Ubers UU National Dex Ubers UU

[Runo]

Stole this from the NDUbers OP

National Dex
Ubers UU​

Welcome to the very first edition of National Dex Ubers UU! Just as the name suggests, this is to be an Ubers UU-based metagame in a National Dex environment; every Pokemon is available for use alongside their full movepool. Cut items, moves, and mechanics originating from generations 7 and 8 will be made available as well, with the exception of Dynamax. For information regarding any intricacies concerning National Dex mechanics, please consult this thread [Gen 8 version]. National Dex forum rules are in effect; please give them a look-over here.

Clauses & Banlist

Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Sleep Clause Mod, Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Items Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Mega Rayquaza Clause

• Ubers OU:
  • Arceus
  • Arceus-Dark
  • Arceus-Fairy
  • Arceus-Ground
  • Calyrex-Ice
  • Chansey
  • Deoxys-Attack
  • Ditto
  • Dondozo
  • Eternatus
  • Giratina-Orgin
  • Glimmora
  • Groudon-Primal
  • Ho-Oh
  • Kyogre-Primal
  • Marshadow
  • Melmetal
  • Mewtwo-Mega-Y
  • Lunala
  • Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
  • Rayquaza
  • Salamence-Mega
  • Smeargle
  • Necrozma-Ultra
  • Yveltal
  • Zacian-Crowned
  • Zygarde
  • + Moves/Abilities/Clauses in Ubers OU
• 
  Ubers UUBL:
  • Arceus-Ghost
  • Arceus-Water
  • Blaziken-Mega
  • Chi-Yu
  • Flutter Mane
  • Kyogre
  • Kyurem-Black
  • Shaymin-Sky
  • Zacian
  • Zekrom
  • Power Construct
  • Last Respects
  • Light Clay
  • Ultranecrozium Z

Council

• Runo (Leader)
• Xurkiyee
• Zrp200

Watchlist:

• Pokemon: Blastoise-Mega, Groudon
• Items: None
• Moves: None
• Mechanics: Psychic Terrain, Sun

Resources

Viability Rankings
Sample Teams (below temporarily)
Teambuilding Compendium
Speed Tiers
Good Cores

Q&A

Does this have a Discord server?
Yes, join here!

Why is Dynamax not allowed?
Impementing Dynamax doesn't adhere to National Dex's identity.

Can I use Terastal, Mega Evolution, and Z-Moves on the same team?
Yes, however, any one Pokemon has access to one of these mechanics. Furthermore, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves take priority over Terastal. For example, Mewtwo holding Mewtwonite Y cannot Terastallize. Necrozma-DM holding Solgalium Z cannot Terastallize either.

 

[Runo]

Sample Teams

https://pokepast.es/8ffbadce638cb364 Mega Blastoise Psyspam HO by Dahness and Zrp200

 

[Runo]

National Dex Ubers UU Viability List

Top
Groudon
Magearna

High
Alomomola
Arceus-Dragon
Arceus-Fire
Arceus-Grass
Blastoise-Mega
Chien-Pao
Darmanitan-Galar
Deoxys
Deoxys-Speed
Ferrothorn
Genesect
Gholdengo
Kingambit
Landorus
Landorus-Therian
Lucario-Mega
Mewtwo
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Palkia-Origin
Pheromosa
Ribombee

Mid
Alakazam-Mega
Arceus-Electric
Arceus-Flying
Arceus-Poison
Arceus-Steel
Blissey
Cyclizar
Dialga
Diancie-Mega
Dracovish
Garganacl
Giratina
Gliscor
Iron Treads
Kyurem-White
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Lopunny-Mega
Lugia
Metagross-Mega
Naganadel
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Palkia
Reshiram
Roaring Moon
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Tapu Lele
Terapagos-Stellar
Toxapex
Tyranitar-Mega
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu
Walking Wake
Zamazenta-Crowned

Low
Annihilape
Celesteela
Clefable
Clodsire
Cloyster
Corviknight
Cresselia
Dugtrio
Espathra
Excadrill
Garchomp
Gothitelle
Great Tusk
Hatterene
Heatran
Hydrapple
Iron Bundle
Kangaskhan-Mega
Kartana
Latias
Mawile-Mega
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Palafin-Hero
Pelipper
Porygon2
Raging Bolt
Regieleki
Rillaboom
Rotom-Wash
Sableye-Mega
Samurott-Hisui
Sceptile-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Scolipede
Scream Tail
Shuckle
Skarmory
Slowbro-Mega
Slowking-Galar
Swampert-Mega
Tapu Koko
Tyranitar
Ursaluna
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Venusaur
Wobbuffet
Zamazenta

 

[Dahness]

Hello, i have the great honor of being the first post

I have played a fair bit of matches in this meta and i wanna share my opinions on some mons i really like:



Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor
- Toxic

This is the equivalent of glimmora in ndubers for me.Great lead, can chunk down other leads with endeavor and can get hazzards up very efficiently.




Palafin-Hero (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wave Crash

Palafin+kyogre is a great combo, they are able to hit teams very hard from both attacking sides while also having the rain act like a sort of steroid for Palafin.



Kyurem-Black @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Fusion Bolt
- Scale Shot

I honestly think this mon is gonna get banned in the near future, as its pretty insane.All u need is a dd, which has never been this easier as u can just tera electric on mons that usually threathen u like flutter, get those boosts up and clean the opp's team.Speaking of....


Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
- Power Gem

Great mon.It sometimes feels like Xerneas Jr.U can use in conjuction with to make it an insane all out attacker.



Arceus-Steel @ Steelium Z
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Recover
- Taunt

Boy is this thing a menace.+1 z iron head either kills or damages something like crazy,i like the fact that at the end of the day its still an arceus,so u never know what its gonna do when it first comes in.



Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind (ignore the evs on this one)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Unlike ndubers, here u dont have the primals, so u can freely switch the weather as u like, hence why i love using this thing wtih chilly glowking.Snow helps arceus become really hard to take down and lets it set up calm minds on a lot of mons.

Overall, i think this metagame is great, i love playing it and look forward to seeing what the other mons i haven't tested yet can do!

 

[Zrp200]

Compiled usage stats for round 1 of the kickoff tour.

+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon             | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
|      | Arceus-*            |   26 |  54.16% |  50.00% |
| 1    | Groudon             |   22 |  45.83% |  54.55% |
| 2    | Kyogre              |   13 |  27.08% |  76.92% |
| 3    | Grimmsnarl          |   11 |  22.92% |  72.73% |
| 4    | Magearna            |   11 |  22.92% |  63.63% |
| 5    | Zekrom              |   10 |  20.83% |  70.00% |
| 6    | Gholdengo           |    9 |  18.75% |  55.56% |
| 7    | Kingambit           |    9 |  18.75% |  44.44% |
| 8    | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings |    8 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Flutter Mane        |    8 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Landorus            |    8 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Blastoise-Mega      |    7 |  14.58% |  57.14% |
| 12   | Smeargle            |    7 |  14.58% |  71.43% |
| 13   | Chien-Pao           |    7 |  14.58% |  28.57% |
| 14   | Kyurem-Black        |    7 |  14.58% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Kartana             |    6 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Lopunny-Mega        |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 17   | Blaziken-Mega       |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 18   | Giratina            |    5 |  10.42% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Solgaleo            |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 20   | Lugia               |    5 |  10.42% |  20.00% |
| 21   | Arceus-Grass        |    5 |  10.42% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Arceus-Flying       |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 23   | Genesect            |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 24   | Arceus-Fire         |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 25   | Alomomola           |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Deoxys              |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Pheromosa           |    4 |   8.33% |  25.00% |
| 28   | Ribombee            |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Ferrothorn          |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Cyclizar            |    3 |   6.25% |  66.67% |
| 31   | Arceus-Water        |    3 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Chansey             |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Dondozo             |    3 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Naganadel           |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 35   | Reshiram            |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Landorus-Therian    |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Slowking-Galar      |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Arceus-Steel        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 39   | Annihilape          |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Steelix-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Toxapex             |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Dracovish           |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Lucario-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Scizor-Mega         |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 45   | Kyurem-White        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Regieleki           |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 47   | Arceus-Fighting     |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Roaring Moon        |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Tapu Lele           |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Diancie-Mega        |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Archaludon          |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 52   | Arceus-Psychic      |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Palkia-Origin       |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Darmanitan-Galar    |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Kangaskhan-Mega     |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 56   | Clefable            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 57   | Sableye-Mega        |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Tyranitar-Mega      |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Arceus-Dragon       |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Arceus-Electric     |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 61   | Metagross-Mega      |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 62   | Mawile-Mega         |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 63   | Palkia              |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Porygon2            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Ursaluna            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Clodsire            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 67   | Pelipper            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 68   | Dugtrio             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 69   | Moltres             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Sneasler            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 71   | Latias-Mega         |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Arceus-Poison       |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 73   | Palafin             |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 74   | Cresselia           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 75   | Great Tusk          |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 76   | Walking Wake        |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 77   | Scolipede           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 78   | Arceus-Ice          |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 79   | Ogerpon-Wellspring  |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 80   | Terapagos           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 81   | Dragapult           |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Mewtwo              |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |

 

[Runo]

NatDex Ubers UU has banned Flutter Mane, Kyurem-Black, and Light Clay
Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement


we also voted on other mons which you can see below​

Slate 3	Runo	Xurkiyee	Zrp200	Outcome
Flutter Mane	BAN	BAN	BAN	BANNED
Kyogre	DNB	DNB	DNB	NOT BANNED
Blaziken-Mega	DNB	BAN	DNB	NOT BANNED
Zekrom	DNB	DNB	DNB	NOT BANNED
Psychic Surge	DNB	DNB	DNB	NOT BANNED
Light Clay	BAN	BAN	BAN	BANNED
Kyurem-Black	BAN	BAN	DNB	BANNED

Flutter Mane has proven itself to be a warping threat to the metagame ever since it dropped with its stellar Calm Mind set being able to break down most defensive cores easily and general offensive sets with Choice Specs and Life Orb being able to dish out massive damage against supposed checks like bulky Kyogre and Groudon. It's great speed tier which already made it incredibly difficult to revenge kill now could be boosted to absurd levels thanks to Groudon's sun and invalidate most Choice Scarf users', such as Genesect and Darmanitan-Galar, attempts at taking it down. Sun also allowed Flutter Mane to bypass its only "true" check in Magearna with its powerful Mystical Fire. Offensive checks with priority such as Chien-Pao, Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lucario were often called upon to deal with Flutter Mane but none of those could switch into it nor could they feasibly punish it switching out making them mediocre revenge killers in general.


