SM OU NEW STALL TEAM?

[Bagaço]

Hi everybody, I tried to use this team that a guy send me, after the ban of Arena Trap. I like it but im always have trouble agaisnt M-Pinsir, M-Gyarados, M-Charizard X and M-Swampert in rain, and have not spikes and only 1 mon have Toxic. can you tell me what i need to change here?? I really try to use stall with fat mons as possible. Here's the explanation:

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

The classic set, much bulky as possible to hold mix attackers and special attackers, and a Stealth Rocker of the team.

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Counter
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Defog

Another classic physical wall and my favourite to this role, Counter to OHKO thinks like M-Medichan, Keldeo, M-Luponny and to hold Landorus, Whirlwind to help Clefable to hold setup sweepers because i have not Toxapex Haze. Defog to clear hazzards from our side.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy

This is my favourite pokemon in OU of all the time, because the magnific move pool. This case is the cleric of the team with Aromatherapy and wish passer, to heal herself and pass wish to Weavile and Heatran if necessary. Unaware and max defense to secure strong physical attackers and Moonblast to hit hard things like Sub Coil Zygarde and Kyurem Black.

Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

I use Latias here because is more defensive than Latios, and as fast as possible to hit pokemons that i could be problem, Thunderbolt to hit bulky water types and in special Manaphy and Kingdra, and to help with Rain Team. Ice Beam to Landorus, Garchomp and other dragons and flying types. Double Defog here because i Dont have M-Sableye.

Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

It's another classic set, to help specially to trap Tapu Lele after Ban Of Arena Trap. Pursuit to Tapu Lele and Mega-Alakazam, Knock Off is the STAB to hit hard and cripple other mons in the switch, it's always very useful, Icicle Crush to hit hard Zygarde and break substitute, as well to hit hard Tangrowth and Mega Venasaur, Ice Shard to kill pokemons with low hp left. Max speed Jolly to be as fast as possible and Choice Band to hit very hard with Pursuit, i Coudn't run Life Orb here because the hp waste to fast and im always changing pokemon, so there's no problem to being locked with band.

Heatran @ Groundium Z/ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

I really hated this pokemon during much time, because subs set and use against my beloved Stall, but Dugtrio always kill it xD I choose it specially cause i need a thing to criplle Steel Types, like Magearna, Celeestela, Sharmory and Ferrothorn, and bulky pokemons like Toxapex that Toxic doesnt affect, and to help against strong physical attackers. Taunt to prevent set up and healing moves, Magma Storm to Trap and help against Steel Types and Bulky grass, Earth Power with Groundium Z to hit opposing Heatran and Toxapex. We can run here Grassium Z otherwise to hit Tapu Fini, but usually i use Chansey for it.


I hope you can me help with it and change things to make it better, and Stall never dies <3 Thanks :)

 

[LiamTheCursed]

If you are going to put grassium z on he at ran, please put tell us what move gets replaced with solar beam

 

[Bagaço]

if we use grassium z i replace Taunt With Solarbeam, but i personally prefer the set ive put here :)

 

[NVT_Sart]

Some Things I noted right away:

- Chansey is your only Lele switchin since your Heatran uses an offensive set. This means you'll inevitably lose something before being able to POTENTIALLY trap it with weavile
- Skarmory, Latias and Clefable can run 252 hp EVs over 248, since they won't take more hazard damage from it (if you don't know how to calc that, let me know, I'll give you a quick guide), and having a slight boost in the defensive stat they mainly use does more than having a slight boost in the defensive stat they shouldn't be using most of the time.
- Without Toxic on Skarmory you're letting Z move + SR lando do whatever it wants to you
- Your anti-hazard measures let common Setters like Suicide Lead Excadrill, Azelf and Spikes/Dual Hazard Greninja do whatever they want
- With Heatran being an offensive set you have no switchin to Mega Mawile either
- You have no switchins to many of the HO Trends that have become common lately, like MGyara, Kartana, Stored Power Victini, etc.
- No switchin to Alolan Marowak
- Skarmory is BARELY a switchin to Mega Swampert, Waterfall hurts in Rain, and Flinches will end the game on the spot. Being weak to the traditionally best matchup for Stall is a harsh Thing

