Metagame Next Steps

[xzeroxman]

Firstly, thanks for your thoughtful answers, I appreciate it! I'll be asking for a bit of clarification on one point and providing a quick response with my thoughts to one other.

given that we tier with what we have, and that current terablast usage is all time low, it is safe to assume this is not being done because of the present but rather the past. we have banned terablast mons in the past, and i dont like the present, therefore we go back and undo the past. it is pretty much stated like that in every single pro suspect post.

this is a fair critique. in my defense, there are levels to this. we dont know what will happen if we ban x and unban y because there is no close precedent to it, it would be purely theoretical. however, there is precedent of base torchic. a lot of it. actually 6 generations of it being unviable, and it had hidden power!! there is also the use of common sense while looking at its movepool and sets we used in the past. it gets no moves. we always used terablast because else it would only be using fire type moves. it needed the coverage, so without it, itll be useless, just like all these past years

For the first point, I think I understand what you mean by "Don't like the tier" a bit better now. I took it as a "Disliking the tier as a whole" where I believe you mean just a part of it (I hope that is right). It clears some of my initial confusion up. I will agree to the point that the pro suspect post are saying we should go back and undo it and ban blast instead. I don't see why this isn't / wouldn't be valid option, or maybe it is and you just disagree which is fine. It was my understanding that many of these bans were in large part due to tera blast and when that abuser was removed another rose to prevalence to then be subsequently removed. If this pattern is repeated as we remove mons (not removing Tera blast in part for fear of not knowing what the result will look like) I think it is a fair critique to examine the reason behind the pattern with enough data points. For me personally I think we have reached that junction. Others may see it differently. I would be interested in hearing how you approach this issue and your thoughts on it.

As for the second comment, you are right that we should apply common sense when looking at move pools and historic data. I am by no means an every gen LC player so my perspective is very different on that. I'm not entirely certain what mons should be unbanned which is why I didn't venture to explain my thoughts on each until I have given it more thought and read more arguments. I think it's a difficult position to figure out, but I think if we tackle it as a community the result could have a lot of promise.

 

[wail]

I am strongly opposed to banning tera blast and this is why:

1. The current state of the metagame. Is this ban needed ?

Right now there is not a clear evidence of a certain mon being broken. Furthermore, Shellder was banned a month and a half ago, which is not enough time to let the metagame develop. You might like or dislike this metagame as you might have more or less fun, but arguing that it is not competitive and needs action at this moment it is not a valid statement you can make, at least not yet.

2. The timing.

Our schedule is pretty tight. We have lc open going on right now (the most important lc individual tournament) and lcpl is happening soon (the most important lc team tournament). After lcpl we got scl. Making such a huge change to the tier would compromise the competitive nature of the most important tournaments of the year. Arguing that other lower tiers banned tera blast during open is not a valid counterpoint since their tiers are different, perhaps in those metagames there is a huge need of immediate action. We shouldn't follow blindly other tiers course of action, as we are more than capable of deliberate for our own: other lower tiers made this wack decision but we shouldn't follow their steps. I think the correct decision is to wait until the end of the generation. When the tier becomes an old gen we will have all the time in the world to ban tera blast, terastalization or do nothing, whatever seems best when time comes.

3. Policy.

Our dear tiering policy states clearly that we should ban mons instead of moves: I.) Simplicity, Consistency, and Minimizing Complexity and II.) Preservation of Identity. In spite of agreeing that the vast majority of the banned mons this generation were banned due to their access to Tera Blast, there are some cases in which this isn't true or at least, it can not be confidently stated (Voltorb-H, Gastly, Rufflet, Shellder...). In order to be able to ban Tera Blast, arguing that all the mons that were banned were banned due to Tera Blast would be necessary. Otherwise only some would be unbanned and some others wouldn't be tested without Tera Blast which is inefficient. The move might only be considered as broken if all the mons that have access to the move are broken, which is clearly not the case. Even the best mon in the generation (Mienfoo) doesn't use it often.

 

[gali]

I'm retired so I don't have a dog in this fight, but there seems to be real division here about how to proceed reading through this thread. The current SV meta is largely fine and competitive but suffers from same-ness with a limited mon pool, which could be (at least somewhat) mitigated by banning Tera Blast and unbanning several Pokemon who are only broken because of the move. IMO a good next step might be to host one or more tours with Tera Blast banned and several mons unbanned, so people can see for themselves if the resulting meta is enough of an improvement to justify a shakeup. We still have ~a year of SV left, so we've got plenty of time to make sure we get this decision right.

 

[emptywisdom]

I would like to say that I am running an SVLC +aipom tour and its still very strong without tail slap

and also, while I acknowledge and perhaps agree with the more articulate advocacy of a tera blast ban, the common consensus is largely reactionary and bored mainer syndrome. I believe that we could take action, but it should not be because of a common consensus.

my personal opinion:
tera blast is fun and it allows a lot of otherwise bad mons to be used. this ban would not expand our list of viable mons: it would shrink it.