This wasn't initially perceived as an issue but Kyurem-Black has been making waves on the ladder with its absurdly powerful Dragon Dance sets having little to no substantial counterplay both defensively and offensively. Once boosted it could effectively maul the entire tier with Icicle Spear and Fusion Bolt sets having no switch ins and doing crazy damage to even the best physical walls such as Physically Defensive Ferrothorn. In addition to this, it was also a potent abuser of Tera (Tera Electric in particular) to invalidate checks such as Magearna and Mega Metagross and revenge killers such as Flutter Mane (banned now) and Genesect. Essentially the only way to not lose to Kyurem-Black was to make sure it never got the opportunity to setup, but with Tera that becomes a rather herculean task since it can easily invalidate checks that would force it out such as Dialga or Chien-Pao.


For a lot of the setup sweepers in the tier, including but not limited to some of the worst offenders such as Mega Blastoise and Zekrom, we felt that Screens hyper offense was a big reason that they were becoming unbearable in the metagame since they could easy setup under screens and run through entire teams. Especially with the lack of Ditto to punish these sweeping attempts and a general lack of anti-setup capabilities in the tier, it's way too much of an ask to tell people to find the counterplay to broken sweeper #13 and so on if its being heavily enabled by screens. Council is open to unbanning it at a later date but as it stands right now, Screens HO is a very unhealthy playstyle.

 

[Lupla]

Ok so despite my awful showing on ND UUbers Kickoff, i've been playing for a decent bit in order to get an opinion in the meta (at least what's mostly relevant on it) and since the discord was starting to make their personal VRs i decided to do one too but in forums so that it's not too dead (and i'm also only gonna focus on A mons and a few other things, if you wanna ask me anything then maybe on Discord)

image jumpscare

For anyone who's played this tier for a decent bit probably knows how dominant this whale is, it basically warps the meta around it way more than not just Groudon, who lost it's best partner in Flutter Mane, but even Zekrom. I won't dwell much on it as i think everyone knows what this does, being the biggest wallbreaker in the tier with not just Specs and Scarf Water Spouts (the latter in particular) but also how Tera really enhances the mon, making Water resists obsolete vs Specs while Scarf sets are sometimes capable of beating even things like Zekrom, Arceus-Water or Tera Water Magearna if it manages to keep itself healthy. Calm Mind sets also deserve a good mention as bulky variants eat nearly everything in the tier while offensive has the freedom of freely using other moves with Specs brutal power.



So the thing about these two is that i don't really think they're neither close to Kyogre's level (at least Magearna, Zekrom is debatable) nor i think they're at the same level as the other mons in A+. Zekrom was already considered to be extremely good despite the fact that you not only had Groudon and Flutter Mane roaming around but also the presence of Kyurem-Black who's mostly considered superior in most cases, Zekrom had some qualities over it like being able to more easily beat Magearna and supporting it's team with an offensive DD rocks set but most of the time you wanted Kyurem-Black.


Now what we have right now fits Zekrom excellently as Kyurem-Black got banned, Flutter Mane got banned, Groudon got a significant drop in usage, Kyogre takes over and now everything revolves around Waters and Grasses which is what Zekrom likes the most as it's easily able to force things out and setup with nothing being able to comfortably take a +1 Dragonium Z, one of the main reasons you run Iron Defense on Ferrothorn and why Arceus-Grass has so many moveslot syndromes as it doesn't wanna lose to either steels or Zekrom. Obviously it's not perfect, despite it's good resistances, it's typing still leaves some significant weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Ground which are notable as most of what it likes to switch into is capable of luring it or not give it a free setup such as CM Arceus forms (mainly Grass, Electric and Flying), Kyogre, Magearna, etc.


On the other hand, Magearna is simply an extremely versatile mon that keeps nearly everything in check. It has an excellent defensive typing, it's a good Spikes setter, it's not passive as Fleur Cannon does good damage even uninvested, it keeps momentum with Volt Switch, it disrupts all of the setup mons with either Encore or Heart Swap, it's a fantastic Tera user defensively (mainly Water) and it's setup variants are filled with options (Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Shift Gear + infinite coverage). It's importance was even bigger back when Kyurem-Black, Flutter Mane and Screens were around as it not only dealt with everything in it but also abused Screens itself to quickly snowball out of control.

Right now it's still dealing with all sorts of threats around, going from most Arceus variants found in BO and HO, to Rain teams with Kyogre and Palafin, to PsySpam with Tapu Lele, M-Alakazam and Sneasler to so much more.



These two were more or less hurt due to both the Flutter Mane ban and the Light Clay ban but they still remain as really good options in the meta (with M-Blaziken still being banworthy for some people).


Compared to Kyogre, Groudon just feels more like an enabler to threats rather than the threat itself, while SD sets are decent they aren't as much of a game breaker as the Dragon Dancers or even CM Ogre due to moveslot syndromes as well as the typing not being that favorable right now (since you'll just get drowned by Kyogre) and the lack of investment doesn't allow it to matchup well into most Arceus forms. On the other hand, it's support variants are a lot more appreciated as they're able to take on most of the physical attackers and revenge killers around such as Kingambit, Urshifu, M-Metagross, M-Lucario, M-Mewtwo X and most importantly Zekrom. The sun greatly benefits M-Blaziken and Ogerpon-Hearthflame, massively boosting their damage output to stupid levels alongside setup, but it also enables the other Paradox mons like Raging Bolt, Walking Wake or Roaring Moon.


This is really straight forward, SD Speed Boost with a stab combination that barely goes resisted (only having Giratina, Toxapex and full hp Terapagos to take boosted attacks). However this mon also suffers from just not having the bulk or resistances to setup a Swords Dance which is more apparent when Light Clay got banned and made the issue even worse but even boosted it really disliked how common Kyogre + Palafin is.


(Flying)
This section is gonna be long and also starts to be the point of bias.


I really love Kingambit in this tier, it's just pulling the same tricks as it's done in ND OU and still excels even on a meta like this, the reason i don't put it on A+ is mainly due to being really slow on a meta where Kyogre rain is dominant, PsySpam squads with Sneasler being a pain for it and it's struggle vs bulky Arceus forms. Other than that it's one of the best revenge killers around, mainly matching up well into most setup threats as it's the main reason Dawn-Wings even has Tera Fighting, being bulky enough to take most hits from things like CM Arceus-Flying, Zekrom, M-Metagross and completely dominating Magearna.


I'll be honest i'm not a fan of this thing, it's certainly powerful and has a lot of options in it's disposal but it really wants all of them and it's speed is kind of middling. I don't have much to say on this as i still need to test it out, i've seen it's good trades but the moveslot syndromes and poor matchup into weather makes me wanna drop this a lot (i really don't think this is A worthy at all).


Now this is the complete opposite, Arceus-Flying is probably the best CM user out of all the Arceus forms around as the combination of Flying Judgement and Earth Power goes entirely unresisted outside of specifc cases like Balloon Gholdengo. It brings Hyper Offense a setup threat that's not only offensively great but also gives them a valuable defensive backbone from how bulky it is and it's excellent defensive trades in order to check M-Lucario, Groudon, Lando-I, Urshifu, Pheromosa, Sneasler, M-Mewtwo X, M-Metagross and so much more. Support sets struggle with being rocks weak but the resists are great, it still brings all the utility in the world (Taunt, Defog, Refresh, Wisp, Toxic, etc) while having good synergy with most steels.


Filling a similar role to Magearna, the main differences are it's access to Leech Seed, Knock Off and Toxic while being a Water resist that doesn't completely lose to Dragons. It still hates the amount of Fighters in the tier as, unlike Magearna, it's weak to them and the presence of Tera not making it the best Kyogre check around for the entire game but it's still a great pick overall.


I pretty much just used Scarf on this, it's a good revenge killer as it's faster than both base 90s and 95s while not lacking in the power department (compared to Pheromosa). I'm not really certain on other sets but it's basically a fast Kingambit in terms of dealing with Offense that also appreciates the bans.

Honorable Mentions:

This mon has good potential i just need to find a good build for it

So base is just completely outclassed by M-Zam while X is kind of a weird one, i need to experiment more with it

I'm a M-Blastoise hater, it's just really reliant on Terrain to get a safe setup and even then it doesn't really have too many chances to do so

(and a few more): I think stall has potential, mainly with Pex's TSpikes but i don't think either Lugia or M-Sableye are worth having (especially m-sab that thing does nothing)


So was this too long and completely filled with stuff nearly anyone knows? Yes and probably, i started to rant too much but i wanted to keep some activity around here, the meta is honestly fun despite having a few glaring issues (Zekrom, possibly Kyogre, PsySpam and apparently Moody but i don't agree with that one). See yall in probably my next post of ND RU's recent VR update!

 

[JustCallMeFish]

Ok so despite my awful showing on ND UUbers Kickoff, i've been playing for a decent bit in order to get an opinion in the meta (at least what's mostly relevant on it) and since the discord was starting to make their personal VRs i decided to do one too but in forums so that it's not too dead (and i'm also only gonna focus on A mons and a few other things, if you wanna ask me anything then maybe on Discord)

image jumpscare

View attachment 631441

For anyone who's played this tier for a decent bit probably knows how dominant this whale is, it basically warps the meta around it way more than not just Groudon, who lost it's best partner in Flutter Mane, but even Zekrom. I won't dwell much on it as i think everyone knows what this does, being the biggest wallbreaker in the tier with not just Specs and Scarf Water Spouts (the latter in particular) but also how Tera really enhances the mon, making Water resists obsolete vs Specs while Scarf sets are sometimes capable of beating even things like Zekrom, Arceus-Water or Tera Water Magearna if it manages to keep itself healthy. Calm Mind sets also deserve a good mention as bulky variants eat nearly everything in the tier while offensive has the freedom of freely using other moves with Specs brutal power.



