What does Arcanine have that makes it better than Moltres at agility sweeping?
And Cloyster isnt going to be outspeeding much with that ev spread...
And Cloyster isnt going to be outspeeding much with that ev spread...
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
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with recycle thi9s has merit. Of course replacing brick break with focus punch. Its really, really risky :P
Moltres is SR weak, that means I will have to pack Rapid Spin, therefore even more support (which will then make the set even more gimmicky then it already is). I don't need Rapid Spin to use it, but Moltres will die really quick.
Only problem is Tyranitar doesn't learn Bulk Up, and there is a similar Curse set already on site.
EDIT: speedy MN beat me
EDIT: speedy MN beat me
I assume (i didnt make the set) that its a physical attacking togekiss that uses extremespeed, sky attack, and focus punch with a power herb. REcycle is a key part of this set as it can allow for multiple uses of uncharged sky attacks and focus punches. STABed extremespeed is always a good move. Its really surprising and is super risky with hustle but it looks really cool :D
I used a Togekiss like that in the Battle Factory:
479 | Togekiss 1 | Adamant | Power Herb | Sky Attack, ExtremeSpeed, Drain Punch, Roost | Atk/Sp.Def
it was quite effective there, but I don't particularly see its uses competitively. For one, Power Herb doesn't charge Focus Punch, only Sky Attack, so you'll almost definitely need some support to remove Steel-types. Having a non-STAB Drain Punch / Brick Break as your only method of dealing with them will not work all too well. That's one of the big reasons why physical Togekiss will be unviable in OU - unlike on its Special side, it doesn't have anything like Aura Sphere in terms of power and consistency, and so will lose to almost all Steel-types.
Even against a Steel-type you don't have to hit with your Fighting move, for example Scizor, Togekiss will find it doesn't have the power to OHKO. Adamant Hustle Sky Attack does 60.6 - 71.7% to 248 HP Scizor, and ExtremeSpeed 17.5 - 20.7%, and that's one of the defensively weakest Steel-types. Against 212/252+ Blissey, Sky Attack does 53.7 - 63.2%, so there's little advantage in using this physical Togekiss when a Nasty Plot one with Aura Sphere and Roost would do so much better.
EDIT: @ Metanite - There is in fact a very effective Mixed Togekiss set that uses Hustle and Life Orb with ExtremeSpeed to take out faster threats, while also getting a 2HKO with SR on Blissey as well. Hustle also doesn't reduce the accuracy of special attacks, so Togekiss can use things like Flamethrower with perfect accuracy at the same time.
479 | Togekiss 1 | Adamant | Power Herb | Sky Attack, ExtremeSpeed, Drain Punch, Roost | Atk/Sp.Def
it was quite effective there, but I don't particularly see its uses competitively. For one, Power Herb doesn't charge Focus Punch, only Sky Attack, so you'll almost definitely need some support to remove Steel-types. Having a non-STAB Drain Punch / Brick Break as your only method of dealing with them will not work all too well. That's one of the big reasons why physical Togekiss will be unviable in OU - unlike on its Special side, it doesn't have anything like Aura Sphere in terms of power and consistency, and so will lose to almost all Steel-types.
Even against a Steel-type you don't have to hit with your Fighting move, for example Scizor, Togekiss will find it doesn't have the power to OHKO. Adamant Hustle Sky Attack does 60.6 - 71.7% to 248 HP Scizor, and ExtremeSpeed 17.5 - 20.7%, and that's one of the defensively weakest Steel-types. Against 212/252+ Blissey, Sky Attack does 53.7 - 63.2%, so there's little advantage in using this physical Togekiss when a Nasty Plot one with Aura Sphere and Roost would do so much better.
EDIT: @ Metanite - There is in fact a very effective Mixed Togekiss set that uses Hustle and Life Orb with ExtremeSpeed to take out faster threats, while also getting a 2HKO with SR on Blissey as well. Hustle also doesn't reduce the accuracy of special attacks, so Togekiss can use things like Flamethrower with perfect accuracy at the same time.
