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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"
- Thread starter gengod
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Um, what are you saying? Stat boosts and decreases only stay if you Baton Pass. Switching and U-turning will reset them.
With the addition of Platinum, Ursaring is now the proud owner of a physical move in nearly every type; indeed, the only types it does not possess are Water, Psychic, and Dragon.
With this in mind, I decided to attempt to make a new Ursaring, one which could take on nearly any adversary.
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant
STONE EDGE
EARTHQUAKE
SEED BOMB/FACADE
SHADOW CLAW
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
Flame Orb is a decent item on any Guts-abuser, but for some reason Ursaring is never assumed to hold it. Anyway, this moveset relies on Ursaring's colossal attack and the 12 types it can hit for super effective. This can be likened to Electivire. However, while Electivire strives to be faster than its foes through the use of its ability, Ursaring hasn't a hope of doing the same, even with Quick feet. Instead it heightens its defences, which are, after all, higher than Starmie's, albeit without Recover, and rampages through the opponent's team before dying of Burn damage.
Stone Edge and Earthquake clock up eight super-effective hits between them. Earthquake is primarily for Rocks and Steels while Stone Edge hits fliers. Seed Bomb in addition hits Ground and Water types, but its primary purpose is to smash any Swampert or Donphan that comes in, as well as Rhyperior and Kabutops should they make a rare appearance.
Lastly, Shadow Claw is to hit any Ghosts daft enough to come in, as well as Psychics like Azelf and Alakazam.
Facade is an option over Seed Bomb to hit things ridiculously hard, and after all it's a shame to waste the most powerful and usable Facade in the game, but that is not really what this set is about.
And finally, a list of alternate moves of every type bar three...
NORMAL: FACADE: Already mentioned.
FIRE: FIRE PUNCH: An option to hit Scizor that try to pick you off with its priority attacks of doom, as well as Skarmory and Bronzong.
WATER: -
GRASS: SEED BOMB: Already mentioned.
ICE: ICE PUNCH: An option to hit Dragons and Bulky Grasses.
ELECTRIC: THUNDERPUNCH: An option over Seed Bomb, doesn't hit Ground types but hits Gyarados for big damage.
FIGHT: CLOSE COMBAT: An option over Earthquake, but lowering defences is not very attractive on a set like this.
POISON: GUNK SHOT: See Ice Punch.
FLYING: AERIAL ACE: For Heracross, Breloom and other fighting-types.
GROUND: EARTHQUAKE: Already mentioned.
ROCK: STONE EDGE: Already mentioned.
GHOST: SHADOW CLAW: Already mentioned.
PSYCHIC: -
BUG: FURY CUTTER: Only really an option for Celebi, except that Aerial Ace and Ice Punch hit it harder. Let's say it's for Exeggutor.
DARK: NIGHT SLASH: See Shadow Claw.
DRAGON: -
STEEL: METAL CLAW: Has a chance to raise attack as well as hitting Rock and Ice types for good damage.
Overall, I think Ursaring is a ridiculously diverse threat and not many people take it that way.
With this in mind, I decided to attempt to make a new Ursaring, one which could take on nearly any adversary.
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant
STONE EDGE
EARTHQUAKE
SEED BOMB/FACADE
SHADOW CLAW
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
Flame Orb is a decent item on any Guts-abuser, but for some reason Ursaring is never assumed to hold it. Anyway, this moveset relies on Ursaring's colossal attack and the 12 types it can hit for super effective. This can be likened to Electivire. However, while Electivire strives to be faster than its foes through the use of its ability, Ursaring hasn't a hope of doing the same, even with Quick feet. Instead it heightens its defences, which are, after all, higher than Starmie's, albeit without Recover, and rampages through the opponent's team before dying of Burn damage.
Stone Edge and Earthquake clock up eight super-effective hits between them. Earthquake is primarily for Rocks and Steels while Stone Edge hits fliers. Seed Bomb in addition hits Ground and Water types, but its primary purpose is to smash any Swampert or Donphan that comes in, as well as Rhyperior and Kabutops should they make a rare appearance.
Lastly, Shadow Claw is to hit any Ghosts daft enough to come in, as well as Psychics like Azelf and Alakazam.
Facade is an option over Seed Bomb to hit things ridiculously hard, and after all it's a shame to waste the most powerful and usable Facade in the game, but that is not really what this set is about.
And finally, a list of alternate moves of every type bar three...
NORMAL: FACADE: Already mentioned.
FIRE: FIRE PUNCH: An option to hit Scizor that try to pick you off with its priority attacks of doom, as well as Skarmory and Bronzong.
WATER: -
GRASS: SEED BOMB: Already mentioned.
ICE: ICE PUNCH: An option to hit Dragons and Bulky Grasses.
