NFE NFE Resources

[85percent]

(Putting this here, since people pointed out that it makes more sense than in the metagame thread)

There has been some discussion recently (mostly on Discord) regarding the Viability Ranking, which I'd like to share my opinion on.

Point #1 was that the lower ranks - mostly C-, partly C and C+ - list Pokemon that are not actually viable enough to deserve to be on the VR. #2 was that some of the Pokemon in higher ranks - mostly around B - are too closely clustered and not distinquished enough in terms of viability. The points are related and a consequence of us following a predetermined number of ranks.

When I make my personal VR for teambuilding, I usually sort all Pokemon I consider viable enough to use in order of viability - without grouping them in categories / ranks. There are two reasons I can think of why this can't be done with an official VR: 1) It is really hard to objectively order every Pokemon by viability, because some differences are just too small to matter. 2) A list like that has no indicator for when you start to venture into more niche territory. On my own VR I intuitively know, where there are certain gaps in viability. In that sense my list, too, has ranks, even if they aren't explicit.
Now it is important to realize that you don't find these ranks by cutting the viability list into even pieces, but by looking for gaps in viability - as a consequence there's no guarantee that all ranks will be equally big. When ordering Pokemon into the official VR, we have category descriptions as guidelines.

As an example, look at the descriptions of B and C:
B: Reserved for Pokemon that work well in the meta or can provide valuable niches, but otherwise have large competition or flaws that make them not as viable as A-Rank Pokemon.
C: Reserved for Pokemon that have a notable niche, but are generally outclassed or have major flaws that hold them back.

These descriptions might have been made with the intention of more objective placings, but they are quite subjective, and there's a reason why a lot of tiers have given up on them. What is a 'valuable' niche, and what a 'notable' niche. What is a 'major' flaw compared to just a flaw? And do these qualities actually capture viability enough to a point where following these descriptions leads to a ranking where Pokemon in one rank are close in overall viability, better than those in the category below, and worse than those in the category above? Not necessarily in my opinion.

Overall I think the current issues we have, gradually came into existence over time by trying to balance the two approaches.

But enough on how I think it came to this. I have been advocating for an overhaul of the low ranks when I joined. I would never ever touch C- (or the majority of C, and a part of C+ for that matter) when building a serious team. Is there a difference between trying to make Loudred work and trying to make Metapod work? Sure. Does it really matter in competitive play? No. For stuff to be on a healthy VR, it's not enough that you can make it work. It has to be the best alternative in a certain situation. For a C- Pokemon, that situation doesn't have to be common, but it has to exist. Removing the lower portion of the VR, and stretching the higher categories down would bring us closer to that. To clarify: I don't mean deleting the C- Rank. I mean removing (most of) the Pokemon currently in there, and subsequently moving Pokemon from the higher categories down.


Anyway, this is just my opinion on the matter. I - and others - would really appreciate it if people shared their opinion on this. Discord discussions can be fruitful, but this is just the best place to discuss something like this, and have others be able to follow it. Lastly I also want to reiterate that this post is my opinion on the matter - it has nothing to do with council.

 

[Rav3]

Following on from 85 and discord discussion, I also agree that the current structure of the VR is less then ideal.
My feelings are similar to 85s that the viability description for each rank/sub rank are also overly subjective and encourage the ranking of a considerable amount of mons that are either completely outclassed or do not hold a viable niche.
A good example of this is the ranking of swift swim users. I would consider rain to be a completely unviable archetype, therefore rain abusers do not have a viable niche and should probably not be ranked on the VR. Alternatively another mon that was discussed as an example is Farfetch’d-Galar, which whilst outclassed as an offensive fighting type, still holds a viable niche as a defogger that beats both pilo and ferro.
This leads to an overly bloated VR with 20-25 mons on the VR that are either outright outclassed or essentially hold no viable niche. This creates a bottom up effect where a massively over crowded C rank then pushes more mons into the B ranks and doesn’t allow them to be more effectively and accurately ranked.
The results of this can be seen as having 6 mons in the B sub rank, all with different degrees of viability. Mons A and B are clearly superior to the other four while Mons E and F are clearly inferior. The issue arises when E and F are clearly superior to the B- sub rank mons and if they were to drop they would create the same problem there. The obvious solution is then to push the mons in B- that are obviously less viable down into the C+ sub rank, but essentially from C+ the VR becomes a big bloated mess where the same issues arise.
Of course it could be argued that a D rank or usually useless rank could be established to home these ‘unwanted’ mons but then I think that defeats the whole purpose of a VR which is to provide an accurate representation of the meta by ranking mons purely on their viability. Why rank mons that are usually useless just for the sake of it?

