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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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umbarsc, it's a bad option because you obviously are surviving a water attack to potentially set up. This isn't to say that you will never set up without using your berry, but when you do (most of the time) You survive at like 25%. I'd rather last longer then do so much damage.

And can you very nicely in form me how CB Infernape beats Starmie. You're outspeed and can't 1HKO.

505 Atk vs 361 Def & 404 HP (75 Base Power): 152 - 180 (37.62% - 44.55%). That's Choice Band Infernape using Thunderpunch against Suicune. Adamant Nature. How exactly do you beat Suicune again?

I'll add more calcs later, but please don't make claims like that when they are false. CB Ape plays a lot differently as well compared to this set
 
But some starmies carry psychic around, and infernape can be beaten not just by water but also by other common stuff.So the berry won't work well
 
1234gjy said:
But some starmies carry psychic around, and infernape can be beaten not just by water but also by other common stuff.So the berry won't work well
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The Starmie point is very true. However, the whole point isn't just to beat Starmie. The good part about the Water Resist berry is that it is the move that has been used on my infernape every single time in all my battles (12/12). Until that changes, it's very valid. You'd have to be aware of exactly what they are running.
 
dpmfa485.png
@Leftovers/Shed Shell
Modest
208 hp, 200 speed, 100 spA
Flash Fire
-Taunt
-Toxic
-Earth Power/Stealth Rock
-Lava Plume/Flamethrower/Fire Blast

I guess this is sort of a variation on tauntran, I don't really know what to call it but I've used it with moderate success and most people don't expect it. The EVs allow you to survive a Life Orb Focus Blast from max spA Timid Gengar, 100% of the time, while 200 speed EVs allows you to outrun max speed adamant breloom and metagross. Taunt is here to shut down walls or baton passers, while Toxic allows you to break them down afterwards, or anything else that may switch in. You can use Lava Plume as your main attacking move if you want to try and get lucky with the burn rate, but you're probably better off using toxic on whatever switches in rather than relying on a 30% chance. Because of this set's bulkiness it's good for setting up stealth rock, but you'll lose coverage against Tentacruel and other Heatran which is why Earth Power is listed as another option.

You could move more EVs into HP or defenses if you want to, the 100 spA EVs are only here to make Heatran more of an offensive threat.

Leftovers is recommended but Shed Shell is also good if you fear Dugtrio.
 
moi said:
T The good part about the Water Resist berry is that it is the move that has been used on my infernape every single time in all my battles (12/12). Until that changes, it's very valid. You'd have to be aware of exactly what they are running.
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You keep track of your battles!!? And you only had 12??!
 
res a pokemon i used on my uber team that made it to 2nd on the ladder before i quit ubers (also before everyone started using that dialga that uses SR first turn)

Mewtwo @ focus sash
hasty 40 Atk / 216 Spe / 252 Spa
self destruct
ice beam/flamethrower
thunder
aura sphere

the plan is to kill one counter with its amazing type coverage and then blow up on whatever comes in afterwards.
aura sphere gets darkrai/dailga.
ice beam gets groudon/lugia (into KO range for selfdestruct)
flamethrower gets scizor/metagross and groudon to an extent
thunder 2HKO's kyogre which will kill him because of sash.
self destruct badly damages lugia and grouudon and pretty much kills every not steel.

this pretty much guarantees one kill, usually a steel type. After riding the opposing team of a steel type DD/SD rayquaza has a much easier time sweeping.
 
Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/5 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Punch/ Toxic/ Yawn
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Encore
---

I always thought that Wobbuffet and Quagsire were brothers to some degree. We have JollyWobb and now here is JollySire! This is my new lead for UU and I believe that he has been very successful. 252Hp EV's for "Bulk" and Max Speed to catch walls off-guard. Even when and if they figure out the plan you can almost guarentee forcing alot of switches. Wish/ Heal Bell support helps but not neccessary. Ice + Ground combo is standard. But if you dislike Claydoll switching in to ruin your fun throw Toxic into the mix to mess him up. Otherwise, Yawn + Protect is always fun.
 
1234gjy said:
You keep track of your battles!!? And you only had 12??!
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hahahaha. No, that was to the situations I've been in against Starmie with this Ape and the amount of times it's used surf.

So it's like this

Amount of times to surf/Amount of times it has attacked

12/12 being the amount of times i've been against a starmie and it used surf, so 100%

(and yeah i like to keep track while testing)
 
The below set hasn't been tested, it's just a theory right now...