ELECTRIC: THUNDERPUNCH: An option over Seed Bomb, doesn't hit Ground types but hits Gyarados for big damage.
FIGHT: CLOSE COMBAT: An option over Earthquake, but lowering defences is not very attractive on a set like this.
POISON: GUNK SHOT: See Ice Punch.
FLYING: AERIAL ACE: For Heracross, Breloom and other fighting-types.
GROUND: EARTHQUAKE: Already mentioned.
ROCK: STONE EDGE: Already mentioned.
GHOST: SHADOW CLAW: Already mentioned.
PSYCHIC: -
BUG: FURY CUTTER: Only really an option for Celebi, except that Aerial Ace and Ice Punch hit it harder. Let's say it's for Exeggutor.
DARK: NIGHT SLASH: See Shadow Claw.
DRAGON: -
STEEL: METAL CLAW: Has a chance to raise attack as well as hitting Rock and Ice types for good damage.
Overall, I think Ursaring is a ridiculously diverse threat and not many people take it that way.
A little something that I've found to be great in the late game.
Jirachi @ Wide Lens
Modest
76 HP/ 180 Spe/ 252 SpAtk.
-Charge Beam
-Doom Desire
-Wish
-Protect
Most people can already see where I'm going with this but here it goes anyway. First of all why the heck would you use any other electric attack when you have Serene Grace AND Charge Beam? That's damage and a free special attack boost every time you hit (with Wide Lens I've only missed once). Ranting aside, after you've gotten a couple of boosts with Charge Beam the fun begins, Future Sight and Doom Desire attack based on the special defense of the opponent on the turn it is used. That means if i use +2 Doom Desire on something with low special defense, and they switch out to something else with better defenses then the poke swapped in gets hit for the damage the first poke would have taken(even Blissey). Wish+Protect help to keep you alive while waiting for Doom Desire to take its toll. Speed outruns 280's by 1 point, threw the rest into HP. It works great with entry hazards. P.S. help with a more efficient EV spread woulld be appreciated.
That looks like a really fun set. Agreeing with Colonel M that Calm Mind would be a better move than Charge Beam. Calm Mind will let you increase your SpD as well as your SpA at the same time, allowing you to live a lot longer and get off more Doom Desires. Since Doom Desire hits everything for neutral Charge Beam provides no coverage at all (apart from like Gyarados).
Why does this thing need Speed? Wish doesn't heal on the same turn and Protect has priority, so no matter if you have 30 Spe or 300 Spe you won't heal any faster. Doom Desire hits at the end of the turn, so speed isn't going to be helping that either. To be honest I think you should scrap the speed EVs altogether and dump it all into HP to help Jirachi last longer.
Like I said I really really like this set. Can't wait to try it out on the ladder. Well done =).
I used to use a Doom Desire Jirachi as follows:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 132 SpA / 136 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Calm Mind
- Doom Desire
- Wish
- Reflect / Iron Defense
136 EVs in speed net 270, enough to outrun Adamant Heracross and Reflect / Iron Defense before he can Close Combat / Megahorn. The HP and special attack EVs are interchangeable depending on your preference of bulk or power (I'm sure I had 240 in HP for a reason). Refect makes Jirachi more of a team player while Iron Defense can be boosted alonside Dragon Dancers / Bulk Uppers / Cursers (read: not SD Lucario).
Meh, just my two cents.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 132 SpA / 136 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Calm Mind
- Doom Desire
- Wish
- Reflect / Iron Defense
136 EVs in speed net 270, enough to outrun Adamant Heracross and Reflect / Iron Defense before he can Close Combat / Megahorn. The HP and special attack EVs are interchangeable depending on your preference of bulk or power (I'm sure I had 240 in HP for a reason). Refect makes Jirachi more of a team player while Iron Defense can be boosted alonside Dragon Dancers / Bulk Uppers / Cursers (read: not SD Lucario).
Meh, just my two cents.
i really dont get the point of some of the moves on the ursaring set a neutral facade hits harder than a super effective earthquake/stone edge/seed bomb/shadow claw
i think something like this would work better
ursaring@flame orb
-facade
-earthquake/close combat
-crunch
-swords dance
after a swords dance it can OHKO every pokemon in the game
i think something like this would work better
ursaring@flame orb
-facade
-earthquake/close combat
-crunch
-swords dance
after a swords dance it can OHKO every pokemon in the game
I don't think it can OHKO Forretress either after a swords dance.
Edit:
Facade vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
49.4%-57.9%
Earthquake vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
47.2%-55.4%
Close Combat vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
56.5%-66.4%
Crunch vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
18.9%-22.0% lol
All damage calculations done after one swords dance.
