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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Chillarmy said:
Wdf are you talking about? That's wrong in like 8 different ways. Close Combat is what gives Gallade utility outside of the lead position. Take that away and Gallade is no better than a Dunsparce lead. So what if Gallade takes on a couple of SDef drops, LO recoil means that it's going to live long anyway. You're really better off running Close Combat to nail Tyranitar and Kingdra for OHKO's and for that matter, Swords Dance > Zen Headbutt in order to make Gallade, erm, a threat.
Click to expand...

Zen Headbutt, CC, Leaf Blade, Shadow Sneak;
Kills off prominent leads most of the time.
Against the mentioned Steel leads mentioned here except for Heatran, CC doesn't cut it.
Also, I don't see why LO is needed. Lead Gallade should be using Focus Sash.
LO + HP EV's is just contradicting itself, really. Enough Speed EV's should be used to outrun Jolly TTar in order to give it utility outside of the Lead Position (as you said) and whatever's leftover in HP. @Focus Sash > @LO.
Gliscor leads, not really common.
and does Ice Punch even OHKO opposing Dragonite leads?

Oh, and this post wasn't directed completely towards you, I just felt like quoting this post for some reason xD
 
Ericcc said:
Zen Headbutt, CC, Leaf Blade, Shadow Sneak;
Kills off prominent leads most of the time.
Against the mentioned Steel leads mentioned here except for Heatran, CC doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...

With just those four attacks, Gallade isn't doing any damage outside of the lead position meaning that Swampert, Skarmory, Forretress and the like can just switch in and start stack on entry hazards. I'm not saying that Gallade as a lead is a bad idea, but not using its best STAB is kind of shitty move.
 
Yeah Lead Gallade loses against all steels not named Heatran or Lucario. I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.
But none of them are leads, so...

a PERFECT teammate for this guy is Steel Trapper Magnezone... Just sayin'
 
Ericcc said:
Yeah Lead Gallade loses against all steels not named Heatran or Lucario. I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.
Click to expand...

SpecsTran beats Gallade regardless and it's a common enough lead, just sayin. As I said twice before, anti-leads are only effective if they can do more than KO the opposing lead; Hariyama and Machamp can beat most of the common leads, but they can at least prevent other Pokemon from using them as set up fodder. Dropping a STAB base 120 BP attack with great coverage for the ability to beat Metagross that decide not to attack on the first turn is kind of... dumb.
 
Oh, I'm suggesting CC/LeafBlade/ShadowSneak/ZenHeadbutt as a moveset.. > .<
As you can see from my previous posts.
And Focus Sash as the item (from posts previous days ago)
 
Chillarmy said:
Oh, sorry then >.>
Click to expand...


Here's the set I suggest (but Haunter deleted it -.-)
So I'm posting it again with added commentary.

Here's the set.
====================================
475.png
Lead
Gallade @ Focus Sash
Adamant
252 Att/ 200 Spe (outspeeds Jolly TTar by a couple of points/ 58 HP (some bulk)
Close Combat
Leaf Blade/ Taunt
Shadow Sneak
Zen Headbutt/ Destiny Bond
====================================

Against some common leads;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AZELF - Leaf Blade first for the added chance of Critical. Then, Shadow Sneak.
Leaf Blade does 48.3% - 56.8%. Shadow Sneak does 43.2% - 51.4%.

SWAMPERT Leaf Blade for the chance of OHKO with a Crit.
Leaf Blade does 83.8% - 98.8%.
MixPert set

MACHAMP Zen Headbutt for the chance of OHKO.
88.7% - 104.5%
Attacking Lead set

AERODACTYL Close Combat + Shadow Sneak for the KO.
Close Combat does 98.3% - 116.2%. Shadow Sneak does 22.2% - 26.2%.

INFERNAPE Close Combat + Shadow Sneak for the KO.
Close Combat does 94.5% - 111.6%. Shadow Sneak does 21.2% - 25.3%.
Stealth Rock + Fake Out Lead set

HEATRAN ""
Close Combat does 123.2% - 145.5%. Shadow Sneak does 6.8% - 8%.
Stealth Rock Lead set

METAGROSS 2 Close Combats have a chance to KO.
Close Combat does 46.3% - 54.5%. So, two consecutive Close Combats in a row will do 91.7% - 108.3%. Obviously only works if they Stealth Rock first turn.
Lead Metagross set

DRAGONITE
Loses. Switch out
Lead Dragonite set

JIRACHI 2 Close Combats will KO, while he either Tricks or Stealth Rock's first turn.
Close Combat does 61.4% - 72.2%.
Choice Scarf lead set

HIPPOWDON
Loses.
Standard Lead set
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Team Options:
Steel Killer Magnezone to kill off the Metagross and Jirachi you MAY have troubles with....
Sorry, not much off the top of my head
Also, this Gallade has utility outside of the lead position, being able to outspeed TTar (is that much utility? d:)
 
@ Ericcc

These calcs make the case for LO. I don't want to maybe kill Machamp and Swampert, I want the bastards gone. If Swampert sets up rocks, then Gallade hasn't done his job.
 
