-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
You also have the Curspert set in the analysis, which really is not as good as Snorlax.
Blissey- I wouldnt use it, but it might work. Maybe toxic to do more to vaporeon and stuff that counter gyra.
Machamp- All those pokes take alot from stone edge, except gliscor. You can always just kill him in 1 hit with ice punch if you really wanted to anyway.
Gengar- Alof of stall teams have scarftar. Gengar really needs a sub, and painsplit is just fine. The main beauty of it is to get a sweeper in for free as blissey heals (hopefully wishes).
Suicune- Thats a great set. Should be in the analysis. Maybe slash air slash for better coverage but a weaker move.
Scizor-Has major coverage issues. Wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole (no offence).
No comment on the lopunny.
I'd rather use cb lucario over cb machamp because of extremespeed. Or cb any other faster fighting type.
Swampert needs ice punch and i think thats in the analysis (or was).
Ok ill comment on the lopunny since its not for ubers. You need better coverage besides normal, and most leads have priority to kill you before you can effectively use flail.
Machamp- All those pokes take alot from stone edge, except gliscor. You can always just kill him in 1 hit with ice punch if you really wanted to anyway.
Gengar- Alof of stall teams have scarftar. Gengar really needs a sub, and painsplit is just fine. The main beauty of it is to get a sweeper in for free as blissey heals (hopefully wishes).
Suicune- Thats a great set. Should be in the analysis. Maybe slash air slash for better coverage but a weaker move.
Scizor-Has major coverage issues. Wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole (no offence).
No comment on the lopunny.
I'd rather use cb lucario over cb machamp because of extremespeed. Or cb any other faster fighting type.
Swampert needs ice punch and i think thats in the analysis (or was).
Ok ill comment on the lopunny since its not for ubers. You need better coverage besides normal, and most leads have priority to kill you before you can effectively use flail.
Hey guys:)
So, I've been thinking recently about trying to build a "quickstall" team for OU. If you don't know what quickstall is, do a search, its amazing. Anyway, this is an Infernape set I've created which has been possibly the best annoyer and actually one of the most valuable pokemon I've ever used.
-Encore
-Will-o-wisp / Toxic
-Close Combat / Fire Blast
-Substitute
@Leftovers, Timid, 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Yeah I know it looks weird, but it is just amazing. Its made for use with Toxic Spikes to destroy grounded pokemon and in particular Vaporeon, whereas you can Will-o-wisp almost anything not already statused, most significantly Gyarados.
Encore combined with Substitute is also ridiculous. Basically, switch in on anything you outspeed which just used a move you don't care about, get the surprise Encore, Sub on the switch. There is only one thing in OU which isn't completely destroyed by this strategy combined with Toxic Spikes, and that's Heatran; but even then he's not as much of a problem as you'd think he'd be being immune to the entire set. First, he's not switching in unless the opponent knows the whole moveset, for the obvious Fighting typed reasons. 2nd, Heatran can't even do anything once it comes in because of Encore. Whether it just attacks or sets up a Sub, you'll be behind a Sub of your own and can Encore whatever move it uses to turn it into fodder.
EDIT: Added in Toxic as an alternative status and Close Combat as alternative attack.
So, I've been thinking recently about trying to build a "quickstall" team for OU. If you don't know what quickstall is, do a search, its amazing. Anyway, this is an Infernape set I've created which has been possibly the best annoyer and actually one of the most valuable pokemon I've ever used.
-Encore
-Will-o-wisp / Toxic
-Close Combat / Fire Blast
-Substitute
@Leftovers, Timid, 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Yeah I know it looks weird, but it is just amazing. Its made for use with Toxic Spikes to destroy grounded pokemon and in particular Vaporeon, whereas you can Will-o-wisp almost anything not already statused, most significantly Gyarados.
