. It’s also wild to make claims about “much more successful” given small sample sizes as HP fire is a recent innovation while TB was from an old meta a long time ago. It’s a legitimate set but let’s not exaggerate how good it is. It comes with trade offs.

i recall tier leaders/council members saying the only reason it would be banned is because of z splash

I never heard or saw anything about this, so I’m assuming this was on discord which I don’t go to. Regardless it’s still pointless to include a Mon not ever tested based on a theory instead of practice.

Anyways I’ll leave it there for now because I don’t want to clog up the forum with back and forth between two people and I’ll just say this: I don’t really agree with your stance on how poor the tier is, but I respect your opinion and I do hope that what issues the tier does have can be handled with time.