TL;DR - remove the shit from C so that higher ranks/sub ranks can be more accurately placed on the VR in relativity to their viability.

 

[Simbo]

Might as well chip in on this cause I also argued about this in Disc.
I agree with Rav. Bloated lower ranks just push higher ranks up, to the point where there are p big discrepancies in individual subranks (mostly the B's), where certain mons are clearly worse than some of the other mons they share a rank with (duosion, gastly shouldn't really be in the same subrank as Togetic, Shellos, Carkol), (Koffing, Porygon are a lot more viable than everything else in B-, stuff like Munchlax should not be B-), but then you can't nom some of these mons up or down because, when you look at C+, you see the exact same issue.
Even though people will naturally disagree with the rankings of mons, based on the disc discussion, I think a lot of ppl agree that the C's are bloated and that in turn makes the B's a lot less accurate.

I think the best way to deal with this issue is probably to unrank some of the Pokemon which undeniably have no valuable niche in the meta (i.e would not use on a serious team, or are virtually completely outclassed), but more importantly, to have harsher requirements on UR to ranked noms. Any decent player can make 5 good mons + one dogshit mon work. Looking at some of the mons that were ranked in the previous update for example, Loudred was a bad nom, I looked at the team Marjane built, the only niche I could see Loudred fitting on that team over Lampent was that Loudred was a slightly better Gcors switch-in, but Lamp outclassed Loudred on that team in virtually every other way. Magnemite is currently outclassed by Pikachu as a Volt Switch user, and Trapinch as a trapper. I'm still not entirely sure how it traps Ferro, Charge Beam Tbolt Rest might work but the Leech Seed MU still looks shaky. Larvesta, again, outclassed by Raboot offensively barring a slightly better Mareanie MU, defensively outclassed by Fletchinder. There's probs more that can be critiqued, but these 3 are probs the most questionable. Similarly, there's currently a good chunk of Pokemon in C/C- who are outclassed or who's tiny niche isn't viable enough to justify using on a team over the mon it is outclassed by (sinistea, bronzor, cutiefly, scraggy, loudred, swirlix, larvesta, magnemite, lombre, shelmet etc)

Tl.dr Unrank some of the really bad C- and C stuff, give B ranks more breathing room, have UR to ranked mons judged more harshly than 'I won 2 games with this and I can describe some general attributes of this mon', cause even if you unrank mons now, you're just gonna have the same issue when new bad mons get ranked with current requirements.

 

[Miyami~~~]

Agreeing with the above. I think ultimately a lot of the issues are caused by people (rightfully) focussing on higher ranks for noms, so when something gets to the lower ranks it usually isn't nommed off for a long time, leading to buildup like this and requiring a cleanup every few months. This, in turn, leads to problems nominating things in those ranks down because there's worse stuff ranked below them. For example, let's say I wanted to nom Lickitung to C-. Lickitung is pretty clearly better than something like Cutiefly, so I can't really put it in C- because of that, which means it stays in C. Then, if I were to nom, say, Drilbur down, I'd have a difficult time arguing it's equivalent to Lickitung since it's pretty apparently better. Everyone else wrote this a lot better than I could above me, so I'm going to try and nom a bunch of stuff for cleanup, rapid-fire style since a lot of these mons are bad:

But first:

A to UR: rip

now, be prepared for some really weak noms once we get to the C- stuff:

B to B+: definitely proven its worth these past few weeks, it's one of the most threatening mons in the tier if you can get it in safely and takes advantage of mons like Corsola and Tangela being needed for a lot of teams really well. It requires a bit of babying, but it's one of those mons you have to have an answer to on your team at all times or you might just die. I think it's a little too easy to rk to go any higher, but it's really good.