I know what moves it can use, I meant what can Sky Attack kill that Togekiss couldn't normally? After running calculations, I understand it can manage over 60% to Blissey's health which is nice. Albeit, only 70% of the time.
I was thinking Flamethrower? Why waste that great SpA stat?
Sky Attack / Flamethrower or Fire Blast / Extreme Speed / Roost seems decent enough. I was thinking a SkarmBliss breaker, however I understand that isn't very plausible as you fail to OHKO Calm Blissey.
I actually got the idea from the Battle Factory Togekiss.
It is wonderfully fun to use, but hax misses can be a bugger, especially against
Sand Veilers. It pairs up well with a Magnezone, to take Thunder and Ice attacks aimed at it, and take out the steels that it hates so much. It could be better, i didn't spend too much time on it. I wish Togekiss got Swords Dance...
It is wonderfully fun to use, but hax misses can be a bugger, especially against
Sand Veilers. It pairs up well with a Magnezone, to take Thunder and Ice attacks aimed at it, and take out the steels that it hates so much. It could be better, i didn't spend too much time on it. I wish Togekiss got Swords Dance...
Not really a moveset or EV spread but... Is Choice Scarf+Trick Azelf a viable lead? I was thinking that it would beat Aerodactyl leads this way.
This should be in the simple questions thread, but I'm gonna answer it anyway: yes it's viable.
Ok, check this out. I have been mingling with this on Shoddy, and it has worked well. Tell me what you think.
Set Name: Choice Scarf
Scizor@ Choice Scarf
Technician
Adamant nature or Jolly nature
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Metal Claw
Superpower
U-Turn
Night Slash
Comments:
This puts Scizor into more of a revenge killer role than an attacker. It might be outclassed by the Choice Band set, but it has worked fine on Shoddy. Metal Claw is your STAB move. Because of your boosted speed priority Bullet Punch is not needed. With Technician and STAB, it gets 123.75 base power, weather it be rounded down or up, it outdamages Superpower, something not seen on the Swords Dance or CB set. Superpower is your coverage move and nails Blissey, Heatran and Magnezone. U-Turn is a great scouting move and annihalates Azelf and Celebi. Night Slash is a fabulous way to hit the Rotom appliances.
EV's and Nature
You forego bulk here and go with straight on attacking power. With an Adamant nature, you reach 394 Attack and 343 Speed, while with a Jolly nature you reach 359 Attack and 376 Speed, enough to outrun positive natured Azelf.
Other options: Pursuit, Brick Break, X-Scissor.
Like it? Hate it?
Set Name: Choice Scarf
Scizor@ Choice Scarf
Technician
Adamant nature or Jolly nature
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Metal Claw
Superpower
U-Turn
Night Slash
Comments:
This puts Scizor into more of a revenge killer role than an attacker. It might be outclassed by the Choice Band set, but it has worked fine on Shoddy. Metal Claw is your STAB move. Because of your boosted speed priority Bullet Punch is not needed. With Technician and STAB, it gets 123.75 base power, weather it be rounded down or up, it outdamages Superpower, something not seen on the Swords Dance or CB set. Superpower is your coverage move and nails Blissey, Heatran and Magnezone. U-Turn is a great scouting move and annihalates Azelf and Celebi. Night Slash is a fabulous way to hit the Rotom appliances.
EV's and Nature
You forego bulk here and go with straight on attacking power. With an Adamant nature, you reach 394 Attack and 343 Speed, while with a Jolly nature you reach 359 Attack and 376 Speed, enough to outrun positive natured Azelf.
Other options: Pursuit, Brick Break, X-Scissor.
Like it? Hate it?
Uh... how about you check the Togekiss analysis first. You'll see that there is a Togekiss (initially designed by me, actually) that uses Hustle ExtremeSpeed plus special attacks to hit the usually physically defensive Steels that would try to Sponge it. Sky Attack is just crap, LO ExtremeSpeed does about as much without the lower accuracy and the requirement for a crappy item.
Ok, check this out. I have been mingling with this on Shoddy, and it has worked well. Tell me what you think.
