• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

NFE Pokemon in UU

Status
Not open for further replies.
For one, you have to consider both Hippopotas and Snover - these two, statswise, would be considered NU pokemon no doubt (without their ability) - Good luck actually trying to do anything with them, you will essentially be playing 5 versus 6 the whole game.
Click to expand...

Snover probably, Hippopotas not so much. 340/280 HP/Defense may pale in comparison to Sandslash, but is still decent enough to take a couple of hits on the physical side, and still has reliable recovery, Stealth Rock and the ability to PHaze. STAB Earthquake off 181 Attack is also still reasonably powerful, although unSTAB'd attacks are now out of the question. Nothing amazing, but far from dead weight after weather setup.

Furthermore, good luck keeping them alive - since Sunny Day and Rain Dance users are widespread in UU and far more common than in the above Tiers, all it takes is one Victrebell to use Sunny Day once after your Snover has been blown to hell by Spearow's Peck and your whole team is essentially fucked.
Click to expand...

True, but the fact that permanent weather is available basically forces teams to either always carry weather changers, abuse the infinite weather themselves, or base their entire team around countering Sand/Hail teams. All include centralization of some sort, which is what UU should be looking to avoid.

There may be one or two pokemon, as previously mentioned, who, especially in hail, outclass the rest of UU, but it could be easier to just put those few in BL. Also, I don't quite see pokemon which become overpowered by the existance of Hippopotas in UU.
Click to expand...

Cradily and Shuckle become virtually invincible on the special side, Cacturne becomes annoying as fuck as a SubDancer, whilst the likes of Probopass, Golem and Magcargo also get a much welcome boost to their special defense, although still have major weak points. Just a few examples off the top of my head.

EDIT: What Shiny Oddish said also. Need to type faster.
 
So basically add Machoke to the QMI list for No Guard DynamicPunch. What sucks in UU is that other than Rotom/Banette you have no ghosts if you ban NFE's. Your counters would have a 50% chance of being screwed.

In the end, I fear there no matter how much argument is made there may still be those who reject the theorymon relating to the weatherchanger NFE's, but someday in the vague and distant future we'll do the tests to really figure out the UU boundaries. Someday...

In the meantime, we just opened up the pool to tons of pokemon. Also, nice to see on the previous page my some of my positions backed up by others.

If we can standardize and proliferate that list of banned NFE's, then there is no reason why arguments over NFE banned status should ruin UU battles.
 
So basically add Machoke to the QMI list for No Guard DynamicPunch. What sucks in UU is that other than Rotom/Banette you have no ghosts if you ban NFE's. Your counters would have a 50% chance of being screwed.
Click to expand...
If NFEs are banned then No Guard Dynamicpunch isn't even an issue as Machoke is a banned Pokemon. Besides, even if that were the case, what NFE Ghosts are you thinking of exactly? Gastly? Duskull? I hardly think those are viable even in UU competition, and I think everything else is either already UU (you're forgetting Drifblim, Sableye and Froslass, possibly Shedinja, not sure if a consensus was reached there) or banned by general consensus (Haunter, Dusclops).

Also, what do you mean by 50% chance of being screwed?
 
Bliksem said:
Probably the damage caused by when confusion hits.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was kinda in a rush out when making that post, and soon after I realized that might be what he was getting at. But of course in practice it is always much more complicated than that as obviously you aren't just countering Dynamicpunch but Machoke himself, who has three other attacks and is capable of hitting any Ghost resist barring Sableye super effectively.
Now of course that could be said about a lot of Pokemon in UU, but what makes Machoke stand out is, even if you predict Dynamicpunch with Claydol for example, you have a 50% chance of hitting yourself rather than getting off a Psychic or Reflect, after which you could be facing a super effective Payback or Ice Punch, possibly boosted by Expert Belt too, which I guess would really 'screw' you over. So yes, after saying all that in a roundabout kinda way I understand more clearly what DF was talking about.
 
the thing about machoke is that it has 100 bese attack (not bad but not great) and 45 base speed. 45. it will be revenged with ease and other than NG DP it has pretty much no tricks up it sleve. if you bring a ghost in on DP you will avoid confution and (pretty much always) outspeed, KOing its not that hard ether, any powerful or SE hit should KO it.
 
if u train a well balanced team imo you can beat any pokemon raither it's OU or UU really even chansey and blissey can go down pretty fast and Scizor can be faster then scyther if IV and Ev trained right had a Scizor in Gold verson that was faster then my friends Scyther btw i hardly have anything with quick attack...lol just balance out a moveset pool of each pokemon on your team so you can be prepared for anyfight no matter what your against unless is Spiritbomb(no weakness) >.< but this is just my opinion =)
 
kailex1 said:
if u train a well balanced team imo you can beat any pokemon raither it's OU or UU really even chansey and blissey can go down pretty fast and Scizor can be faster then scyther if IV and Ev trained right had a Scizor in Gold verson that was faster then my friends Scyther btw i hardly have anything with quick attack...lol just balance out a moveset pool of each pokemon on your team so you can be prepared for anyfight no matter what your against unless is Spiritbomb(no weakness) >.< but this is just my opinion =)
Click to expand...
Uh... thanks for the really generic teambuilding tip, but that's kinda irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Even though Machoke has No Guard DP, 45 base speed and 80/70/60 defensive stats aren't doing it much favors in terms of survivability.
 