So the thing about these two is that i don't really think they're neither close to Kyogre's level (at least Magearna, Zekrom is debatable) nor i think they're at the same level as the other mons in A+. Zekrom was already considered to be extremely good despite the fact that you not only had Groudon and Flutter Mane roaming around but also the presence of Kyurem-Black who's mostly considered superior in most cases, Zekrom had some qualities over it like being able to more easily beat Magearna and supporting it's team with an offensive DD rocks set but most of the time you wanted Kyurem-Black.


Now what we have right now fits Zekrom excellently as Kyurem-Black got banned, Flutter Mane got banned, Groudon got a significant drop in usage, Kyogre takes over and now everything revolves around Waters and Grasses which is what Zekrom likes the most as it's easily able to force things out and setup with nothing being able to comfortably take a +1 Dragonium Z, one of the main reasons you run Iron Defense on Ferrothorn and why Arceus-Grass has so many moveslot syndromes as it doesn't wanna lose to either steels or Zekrom. Obviously it's not perfect, despite it's good resistances, it's typing still leaves some significant weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Ground which are notable as most of what it likes to switch into is capable of luring it or not give it a free setup such as CM Arceus forms (mainly Grass, Electric and Flying), Kyogre, Magearna, etc.


On the other hand, Magearna is simply an extremely versatile mon that keeps nearly everything in check. It has an excellent defensive typing, it's a good Spikes setter, it's not passive as Fleur Cannon does good damage even uninvested, it keeps momentum with Volt Switch, it disrupts all of the setup mons with either Encore or Heart Swap, it's a fantastic Tera user defensively (mainly Water) and it's setup variants are filled with options (Iron Defense, Calm Mind, Shift Gear + infinite coverage). It's importance was even bigger back when Kyurem-Black, Flutter Mane and Screens were around as it not only dealt with everything in it but also abused Screens itself to quickly snowball out of control.

Right now it's still dealing with all sorts of threats around, going from most Arceus variants found in BO and HO, to Rain teams with Kyogre and Palafin, to PsySpam with Tapu Lele, M-Alakazam and Sneasler to so much more.



These two were more or less hurt due to both the Flutter Mane ban and the Light Clay ban but they still remain as really good options in the meta (with M-Blaziken still being banworthy for some people).


Compared to Kyogre, Groudon just feels more like an enabler to threats rather than the threat itself, while SD sets are decent they aren't as much of a game breaker as the Dragon Dancers or even CM Ogre due to moveslot syndromes as well as the typing not being that favorable right now (since you'll just get drowned by Kyogre) and the lack of investment doesn't allow it to matchup well into most Arceus forms. On the other hand, it's support variants are a lot more appreciated as they're able to take on most of the physical attackers and revenge killers around such as Kingambit, Urshifu, M-Metagross, M-Lucario, M-Mewtwo X and most importantly Zekrom. The sun greatly benefits M-Blaziken and Ogerpon-Hearthflame, massively boosting their damage output to stupid levels alongside setup, but it also enables the other Paradox mons like Raging Bolt, Walking Wake or Roaring Moon.


This is really straight forward, SD Speed Boost with a stab combination that barely goes resisted (only having Giratina, Toxapex and full hp Terapagos to take boosted attacks). However this mon also suffers from just not having the bulk or resistances to setup a Swords Dance which is more apparent when Light Clay got banned and made the issue even worse but even boosted it really disliked how common Kyogre + Palafin is.


(Flying)
This section is gonna be long and also starts to be the point of bias.


I really love Kingambit in this tier, it's just pulling the same tricks as it's done in ND OU and still excels even on a meta like this, the reason i don't put it on A+ is mainly due to being really slow on a meta where Kyogre rain is dominant, PsySpam squads with Sneasler being a pain for it and it's struggle vs bulky Arceus forms. Other than that it's one of the best revenge killers around, mainly matching up well into most setup threats as it's the main reason Dawn-Wings even has Tera Fighting, being bulky enough to take most hits from things like CM Arceus-Flying, Zekrom, M-Metagross and completely dominating Magearna.


I'll be honest i'm not a fan of this thing, it's certainly powerful and has a lot of options in it's disposal but it really wants all of them and it's speed is kind of middling. I don't have much to say on this as i still need to test it out, i've seen it's good trades but the moveslot syndromes and poor matchup into weather makes me wanna drop this a lot (i really don't think this is A worthy at all).


Now this is the complete opposite, Arceus-Flying is probably the best CM user out of all the Arceus forms around as the combination of Flying Judgement and Earth Power goes entirely unresisted outside of specifc cases like Balloon Gholdengo. It brings Hyper Offense a setup threat that's not only offensively great but also gives them a valuable defensive backbone from how bulky it is and it's excellent defensive trades in order to check M-Lucario, Groudon, Lando-I, Urshifu, Pheromosa, Sneasler, M-Mewtwo X, M-Metagross and so much more. Support sets struggle with being rocks weak but the resists are great, it still brings all the utility in the world (Taunt, Defog, Refresh, Wisp, Toxic, etc) while having good synergy with most steels.


Filling a similar role to Magearna, the main differences are it's access to Leech Seed, Knock Off and Toxic while being a Water resist that doesn't completely lose to Dragons. It still hates the amount of Fighters in the tier as, unlike Magearna, it's weak to them and the presence of Tera not making it the best Kyogre check around for the entire game but it's still a great pick overall.


I pretty much just used Scarf on this, it's a good revenge killer as it's faster than both base 90s and 95s while not lacking in the power department (compared to Pheromosa). I'm not really certain on other sets but it's basically a fast Kingambit in terms of dealing with Offense that also appreciates the bans.

Honorable Mentions:

This mon has good potential i just need to find a good build for it

So base is just completely outclassed by M-Zam while X is kind of a weird one, i need to experiment more with it

I'm a M-Blastoise hater, it's just really reliant on Terrain to get a safe setup and even then it doesn't really have too many chances to do so

(and a few more): I think stall has potential, mainly with Pex's TSpikes but i don't think either Lugia or M-Sableye are worth having (especially m-sab that thing does nothing)


So was this too long and completely filled with stuff nearly anyone knows? Yes and probably, i started to rant too much but i wanted to keep some activity around here, the meta is honestly fun despite having a few glaring issues (Zekrom, possibly Kyogre, PsySpam and apparently Moody but i don't agree with that one). See yall in probably my next post of ND RU's recent VR update!

Ok, so, mega blastoise, i agree with almost all said here but it, Mtoise is most definitively good if it gets a free turn, if you can manage that is a whole different question, but if it gets it (specially if their arceus is water), its gonna blow something up (and now terrain is up, its also kinda useless if the opponent just brings rillaboom, which definetly has potential due to strong grass type priority in kyogre's tier) the mag vs ferro debate is interesting, but i have a personal issue with both (ferro's probably better due to knock), mewtwo doesn't take a mega slot so it can fill that purpose without taking away your mega blaziken/blastoise that those teams love so much
The whole meta is infested with HO, webs, psychic terrain, deoxys hazard lead and other more niche options. you really need to be careful to not be passive, (part of my issues with the steels) zekrom is just, a dumb mon with both z and tera, and so is choiced kyogre, this tier definitively needs a few more bans to make it playable

 

[Xurkiyee]

Natdex Ubers UU has banned Zekrom, Kyogre, and Blaziken-Mega

​

Slate 4	Runo	Xurkiyee	Zrp200	Outcome
Zekrom	Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Kyogre	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Blaziken-Mega	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Blastoise-Mega	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Not Banned
Psychic Surge	Do Not Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Not Banned
Chi-Yu	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	No Action
Zacian	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	Unban	No Action

Zekrom has been causing havoc since day 1 and has gotten more and more vicious by the day. It really only used the Dragon Dance sets, but there were simply too many possible combinations which very easily won the game if given one free turn. In the last two slots (dd and Bolt Strike were mandatory), Zekrom can run Substitute letting it dodge status, Dragon Claw for consistent damage, Outrage for massive damage, and even more fringe options like Magnet Rise and Roost. Dragonium-z has almost no switch ins due to the dearth of great fairies and most steels risk Bolt Strike or are Ferrothorn. Zekrom can forgo z moves for Leftovers or Air Balloon to not only synergize well with Substitute, but also open up the game further with a defensive tera like fairy, steel or flying to get off two DDs. The cherry on top is its ability Teravolt, meaning that unaware pokemon like Dondozo and Skeledirge can't even pretend to check Zekrom unless they run Ability Shield, which is a terrible item in every other situation.


Ever since Kyogre has dropped into the tier it has warped everything around its presence. The sheer power of max power rain boosted Water Spouts on scarf Kyogre requires very bulky resists to not get flooded, and even some resists like Ferrothorn, resistant Arceus formes, Blissey, Zekrom, and Kyurem-White can't even switch in if Kyogre uses tera water. The only real switch ins were Ogerpon-Wellspring and Palkia, both of which would be ruined if they came in on a thunder. This is the threat level of just scarf Kyogre, the whale had plenty of other sets which dictate what was allowed to beat it. Specs required a defensive tera or utility umbrella Blissey to survive, Calm Mind gave the ogre user the freedom to switch moves and get health back with leftovers or obliterate any wall with +1 Hydro Vortex, and boots also showed up as an option to keep spamming water spout in the face of hazards and ignore webs.


Blaziken is notorious for being a fire cracker of a pokemon with explosive potential at the cost of burning away at its health with Flare Blitz recoil and Close Combat drops, making it suspectable to priority. It's mega form gets vastly improved with more strength, increased bulk for taking priority and a much better speed tier which makes its able to outspeed the good scarfers at +1. Its power is so great that if you get a Swords Dance off then nothing can really stop it other than Giratina, Dondozo, Toxapex, and Lugia, all of which are relegated to stall. Low Kick and Flare Blitz are a hard STAB combination to beat, especially under the sun. Knock off allows it to beat checks like Giratina, and Protect snowballs speed boosts to a point where you could even outrun something like +2 sneasler. Blaziken simply steamrolls offense and defense alike off of one opportunity, which isn't that tall of a task because it finds its way on Chien-Pao, Genesect, Arceus-Grass or gets a free speed boost from protect.