Encore combined with Substitute is also ridiculous. Basically, switch in on anything you outspeed which just used a move you don't care about, get the surprise Encore, Sub on the switch. There is only one thing in OU which isn't completely destroyed by this strategy combined with Toxic Spikes, and that's Heatran; but even then he's not as much of a problem as you'd think he'd be being immune to the entire set. First, he's not switching in unless the opponent knows the whole moveset, for the obvious Fighting typed reasons. 2nd, Heatran can't even do anything once it comes in because of Encore. Whether it just attacks or sets up a Sub, you'll be behind a Sub of your own and can Encore whatever move it uses to turn it into fodder.
EDIT: Added in Toxic as an alternative status and Close Combat as alternative attack.
Moveset Name: Quickpert
Move 1: Curse
Move 2: Waterfall
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Stone Edge / Ice Punch
Item: Quick Claw
Ability: Torrent
Nature(s): Adamant
EVs: Ordered HP252/Atk252/SpD6/
Quick Claw is a luck item that when used with Curse allows Quickpert to negate the speed drop caused by cursing. This is a perfect example of bulky offense. EVs and nature set Quickpert's attack stat (350atk) the moment it's thrown out. This is the same atk stat as Adamant Lucario. After a single curse: 525atk will power Quickperts excellent movepool of water, ground and anti-flying attacks. Quickperts mean Defense jolts from (310) to (364) [HP + Def /2] which is the typical of rate of many physical walls who's sole purpose is defense. Quickpert is an offensive king with one vulnerability to Grass and this set forgets it's reputable defensive capabilities only a moment while grabbing sweeper status. Note: Quick Claw is not required to activate for this set to function well.
Now I know that I'm going to catch a lot of heat for this one, I could care less. Troll somewhere else.
Moveset Name: Panting
Move 1: Haze
Move 2: Hidden Power [Fly]
Move 3: Flamethrower / Will-o-Wisp
Move 4: Pain Split
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature(s): Bold, Calm
EVs: Ordered HP252/Def252/SpD6/
Ultimate fighting counter. This set was designed to deal with Roobushin and does very will against virtually any other physical attacker. It's highlight feature is Hidden Power Flying. It's main purpose is to deflect and defeat a fighting pokemon's ability to stat up and sweep and with Haze this is achievable. From the Smogon Damage Calc -
Calculator: AttackingMachamp Dynamic Punch = 17.1% - 20.1%
Calculator: Attacking MachampDynamic Punch w/+2atk = 34.1% - 40.1%
This set is also great at taking Payback. Another strong and risky attack when trying to switch in a pokemon to counter Roobushin. After a single bulk up Roobushin's Payback will allow him to hit Ghost types and everyother type for at least neutral. How do we stop this massacre?
Weezing (60) naturally outspeeds Roobushin (45) in base speed meaning it can be thrown in the second Roobushin is brought out with zero hassle. Weezing will probably outspeed and can either Haze away Roobushin's stat up's, or it can begin hacking away with Hidden Power[Fly]. Flamethrower to deal with steel types.
Calculator:Panting HP Fly vs. 252HP Roobushin = 27.3% - 32.6%
At this point, the Roob user will be going for another bulk up to power up Payback. This is when you may haze, setting Roobushin back while making it clear that you are it's maker. Even criticals will do little at this point. Pain Split will restore the HP Roobushin so rudely stole with it's bulked up Drain Punch. Moreover, Weezings tankage is not in it's base HP rather, in it's Defensive base. This fact punishes Roobushin's gluttonous 105 base HP and the restorations will always favore Weezing.
Will-o-Wisp is a better alternative on a team that already has a solid fighting counter. I chose flamethrower because Machamp, Roobushin, Hariyama, Heracross all have Guts. Why not Psybeam? I like HP Fly because it's a tad stronger, also, more Fighting types are weak against Flying then Psychic. Flying is a better offensive typing anyway. You could use Psybeam if you wanted to for confusion if anything.
If you can find a better Roobushin counter (or) fighting counter in general. Don't be afraid to hit me up. I love an easy challenge.