@Sheaz; you're completely right.

But I'm stuck between Focus Sash and LO.
They're both obviously great options for this lead Gallade, just not sure which one has more use...
 
I opt for LO, just because while having Gallade around is awesome and can change my late game around, it's not necessary. I'm more interested in immediately putting the score at 6-5 and preventing rocks (depending on the lead).
 
Opting for LO now as well, after seeing the usefulness it has.
Focus Sash is still a viable option, but LO is the desired item now! :D
 
Alakazam
OU revenge killer

psychic
shockwave
hp ground
grass knot/shadow ball/energy ball

choice scarf
syncronize
modest
4HP/252SpA/252Spe

This alakazam is capable of killing most of the top tier threats in OU.
Hp ground on min SpD heatran 333 to 392 dmg, will ko max hp heatran after stealth rock.
Shockwave on min SpD gyarados 301 to 354 dmg, will ko max hp gyarados after stealth rock.
Psychic covers poisons and fighting types and your last move can cover whatever your team needs shadowball or grassknot.
Max speed evs are not required but i recommend max just incase.
Can run whatever hidden power you need but i recommend HP ground cause heatran is a pain.
I think this set could easily push alakazam to the tops of OU for its combination of speed and power and ability to counter whatever poke u what.
Have tried in OU and scored easy KOs with it on lots of pokes.
 
@Kingtraut:

Why not just use a Scarf Starmie instead? You get better STAB, can actually take a hit, stronger attacks to use (T-bolt vs Shockwave and Ice Beam vs HP Ground) as well as Trick (even though Alaka gets that too). The only noteworthy benefit that Alakazam has over Starmie as a fast special sweeper is its 120 base speed, which allows it to outrun Scarftar. You're not really using this advantage here though...
 
@ Kingtraut
I don't know how viable the set is. You are likely to et pursuited by some really common OU threats depending on what you lock into. If you lock into anything but grass knot, T-tar will come in and destroy you. Hp ground does 40% max to a T-tar with no defensive investment. Grass Knot does 57%-68% max so if you KOed a poke, someone could get T-tar in for free, then Alakazam is dead. Snorlax can come in on anything (Psychic is a 4HKO) and pursuit (252 Spdef evs, calcs for CB set). Scizor also can come in on anything with no defensive investment and the best you can do is 35% max with hp ground and 34% max with psychic. Then Scizor will pursuit you as well. And finally, if you lock into anything but hp ground, Metagross can come in and pursuit you. And like T-tar, hp ground only does 61% max so if you just revenged killed, metagross could come in for free (Clacs for CB set). On a different note, I don't like shock wave, it doesn't have a lot of power and a lot of stuff can come in on it, force Alakazam out, and set up. Shock wave 3HKOs Lucario with no defensive investment. Lucario, a poke with 70-70-70 defensive and no investment is a 3HKO. Tons more can come in then set up all over you.
I hope this helps!
 
@Despotar; have you tried using LO? Thinking about it now, Expert Belt is also a good option with Lead Gallade, as the main reason it uses LO is to get the OHKO on things it might not get them on without it; Swampert and Machamp.
 
Eric said:
INFERNAPE Close Combat + Shadow Sneak for the KO.
Close Combat does 94.5% - 111.6%. Shadow Sneak does 21.2% - 25.3%.
Stealth Rock + Fake Out Lead set
Click to expand...

May I ask why Close Combat + Shadow Sneak against Infernape as opposed to just Zen Headbutt?
 
King Emerald said:
@ Kingtraut
I don't know how viable the set is. You are likely to et pursuited by some really common OU threats depending on what you lock into. If you lock into anything but grass knot, T-tar will come in and destroy you. Hp ground does 40% max to a T-tar with no defensive investment. Grass Knot does 57%-68% max so if you KOed a poke, someone could get T-tar in for free, then Alakazam is dead. Snorlax can come in on anything (Psychic is a 4HKO) and pursuit (252 Spdef evs, calcs for CB set). Scizor also can come in on anything with no defensive investment and the best you can do is 35% max with hp ground and 34% max with psychic. Then Scizor will pursuit you as well. And finally, if you lock into anything but hp ground, Metagross can come in and pursuit you. And like T-tar, hp ground only does 61% max so if you just revenged killed, metagross could come in for free (Clacs for CB set). On a different note, I don't like shock wave, it doesn't have a lot of power and a lot of stuff can come in on it, force Alakazam out, and set up. Shock wave 3HKOs Lucario with no defensive investment. Lucario, a poke with 70-70-70 defensive and no investment is a 3HKO. Tons more can come in then set up all over you.
I hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Every psychic runs the risk of being pursuited theres nothing u can do and you can use hp fire or fighting if you need a t tar or scizor counter.
This set isn't perfect pokes can counter it but its capable of counting any pokes your weak to and is fast which i like.
 