 

[JustCallMeFish]

Finally, something has been done, a little too late though

 

[Runo]

Natdex Ubers UU has banned Zekrom, Kyogre, and Blaziken-Mega

​

Slate 4	Runo	Xurkiyee	Zrp200	Outcome
Zekrom	Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Kyogre	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Blaziken-Mega	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Banned
Blastoise-Mega	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Not Banned
Psychic Surge	Do Not Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Not Banned
Chi-Yu	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	No Action
Zacian	Do Not Unban	Do Not Unban	Unban	No Action

Zekrom has been causing havoc since day 1 and has gotten more and more vicious by the day. It really only used the Dragon Dance sets, but there were simply too many possible combinations which very easily won the game if given one free turn. In the last two slots (dd and Bolt Strike were mandatory), Zekrom can run Substitute letting it dodge status, Dragon Claw for consistent damage, Outrage for massive damage, and even more fringe options like Magnet Rise and Roost. Dragonium-z has almost no switch ins due to the dearth of great fairies and most steels risk Bolt Strike or are Ferrothorn. Zekrom can forgo z moves for Leftovers or Air Balloon to not only synergize well with Substitute, but also open up the game further with a defensive tera like fairy, steel or flying to get off two DDs. The cherry on top is its ability Teravolt, meaning that unaware pokemon like Dondozo and Skeledirge can't even pretend to check Zekrom unless they run Ability Shield, which is a terrible item in every other situation.


Ever since Kyogre has dropped into the tier it has warped everything around its presence. The sheer power of max power rain boosted Water Spouts on scarf Kyogre requires very bulky resists to not get flooded, and even some resists like Ferrothorn, resistant Arceus formes, Blissey, Zekrom, and Kyurem-White can't even switch in if Kyogre uses tera water. The only real switch ins were Ogerpon-Wellspring and Palkia, both of which would be ruined if they came in on a thunder. This is the threat level of just scarf Kyogre, the whale had plenty of other sets which dictate what was allowed to beat it. Specs required a defensive tera or utility umbrella Blissey to survive, Calm Mind gave the ogre user the freedom to switch moves and get health back with leftovers or obliterate any wall with +1 Hydro Vortex, and boots also showed up as an option to keep spamming water spout in the face of hazards and ignore webs.


Blaziken is notorious for being a fire cracker of a pokemon with explosive potential at the cost of burning away at its health with Flare Blitz recoil and Close Combat drops, making it suspectable to priority. It's mega form gets vastly improved with more strength, increased bulk for taking priority and a much better speed tier which makes its able to outspeed the good scarfers at +1. Its power is so great that if you get a Swords Dance off then nothing can really stop it other than Giratina, Dondozo, Toxapex, and Lugia, all of which are relegated to stall. Low Kick and Flare Blitz are a hard STAB combination to beat, especially under the sun. Knock off allows it to beat checks like Giratina, and Protect snowballs speed boosts to a point where you could even outrun something like +2 sneasler. Blaziken simply steamrolls offense and defense alike off of one opportunity, which isn't that tall of a task because it finds its way on Chien-Pao, Genesect, Arceus-Grass or gets a free speed boost from protect.

Didn't realize we kept our challengeable format, so tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement.

 

[SkyOfSouls]

So I did this to see what changed with the July usage stats :