I had this in mind for a long time.
Ludicolo @ Big Root
Ability: Rain Dish or Swift swim/ depends on how you want to use it, but rain dish is preferable to get subseeding as efficient as possible.
Nature: Calm
EVs: 232 HP/ 216 SpD/ 60 Sp.atk.
Moves:
-Substitute
-HP Flying
-Leech Seed
-Surf
notes: As i have not yet known how big root truly functions, i've read it benefits leech seed well, so utilizing this set makes the opponent's predicting venusaur, take a hit from hp flying when it switches in at ludicolo after it has put up a sub on the first pokemon. and getting unscathed by switching after it's sub has been completely removed by foe venusaur. this also helps to counter bug types and fighting types expecting to counter ludicolo quite easily while still getting damaged in turn, thanks to a substitute. The speed is replaced with sp.atk to maximize hp flying damage.
Ludicolo @ Big Root
Ability: Rain Dish or Swift swim/ depends on how you want to use it, but rain dish is preferable to get subseeding as efficient as possible.
Nature: Calm
EVs: 232 HP/ 216 SpD/ 60 Sp.atk.
Moves:
-Substitute
-HP Flying
-Leech Seed
-Surf
notes: As i have not yet known how big root truly functions, i've read it benefits leech seed well, so utilizing this set makes the opponent's predicting venusaur, take a hit from hp flying when it switches in at ludicolo after it has put up a sub on the first pokemon. and getting unscathed by switching after it's sub has been completely removed by foe venusaur. this also helps to counter bug types and fighting types expecting to counter ludicolo quite easily while still getting damaged in turn, thanks to a substitute. The speed is replaced with sp.atk to maximize hp flying damage.
Wouldn't Giga Drain be better than HP Flying on that set? Just a thought.
No, the idea of HP Flying is to stop Pokemon which are immune to Leech Seed, but I would still recommend HP Psychic for them most of time, because it hits others too. However, are you planning on using it in UU or OU? Also, this set is already on site, just without Big Root and HP Psychic/Flying. However, Lefties is better than Big Root unless you are up against Blissey or something, and generally the other options like Rain Dance are better than Hidden Power, to increase healing, although you will definitely need something to hit the Venusaurs out there. It seems like a good set, because of the niche with Rain Dish, and you want to play to that as much as possible.
Like Atheno said, Big Root is basically always inferior to Leftovers with only a couple of exceptions (Blissey).
That Quick Claw Swampert up there is awful, sorry. There's nothing wrong with CursePert (although you'll want Rest) but Quick Claw is just useless compared to Leftovers for that set.
Finally, the Weezing set is pretty close to standard, which uses Will-o-wisp, Pain Split, and usually two coverage moves, or one attack and something else. Haze is an okay option for one of those last two, although it will sometimes be redundant alongside Will-o-wisp.
However, HP Flying is a horrible idea. Even against Machamp it does 31% max. It doesn't even 2HKO SubSeed Breloom.
EDIT: Can I have some opinions on my Infernape set (post 1867) ???
That Quick Claw Swampert up there is awful, sorry. There's nothing wrong with CursePert (although you'll want Rest) but Quick Claw is just useless compared to Leftovers for that set.
Finally, the Weezing set is pretty close to standard, which uses Will-o-wisp, Pain Split, and usually two coverage moves, or one attack and something else. Haze is an okay option for one of those last two, although it will sometimes be redundant alongside Will-o-wisp.
However, HP Flying is a horrible idea. Even against Machamp it does 31% max. It doesn't even 2HKO SubSeed Breloom.
EDIT: Can I have some opinions on my Infernape set (post 1867) ???
I've been trying this set and haven't seen it onsite anywhere:
Magmortar@Salac Berry
Modest
252 spatk 216speed 44def
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Hidden Power Ice
Endure
Thunderbolt
Much like the Choice Scarf set except this requires prediction to use, however it allows the freedom and power of the Choice Scarf set and some added benefits. Also doesn't mind SR on the field.