Edit:
Facade vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
49.4%-57.9%
Earthquake vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
47.2%-55.4%
Close Combat vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
56.5%-66.4%
Crunch vs. 252 HP/96 Def. Forretress:
18.9%-22.0% lol
All damage calculations done after one swords dance.
Look at the person I was replying to.
If Scizor is your last Pokemon, U-Turn won't switch you out, and won't have your stats reset.
Why are we even discussing flame orb ursaring in the "creative" moveset thread? >>
Don't blame latios. Bugmaniac was the one who started it, badly I might add.
I remember hearing DD isn't affected by CM, but I could be wrong.
Doom Desire is a Typeless attack and so it does not get STAB. Also, since it is Typeless, it hits every other type for neutral damage (including Shedinja). The damage dealt by Doom Desire is calculated in the same way as for any other move (i.e. it takes into account buffs to the SpA of the user), but the thing that differentiates it from other attacks is that it uses the SpD and the SpA at the time of selecting the attack to do damage when the attack hits.
Basically, if you use Doom Desire on a Forretress and the opponent switches to a Blissey, when Doom Desire hits it will be as if Blissey has 156 SpD instead of 306 SpD.
Oh, and it cannot crit.
Basically, if you use Doom Desire on a Forretress and the opponent switches to a Blissey, when Doom Desire hits it will be as if Blissey has 156 SpD instead of 306 SpD.
Oh, and it cannot crit.
Dugtrio doesn't learn Taunt.
Thought I saw it on his list, well moving on.
you forgot guts and a +defense nature
name: Lap Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Return / Waterfall
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Naughty / Lonely
evs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 16 SAtk
This is a UU wall breaker.
After 1 DD it helps you by not being walled Blastoise Or Poli.
OHKO on Aggron and a 2HKO on Weezing, Drapion, Probopass, Claydol, Miltank and Leafeon.
Basically, it's a lap dance.
Credit to Seven Deadly Sins~
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Return / Waterfall
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Naughty / Lonely
evs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 16 SAtk
This is a UU wall breaker.
After 1 DD it helps you by not being walled Blastoise Or Poli.
OHKO on Aggron and a 2HKO on Weezing, Drapion, Probopass, Claydol, Miltank and Leafeon.
Basically, it's a lap dance.
Credit to Seven Deadly Sins~
This should convey it better. Crossposted from the Platinum Updates thread.
Lapras' offensive stats and great wallbreaking typing in UU make a mixed DD set very viable. Sheep on Shoddy Battle suggested the set to me, and it's surprisingly good. I've been trying this set out a bit, and it's been fairly effective at doing plenty of damage to opposing teams.
[SET]
name: Mixed Dragon Dancer
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Return / Waterfall
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Naughty / Lonely
evs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 16 SAtk
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Lapras' typing is often looked down upon, but it's actually a blessing in disguise when you're looking at a physical sweeper in UU. This Lapras is meant as a semi-wallbreaker to lure out its common UU counters and dispatch them with ease using its strong STAB special attacks.</p>
<p>Dragon Dance is obvious, as it boosts Lapras' mediocre Speed and Attack while drawing out physical counters. Its physical move is a matter of choice; Return prevents you from being walled entirely from Water-types such as Blastoise and Poliwrath, but Waterfall provides STAB if you want the boosted power.</p>
<p>Hydro Pump with the noted EVs is an exact OHKO on standard 252 HP / 136 SpD Impish Steelix, and is also an OHKO on Aggron and a 2HKO on Weezing, Drapion, Probopass, Claydol, Miltank, and other notable walls. Ice Beam is an easy OHKO on Altaria and Leafeon. It also deals 66.48% - 79.44% to standard 216 HP / 0 SpD Bold Meganium, and 57.95% - 68.75% to the standard 244 HP / 128 SpD Calm Vileplume.</p>
<p>Life Orb and Hydro Pump are required for most of these 2HKOs- Surf requires 156 SpA EVs and a boosting nature to OHKO Steelix, even with a Life Orb, which makes this Lapras rather harmless on the physical side. Naughty Nature gives a more effective distribution of defenses, but Rash lets you take attacks like Thunderbolt from defensive Rotom with a chance of survival. EVs outspeed Max Speed Leafeon and Drapion with a boosting nature after one DD, and Electrode after two.</p>
Lapras' offensive stats and great wallbreaking typing in UU make a mixed DD set very viable. Sheep on Shoddy Battle suggested the set to me, and it's surprisingly good. I've been trying this set out a bit, and it's been fairly effective at doing plenty of damage to opposing teams.