National Dex Ubers

 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Groudon-Primal     | 56.59826% | 82234  | 23.677% | 64982  | 25.577% |
| 2    | Yveltal            | 38.41634% | 51517  | 14.833% | 39876  | 15.695% |
| 3    | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | 31.13705% | 41565  | 11.968% | 29993  | 11.805% |
| 4    | Zacian-Crowned     | 27.37361% | 46866  | 13.494% | 32890  | 12.945% |
| 5    | Ho-Oh              | 26.89771% | 37124  | 10.689% | 28914  | 11.380% |
| 6    | Zygarde            | 25.51805% | 39132  | 11.267% | 28578  | 11.248% |
| 7    | Arceus             | 25.03498% | 30988  |  8.922% | 21250  |  8.364% |
| 8    | Kyogre-Primal      | 23.51054% | 43596  | 12.552% | 31754  | 12.498% |
| 9    | Marshadow          | 21.41021% | 41818  | 12.040% | 29520  | 11.619% |
| 10   | Eternatus          | 20.22950% | 23931  |  6.890% | 17902  |  7.046% |
| 11   | Arceus-Fairy       | 11.74444% | 13739  |  3.956% | 10794  |  4.248% |
| 12   | Giratina-Origin    | 11.08814% | 14759  |  4.249% | 11415  |  4.493% |
| 13   | Arceus-Ground      | 11.01175% | 11317  |  3.258% | 8823   |  3.473% |
| 14   | Salamence-Mega     | 10.43849% | 20781  |  5.983% | 13970  |  5.499% |
| 15   | Calyrex-Ice        |  9.69792% | 14405  |  4.148% | 10282  |  4.047% |
| 16   | Arceus-Dark        |  9.11709% | 9470   |  2.727% | 7391   |  2.909% |
| 17   | Rayquaza           |  8.00020% | 16043  |  4.619% | 11531  |  4.539% |
| 18   | Deoxys-Attack      |  7.40924% | 12678  |  3.650% | 9289   |  3.656% |
| 19   | Melmetal           |  6.91379% | 14365  |  4.136% | 11288  |  4.443% |
| 20   | Smeargle           |  6.56596% | 10284  |  2.961% | 9299   |  3.660% |
| 21   | Mewtwo-Mega-Y      |  6.26234% | 16609  |  4.782% | 11381  |  4.479% |
| 22   | Ditto              |  6.10640% | 11458  |  3.299% | 8265   |  3.253% |
| 23   | Lunala             |  5.59833% | 7702   |  2.218% | 5612   |  2.209% |
| 24   | Dondozo            |  5.47033% | 7412   |  2.134% | 5434   |  2.139% |
| 25   | Chansey            |  5.29156% | 9678   |  2.787% | 7008   |  2.758% |
| 26   | Kyurem-Black       |  4.74690% | 8831   |  2.543% | 6168   |  2.428% |
| 27   | Glimmora           |  4.69675% | 12911  |  3.717% | 11747  |  4.624% |
| 28   | Hatterene          |  4.68900% | 10885  |  3.134% | 8509   |  3.349% |
| 29   | Shuckle            |  4.41310% | 12871  |  3.706% | 11968  |  4.711% |
| 30   | Chien-Pao          |  3.90647% | 10486  |  3.019% | 7538   |  2.967% |
| 31   | Kyogre             |  3.81030% | 9428   |  2.715% | 6758   |  2.660% |
| 32   | Deoxys-Speed       |  3.75804% | 6969   |  2.007% | 6370   |  2.507% |
| 33   | Ferrothorn         |  3.72205% | 16218  |  4.670% | 13196  |  5.194% |
| 34   | Lugia              |  3.62430% | 10127  |  2.916% | 7460   |  2.936% |
| 35   | Kingambit          |  3.55356% | 14573  |  4.196% | 9242   |  3.638% |
| 36   | Alomomola          |  3.31894% | 6288   |  1.810% | 4858   |  1.912% |
| 37   | Pheromosa          |  3.08632% | 9785   |  2.817% | 7396   |  2.911% |
| 38   | Cresselia          |  2.97348% | 3469   |  0.999% | 2535   |  0.998% |
| 39   | Arceus-Water       |  2.85255% | 3659   |  1.054% | 2864   |  1.127% |
| 40   | Gholdengo          |  2.58393% | 10272  |  2.958% | 6871   |  2.704% |
| 41   | Mewtwo-Mega-X      |  2.54700% | 5338   |  1.537% | 3861   |  1.520% |
| 42   | Lucario-Mega       |  2.48067% | 19216  |  5.533% | 13745  |  5.410% |
| 43   | Mewtwo             |  2.26918% | 3556   |  1.024% | 2505   |  0.986% |
| 44   | Flutter Mane       |  2.23529% | 13767  |  3.964% | 9574   |  3.768% |
| 45   | Diancie-Mega       |  2.17998% | 5510   |  1.586% | 4398   |  1.731% |
| 46   | Terapagos          |  2.16808% | 6884   |  1.982% | 5069   |  1.995% |
| 47   | Tapu Lele          |  2.09946% | 5845   |  1.683% | 4704   |  1.851% |
| 48   | Zekrom             |  2.09239% | 5049   |  1.454% | 3634   |  1.430% |
| 49   | Palkia-Origin      |  2.06161% | 4484   |  1.291% | 3399   |  1.338% |
| 50   | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings |  2.00453% | 7401   |  2.131% | 5304   |  2.088% |
| 51   | Giratina           |  1.99598% | 4483   |  1.291% | 3268   |  1.286% |
| 52   | Kyurem-White       |  1.93582% | 4832   |  1.391% | 3461   |  1.362% |
| 53   | Basculegion        |  1.89904% | 8104   |  2.333% | 4948   |  1.948% |
| 54   | Garganacl          |  1.83237% | 5883   |  1.694% | 4545   |  1.789% |
| 55   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.77408% | 10171  |  2.928% | 8637   |  3.399% |
| 56   | Darmanitan-Galar   |  1.75135% | 12507  |  3.601% | 9120   |  3.590% |
| 57   | Landorus-Therian   |  1.72889% | 8551   |  2.462% | 6930   |  2.728% |
| 58   | Chi-Yu             |  1.70074% | 5419   |  1.560% | 3787   |  1.491% |
| 59   | Kangaskhan-Mega    |  1.68194% | 7488   |  2.156% | 5795   |  2.281% |
| 60   | Dracovish          |  1.66081% | 16631  |  4.788% | 11990  |  4.719% |
| 61   | Regieleki          |  1.62290% | 11155  |  3.212% | 8381   |  3.299% |
| 62   | Zamazenta-Crowned  |  1.62023% | 4822   |  1.388% | 3470   |  1.366% |
| 63   | Arceus-Ghost       |  1.60179% | 2528   |  0.728% | 1886   |  0.742% |
| 64   | Magearna           |  1.54105% | 5674   |  1.634% | 4180   |  1.645% |
| 65   | Landorus           |  1.50306% | 4358   |  1.255% | 3193   |  1.257% |
| 66   | Dialga-Origin      |  1.35781% | 3024   |  0.871% | 2426   |  0.955% |
| 67   | Ursaluna-Bloodmoon |  1.32854% | 5934   |  1.709% | 4247   |  1.672% |
| 68   | Cyclizar           |  1.32811% | 6125   |  1.764% | 5218   |  2.054% |
| 69   | Shaymin-Sky        |  1.31222% | 6994   |  2.014% | 5069   |  1.995% |
| 70   | Dialga             |  1.30141% | 2400   |  0.691% | 1921   |  0.756% |
| 71   | Blaziken-Mega      |  1.29742% | 14792  |  4.259% | 10605  |  4.174% |
| 72   | Blastoise-Mega     |  1.26947% | 8226   |  2.368% | 6004   |  2.363% |
| 73   | Metagross-Mega     |  1.26007% | 9387   |  2.703% | 6913   |  2.721% |
| 74   | Sableye-Mega       |  1.20851% | 3385   |  0.975% | 2808   |  1.105% |
| 75   | Ribombee           |  1.14986% | 5667   |  1.632% | 5075   |  1.997% |
| 76   | Alakazam-Mega      |  1.10494% | 7183   |  2.068% | 4714   |  1.855% |
| 77   | Toxapex            |  1.05919% | 9981   |  2.874% | 7493   |  2.949% |
| 78   | Excadrill          |  1.03268% | 7033   |  2.025% | 5461   |  2.149% |
| 79   | Groudon            |  1.00977% | 3496   |  1.007% | 2888   |  1.137% |
| 80   | Arceus-Electric    |  0.99700% | 1314   |  0.378% | 1013   |  0.399% |
| 81   | Gothitelle         |  0.94953% | 2070   |  0.596% | 1469   |  0.578% |
| 82   | Naganadel          |  0.93614% | 6150   |  1.771% | 4464   |  1.757% |
| 83   | Dragapult          |  0.93231% | 19932  |  5.739% | 14229  |  5.600% |
| 84   | Skeledirge         |  0.91473% | 6365   |  1.833% | 4627   |  1.821% |
| 85   | Arceus-Flying      |  0.91449% | 992    |  0.286% | 772    |  0.304% |
| 86   | Urshifu            |  0.90452% | 6048   |  1.741% | 4332   |  1.705% |
| 87   | Annihilape         |  0.88239% | 11756  |  3.385% | 8456   |  3.328% |
| 88   | Iron Bundle        |  0.86446% | 6326   |  1.821% | 4257   |  1.676% |
| 89   | Banette-Mega       |  0.82994% | 4314   |  1.242% | 3185   |  1.254% |
| 90   | Palafin            |  0.80921% | 8354   |  2.405% | 6976   |  2.746% |
| 91   | Blissey            |  0.74849% | 4853   |  1.397% | 3339   |  1.314% |
| 92   | Reshiram           |  0.71868% | 2458   |  0.708% | 1738   |  0.684% |
| 93   | Porygon2           |  0.69093% | 3547   |  1.021% | 2922   |  1.150% |
| 94   | Murkrow            |  0.68699% | 1857   |  0.535% | 1321   |  0.520% |
| 95   | Charizard-Mega-Y   |  0.68556% | 8649   |  2.490% | 6318   |  2.487% |
| 96   | Genesect           |  0.66722% | 5565   |  1.602% | 4026   |  1.585% |
| 97   | Gliscor            |  0.66156% | 12615  |  3.632% | 9543   |  3.756% |
| 98   | Tapu Koko          |  0.65186% | 6128   |  1.764% | 4901   |  1.929% |
| 99   | Palkia             |  0.65014% | 2006   |  0.578% | 1469   |  0.578% |
| 100  | Forretress         |  0.63964% | 2723   |  0.784% | 2364   |  0.930% |
| 101  | Solgaleo           |  0.62642% | 2748   |  0.791% | 2000   |  0.787% |
| 102  | Clodsire           |  0.62023% | 5358   |  1.543% | 4105   |  1.616% |
| 103  | Ogerpon-Hearthflame |  0.59910% | 4651   |  1.339% | 3009   |  1.184% |
| 104  | Greninja           |  0.58912% | 15223  |  4.383% | 11107  |  4.372% |
| 105  | Galvantula         |  0.58309% | 7405   |  2.132% | 6836   |  2.691% |
| 106  | Great Tusk         |  0.56089% | 6593   |  1.898% | 4760   |  1.874% |
| 107  | Sneasler           |  0.55150% | 7511   |  2.163% | 5596   |  2.203% |
| 108  | Corviknight        |  0.54591% | 9692   |  2.791% | 6790   |  2.673% |
| 109  | Dragonite          |  0.54190% | 12326  |  3.549% | 8889   |  3.499% |
| 110  | Iron Treads        |  0.53410% | 2900   |  0.835% | 2193   |  0.863% |
| 111  | Venusaur-Mega      |  0.52010% | 3170   |  0.913% | 2316   |  0.912% |
| 112  | Regirock           |  0.50495% | 1152   |  0.332% | 884    |  0.348% |
| 113  | Ursaluna           |  0.49529% | 4425   |  1.274% | 3357   |  1.321% |
| 114  | Mawile-Mega        |  0.48239% | 4615   |  1.329% | 3218   |  1.267% |
| 115  | Garchomp           |  0.47366% | 11963  |  3.444% | 8868   |  3.490% |
| 116  | Archaludon         |  0.46755% | 5571   |  1.604% | 4089   |  1.609% |
| 117  | Quagsire           |  0.46612% | 4061   |  1.169% | 3000   |  1.181% |
| 118  | Victini            |  0.46501% | 2852   |  0.821% | 2157   |  0.849% |
| 119  | Ting-Lu            |  0.46381% | 1679   |  0.483% | 1376   |  0.542% |
| 120  | Baxcalibur         |  0.44508% | 8178   |  2.355% | 5652   |  2.225% |
| 121  | Scizor-Mega        |  0.43900% | 6227   |  1.793% | 4545   |  1.789% |
| 122  | Roaring Moon       |  0.43763% | 4227   |  1.217% | 2849   |  1.121% |
| 123  | Stakataka          |  0.43364% | 2090   |  0.602% | 1591   |  0.626% |
| 124  | Spectrier          |  0.42696% | 1911   |  0.550% | 1337   |  0.526% |
| 125  | Slurpuff           |  0.42235% | 2367   |  0.682% | 2046   |  0.805% |
| 126  | Tyranitar-Mega     |  0.40963% | 3179   |  0.915% | 2438   |  0.960% |
| 127  | Kartana            |  0.40637% | 7820   |  2.252% | 5696   |  2.242% |
| 128  | Skarmory           |  0.40280% | 4135   |  1.191% | 3515   |  1.383% |
| 129  | Arceus-Rock        |  0.40013% | 417    |  0.120% | 305    |  0.120% |
| 130  | Samurott-Hisui     |  0.39216% | 4578   |  1.318% | 3825   |  1.505% |
| 131  | Blaziken           |  0.38986% | 5533   |  1.593% | 4032   |  1.587% |
| 132  | Rillaboom          |  0.38807% | 6674   |  1.922% | 4618   |  1.818% |
| 133  | Sandy Shocks       |  0.38604% | 1173   |  0.338% | 988    |  0.389% |
| 134  | Walking Wake       |  0.38220% | 3740   |  1.077% | 2604   |  1.025% |
| 135  | Tyranitar          |  0.38109% | 5177   |  1.491% | 4036   |  1.589% |
| 136  | Lopunny-Mega       |  0.38087% | 5849   |  1.684% | 4519   |  1.779% |
| 137  | Volcarona          |  0.38075% | 11571  |  3.332% | 7898   |  3.109% |
| 138  | Arceus-Grass       |  0.37417% | 935    |  0.269% | 679    |  0.267% |
| 139  | Arceus-Steel       |  0.32629% | 946    |  0.272% | 711    |  0.280% |
| 140  | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  0.32421% | 6121   |  1.762% | 4365   |  1.718% |
| 141  | Swampert-Mega      |  0.32174% | 4923   |  1.417% | 3756   |  1.478% |
| 142  | Mandibuzz          |  0.31749% | 1461   |  0.421% | 1097   |  0.432% |
| 143  | Aegislash          |  0.31671% | 7431   |  2.140% | 5187   |  2.042% |
| 144  | Ninetales-Alola    |  0.30440% | 4824   |  1.389% | 3834   |  1.509% |
| 145  | Ogerpon-Wellspring |  0.30087% | 2568   |  0.739% | 1742   |  0.686% |
| 146  | Zoroark-Hisui      |  0.29721% | 6697   |  1.928% | 2758   |  1.086% |
| 147  | Arceus-Dragon      |  0.29295% | 556    |  0.160% | 430    |  0.169% |
| 148  | Pelipper           |  0.29098% | 7236   |  2.083% | 6197   |  2.439% |
| 149  | Raging Bolt        |  0.28890% | 3653   |  1.052% | 2701   |  1.063% |
| 150  | Slowbro-Mega       |  0.28883% | 1097   |  0.316% | 837    |  0.329% |
| 151  | Meowscarada        |  0.28837% | 6569   |  1.891% | 4763   |  1.875% |
| 152  | Darkrai            |  0.28729% | 4354   |  1.254% | 3136   |  1.234% |
| 153  | Mimikyu            |  0.28725% | 7066   |  2.034% | 5338   |  2.101% |
| 154  | Charizard-Mega-X   |  0.28292% | 6658   |  1.917% | 4589   |  1.806% |
| 155  | Espathra           |  0.27993% | 4385   |  1.263% | 2990   |  1.177% |
| 156  | Whimsicott         |  0.27707% | 2091   |  0.602% | 1632   |  0.642% |
| 157  | Serperior          |  0.27687% | 7333   |  2.111% | 5311   |  2.090% |
| 158  | Zapdos             |  0.25574% | 4744   |  1.366% | 3436   |  1.352% |
| 159  | Salamence          |  0.25006% | 2793   |  0.804% | 2040   |  0.803% |
| 160  | Cloyster           |  0.24968% | 4815   |  1.386% | 3610   |  1.421% |
| 161  | Arceus-Fighting    |  0.24954% | 433    |  0.125% | 305    |  0.120% |
| 162  | Gengar             |  0.24738% | 7695   |  2.216% | 5769   |  2.271% |
| 163  | Gouging Fire       |  0.24699% | 1988   |  0.572% | 1383   |  0.544% |
| 164  | Orthworm           |  0.24285% | 2656   |  0.765% | 2306   |  0.908% |
| 165  | Weavile            |  0.24159% | 4422   |  1.273% | 3255   |  1.281% |
| 166  | Heatran            |  0.24087% | 4617   |  1.329% | 3407   |  1.341% |
| 167  | Houndstone         |  0.23944% | 2213   |  0.637% | 1375   |  0.541% |
| 168  | Ceruledge          |  0.23533% | 6795   |  1.956% | 5056   |  1.990% |
| 169  | Incineroar         |  0.23275% | 6476   |  1.865% | 5191   |  2.043% |
| 170  | Aggron-Mega        |  0.23219% | 2345   |  0.675% | 1729   |  0.681% |
| 171  | Clefable           |  0.22803% | 4607   |  1.326% | 3339   |  1.314% |
| 172  | Wo-Chien           |  0.22436% | 569    |  0.164% | 432    |  0.170% |
| 173  | Iron Valiant       |  0.22428% | 5435   |  1.565% | 3664   |  1.442% |
| 174  | Zacian             |  0.22178% | 619    |  0.178% | 463    |  0.182% |
| 175  | Wobbuffet          |  0.22016% | 1889   |  0.544% | 1467   |  0.577% |
| 176  | Cinderace          |  0.21981% | 6253   |  1.800% | 4463   |  1.757% |
| 177  | Mew                |  0.21555% | 3120   |  0.898% | 2307   |  0.908% |
| 178  | Dugtrio            |  0.21335% | 1646   |  0.474% | 1223   |  0.481% |
| 179  | Arcanine-Hisui     |  0.20476% | 3040   |  0.875% | 2133   |  0.840% |
| 180  | Torkoal            |  0.20464% | 3935   |  1.133% | 3484   |  1.371% |
| 181  | Gyarados-Mega      |  0.20417% | 3264   |  0.940% | 2479   |  0.976% |
| 182  | Sceptile-Mega      |  0.20349% | 3417   |  0.984% | 2496   |  0.982% |
| 183  | Latias-Mega        |  0.20054% | 997    |  0.287% | 711    |  0.280% |
| 184  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.20049% | 2325   |  0.669% | 1814   |  0.714% |
| 185  | Zamazenta          |  0.20024% | 943    |  0.272% | 698    |  0.275% |
| 186  | Indeedee-F         |  0.19709% | 1141   |  0.329% | 830    |  0.327% |
| 187  | Slowking-Galar     |  0.19473% | 3198   |  0.921% | 2375   |  0.935% |
| 188  | Araquanid          |  0.19198% | 2119   |  0.610% | 1830   |  0.720% |
| 189  | Rotom-Wash         |  0.19177% | 5909   |  1.701% | 4496   |  1.770% |
| 190  | Xurkitree          |  0.17021% | 2913   |  0.839% | 2142   |  0.843% |
| 191  | Hydreigon          |  0.16551% | 3587   |  1.033% | 2546   |  1.002% |
| 192  | Kleavor            |  0.16460% | 2019   |  0.581% | 1725   |  0.679% |
| 193  | Dusclops           |  0.15712% | 1131   |  0.326% | 919    |  0.362% |
| 194  | Espeon             |  0.15249% | 3522   |  1.014% | 2427   |  0.955% |
| 195  | Infernape          |  0.15154% | 3862   |  1.112% | 2866   |  1.128% |
| 196  | Iron Hands         |  0.15144% | 1988   |  0.572% | 1487   |  0.585% |
| 197  | Gardevoir-Mega     |  0.15137% | 3807   |  1.096% | 2400   |  0.945% |
| 198  | Scolipede          |  0.15101% | 1456   |  0.419% | 1146   |  0.451% |
| 199  | Linoone            |  0.15028% | 787    |  0.227% | 637    |  0.251% |
| 200  | Audino-Mega        |  0.14965% | 551    |  0.159% | 418    |  0.165% |
| 201  | Arceus-Ice         |  0.14662% | 299    |  0.086% | 208    |  0.082% |
| 202  | Klefki             |  0.14444% | 1675   |  0.482% | 1419   |  0.559% |
| 203  | Sableye            |  0.14049% | 1595   |  0.459% | 1210   |  0.476% |
| 204  | Tapu Fini          |  0.13917% | 1980   |  0.570% | 1529   |  0.602% |
| 205  | Beedrill-Mega      |  0.13849% | 4456   |  1.283% | 3297   |  1.298% |
| 206  | Blacephalon        |  0.13798% | 2462   |  0.709% | 1730   |  0.681% |
| 207  | Keldeo             |  0.13708% | 1005   |  0.289% | 749    |  0.295% |
| 208  | Latios-Mega        |  0.13665% | 922    |  0.265% | 673    |  0.265% |
| 209  | Iron Moth          |  0.13304% | 2554   |  0.735% | 1806   |  0.711% |
| 210  | Krookodile         |  0.13168% | 2470   |  0.711% | 1857   |  0.731% |
| 211  | Celesteela         |  0.12888% | 1726   |  0.497% | 1299   |  0.511% |
| 212  | Kommo-o            |  0.12590% | 5208   |  1.500% | 3639   |  1.432% |
| 213  | Arceus-Poison      |  0.12420% | 592    |  0.170% | 443    |  0.174% |
| 214  | Zeraora            |  0.12419% | 3324   |  0.957% | 2315   |  0.911% |
| 215  | Breloom            |  0.12244% | 2495   |  0.718% | 1923   |  0.757% |
| 216  | Arceus-Fire        |  0.12029% | 593    |  0.171% | 446    |  0.176% |
| 217  | Garchomp-Mega      |  0.11952% | 3673   |  1.058% | 2623   |  1.032% |
| 218  | Ampharos-Mega      |  0.11914% | 1637   |  0.471% | 1107   |  0.436% |
| 219  | Latias             |  0.11534% | 1015   |  0.292% | 748    |  0.294% |
| 220  | Sharpedo           |  0.11427% | 776    |  0.223% | 553    |  0.218% |
| 221  | Masquerain         |  0.11326% | 616    |  0.177% | 551    |  0.217% |
| 222  | Togekiss           |  0.11196% | 6352   |  1.829% | 4690   |  1.846% |
| 223  | Kyurem             |  0.11151% | 842    |  0.242% | 591    |  0.233% |
| 224  | Hippowdon          |  0.11061% | 1732   |  0.499% | 1496   |  0.589% |
| 225  | Hoopa-Unbound      |  0.10881% | 1624   |  0.468% | 1155   |  0.455% |
| 226  | Scizor             |  0.10835% | 3241   |  0.933% | 2354   |  0.927% |
| 227  | Durant             |  0.10673% | 1027   |  0.296% | 894    |  0.352% |
| 228  | Pecharunt          |  0.10488% | 1372   |  0.395% | 991    |  0.390% |
| 229  | Umbreon            |  0.10341% | 3890   |  1.120% | 2808   |  1.105% |
| 230  | Regice             |  0.10162% | 985    |  0.284% | 660    |  0.260% |
| 231  | Azumarill          |  0.10070% | 3990   |  1.149% | 3067   |  1.207% |
| 232  | Iron Boulder       |  0.10039% | 1175   |  0.338% | 813    |  0.320% |