The Team itself is "ok", it's one of those Stall Teams that work because the majority of People you face will be bad, but it has quite a lot of flaws. Can give you a more detailled rate later when I'm back home

 

[Bagaço]

yes i dont know how to calcule stealth rock damage, it can be a great help for me if you send me a guide :) i apreciate your help, thanks :) i really try to play stall cause i really love fat mons, and all the people hated this :) its a little difficult now without duggy. When you back home and if you have time left for this, please say to me if you trade any pokemon, moveset and evs :) thanks

 

[NVT_Sart]

The underlying idea is:

You take the HP value with 248 EVs, and divide it by the fracture of damage the mon takes from Rocks (/8 if neutral), this is your hp value after switching into SR ONCE. Subtract the original value divided by fracture from the new value, this is your hp value after switching into SR a second time. Repeat this process for the HP value with 252 EVs. If the results are the same, you would take 1 Point of damage more when running 252 EVs over 248. If the results differ by 1, you take the same damage and can run with either, usually 252 if a mon is a dedicated physical or Special wall to bolster the according stat over the max of 252, but if it's a mixed wall you can also put it in either def or SPD.

Example: My mon has a HP value of 333 if I run 248 EVs and 334 if I run 252 EVs. Its typing is also neutral to Rock. So to see if I should run 248 or 252, I do the following calc:

333/8=41,6
333-41=292
292-(333/8)=~250

334/8=41,7
334-41=293
293-(334/8)=~251

You see, with both 248 or 252 EVs, the mon takes 83 damage from switching into rocks twice. So you can run either. Usually 252 for dedicated, 248 for mixed walls

 

[Bagaço]

It really helpful to me, thanks :)

 

[NVT_Sart]

It really helpful to me, thanks :)

Alright, finally got some time. No Problem btw, this is all just min/maxing, but will eventually matter later, so might as well learn it right away :P

So about your Team, some changes I would make are:

1) Make Heatran SPD + Leftovers. Sub/Magma/Taunt is an insane set, and really really strong, but I think for Stall it's not what you should be looking for. Running a defensive set (usually 248hp/220spd/40spe calm + leftovers) gives you both something that can Switch into Mega Mawile and handle it, as well as another check to Tapu Lele in the same Slot, which is really nice on Stall. Definitely run Lava Plume + Willowisp to burn MMaw and to boost your own attacks with Flash Fire on Mega Sableye in a Stall mirror. The last 2 Slots are more or less free, some Options are Toxic (although I wouldn't run double Status on the same set personally), Taunt, Protect, Stealth Rock (would free up a Slot on Chansey for another Utility move, or you can give Chansey Aromatherapy and free up a Slot on Clef), or even Rest which was used in late ORAS Stalls like ABR's Mega Altaria Team.

2) Skarmory is "ok", but it really suffers from all the Z moves running around on Mons like Lando or Kartana which it could normally check. Also as I mentioned earlier, Rocks Excadrill and Spikes Gren are really cancerous for your Team. Something you could consider would be replacing Skarm with either Zapdos or Mew. Mew handles many of the Things Skarm does, like Lando and Garchomp, but also gives you an additional "buffer" against other Things like Greninja without Dark Pulse etc. Zapdos on the other Hand can be EVd to just outspeed and kill Mega Pinsir or offensive Lando with TBolt/HP Ice respectively, or threaten Things like Ferrothorn, Kartana, Bisharp etc. with Heat Wave. It also deals with Mega Gyarados that doesn't run Substitute.