Magmortar: Anti-Lead
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
Nature: Mild
EVs: 172 Spe, 252 SpA, 84 Atk (?)
-Mach Punch
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt/HP Ice
-Will-O-Wisp

A common overlook of Magmortar often misses its above average attack stat. I just took the EVs from the dex (lol) , but they are meant to OHKO Weavile with Mach Punch which I'm pretty sure they do. They also let you outspeed Jolly Tyranitar so you can burn it first! Flamethrower and Thunderbolt have relatively good coverage, but HP Ice can hurt dragons. Flamethrower is more reliable, but less power than Fire Blast. Thunderbolt obviously hurts bulky waters that are coming in. WoW can ware down walls and such aswell as crippling incoming physical attackers that don't expect it. Life Orb gives you a lot of power, but Focus Sash can let you get in that second hit to 2HKO.

Please comment and post suggestions! Better EV spreads are most welcome.
 
moi said:
umbarsc, it's a bad option because you obviously are surviving a water attack to potentially set up. This isn't to say that you will never set up without using your berry, but when you do (most of the time) You survive at like 25%. I'd rather last longer then do so much damage.
Click to expand...

Without Flare Blitz you are walled by nearly any physical wall they throw at you. Pokemon that normally lose to any Ape (Gliscor, Skarmory, etc.) can come in with little threat at all. Infernape only took 50% from Milotic, which has a rather nice SpA stat.

And can you very nicely in form me how CB Infernape beats Starmie. You're outspeed and can't 1HKO.
Click to expand...

Can you provide the calcs to prove this please? I'm fairly certain that it can, but I may have been playing against standard Starmie or offensive Starmie, not ultra-defensive Starmie (ones that outspeed Infernape, mind you). In any case, Starmie will take massive damage from U-turn which will allow you to send something that will force it out, effectively eliminating it from the battle, especially if you send in a faster Pursuiter.

505 Atk vs 361 Def & 404 HP (75 Base Power): 152 - 180 (37.62% - 44.55%). That's Choice Band Infernape using Thunderpunch against Suicune. Adamant Nature. How exactly do you beat Suicune again?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should try running calcs for Close Combat, which outdamages ThunderPunch?

Anyways, I have another set to post.

dpmfb244.png

"Defensive Calm Minder"
Entei @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Reflect
- Calm Mind
- Lava Plume
- Hidden Power Ground

Note that this is pure theory, and also note that this is meant for the Suspect Ladder (where Garchomp isn't around to ruin its fun).

The idea behind this set is to boost with Calm Minds while protecting its Defense with Reflect. A variation of this set is in the analysis, but this is much more specialized and defensive. The EVs are actually more specialized than they appear. 36 EVs allows you to outspeed standard SpecsTran (Modest Nature, 216 Spe), allowing you to win if you Calm Mind on the switch.

Max Defense and a Bold Nature with all of those EVs may seem overkill, but after running some calcs I realized they were necessary to allow it to counter MixApe properly. Even with Stealth Rocks up, this EV spread allows Entei to always survive two Close Combats and KO back with HP Ground 100% of the time with defense drops. Of course, that is not entirely the purpose of this set, so I am considering shifting some EVs into SpD.
 
MetaNite said:
The below set hasn't been tested, it's just a theory right now...


Magmortar: Anti-Lead
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
Nature: Mild
EVs: 172 Spe, 252 SpA, 84 Atk (?)
-Mach Punch
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt/HP Ice
-Will-O-Wisp

A common overlook of Magmortar often misses its above average attack stat. I just took the EVs from the dex (lol) , but they are meant to OHKO Weavile with Mach Punch which I'm pretty sure they do. They also let you outspeed Jolly Tyranitar so you can burn it first! Flamethrower and Thunderbolt have relatively good coverage, but HP Ice can hurt dragons. Flamethrower is more reliable, but less power than Fire Blast. Thunderbolt obviously hurts bulky waters that are coming in. WoW can ware down walls and such aswell as crippling incoming physical attackers that don't expect it. Life Orb gives you a lot of power, but Focus Sash can let you get in that second hit to 2HKO.

Please comment and post suggestions! Better EV spreads are most welcome.
Click to expand...

You could possibly put more speed on this Magmortar as its' speed EVs put it at 245 Spd. which is okay but Aerodactyl could cause problems especially the Choice Scarf version, max spd.?
 
Even with Max spe it doesn't outspeed Aerodactyl, unless it has scarf.
You can't beat Aero if it has a focus sash, unfortunately unless you yourself carries one.
 
It's been done before, I recall Deck Knight posted a very similar set, but it's a cool set though.
 