Drops :
-

Rises :
- rise from Ubers UU.
- , rise from Ubers UUBL.

Also tagging Runo to update the OP with the new changes.

Edit : Oops I forgor about 3 month averaging, mb.

 

[Runo]

So I did this to see what changed with the July usage stats :

Also tagging Runo to update the OP with the new changes.

Hi, usage stats for July are averaged from a 3-month period so this is slightly inaccurate.

Real stats:

1     Groudon-Primal         55.76852%
2     Yveltal                39.18681%
3     Necrozma-Dusk-Mane     31.66004%
4     Zacian-Crowned         28.40907%
5     Ho-Oh                  27.57158%
6     Zygarde                25.23237%
7     Arceus                 23.29785%
8     Kyogre-Primal          21.87335%
9     Marshadow              21.55058%
10     Eternatus              18.29918%
11     Arceus-Fairy           10.70869%
12     Arceus-Ground          10.67706%
13     Giratina-Origin        9.68800%
14     Salamence-Mega         9.53557%
15     Calyrex-Ice            8.63178%
16     Rayquaza               8.16000%
17     Arceus-Dark            7.77014%
18     Deoxys-Attack          7.66656%
19     Mewtwo-Mega-Y          7.14213%
20     Ditto                  6.63816%
21     Melmetal               6.54000%
22     Lunala                 6.11577%
23     Smeargle               5.33477%
24     Glimmora               5.09280%
25     Chansey                4.85376%
26     Dondozo                4.61220%
----------------Cutoff---------------------
27     Deoxys-Speed           4.23932%
28     Hatterene              4.10612%
29     Shuckle                4.06814%
30     Kyogre                 3.86877%
31     Lugia                  3.79232%
32     Kyurem-Black           3.77227%
33     Kingambit              3.59589%
34     Chien-Pao              3.37261%
35     Ferrothorn             3.24562%
36     Pheromosa              3.13953%
37     Alomomola              2.73751%
38     Arceus-Water           2.73213%
39     Tapu Lele              2.71998%
40     Palkia-Origin          2.70375%
41     Lucario-Mega           2.69009%
42     Basculegion            2.61367%
43     Terapagos              2.54319%
44     Gholdengo              2.41125%
45     Mewtwo-Mega-X          2.35846%
46     Giratina               2.35601%
47     Flutter Mane           2.22922%
48     Grimmsnarl             2.20207%
49     Regieleki              2.19407%
50     Kangaskhan-Mega        2.17113%
51     Darmanitan-Galar       2.16741%
52     Kyurem-White           2.13157%
53     Cresselia              2.09696%
54     Dracovish              2.06978%
55     Necrozma-Dawn-Wings     2.03008%
56     Diancie-Mega           1.98454%
57     Mewtwo                 1.94367%
58     Metagross-Mega         1.92042%
59     Chi-Yu                 1.89855%
60     Zekrom                 1.82043%
61     Landorus-Therian       1.63675%
62     Zamazenta-Crowned      1.59682%
63     Dialga-Origin          1.59088%
64     Ribombee               1.58484%
65     Magearna               1.57695%
66     Blastoise-Mega         1.54316%
67     Ursaluna-Bloodmoon     1.48992%
68     Blaziken-Mega          1.46802%
69     Landorus               1.30965%
70     Shaymin-Sky            1.29681%
71     Dragapult              1.28848%
72     Garganacl              1.23706%
73     Arceus-Ghost           1.23649%
74     Gliscor                1.21779%
75     Alakazam-Mega          1.21345%
76     Dialga                 1.12245%
77     Groudon                1.06654%
78     Toxapex                1.01441%
79     Arceus-Electric        1.00558%
80     Dragonite              0.98764%
81     Slurpuff               0.98483%
82     Tapu Koko              0.98399%
83     Genesect               0.97479%
84     Sableye-Mega           0.94539%
85     Blissey                0.93229%
86     Annihilape             0.92592%
87     Banette-Mega           0.90137%
88     Urshifu                0.89980%
89     Skeledirge             0.86678%
90     Cyclizar               0.86104%
91     Naganadel              0.84559%
92     Palafin                0.84153%
93     Excadrill              0.77967%
94     Clodsire               0.75550%
95     Palkia                 0.74592%
96     Iron Bundle            0.72839%
97     Galvantula             0.72820%
98     Charizard-Mega-X       0.70544%
99     Solgaleo               0.70276%
100     Gengar                 0.69616%

Rise:
From Ubers UUBL to Ubers -
From Ubers UU to Ubers -

Drop:
From Ubers to Ubers UU -

 

[JustCallMeFish]

The HO tier gains another HO lead

 

[Runo]

We have a viability list now, just in time for NDOTSL.