Even with those changes, Alolan Marowak is definitely a big issue for your Team, but tbf, it is for every Stall Team that doesn't run Hippowdon or Quagsire, so not sure how you could handle this. Another very threatening mon for your Team is Magic Guard Clefable, especially the Version with Knock Off + Stealth Rock. The only way you could Play around this would be to PP Stall it with Zapdos.

--

As a last note, I'm personally not a big fan of Weavile on Stall right now, but I know many others like using him, so I guess it's "OK" as a replacement for Duggy. One Thing you should always consider about Trappers though, is: Don't just put a random Trapper on your Team and call it a day. What your Trapper is supposed to do is, it has to TRAP and REVENGE KILL the Mons your Team can't handle otherwise. For a Pursuit Trapper like Weavile, this means that the Mons you want to trap Need to be OHKO'd or very Close to being OHKO'd by a Pursuit when switching, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME not being able to kill you instead if they stay in.

So if you look at the Mons that are threats to your Team, Heatran, Lele, Kartana, MGyara, MMaw, etc., the only one that is actually halfway threatened by Weavile is Lele. So you should think twice if it's really worth to dedicate a full teamslot for that, or if there aren't other ways of playing around the Mons in question.

Hope I was able to help you a bit, let me know if you got more questions!

Edit: My Zapdos set that I mentioned Looks like this:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

Mind that this isn't running Heat Wave, so Kartana, Ferrothorn etc. Need to be tackled otherwise. This is "only" to outspeed Lando, Pinsir, etc. and OHKO them (with Rocks for Lando) while being able to take any hit on the switch

 

[Bagaço]

i really like your improvement on this team :) its difficult to find a trapper right now. What you recommend to switch Weavile?
For Lele i could run flash cannon on heatran for example, and i can open a space for Hippowdon or Quagsire or other pokemon to really help the team. What you suggest? :) i change my set and Skarmory to Zapdos. Thanks :)

 

[legend slayer]

Hi everybody, I tried to use this team that a guy send me, after the ban of Arena Trap. I like it but im always have trouble agaisnt M-Pinsir, M-Gyarados, M-Charizard X and M-Swampert in rain, and have not spikes and only 1 mon have Toxic. can you tell me what i need to change here?? I really try to use stall with fat mons as possible. Here's the explanation:

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

The classic set, much bulky as possible to hold mix attackers and special attackers, and a Stealth Rocker of the team.

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Counter
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Defog

Another classic physical wall and my favourite to this role, Counter to OHKO thinks like M-Medichan, Keldeo, M-Luponny and to hold Landorus, Whirlwind to help Clefable to hold setup sweepers because i have not Toxapex Haze. Defog to clear hazzards from our side.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy

This is my favourite pokemon in OU of all the time, because the magnific move pool. This case is the cleric of the team with Aromatherapy and wish passer, to heal herself and pass wish to Weavile and Heatran if necessary. Unaware and max defense to secure strong physical attackers and Moonblast to hit hard things like Sub Coil Zygarde and Kyurem Black.

Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

I use Latias here because is more defensive than Latios, and as fast as possible to hit pokemons that i could be problem, Thunderbolt to hit bulky water types and in special Manaphy and Kingdra, and to help with Rain Team. Ice Beam to Landorus, Garchomp and other dragons and flying types. Double Defog here because i Dont have M-Sableye.

Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

It's another classic set, to help specially to trap Tapu Lele after Ban Of Arena Trap. Pursuit to Tapu Lele and Mega-Alakazam, Knock Off is the STAB to hit hard and cripple other mons in the switch, it's always very useful, Icicle Crush to hit hard Zygarde and break substitute, as well to hit hard Tangrowth and Mega Venasaur, Ice Shard to kill pokemons with low hp left. Max speed Jolly to be as fast as possible and Choice Band to hit very hard with Pursuit, i Coudn't run Life Orb here because the hp waste to fast and im always changing pokemon, so there's no problem to being locked with band.