I did some math calculation to lower the speed EVs of my Jolly natured Gallade so it can meet 244 Speed (to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar) then double checked in the damage calculator and got a strange result.

I currently have 252 Speed EVs in my Gallade and knew that in order to lower it to 244 (I'm not sure why for Adamant sets you guys recommend achieving 246 speed) I'd have to lose 40 Speed stat:

40 x 4 = 160 Speed EVs

So I needed to drop 160 Speed EVs and achieve 92 Speed EVs for Jolly Gallade. However the damage Calculator showed me that 92 Speed EVs achieve a speed of 240 and I would need 104 Speed EVs to achieve 144.

So my questions are:

1.What is wrong with this math? The damage calculator clearly isn't wrong so is the problem an error with me not properly accounting for the 10% nature boost in some way? I did the math straight from the maximum speed of a boosted nature Gallade.

2. Why 200 Speed EVs for an Adamant Gallade to achieve 246 speed when 244 speed works just as well for outspeeding the Jolly Tyranitar benchkmark?

I'm asking this here because we are currently discussing an Anti-Lead Gallade set and I realized I have to fix the EV spread on my current anti-lead set since my Speed EVs didn't give me any significant advantage and I could consolidate it in HP.
 
Right, 192 is the mark. (200 EV's in speed is just what mine has and I'm lazy so I don't want to do the berry thing).

Posting the set here again since it's a new page, and to spark discussion;

Here's the set.
====================================
475.png
Lead
Gallade @ Focus Sash LIFE ORB (Gets key OHKO's on Swampert and Machamp)
Adamant
252 Att/ 192 Spe (outspeeds Jolly TTar)/ 66 HP (some bulk)
Close Combat
Leaf Blade/ Taunt
Shadow Sneak
Zen Headbutt/ Destiny Bond
====================================

Against some common leads;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AZELF - Leaf Blade first for the added chance of Critical. Then, Shadow Sneak.
Leaf Blade does 48.3% - 56.8%. Shadow Sneak does 43.2% - 51.4%.

SWAMPERT Leaf Blade for the chance of OHKO with a Crit.
Leaf Blade does 83.8% - 98.8%.
MixPert set

MACHAMP Zen Headbutt for the chance of OHKO.
88.7% - 104.5%
Attacking Lead set

AERODACTYL Close Combat + Shadow Sneak for the KO.
Close Combat does 98.3% - 116.2%. Shadow Sneak does 22.2% - 26.2%.

INFERNAPE Close Combat + Shadow Sneak for the KO.
Close Combat does 94.5% - 111.6%. Shadow Sneak does 21.2% - 25.3%.
Stealth Rock + Fake Out Lead set

HEATRAN ""
Close Combat does 123.2% - 145.5%. Shadow Sneak does 6.8% - 8%.
Stealth Rock Lead set

METAGROSS 2 Close Combats have a chance to KO.
Close Combat does 46.3% - 54.5%. So, two consecutive Close Combats in a row will do 91.7% - 108.3%. Obviously only works if they Stealth Rock first turn.
Lead Metagross set

DRAGONITE
Loses. Switch out
Lead Dragonite set

JIRACHI 2 Close Combats will KO, while he either Tricks or Stealth Rock's first turn.
Close Combat does 61.4% - 72.2%.
Choice Scarf lead set

HIPPOWDON
Loses.
Standard Lead set
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Team Options:
Steel Killer Magnezone to kill off the Metagross and Jirachi you MAY have troubles with....
Sorry, not much off the top of my head
Also, this Gallade has utility outside of the lead position, being able to outspeed TTar (is that much utility? d:)
 
This is a Gengar set I've been testing with moderate success. It's key factor in success is surprise value, but once your opponent knows your set, they could think of a way to work around it. However, with proper team support it can work wonders.

Spr_4h_094.png

@ Focus Sash
252 Spe, 252 Sp. A, 4 HP
-Taunt
-Counter
-Shadow Ball / HP Fire
-Focus Blast / Explosion

The key to this set is Taunt. Pokemon who think they can setup on Gengar find themselves forced to attack, which is where Counter comes in. Focus Sash keeps you alive. The other two attacks are just for late-game sweeping if you can't use him for death fodder. Explosion is another idea, though you have to plop 100 EVs into attack at minimum.