Slate can be viewed here

 

[Nyx]

Is there any chance the PS! teambuilder can remove the Ubers/banned mons from the builder similar to regular UUbers? Just makes teambuilding easier

 

[Runo]

Arceus-Water is banned from National Dex Ubers UU via council vote.


​

Slate 5	Runo	Xurkiyee	Zrp200	Outcome
Arceus-Water​	Ban​	Ban​	Ban​	Banned​

Arceus-Water is a Pokemon with a fantastic defensive profile capable of checking powerful wallbreakers like Galarian Darmanitan, Groudon, and Arceus-Fire. However its defensive profile is also what gets it in trouble since it's insanely hard to beat after it sets up with Calm Mind. Oftentimes threats such as Ferrothorn and Arceus-Grass are used as a stop-gap but they are easily invalidated after Arceus-Water terastalizes, same can also be said for Dragon Tail users such as Bulky Groudon, Giratina, and Defensive Arceus-Water who all get shut down by Tera Fairy. Toxic users such as Blissey and Toxapex were also unable to beat Arceus-Water due to it easily being able to pack Taunt or Refresh to invalidate them. Toxic Palkia-Origin was another option to overcome Taunt Arceus-Water, but Refresh variants could still get the best of it or Tera Steel or Poison could just avoid the issue altogether. It also ran the risk of losing to due to unlucky speed-ties. Water Immune users such as Clodsire and Ogerpon-Wellspring could effectively sit on Arceus-Water but they were either incredibly passive or were hard to justify on teams (Wellspring kinda sucks otherwise). In both cases, they could be overwhelmed by Will-o-Wisp from other Arceus-Water variants.

Also some other things to be on the look out for:


Sun teams are probably broken but we can't really hone down what route we want to go down. Groudon enables a ton of sun breakers such as Reshiram and Arceus-Fire but it alone can't really be considered a "broken" Pokemon. Banning it would probably be the easiest solution but there's no guarantee that the playstyle won't just bounce back with a different setter. Attempting to tackle the abusers could be better long term but it's slower paced.

(Fire)
Basically the same sets that got it in trouble in SV Ubers UU, but it was largely overshadowed by Arceus-Water (and the fact Arceus-Water also checked it very easily) so it might get overwhelming post ban.

 

[veti]

Preban NDOTSL combined usage

Spoiler

Ubers UU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Arceus-Water | 12 | 50.00% | 58.33% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 7 | 29.17% | 85.71% |
| 2 | Magearna | 7 | 29.17% | 71.43% |
| 4 | Pheromosa | 6 | 25.00% | 66.67% |
| 4 | Toxapex | 6 | 25.00% | 66.67% |
| 4 | Groudon | 6 | 25.00% | 0.00% |
| 7 | Arceus-Dragon | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 8 | Gholdengo | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 8 | Mewtwo | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Blastoise | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Terapagos | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 13 | Lucario | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Gliscor | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Ferrothorn | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Arceus-Fire | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Chien-Pao | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Blissey | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Tapu Lele | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Deoxys | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Sneasler | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Hatterene | 3 | 12.50% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Regieleki | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Darmanitan-Galar | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Spectrier | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Ting-Lu | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Ribombee | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Victini | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Naganadel | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Reshiram | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Kingambit | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Corviknight | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Kyurem-White | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Espathra | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Mamoswine | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Scizor | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Landorus | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Arceus-Grass | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Dialga | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Latias | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Iron Valiant | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Kangaskhan | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Amoonguss | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Kartana | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Roaring Moon | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Banette | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Ogerpon-Wellspring | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Metagross | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Palkia-Origin | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Dracovish | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Cresselia | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Pelipper | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Cyclizar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Walking Wake | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Ogerpon-Hearthflame | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Skarmory | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Lopunny | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |

Quick Notes:
- There was no reason to not use waterceus so its relatively low usage was surprising.
- Groudon had a very bad performance, being brought 6 games and losing all 6, it was definitely not the best Ground in the tier. Landorus-Therian had an 85% winrate and higher usage, while Gliscor, Landorus-Incarnate, and Ting-Lu also performed well. Swap Groudon and Landorus-T on the viability list please.
- Toxapex and Magearna have cemented their place as bulky offence / balance staples while Pheromosa is the tiers #1 spinner.
- Psychic Terrain and Blastoise turned out to be fraudulent.
- Gholdengo, and hazard stack in general, is Good as Gold.

 

[Zrp200]

Preban NDOTSL combined usage

Spoiler

Ubers UU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Arceus-Water | 12 | 50.00% | 58.33% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 7 | 29.17% | 85.71% |
| 2 | Magearna | 7 | 29.17% | 71.43% |
| 4 | Pheromosa | 6 | 25.00% | 66.67% |
| 4 | Toxapex | 6 | 25.00% | 66.67% |
| 4 | Groudon | 6 | 25.00% | 0.00% |
| 7 | Arceus-Dragon | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 8 | Gholdengo | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 8 | Mewtwo | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Blastoise | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Terapagos | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 13 | Lucario | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Gliscor | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Ferrothorn | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Arceus-Fire | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Chien-Pao | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Blissey | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Tapu Lele | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Deoxys | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Sneasler | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Hatterene | 3 | 12.50% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Regieleki | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Darmanitan-Galar | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Spectrier | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Ting-Lu | 2 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23 | Ribombee | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Victini | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Naganadel | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Reshiram | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Kingambit | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 23 | Corviknight | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Kyurem-White | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Espathra | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Mamoswine | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Scizor | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Landorus | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Arceus-Grass | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Dialga | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Latias | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Iron Valiant | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Kangaskhan | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Amoonguss | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Kartana | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Roaring Moon | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Banette | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Ogerpon-Wellspring | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Metagross | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Palkia-Origin | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Dracovish | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Cresselia | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Pelipper | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Cyclizar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Walking Wake | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Ogerpon-Hearthflame | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Skarmory | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Lopunny | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |

Quick Notes:
- There was no reason to not use waterceus so its relatively low usage was surprising.
- Groudon had a very bad performance, being brought 6 games and losing all 6, it was definitely not the best Ground in the tier. Landorus-Therian had an 85% winrate and higher usage, while Gliscor, Landorus-Incarnate, and Ting-Lu also performed well. Swap Groudon and Landorus-T on the viability list please.
- Toxapex and Magearna have cemented their place as bulky offence / balance staples while Pheromosa is the tiers #1 spinner.
- Psychic Terrain and Blastoise turned out to be fraudulent.
- Gholdengo, and hazard stack in general, is Good as Gold.

There's no point in including this. The sample size is too small to make any generalizations at all. You'd need at least 30 games to be able to do that in any capacity, and 60 to make generalizations off of winrate.

I would advise anyone reading to completely ignore stuff like this.

 

[Zrp200]

Figured I'd actually give my thoughts instead of shutting down discussion

Meta shifts​

There's no doubt that the ban on arceus-water is going to change the meta.
That said.... it's more that it's just gone, so basically anything that hated taunt or a fast, bulky water-type with recovery stands to gain.

Shift away from Arceus-Grass toward Arceus-Fire​

It seems to be that will be the next big Arceus forme along with . It's possible we might see support or cm , but I suppose we'll see about that.
The only real drawback to vs waterceus is its weakness to Ground that worsens its ability to check stuff like in exchange for being overall better into Freeze Dry users like . Meanwhile, it still resists Ice, and its Fire-type coverage is strengthened by sun to a degree where it can force switches easily.

lost a major niche in checking and definitely will not appreciate the increased viability of Fire-types even as the actual offensive coverage of Grass gets even worse. The only actual useful interactions it has left are against the Grounds, but I doubt this is truly worth it anymore.

Sun​

I'm kind of worried about sun now. While didn't necessarily hinder it a whole lot due to possessing and possibly , its presence, bulk, speed, and dominant cm sets had a real effect on teambuilding for it.

in particular should have much more set diversity now due to no longer needing to worry a great deal about its actual Grass coverage's power and possibly even giving it the ability to drop it entirely for additional moves like Play Rough to hit the actual Fire resists in dragons.

itself may show itself to be a bit more versatile now that it doesn't have to contend with strongly desiring to tera such that it can check setup 720bst water-types with taunt and recovery. The existing tera water/tera dragon sets are still useful for rain and dracovish/palafin/walking wake generally, but I expect we'll get to see more tera fire to get it to make more use of sun itself.

More generic abusers like (last one's rank is pending) are going to appreciate its absence in a meta poised to even further promote Fire- and (weak to dragon) Dragon-types easily overwhelmed or otherwise removed by their STAB moves or coverage.

Forgotten Pokemon​

So it turns out we never ranked a few Pokemon in the viability list due to a misconception that every viable Pokemon ended up getting used in the initial NDUUbers tournament.

I will discuss these in a completely imbalanced manner.