[SET]
name: Mixed Dragon Dancer
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Return / Waterfall
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Naughty / Lonely
evs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 16 SAtk
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Lapras' typing is often looked down upon, but it's actually a blessing in disguise when you're looking at a physical sweeper in UU. This Lapras is meant as a semi-wallbreaker to lure out its common UU counters and dispatch them with ease using its strong STAB special attacks.</p>
<p>Dragon Dance is obvious, as it boosts Lapras' mediocre Speed and Attack while drawing out physical counters. Its physical move is a matter of choice; Return prevents you from being walled entirely from Water-types such as Blastoise and Poliwrath, but Waterfall provides STAB if you want the boosted power.</p>
<p>Hydro Pump with the noted EVs is an exact OHKO on standard 252 HP / 136 SpD Impish Steelix, and is also an OHKO on Aggron and a 2HKO on Weezing, Drapion, Probopass, Claydol, Miltank, and other notable walls. Ice Beam is an easy OHKO on Altaria and Leafeon. It also deals 66.48% - 79.44% to standard 216 HP / 0 SpD Bold Meganium, and 57.95% - 68.75% to the standard 244 HP / 128 SpD Calm Vileplume.</p>
<p>Life Orb and Hydro Pump are required for most of these 2HKOs- Surf requires 156 SpA EVs and a boosting nature to OHKO Steelix, even with a Life Orb, which makes this Lapras rather harmless on the physical side. Naughty Nature gives a more effective distribution of defenses, but Rash lets you take attacks like Thunderbolt from defensive Rotom with a chance of survival. EVs outspeed Max Speed Leafeon and Drapion with a boosting nature after one DD, and Electrode after two.</p>
Scizor@liechi berry
-substitute
-agility
-x-scissor
-iron head/brick break
ability: Swarm
nature: Adamant
evs: 80 Hp, 252 Attack, 176 Speed
This is supposed to work in much the same manner as agility Empoleon. Basically, get Scizor in on something that will switch, agility on the switch. Then sub down to Liechi/swarm activation.
If you choose iron head, you will be hopelessly walled by steel types and fire types, especially Skarmory and Heatran. Brick break will help with Heatran, but then ghosts, notably Rotom-oven, will stop your sweep cold.
Fortunately, steel and ghost types can both be trapped and killed by Magnezone and pursuit users respectively, so this Scizor would love the support.
The EVs given will outspeed timid ScarfTran (and base 90 scarfers) after an agility, but obviously you can take EVs out of HP and put them into Speed if there is some other benchmark you want to reach (notably scarfed base 100s). Make sure to keep your hp divisible by zero though otherwise liechi berry/swarm won't activate at 25% HP.
Right now, this is all theorymon as I have yet to play with it/do any damage calcs. But it seems okay, as it resists priority moves extremespeed, bullet punch and sucker punch. However, I'm worried about the lacking type coverage...
Edit: I just noticed in the counters section that Rotom-a resists iron-head too. There's a reason that it's such a good Scizor counter, I guess...maybe night slash to deal with the ghosts?
-substitute
-agility
-x-scissor
-iron head/brick break
ability: Swarm
nature: Adamant
evs: 80 Hp, 252 Attack, 176 Speed
This is supposed to work in much the same manner as agility Empoleon. Basically, get Scizor in on something that will switch, agility on the switch. Then sub down to Liechi/swarm activation.
If you choose iron head, you will be hopelessly walled by steel types and fire types, especially Skarmory and Heatran. Brick break will help with Heatran, but then ghosts, notably Rotom-oven, will stop your sweep cold.
Fortunately, steel and ghost types can both be trapped and killed by Magnezone and pursuit users respectively, so this Scizor would love the support.
The EVs given will outspeed timid ScarfTran (and base 90 scarfers) after an agility, but obviously you can take EVs out of HP and put them into Speed if there is some other benchmark you want to reach (notably scarfed base 100s). Make sure to keep your hp divisible by zero though otherwise liechi berry/swarm won't activate at 25% HP.
Right now, this is all theorymon as I have yet to play with it/do any damage calcs. But it seems okay, as it resists priority moves extremespeed, bullet punch and sucker punch. However, I'm worried about the lacking type coverage...
Edit: I just noticed in the counters section that Rotom-a resists iron-head too. There's a reason that it's such a good Scizor counter, I guess...maybe night slash to deal with the ghosts?
brick break is overall the best type coverage, losing out only to flying, ghost, bug and poison. heracross/zapdos/rotoms+gar/mence/yanmega+jask/gyara/ resist this set, and even then swarmed leichi max attack xscissor is fucking cheesy stuff
pair it with zapdos for the beatdown of flying pokemon that resist it and stopping bulky waters from being annoying for a roostless scizor, and maybe tar for ghosts/opposing zapdos
cool set
pair it with zapdos for the beatdown of flying pokemon that resist it and stopping bulky waters from being annoying for a roostless scizor, and maybe tar for ghosts/opposing zapdos
cool set
Only downside is the fact Doom Desire only has 8 PP maximum, which makes a set with Doom Desire being your only offensive option very risky.
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