If I recall correctly, Deck Knight's set was Thunderbolt/Earthquake/Overheat/Mach Punch. I guess Will-O-Wisp helps to differentiate it.
 
umbarsc said:
Without Flare Blitz you are walled by nearly any physical wall they throw at you. Pokemon that normally lose to any Ape (Gliscor, Skarmory, etc.) can come in with little threat at all. Infernape only took 50% from Milotic, which has a rather nice SpA stat.

Can you provide the calcs to prove this please? I'm fairly certain that it can, but I may have been playing against standard Starmie or offensive Starmie, not ultra-defensive Starmie (ones that outspeed Infernape, mind you). In any case, Starmie will take massive damage from U-turn which will allow you to send something that will force it out, effectively eliminating it from the battle, especially if you send in a faster Pursuiter.

Maybe you should try running calcs for Close Combat, which outdamages ThunderPunch?
Click to expand...

About Thunderpunch and Close Combat. Right after I posted that I realized how stupid it was factoring in Stab, sorry about that.

Anyways, this is the calc of Thunderpunch against Starmie using Standard Band Ape. 460 Atk vs 186 Def & 301 HP (75 Base Power): 266 - 314 (88.37% - 104.32%) [CounterStar]. It isn't a guarenteed KO without Rocks. The one other problem I have with this is prediction. You have to predict the switch in or you're screwed. With this, you bring it in after one pokemon died, scare away what you're threatening, and Sword Dance on the switch. You'd easily agree that it is far easier to decide your next move on what you see, rather then your gut in the Band case (or obviously if you seen it in the match before). And I just have one comment about the whole U-turn thing. There are 3 pokemon with a faster Pursuit if I recall correctly that are commenly used, and only 2 of them can actually Pursuit Starmie. Dugtrio already traps it, and is unable to. Deoxys-E never uses that, so why bother. This leaves you with Weavile as your best Pursuit user, which gives you really 1 pokemon to be able to do that with. I find that point kinda moot if that's the case.

However, on to the next point. This is the one main problem I have with Flare Blitz. As I said before, absorbing the water attack. Factoring all the residual damage in today's metagame, and by personal experience, I've been left with a range of 20-30% HP left after Surf from X pokemon. That leaves you with one hit considering you have a) the Blaze boost and b) one (possibly two) SDs. As I said, I was considering testing Blaze Kick/Fire Punch, and will do so later today. However, in the mean time, here are some Calculations against Skarmory with Fire Punch/Blaze Kick + Blaze + SD. Just to please you, I'll also run tests with Flare Blitz and look at the best option.

Skarmory against +2 Blaze'd Fire Punch - 674 Atk vs 416 Def & 334 HP (112 Base Power): 390 - 462 (116.77% - 138.32%)

It can pretty easily deal with Skarmory if Fire Punch is decided over or beside Stone Edge, depending on what you want to deal with.

I also want you to remember the goal is to take out Infernape's Counters, Skarmory not being one of them, and still not likely to switch in after the initial boost, fearing any fire move.

Anyways, this is the Flare Blitz +2 Blaze Calc against Gliscor

674 Atk vs 383 Def & 354 HP (180 Base Power): 340 - 402 (96.05% - 113.56%)
 
Pokemon Name: Poliwhirl
Moveset Name: BellyWhirl
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Belly Drum
Move 3: Waterfall
Move 4: Ice Punch/Earthquake/Return/Brick Break
Item: Salac Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature(s): Jolly/Adamant
EVs: Ordered 252 Attack/6 Defense/252 Speed
Description: Why Poliwhirl over Poliwrath? Well Poliwhirl has a base 90 Speed as compared to Poliwrath’s base 70. Now there is a drop in attack, but after Belly Drum your attack will reach 916 (Jolly) or 1004 (Adamant). With the Salac Boost, your speed reaches 459 (Jolly) or 419 (Adamant). I originally made this set for Ubers, but I guess it can work in other tiers. Switch into a water attack. In Ubers, use this against a Kyorge with are normally Choiced. Sub on the switch, then Belly Drum and attack. In OU-UU it might be harder to pull off though. I am not really sure what would work for the 4 move, suggestions will be gladly taken.
 