Spectrier​

Predicted Rank: High

sample set: choice specs

Spectrier @ Choice Specs
Ability: Grim Neigh
EVs: 96 Def / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Tera Type: Fighting / Ghost
- Shadow Ball
- Tera Blast / Draining Kiss
- Psychic / Hex / Dark Pulse / Draining Kiss
- Will-O-Wisp / Psychic / Dark Pulse / Draining Kiss

explanation

• Tera Blast with Tera Fighting can flip the matchups and otherwise thwart Pokemon using Tera Dark or Tera Normal to try to stop it.
  • Draining Kiss enables Spectrier to heal off hazard chip on predicted switches and otherwise provides coverage into Dark-type Pokemon, though it's definitely pretty weak.
• Psychic provides nice coverage into Poison types and does an acceptable amount of damage to neutral targets.
  • Hex is absolutely nuclear when boosted, beating out Tera Ghost Shadow Ball, though setting it up can require specific support outside of hitting specific targets like . When given that support, though, Spectrier easily breaks through any neutral target at +0 and gets the ability to OHKO Pokemon like after extremely minimal chip at +0, making kickstarting a snowball extremely easy even without considering Tera, making it easier to justify putting Tera elsewhere. Putting Tera Ghost on this can let Spectrier completely obliterate statused on top of physdef without needing boosts, and it's also sufficient to let it break through . The prospect of taking boosted hex while statused is a nightmare.
  • Dark Pulse can ease prediction into Psychic- and Ghost- types like when there are Normal-type Pokemon around and retains offensive properties of Ghost coverage.
• Will-O-Wisp is nice for forcing status on predicted switches, especially if it picks up , otherwise other coverage can fit here.
• 96 Def takes Icicle Crash from full, avoids an OHKO roll from Triple Axel, and prevents Iron Head from OHKOing after a two layers of Spikes for a minor drop in offensive power.
• Tera Fighting flips the matchup, preventing it from easily revenge killing with Sucker Punch regardless of Supreme Overlord, item, or Tera while also preventing non-Choice Band from OHKOing with any move. Tera Blast also does a good amount to , allowing Spectrier to break through with minor chip damage.
• Tera Ghost has the highest ceiling. Shadow Ball after Tera is capable of sweeping through the vast majority of neutral targets after getting +1 from a revenge kill, and the +0 one is able to get 2HKOs against almost every target. Tera Ghost boosted Hex is able to oneshot status'd as well as every non-specially defensive target, making it trivial to sweep once set up. I could compile a list, but this post is getting long as is.

A reminder that unlike SV Ubers UU, this metagame does not have Arceus-Dark.
In hindsight, I'm not sure why this wasn't brought originally, but every time it's been brought thus far in NDOTSL it's had a splashy win with Tera Ghost Choice Specs:

• https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexubersuu-787577?p2&turn=29
  Spectrier wins on the spot by sniping after the only countermeasure in is invalidated.
• https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubersuu-2192493631?turn=15
  Spectrier revenge kills from full and immediately OHKOes 4 mons in succession, running away with the game and showing what happens when there are no Ghost-resistant Pokemon opposing it.

130 Speed, shockingly, has become a usable speed tier outside of the Chien-Pao matchup.
Its bulk manages to take most non-super effective hits from full, and it can even EV to take Icicle Crash from as well, letting a well-played Spectrier able to almost always at minimum trade in a given game.

Ghost is incredibly lightly resisted in this metagame, with only a few Dark-types in and the rare and the only real Normals being and maybe . Outside of the first two mentioned, none of these are particularly splashable on teams.

Pairing it with status looks promising due to there being no shortage of good status spreaders, and doing this lets it using the much more desirable 130 BP Hex to simulate being Calyrex-S.

We haven't even gotten into concepts like Tera Fighting Tera Blast to completely blast through , or other sets like Subplot and possibly Choice Scarf that are sure to be effective.

Gouging Fire​

Expected Ranking: Mid/High

Gouging Fire is pretty dumb in OU-based tiers.

However, here, we have Groudon. With Groudon we have sun without seriously trying. With sun, we can use Gouging Fire with actual items and use its ability. That's terrifying.
Considering as well that almost every Fire-resistant option is weak to either Ground or Dragon, and Gouging Fire is well equipped to do some serious damage in this metagame.
This thing also happens to completely dumpster regardless of set and otherwise enters easily into various Fire-type moves, which can give this a decent amount of ability to switch in in a given game.

some calcs I found interesting

+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 297-349 (98.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dragon: 440-518 (99 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Z moves setups look promising:
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Devastating Drake (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 648-764 (128.5 - 151.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Devastating Drake (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Guarenteed after Stealth Rock)
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Devastating Drake (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 424-501 (89.8 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Choice Band should also be fine, though Flare Blitz > Heat Crash is probably the call.

 

[Patar136]

Why exactly is Shaymin-Sky UUBL for Ubers. It can't be that strong when there are a lot of things that naturally destroy it in battle. Must be something I am not seeing here.

 

[JustCallMeFish]

Why exactly is Shaymin-Sky UUBL for Ubers. It can't be that strong when there are a lot of things that naturally destroy it in battle. Must be something I am not seeing here.

Luck potential is the main thing, it shuts down a lot of counterplay by simply clicking it's stab which makes it likelier for you to not hit it than to do

 

[Zrp200]

Why exactly is Shaymin-Sky UUBL for Ubers. It can't be that strong when there are a lot of things that naturally destroy it in battle. Must be something I am not seeing here.

Bullshit mon too good at doing bullshit. All of those mons actually lose to shaymin-s.

 

[Zrp200]

Tier Shifts and Tiering Actions for October 2024​

All legality changes:

Ubers → Ubers UU​	Giratina-O
Ubers → Ubers UUBL​	Rayquaza
Ubers UU → Ubers​	Deoxys-S Lugia
Ubers UU → Ubers UUBL​	Arceus-Fire

Tagging Marty dhelmise to implement.

Shifts​

averaged usage stats

Rank	Pokémon	Usage Percentage
1	Groudon-Primal	53.067%
2	Necrozma-Dusk-Mane	37.931%
3	Ho-Oh	28.607%
4	Zacian-Crowned	24.973%
5	Zygarde	24.236%
6	Marshadow	24.156%
7	Yveltal	23.120%
8	Arceus	23.059%
9	Deoxys-Attack	21.047%
10	Arceus-Ground	19.512%
11	Arceus-Dark	9.881%
12	Eternatus	9.880%
13	Glimmora	9.006%
14	Mewtwo-Mega-Y	8.909%
15	Dondozo	8.895%
16	Hatterene	8.692%
17	Smeargle	8.461%
18	Kyogre-Primal	8.153%
19	Calyrex-Ice	7.876%
20	Arceus-Fairy	6.874%
21	Ditto	5.915%
22	Salamence-Mega	5.900%
23	Chansey	5.780%
24	Lugia	5.316%
25	Kyogre	5.326%
26	Deoxys-Speed	4.653%
27	Melmetal	4.635%
​	-------- cutoff --------​	​
28	Kingambit	4.505%
29	Mewtwo	4.456%
30	Rayquaza	4.302%
31	Garganacl	4.113%
32	Giratina-Origin	4.097%

We can spend all day trying to process the unfortunate sequence of events that has brought ladder so low to value Lugia over either Giratina-O or Rayquaza, but at the end of the day, we have lost and, even more bafflingly, gained .

Perhaps this is a sign that we need to retake the National Dex Ubers ladder with actually good teams. Until then, we have to deal with the fallout.

Bans​

As a result of these deeply unnerving shifts (and NDOTSL), the council has decided to hold a quick ban slate.

Slate 6​	Runo​	Xurkiyee​	Zrp200​	Outcome​
Arceus-Fire ​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​
Rayquaza ​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​

is getting banned immediately. Sorry not sorry, no Tera Flying Dragon Ascent or Tera Fire V-Create OHKOing allowed in this no-fun zone called a tier.
More seriously, it is impossible to handle Rayquaza. Not does Rayquaza possesses ample means of OHKOing the entire tier with minimal or even no setup, but it has ample set variety to confound any attempts at consistent counterplay against it. It would surely wrap the tier around it while losing absolutely none of its set variety or dangerousness.

Deep dive into this

• Dragon Dance sets with Tera Flying are well-situated to destroy any opposing team after a boost. Notably, +1 Life Orb Tera Flying Dragon Ascent will simply remove even the most physically defensive of after a layer of Spikes and obliterate all other variants straight up, while Rayquaza can easily fit coverage like V-Create or Earthquake to prevent Steel-types like from dreaming of checking it. Sash, Heavy-Duty Boots, and Sharp Beak are all totally valid options as well.
• Swords Dance Tera Normal is bound to be a terrifying sweeper, backed by a powerful Dragon Ascent to obliterate "checks" like etc while still being able to fit V-Create to blow those silly Steel types sky-high.
• Choice Band Tera Flying at worst 2HKOes the entire neutral metagame with Dragon Ascent, and 3HKOes Pokemon that resist like . But even if you switch them in, Rayquaza can just use V-Create, which OHKOes every single Steel type. Also comes with U-turn to style against attempts to play around it with the very small pool of mons that would otherwise be able to.
• Choice Band Tera Fire not only hits harder than Tera Flying Dragon Ascent, but it also completely flips Rayquaza's matchups into even considering Tera options on these and moreover just adds insult to injury against your Steel-type "check" and any attempts to burn it. It would probably even see usage on Trick Room; it hits that hard. Sadly, Air Lock prevents V-Create from effortlessly OHKOing physically defensive Groudon, but it still falls after minor chip.
• Mixed sets meanwhile still exist to quickly grab kills against common Dragon types and ruin defensive walls.
• Scarf sets with any of Tera Fire, Tera Flying, and Tera Dragon would be usable to foil arrogant enough to think that they can win against that unrevealed Rayquaza simply because they have a higher Speed stat and a 4x super effective move.

This thing would basically centralize the whole metagame around itself and still not be conventionally checkable by any playstyle.

Arceus-Fire is getting banned for its performance in NDOTSL. It's consistently shown itself to be a very silly setup sweeper with great set variety and very limited counterplay couresty of having STAB Flare Blitz and a plethora of setup options, particularly Dragon Dance, in a metagame where sun is trivially easy to set. Note that this decision was made before we got the tier shifts and did not consider 's impact on the meta.

Updated resources will come soon™

 

[Zrp200]

I will also get around to releasing a role compendium later this week now that its competitive advantage to me is expiring with the end of NDOTSL.