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VGC Need assistance filling a gap

dashopepper

dashopepper

I've had pretty good success with this team against Caly-I, Caly-S, Miraidon and Koriadon; but I figured out a major hole in my team when it comes to Kyogre. I didn't think it was so popular in the current Reg J format but they obliterate me. I was considering a few options for leads like Rillaboom and Ogerpon-WS but Rillaboom can't outspeed max speed Kyogre and Ogerpon struggles to 1-shot. The spot on my team I'm considering replacing is Indeedee-F since I've been getting better support milage out of Clefairy and they are a bit redundant to keep both. Is the strategy to go with Rillaboom or Ogerpon and just stall 1 turn for a 2HKO? I can switch Magearna to a more SpD focus with water tera to survive turn 1 potentially as well. Let me know what you think, I'm really new to the VGC and Showdown scene and appreciate any assistance I can get.

Magearna @ Mental Herb
Ability: Soul-Heart
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Flash Cannon

Calyrex-Ice @ Clear Amulet
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
- Protect
- Trick Room

Indeedee-F @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 84 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Helping Hand
- Life Dew

Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blood Moon
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Vacuum Wave
 
Oh and Lunala isn't terrible to deal with but without taunt I don't have a great way of dealing with wide-guard spam. Or maybe I'm missing an easy move change to deal with it.
 
So far the best counter I've crafted that fits the support role is wellspring. it outspeeds timid/max speed Kyogre with mystic water by 1 and 1-shots with wood hammer (1 shotting with horn leech doesn't seem possible without tera.)

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Wood Hammer
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield
 
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Hm. Well we kinda need descriptions for one. But I'm leaning dark tera indeedee, for prankster taunt. You really need to set tr if you're fully slow mons, and reg taunt without prankster should still be rare ish.

Also, ursaluna bm always can do better evs than max hp, this is due to a VERY high base hp relative to SpD. Av esp likes most of the 252 hp in SpD.
 
Omastar68 said:
Hm. Well we kinda need descriptions for one. But I'm leaning dark tera indeedee, for prankster taunt. You really need to set tr if you're fully slow mons, and reg taunt without prankster should still be rare ish.

Also, ursaluna bm always can do better evs than max hp, this is due to a VERY high base hp relative to SpD. Av esp likes most of the 252 hp in SpD.
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You're speaking to the Lunala counter? My bigger problem atm is Kyogre, which I wasn't expecting to see so much in the ladder.

If my Usraluna-BM evs are aren't great I'll definitely fix those.
 
dashopepper said:
You're speaking to the Lunala counter? My bigger problem atm is Kyogre, which I wasn't expecting to see so much in the ladder.

If my Usraluna-BM evs are aren't great I'll definitely fix those.
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Oh sorry neither-im speaking to setting tr better. Well now I'm seeing you have mental herb mag. That might be ok, IDK. Dark should be fine though, indeedee isn't going for gleam too


Great! I'll think on those two, Kyogre esp. idk if I'm much help really but oh well.

Edit: for ogre I'd look to put an SE move for it on either legend. Steel fairy is your STAB, but isn't great. High horsepower is nice, but ursa might provide enough ground, idk. Even losing one protect could be ok.
 
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I've been mostly successful in setting up TR with either Magearna or Caly-I with either Indeedee-F or Clefairy as my lead with them, but I'll take any advice since I'm new. I'm testing subbing out Indeedee-F with Ogerpon-WS right now as a counter to Kyogre and I'll see how it goes.
 
dashopepper said:
I've been mostly successful in setting up TR with either Magearna or Caly-I with either Indeedee-F or Clefairy as my lead with them, but I'll take any advice since I'm new. I'm testing subbing out Indeedee-F with Ogerpon-WS right now as a counter to Kyogre and I'll see how it goes.
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That sounds valid. There is no psyspam, and two other trs. I think indeedee can go, upon reflection, regardless of if you like oger w.

Edit: why was it helmet though? That's kinda odd on a frail non healer, I think
 
Omastar68 said:
That sounds valid. There is no psyspam, and two other trs. I think indeedee can go, upon reflection, regardless of if you like oger w.