Bogmire said:
dpmfa485.png
@Leftovers/Shed Shell
Modest
208 hp, 200 speed, 100 spA
Flash Fire
-Taunt
-Toxic
-Earth Power/Stealth Rock
-Lava Plume/Flamethrower/Fire Blast

I guess this is sort of a variation on tauntran, I don't really know what to call it but I've used it with moderate success and most people don't expect it. The EVs allow you to survive a Life Orb Focus Blast from max spA Timid Gengar, 100% of the time, while 200 speed EVs allows you to outrun max speed adamant breloom and metagross. Taunt is here to shut down walls or baton passers, while Toxic allows you to break them down afterwards, or anything else that may switch in. You can use Lava Plume as your main attacking move if you want to try and get lucky with the burn rate, but you're probably better off using toxic on whatever switches in rather than relying on a 30% chance. Because of this set's bulkiness it's good for setting up stealth rock, but you'll lose coverage against Tentacruel and other Heatran which is why Earth Power is listed as another option.

You could move more EVs into HP or defenses if you want to, the 100 spA EVs are only here to make Heatran more of an offensive threat.

Leftovers is recommended but Shed Shell is also good if you fear Dugtrio.
Click to expand...

Any comments or suggestions?
 
Sorry Ditto, but I have to say that Bellywhirl has been around, and everyone knows exactly what's going to happen when you see a poliwhirl instead of a poliwrath.
 
Oh, I understand. However that's what Mach Punch is for, and still you won't outspeed stuff like Azelf or Infernape. Puch faster Weavile and then you can burn slower leads. It's not a perfect set by any means. And it's not meant for UU, seeing as it is BL.

I tried it a few times on Shoddy, and it was actually moderately successful. I only killed one Weavile, but WoW is really great.
 
MKDSJedi said:
I don't know if this set, or something similar, has been posted before, but I've been trying it out on a new Shoddy team and it has been working rather well (it's won me several matches when it's been my last Pokemon). I didn't see a specific set on the analysis either.
EDIT: I have rewritten it now to look better
dpmfa437.png

CMZong
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Levitate
Relaxed/Bold (since 0 Spd is not needed)
252HP/58Def/100SpAtk/100SpDef
(The EVs are a little odd because I'm not very good at EV spreads)
Hypnosis
Calm Mind
Psychic/Hidden Power/Shadow Ball
Grass Knot/Hidden Power (see section below for types)/Charge Beam/Shadow Ball

This is best brought out late in the game when the opponent has fewer Pokemon left to switch in. I usually bring this in either on a weak special attacker or a weak wall, Hypnotize them and CM up (twice generally). Psychic is the better STAB option and after a couple of Calm Minds is very powerful. The tough part is choosing the final slot, so I'll split this into two parts - Hidden Powers and other moves.
Grass Knot is useful for Tyranitar, Milotic, Dugtrio and general coverage. I use this at the moment but I'm finding more and more Pokemon I get walled by. Weavile in particular is a major threat, Metagross (especially if AgiliGross sees an opportunity to set up), Magnezone and Celebi like me too. Shadow Ball covers some of these threats but leaves you completely open to T-tar. Charge Beam is there for the Electric coverage (and if you forego STAB you can get pseudo-BoltBeam) but is a weaker option than most of the other options.
Hidden Power Types
There are lots of these that can be used, so I'll explain the advantages and disadvantages of each.
Electric:Covers Gyarados mainly. A slightly more powerful version of Charge Beam without the SpAtk boost.
Fire: Leaves you wide open to Heatran and T-tar but covers Magnezone, Celebi, Metagross, Forretress and Weavile as well as other Bronzong. The best option
Ground: Helps cover Heatran, Metagross and Magnezone, but leaves you wide open to Celebi (among others)
Ice: 4x Dragons, nothing resisting it 4x plus an extremely weak pseudo-BoltBeam if you run Charge Beam (remember this means no STAB move).
Fighting: Steel-types, Blissey/Snorlax and T-Tar, but this leaves you wide open to Celebi. Also, if you run this with Shadow Ball Ghost/Fighting is a good move combo, which hits lots (if not all) Pokemon for at least neutral. But you will have to forego STAB or Hypnosis, which is not recommended.
Dark: If you get 31/31/31/31/31 IVs, you get this HP type, which hits other Psychics at the cost of T-Tar or Heatran coverage.


I have three Shoddy logs since this was initially posted in which CMZong has killed 3 or more Pokemon. :)
Click to expand...
Anyone able to offer any help or criticism?
 
@Bogmire-- who cares? No one cares who made the set first.

@MK-- CM Bronzong is pretty common, and you've written down too many options here. While the usefulness of Grass Knot cannot be underestimated, I believe HP Ice paired with Charge Beam and Psychic or Shaodowball paired with HP Fighting are the most common combinations
 
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