Heatran @ Groundium Z/ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

I really hated this pokemon during much time, because subs set and use against my beloved Stall, but Dugtrio always kill it xD I choose it specially cause i need a thing to criplle Steel Types, like Magearna, Celeestela, Sharmory and Ferrothorn, and bulky pokemons like Toxapex that Toxic doesnt affect, and to help against strong physical attackers. Taunt to prevent set up and healing moves, Magma Storm to Trap and help against Steel Types and Bulky grass, Earth Power with Groundium Z to hit opposing Heatran and Toxapex. We can run here Grassium Z otherwise to hit Tapu Fini, but usually i use Chansey for it.


I hope you can me help with it and change things to make it better, and Stall never dies <3 Thanks :)

A few changes id suggest would be subs toxic tran and cm stored power latias with surf, both of which will help u v marowak, and surf latias lets u hit ttar if ur unfortunate enough to switch him in forgetting it and u know its gonna pursuit, also ur team really cant beat chansey easily, and that helps since u can toxic then trap with magma storm, or at least do enough that weav can pick up the kill. U have a nice core to beat weather, although u need to keep both chansey and scarm alive to beat it, and since u want weav swithced out, try something like kartana with fightinium sd for chansey, should help u out a bit since toxic wont touch u.

 

[NVT_Sart]

i really like your improvement on this team :) its difficult to find a trapper right now. What you recommend to switch Weavile?
For Lele i could run flash cannon on heatran for example, and i can open a space for Hippowdon or Quagsire or other pokemon to really help the team. What you suggest? :) i change my set and Skarmory to Zapdos. Thanks :)

I think to Switch Weavile out or Change the Team to better fit around Weavile would mean too many changes here. Usually we try to Change as few Things as possible to make a Team viable in the RMT Forum/room, because else it's just "Teambuilding for someone else" x)

I just wanted you to know what to look out for when including a Trapper like Weavile in your future teambuilding processes

 

[Bagaço]

This time i incluid Weaville especially because Lele but like you said, and well this is a wasted slot, cause Lele i can handle more of the cases with chansey. And i have hpice and ice beam on latias. If i keep weaville i can run low kick for chansey for example. But i really want to change it. In latias this could be a good suggestion put surf cause i have now zapdos with thunderbolt and hpice. What you are the best change here? Best replace for weaville?

 

[legend slayer]

This time i incluid Weaville especially because Lele but like you said, and well this is a wasted slot, cause Lele i can handle more of the cases with chansey. And i have hpice and ice beam on latias. If i keep weaville i can run low kick for chansey for example. But i really want to change it. In latias this could be a good suggestion put surf cause i have now zapdos with thunderbolt and hpice. What you are the best change here? Best replace for weaville?

That grammar is awful my mans, but honestly i would use carf lart or foghtinium kart as ur not running a committed stall team oddly enough, and kart gives u power u need for this. Could also try something like icium kyurem black, because with ur mega lati set mega venu destroys this team

 

[NVT_Sart]

That grammar is awful my mans, but honestly i would use carf lart or foghtinium kart as ur not running a committed stall team oddly enough, and kart gives u power u need for this. Could also try something like icium kyurem black, because with ur mega lati set mega venu destroys this team

I'm not gonna Point out the irony of your own post being stacked with grammar Errors and typos x)

You're mostly right though, especially Kyurem Looks nice, but then again, if you go all the way of running Kyube on this Team, you might as well stick with Weavile. Or run Subroost regular Kyurem to stall out stuff like Koko and MMaw.

What I'm gonna do now is most likely against the Spirit of RMT, but Bagaço if you're interested, my good friend I like Pink Mons made a pretty nice new Mega Latias Semistall team with Kyurem-Black that you might be interested in

 

[Bagaço]

I really apreciatte if you could send me your team. Ita to me a plesure nd i really love stall :) i will wait for this. Thanks for your kindness and dedication NVT_Sart :)