Um. What?

But yea, Machoke easily goes down. If we allow Machoke, then there's the possibility for other NFE ghosts to be introduced, which helps out with the number of powerful fighters in UU overall.
 
I'm so tired of all these " oh no, it's dangerous" NFEs. A lot of people don't know how powerful some UUs are. Some guy earlier said that "Cranidos would destroy UU, it has 383 attack!!!!" and another person said "Cubone will overcentralize the uu metagame" and another still said "happiny would be the best uu special wall". Another still said "nothing in UU could take on Gabite".

I'm serious, Machoke has a whopping 100 base attack! OH MY!! Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Granbull, Golem Toxicroak, Pinsir, Crawdaunt, Sharpedo, Hariyama, Absol, Armaldo Primape... even OCTILLERY, have much more than this. The whole "No Guard" gimmick isn't enough to save this pokemon, especially when it has 45 base speed.



It shouldn't be a question of how strong they are (believe me, pinsir, claydol and omastar are far better than any NFE) but if they bring anything interesting to the game. Obviously kadabra, gabite and haunter would be OU lite... but something like Scyther, who is different from Scizor, would be cool in UU. It's interesting, it's strong, and it's unique. Electabuzz plays differently than the underwhelming Electivire... and would be quite fun. Magmar needs some love, lets all pretend the Magmortar thing never happened -_-

We should also consider pokemon that are NEEDED in UU. Right now, it's really lacking in walls, so I think that Gligar, Misdreavus and Tangela would help a lot. Even though they're similar to their evolutions, they really help balance UU. Tangela is a neat alternative to Meganium, and gets Knock Off. Gligar is just cool... I mean his tongue is sticking out! It stops Pinsir and Hitmonlee quite well. Lastly, Misdreavus helps stop all those fighting types... and with only a couple of ghost options, I think it's OK. It even gets Pain Split.



Also, I don't think we should let in NFE's that aren't necessary. Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Whiscash are all better than Marshtomp, so he isn't needed. Try and think like that before recommending an NFE.
 
Obviously kadabra, gabite and haunter would be OU lite... but something like Scyther, who is different from Scizor, would be cool in UU. It's interesting, it's strong, and it's unique. Electabuzz plays differently than the underwhelming Electivire... and would be quite fun. Magmar needs some love, lets all pretend the Magmortar thing never happened -_-
Click to expand...
We should also consider pokemon that are NEEDED in UU. Right now, it's really lacking in walls, so I think that Gligar, Misdreavus and Tangela would help a lot. Even though they're similar to their evolutions, they really help balance UU. Tangela is a neat alternative to Meganium, and gets Knock Off. Gligar is just cool... I mean his tongue is sticking out! It stops Pinsir and Hitmonlee quite well. Lastly, Misdreavus helps stop all those fighting types... and with only a couple of ghost options, I think it's OK. It even gets Pain Split.
Click to expand...
I don't think NFE's should be judged for whether or not they're classified as OU-lite, rather if they over centralized the UU metagame at hand. I mean your presenting a double standard right there.

If a pokemon overcentralizes the UU metagame it should just be banned, period. Not have some preconceived notion such as OU-lite attached to it preventing it from being used. Let's be honest, there aren't many pokemon that are pre evolutions that can be used due to inferior base stats or those in UU already simply outclass them.

I don't know for sure if you were arguing against OU-lite, if not then my point is moot.

Gligar would be great in UU to help deal with the fighters and such, but he has also gained alot in the RSE-DP transition, so he'd have to be tested. Tangela... All in all is not a good option in UU, sure Knock Off is good but when compared to the likes of Meganium and Vileplume both of which can heal the teams status and actually take an ice beam it falls short.

Also, I don't think we should let in NFE's that aren't necessary. Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Whiscash are all better than Marshtomp, so he isn't needed. Try and think like that before recommending an NFE.
Click to expand...
As insignificant as this is, banning a pokemon is the most severe and drastic move one can make and only should be reserved for those who over centralize the metagame, not pathetic heaps that no one users in the first place.

I mean if you took this idea and put it forth for every metagame many pokemon would have to be banned on the account that ubers basically make them redundant.

I mean I think it would be pretty pathetic if someone was banned from a tournament for using Marshtomp x_x
 
I support a tier system where every Pokémon in the game can be included. We have a tier for Little Cup (e.g. Chimchar) and a tier for OU (e.g. Infernape) but nothing for the thing in-between (e.g. Monferno). The thing is, these Pokémon should also have a chance to showcase their talents. Therefore, that means there are two groups:
1) Mainstream (uber, ou, bl, uu and nu)
2) Little Cup (uber, ou, bl, uu and nu)
Ten tiers. Who's with me?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top