Set Name: Choice Scarf
Scizor@ Choice Scarf
Technician
Adamant nature or Jolly nature
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Metal Claw
Superpower
U-Turn
Night Slash
Comments:
This puts Scizor into more of a revenge killer role than an attacker. It might be outclassed by the Choice Band set, but it has worked fine on Shoddy. Metal Claw is your STAB move. Because of your boosted speed priority Bullet Punch is not needed. With Technician and STAB, it gets 123.75 base power, weather it be rounded down or up, it outdamages Superpower, something not seen on the Swords Dance or CB set. Superpower is your coverage move and nails Blissey, Heatran and Magnezone. U-Turn is a great scouting move and annihalates Azelf and Celebi. Night Slash is a fabulous way to hit the Rotom appliances.
EV's and Nature
You forego bulk here and go with straight on attacking power. With an Adamant nature, you reach 394 Attack and 343 Speed, while with a Jolly nature you reach 359 Attack and 376 Speed, enough to outrun positive natured Azelf.
Other options: Pursuit, Brick Break, X-Scissor.
Like it? Hate it?
I've theorized a set like this before and I would like to know why not Iron Head over Metal Claw? A bit weaker, yes, but the flinch rate over attack boost and the slightly better accuracy seems like a good option.
What is your opinion?
Yes, Iron Head could be used over Metal Claw. The flinch chance is decent, but I think Jirachi or Togekiss are much better for a flinch haxer, obviously. I today's metagame, every point of power could mean a difference in distinguishing a OHKO from a 2HKO. I will definately test Iron Head, though.
Iron Head is actually not weaker. 80 * 1.5 STAB = 120 vs. Metal Claw's 50 * 1.5 STAB * 1.5 Technician = 112.5
Ok, that's what I thought but I was going with Witness315's number.
The real problems with Scarf Scizor are twofold. One: CB Bullet Punch is actually stronger than a Scarf Iron Head by effectively 12.5%. Two, Scizor loses its most useful ability: its ability to revenge boosted faster stuff like Salamence or DDTar regardless of speed.
Also, base 65 speed really sucks with a Choice Scarf considering that even boosted it's still piss-poor. You need a Jolly nature to beat Base 110 or better (Gengar, Starmie, +1 DDTar), and without that power Scizor is pretty mediocre. Basically... why would you use that over Choice Band?
Also, base 65 speed really sucks with a Choice Scarf considering that even boosted it's still piss-poor. You need a Jolly nature to beat Base 110 or better (Gengar, Starmie, +1 DDTar), and without that power Scizor is pretty mediocre. Basically... why would you use that over Choice Band?
ive given scarf scizor a thought before but it had this:
Scizor@Choice Scarf
252 Atk/252 Spe/4HP Jolly
Superpower
U-turn
Iron Head
Bullet Punch
first i thought: wouldnt it be fun with this thing revenging non scarf heatran?
superpower vs min/min heatran
359 Atk vs 248 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 248 - 294 (77.26% - 91.59%)
OHKO after 2 switchins to SR
u-turn on latias (min/min)
359 Atk vs 216 Def & 301 HP (70 Base Power): 252 - 296 (83.72% - 98.34%)
OHKOs latias after SR+some other damage, meaning no risking the HP fire and you can hit it before reflect on versions that have it
superpower vs tyranitar (min/min assumed +1 DD)
359 Atk vs 256 Def & 342 HP (120 Base Power): 484 - 572 (141.52% - 167.25%)
duh
it also counters lucario who will stay in and CC instead of switching out :naughty:
magnezone is also KOd :naughty:
iron head can still destroy gengar
it wasnt bad, though:
technician BP vs salamence
359 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (60 Base Power): 118 - 141 (35.65% - 42.60%)
pitiful vs min/min salamence
doesnt touch gyarados and pursuit is not here because it does not work without a choice band
Scizor@Choice Scarf
252 Atk/252 Spe/4HP Jolly
Superpower
U-turn
Iron Head
Bullet Punch
first i thought: wouldnt it be fun with this thing revenging non scarf heatran?