Use Endure when you predict a KO, activating Salac when reaching 1 hp and allows a sweep. The neat thing about Flame Body is that most priority moves are physical and all of them are contact. 30% to burn a revenge killer
Thoughts? Endure+Salac can work on any pokemon
Magmortar@Salac Berry
Modest
252 spatk 216speed 44def
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Hidden Power Ice
Endure
Thunderbolt
Much like the Choice Scarf set except this requires prediction to use, however it allows the freedom and power of the Choice Scarf set and some added benefits. Also doesn't mind SR on the field.
Use Endure when you predict a KO, activating Salac when reaching 1 hp and allows a sweep. The neat thing about Flame Body is that most priority moves are physical and all of them are contact. 30% to burn a revenge killer
Thoughts? Endure+Salac can work on any pokemon
I haven't tried Quick Stall, but that Infernape does look good. To be honest, it plays so differently to other sets that it would be hard to test without playtesting, but it looks like it could do really well, assuming you could get down all of the entry hazards that you would need. All I can really say though, is kudos for coming up with what is probably the only genuinely creative moveset in some time.
I've been trying this set and haven't seen it onsite anywhere:
Magmortar@Salac Berry
Modest
252 spatk 216speed 44def
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Hidden Power Ice
Endure
Thunderbolt
Much like the Choice Scarf set except this requires prediction to use, however it allows the freedom and power of the Choice Scarf set and some added benefits. Also doesn't mind SR on the field.
Use Endure when you predict a KO, activating Salac when reaching 1 hp and allows a sweep. The neat thing about Flame Body is that most priority moves are physical and all of them are contact. 30% to burn a revenge killer
Thoughts? Endure+Salac can work on any pokemon
Endure + Salac comes up every now and then, but it really doesn't work. Between Priority moves, Scarfers and Weather, the likelyhood of it actually working is minimal, and even if it does outspeed something Magmortar does not have the firepower or movepool to make it word. You are better off with things like Lucario, which is immune to sand and Poison and has a priority move, or Mamoswine, which is immune to all weather, has a priority move, and can do something like Endeavour + Ice Shard for a guaranteed kill.
Thanks for the comment, I know it gets hampered by priority and I guess that's the main reason why Endure + Salac doesn't show on site sets often
Well, since leech seed is said to be compatible with big root, imo, i don't think so. but, it would be nice if i could just replace leech seed for giga drain for a more unique set.
and yes, i just copied the spreads and replaced the speed with sp.atk, since im not very knowledgeable about evs that much. Thanks for the thumbs up, and yes for countering venusaur since it appears on almost everybody's team.
edit: id like to use it for UU.
I was putting big root, for a novelty sort of look on the ludicolo set, since i wanted to make a unique set on this one, but if leech seed doesn't do much when its in effect in tandem with big root, i would consider changing it to leftovers, for additional healing against pokemon which resist leech seed. Thanks.
Sweeping Smeargle
Smeargle
Sweeper
dragon Rage
Agility
Spore
Endeavor
Own tempo
Focus Sash
Naive
252spe/the rest doesnt matter so long its not defenses or HP
Noone expects a sweeping Smeargle, I use Agility, becoming faster than even Darkrai and Jolteon, then (with 1HP remaining) I sweep with Spore Endeavor and dragon rage, only stopped by abnormally early wake ups, vital spirit, (they still get endeavored) Early bird, ghosts or priority moves, the latter can be fixed with atk EVs and Xtremspd, but has issues wit leftovers
Smeargle
Sweeper
dragon Rage
Agility
Spore
Endeavor
Own tempo
Focus Sash
Naive
252spe/the rest doesnt matter so long its not defenses or HP
Noone expects a sweeping Smeargle, I use Agility, becoming faster than even Darkrai and Jolteon, then (with 1HP remaining) I sweep with Spore Endeavor and dragon rage, only stopped by abnormally early wake ups, vital spirit, (they still get endeavored) Early bird, ghosts or priority moves, the latter can be fixed with atk EVs and Xtremspd, but has issues wit leftovers
You forgot Taunt and weather also stop this
not to mention, that without extremespeed, i think practically everything with extremespeed, quick attack, aqua jet, bullet punch, mach punch, sucker punch, and vacuum wave can stop this set, if the opponents are faster than smeargle.