Edit: why was it helmet though? That's kinda odd on a frail non healer, I think
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I didn't think I was getting great use out of Psychic Seed, and I haven't seen many amoongus lately for safety goggles, but that may have been a bad choice.
 
dashopepper said:
So far the best counter I've crafted that fits the support role is wellspring. it outspeeds timid/max speed Kyogre with mystic water by 1 and 1-shots with wood hammer (1 shotting with horn leech doesn't seem possible without tera.)

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Wood Hammer
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield
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Woah I just looked at this set. What it do? Looks cool, max hp, no atk, and def not SpD(cause mask boost is SpD.) I'm not sure it's good though, since wood hammer not leech bulky, unless it's standard ish.
 
Omastar68 said:
Woah I just looked at this set. What it do? Looks cool, max hp, no atk, and def not SpD(cause mask boost is SpD.) I'm not sure it's good though, since wood hammer not leech bulky, unless it's standard ish.
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It has one job, 1-shot max speed timid Kyogre, which it's done 3 times now fairly well. The reason I dumped SpD is because if I kill the kyogre it's more likely I'm about to take a hit from an Atk mon rather than a SpA mon (this is a guess, I don't actually know if that is true). After that it's a supporter with follow me and Spiky Shield, but I'm tempted to swap out Spiky Shield or Ivy Cudgel for Taunt. So far it's worked pretty well. It also outspeeds that Kyogre by just 1, to move as many EVs to other stats as possible.
 
Ah ok. Do you think ursa av is best? I ask for a couple reasons. 1 it won't solve the SpD by as much as, say, av on king for that money. 2, protect serves extra function on yes(id imagine,) cause of the limitation of bm attack. I'm sure it's fine, but if consider a king and ___ on ursa, just to test.

Edit: would normal be more encouraged on tr? Since you should take less hits potentially, cause actually going first. I'm spitballing, haven't played doubles in forever, so complex. It's just few people make singles rmts for cart, and of those virtually zero are gonna need help from the likes of me xp. I used to be better, partly cause used to actually play. Haven't since May but I digress.
 
Just had a 10 game losing streak after trying several changes. I can't make headway on the showdown ladder. I suck ass. I feel like everyone at the 1100-1200 ladder are pros playing on alts. I keep writing down notes and trying to make it work but then get blasted over and over and over. I'm gonna take a break for awhile.
 
hey! so this team is pretty good, a few small issues I want to point out before getting onto the main problem.

Whilst trick room is an incredibly powerful playstyle and you have some of the best abusers, hard trick room is difficult to pull off in the best of circumstances, and right now most of your team isn't threatening enough to satisfy the overly committal playstyle. The last 3 pokemon on the team, clefairy, kingambit and ursaluna-bloodmoon in the context of reg j are relatively weak in damage output, at least in contrast to other common trick room options in ursaluna regular and torkoal, whilst all being slow.

My suggestion for improvement would be to take a hard trick room approach (which would function in a similar vein to how the current team would function) I would go the combination of torkoal, ursaluna-regular and annihilape, the latter of which running choice scarf with final gambit, such that it can trade one for one on lead whilst giving magearna a +2 boost with soul heart. Other options you could try could be urshifu-rapid or single, smeargle, and a few others, but that route would be the main one.

Onto the main problem of kyogre, each of these would individually improve the match up, ursaluna ohkos kyogre with facade under trick room, torkoal turns off rain with drought, and annihilape can outspeed kyogre and threaten massive damage outside of trick room, and whilst none are a surefire way to ensure victory against kyogre they all improve the match up to some extent. If you still find issues with kyogre, one change you could make which has seen decent success is running tera grass seed bomb calyrex, which both allows a spore immunity from the common partner in amoonguss and allows you to resist water moves and surprise them with an ohko, whilst just changing the tera to something that resists water would go a long way regardless. Considering all these changes one final one I would do is safety goggles indeedee, as without clefairy redirecting spores amoonguiss can be trheatening especially if it teras out of its weakness to torkoal.

this is the sort of route I would go:
Magearna @ Mental Herb
Ability: Soul-Heart
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Flash Cannon

Calyrex-Ice @ Clear Amulet
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Glacial Lance
- Seed Bomb
- Protect
- Trick Room

Indeedee-F @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Weather Ball
- Heat Wave
- Protect

Annihilape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Rage Fist
- U-turn
- Close Combat

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Protect
- Swords Dance

If you have any questions on the sets / changes or any of them dont suit what you want, let me know.
 
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