I have used this set to take out many of Gengar's usual counters. Tyranitar and Scizor, who expect a swap and will take the turn to setup, are shut down. Other common Gengar switch-ins like Blissey and Weezing are also ruined. The only problem with this Gengar is after it nets a kill, it basically becomes dead weight. You could try Wish Passing to give it some HP to do late-game sweeping.

A great teammate to this set is Zapdos. Zapdos can take the usual attacks directed at Gengar, particularly the incoming Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet from a Pokemon who wants to revenge kill Gengar if you plan on keeping him around for later. Zapdos can also kill those who use the common priority moves, and also works well on Rain Dance teams, which brings me to my next point.

Because Focus Sash is generally needed for survival, Sandstorm and Hail teams ruin this set. That's why I put Gengar on a Rain Dance team, to counter the effects of damaging weather. Kingdra can kill Hippowdon and Tyranitar with ease, and Zapdos' Heat Wave destroys Abamasnow and Froslass, and Thunderbolt/Thunder will kill off Walrein. Vaporeon, my favorite Wish Passer, can also benefit from Rain Dance support boosting its Surfs, and Starmie, a must-have rapid spinner, loves the rain, too.

But that's just from my experience from this set. Albeit I haven't been able to test it a whole lot, and the team I used it on its as sturdy as it could be, but it's a good start, no?
 
You say this set deals with Tyranitar, but after you Counter his physical move, you'll just die off to SS damage.
I'm guessing this set is supposed to be in the lead position. Against Azelf, Aerodactyl, and Machamp, you still lose. Azelf could outspeed and just choose to Psychic twice (albeit a less common move on lead Azelf), Aerodactyl sets up rocks, and makes you lose your sash, and Machamp can Payback + Bullet Punch for the KO.
Against Machamp, Shadow Ball only does 35.2% - 41.4%. (Attacking Lead set). While he Paybacks and then proceeds to BP for the KO, as mentioned above.
I'm sure you'd Counter on the first turn, but what if the opposing Machamp is running the Anti-Lead set and decides to Substitute? There, you lose in any case, because I'm sure you won't Taunt an opposing Machamp lead right?
It's a waste running this set with a Gengar, because as you said yourself, once it has killed off an opponent with Counter, it's pretty much done to SS damage or Aqua Jet/ Bullet Punch.
 
Ericcc said:
You say this set deals with Tyranitar, but after you Counter his physical move, you'll just die off to SS damage.
I'm guessing this set is supposed to be in the lead position. Against Azelf, Aerodactyl, and Machamp, you still lose. Azelf could outspeed and just choose to Psychic twice (albeit a less common move on lead Azelf), Aerodactyl sets up rocks, and makes you lose your sash, and Machamp can Payback + Bullet Punch for the KO.
Against Machamp, Shadow Ball only does 35.2% - 41.4%. (Attacking Lead set). While he Paybacks and then proceeds to BP for the KO, as mentioned above.
I'm sure you'd Counter on the first turn, but what if the opposing Machamp is running the Anti-Lead set and decides to Substitute? There, you lose in any case, because I'm sure you won't Taunt an opposing Machamp lead right?
It's a waste running this set with a Gengar, because as you said yourself, once it has killed off an opponent with Counter, it's pretty much done to SS damage or Aqua Jet/ Bullet Punch.
Click to expand...

Like I said, for Sandstorm I recommended putting it on a Rain Dance team with a Kingdra, who could kill Tyranitar/Hippowdon easily, set up a non-damaging weather, and allow Gengar to deal with Scizor (who will be, more often than not, on a team with a Tyranitar/Hippowdon) who could otherwise kill your typical Rain Dance sweepers.

And tbh I've never run into the anti-lead Machamp at all, especially these days with suicide/taunting leads so abundant. If anything, Choice Scarf is the set to worry about.

Concerning the Anti-Lead set, Zapdos, the first teammate I recommended with this set, can deal with whatever Machamp wants to throw at it bar Stone Edge, though Zapdos does have a small chance to survive the 2HKO with Leftovers and KO the sub and Machamp right back. Vaporeon works just as well, and doesn't take nearly as much as Zapdos from Stone Edge. If you fear Encore from Machamp, just use Surf. Surf will break the sub, and another Surf will knock him down to a little over 50%, so if he Subs again, he can't Sub any more. Your only fear is confusion from DynamicPunch at that point.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. yes, I did say it could deal with Tyranitar - because it does. Tyranitar is dead, no? More often than not, that is more valuable than losing a frail sweeper everyone and their grandma has an answer to these days. Lots of teams crumble without their T-Tar backing them up.
 
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