Smeargle needs one turn to use Agility; until then it's slow and anything that outspeeds will break its Sash. This is similar to the Trick Room set on Smogon; I think the TR set is more useful for your team because if Smeargle should get KO'ed you can bring in a slow Pokemon to revenge.
For the Quickstall Infernape, it's unconventional but Infernape is so frail that it's going to be hard to switch into an attacking move. However, if your opponent expects you to switch to Ape and sets up anything that's no speed or TR, you're golden.
And when you have one hp, you'll be killed because of sandstorm or hail.
not really, considering the average sleep time is 2 turns, so it can't sweep, and it's only capable off taking out 1 poke and endeavoring the next, while mine sweeps, sometimes instantly winning, the worse smeargle ran into on pkmn online was choice scarf shandera with shadow tag, but the absolute best an unprepared team did was wait until a lucario (5th poke) woke up early, it got endeavored and revenge killed easily leaving the scoreboard at 5[me] to 1[him] so MUHAHAHA to you! Oh, and 1 more thing:
SHUCKLE RULES ALL!!!
Bibarel@Something(still indecisive, just slapped random items on usually Lefties, Wise Glasses, Expert Belt, Lum Berry etc.)
Special Attacker/Defender
Modest/Calm Nature
Simple
252 Sp.Def/Sp.Atk/4 HP
-Charge Beam
-Amnesia/Super Fang
-Surf
-Ice Beam
I know this is SUPER-weird but in NU it actually works really well at killing off various threats after one or even two Charge Beams with a pseudo-Bolt Beam and Water STAB. Amnesia provides REALLY good Special Bulk and whenever Bibarel is faster than a Sp. Attacker it either causes a switch or gets to set up with CBeam. I still have no idea regarding the best item, but it's my only adventurous Pokemon, and often my cartridge opponents have no idea about what to do to Bibarel. Unfortunately, it is killed by many physical attackers, but it's designed to set-up on a Special Attacker or Defensive Pokemon.
Special Attacker/Defender
Modest/Calm Nature
Simple
252 Sp.Def/Sp.Atk/4 HP
-Charge Beam
-Amnesia/Super Fang
-Surf
-Ice Beam
I know this is SUPER-weird but in NU it actually works really well at killing off various threats after one or even two Charge Beams with a pseudo-Bolt Beam and Water STAB. Amnesia provides REALLY good Special Bulk and whenever Bibarel is faster than a Sp. Attacker it either causes a switch or gets to set up with CBeam. I still have no idea regarding the best item, but it's my only adventurous Pokemon, and often my cartridge opponents have no idea about what to do to Bibarel. Unfortunately, it is killed by many physical attackers, but it's designed to set-up on a Special Attacker or Defensive Pokemon.
If you switch at 1HP, you aren't bringing him back in if there are hazards/Sandstorm/Hail on the field.
It's a set that can catch unprepared teams off-guard, but a team that doesn't have priority moves isn't a very good team.
And what team doesn't at least have one sleep absorber / ghost / priority? This set is so unbelievably flawed against at least a competent team. Furthermore, this set, funnily enough, can't beat blissey or chansey with leftovers as 6% of their hp is larger than the 40 damage that dragon rage does.
In other words, the TR smeargle lead is actually better, due to it doing exactly the same thing but also setting up TR for other members of your team (which could be potentially bad, but having it as a standalone lead is pretty... dumb).