superpower vs min/min heatran
359 Atk vs 248 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 248 - 294 (77.26% - 91.59%)
OHKO after 2 switchins to SR
u-turn on latias (min/min)
359 Atk vs 216 Def & 301 HP (70 Base Power): 252 - 296 (83.72% - 98.34%)
OHKOs latias after SR+some other damage, meaning no risking the HP fire and you can hit it before reflect on versions that have it
superpower vs tyranitar (min/min assumed +1 DD)
359 Atk vs 256 Def & 342 HP (120 Base Power): 484 - 572 (141.52% - 167.25%)
duh
it also counters lucario who will stay in and CC instead of switching out :naughty:
magnezone is also KOd :naughty:
iron head can still destroy gengar
it wasnt bad, though:
technician BP vs salamence
359 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (60 Base Power): 118 - 141 (35.65% - 42.60%)
pitiful vs min/min salamence
doesnt touch gyarados and pursuit is not here because it does not work without a choice band
No need to call me out like that. It is cool you are defending your set I suppose but really, no need... Of course I saw the analysis page. However, the whole point was not a mixed set that uses Hustle Extreme Speed, but Hustle Sky Attack. At the time, I didn't know Sky Attack wasn't very good (I wouldn't call it crap). As I said, I was hoping it would kill Blissey, something the current mixed set fails to do in 1 hit. (Extreme Speed doesn't have a very good chance of hitting the second time). Yet it can deal a good 75% which certainly isn't bad.
Scarf Scizor is good as a surprise I'd say, but once the jig is up you'll realize you'd rather have the extra power of Choice Band. With a Choice Scarf, it is much easier to spam U-turn however.
I really wanted to incorporate dusknoir on my team but I didn't like how it was completely outclassed as a spin blocker by rotom so I came up with this set. It usually nets me at least 1 kill per game and has even made a few opponents quit.
Dusknoir@Leftovers
Impish
Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SpD
-Mean Look
-Toxic
-Earthquake
-Rest
Most people think of mean look+toxic as a noob strategy, but it is actually quite effective on Dusknoir becuase of it's access to Earthquake. Earthquake hits most poison and steel types supereffective which other toxistallers would usually struggle against.
The strategy is obvious. switch dusknoir in on something that can't harm it then proceed to use mean look as they expect will-o-wisp and switch in something that doesn't mind it. Most things can be poisoned and stalled out, or EQed to death if they're heatran or some other steel or poison type. The main things you need to watch out for when using this set are Gengar, Crocune, Skarmory (because of whirlwind), and levitaters/flyers with substitute or taunt. Bronzong also walls this set but it can't hurt dusknoir and it will be pressure stalled easily. This type of Dusknoir hates being poisoned by the opposition (Blissey, Porygon2, Umbreon, etc.) so Rest is usually better than Pain Split
I wasn't so sure what kind of EVs to give this thing so I just balanced out its defenses with 354 in each. It seems to work well. It avoids a 2HKO from Heatran's Fire Blast while still retaining good physical bulk.
Impish
Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SpD
-Mean Look
-Toxic
-Earthquake
-Rest
Most people think of mean look+toxic as a noob strategy, but it is actually quite effective on Dusknoir becuase of it's access to Earthquake. Earthquake hits most poison and steel types supereffective which other toxistallers would usually struggle against.
The strategy is obvious. switch dusknoir in on something that can't harm it then proceed to use mean look as they expect will-o-wisp and switch in something that doesn't mind it. Most things can be poisoned and stalled out, or EQed to death if they're heatran or some other steel or poison type. The main things you need to watch out for when using this set are Gengar, Crocune, Skarmory (because of whirlwind), and levitaters/flyers with substitute or taunt. Bronzong also walls this set but it can't hurt dusknoir and it will be pressure stalled easily. This type of Dusknoir hates being poisoned by the opposition (Blissey, Porygon2, Umbreon, etc.) so Rest is usually better than Pain Split
I wasn't so sure what kind of EVs to give this thing so I just balanced out its defenses with 354 in each. It seems to work well. It avoids a 2HKO from Heatran's Fire Blast while still retaining good physical bulk.
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