B to B-: I was a little too nice the last time I nommed this from A-, even with the arena trap ban it's nowhere near on the level of the more deservingly b mons like slowpoke and moreso just something that ends up on your team if it's not particularly well-built and needs too much in one slot. It has almost no good matchups with top mons outside of Ferrosseed, Gastly and maybe Morgrem, too.

B to B-: I know this just rose, but I honestly think that was a mistake. It's entirely outclassed as both a defogger and an emergency kadabra check by Vullaby (LO psychic 3HKOs max hp/spdef after rocks with eviolite), and Nasty Plot remains pretty weak. Again, not on the level of the things around it.

B to C+: sticky hold is cute but nearly every single team packs a grass type of some kind, and even with evio its bulk isn't good enough to give it that many setup opportunities. This honestly feels like a relic of pre-dlc meta where the environment was both a lot less hostile to fat waters and a lot more welcoming to more defensive-based setup mons, and at best right now it seems like a matchup fish vs teams that aren't prepared to deal with its gimmick, which isn't many.

C+ to B-: This would've been a lot easier to sell while Trapinch was still around, but Kad/Abra teams are legit and Abra's far and away the best thing in C+ currently. It still doesn't do anything outside of those Kad/Abra HO teams but I think they're about as effective of an HO strategy right now as sun, so I'd like to see Abra on that level.

I've been debating how to approach these two. Dwebble is pretty clearly the best suicide lead in the metagame right now, which is actually somewhat valuable given that Hattrem's usage has gone off a cliff thanks to Kadabra being in the tier, and Whirlipede's best niche at the minute is probably something akin to Charjabug with Spikes that just incidentally has speed boost. I personally don't think that's super valuable given that it's missing the best thing about Charjabug (pivoting), but on certain team compositions it could work. I'd personally like to see Dwebble above Whirlipede, but wether that means having them swap ranks or knocking Whirlipede down to C I'm not sure. I think Whirlipede should drop to C+ at minimum, I feel like it was overranked initially.

C+ to C: refer to the part where I said Dwebble was the best suicide lead in the metagame right now. It's okay, but Dwebble is better at it and sand is currently underexplored, but unless that starts showing results I'd like to see it dropped below Dwebble.

C+ to C: I know I nommed this up in my last post, but I wasn't expecting Gastly to be as good as it was. Drakloak just lacks the power required to really break walls unless you can keep tspikes welded to the floor, and being slower than Kadabra is supremely annoying. SubWisp sets are somewhat cool, but even then it doesn't really have the power to be that much of a threat.

C+ to C: this mon is terrible. I genuinely don't see why you'd ever want to run this unless you absolutely need a scarfer that can beat sash kadabra at the expense of losing to just about anything else.

C+ to C-: I can see the point of this mon, since it's supposed to deter defoggers on webs/screens teams, but most of those teams would rather have Kadabra and it doesn't safely come in on the best defogger anyways.

C+ to UR: Hattrem exists and is struggling right now, and Natu does worse vs all the most relevant hazard setters due to its typing and lack of fire coverage.

C to C-: It doesn't really check much of anything, so you're really only using it on dedicated sand teams with Drilbur. And as I mentioned in the Drilbur nom, Sand isn't seeing much of any use right now. I'd wager it might be worse than hail, actually.

C to C-: I know I was the one who nommed this to C initally but I definitely overreached. Flip Turn is nice but its movepool really lets it down ultimately, and if we're cleaning out the trash in C- it really should drop.

I'm honestly not too sure about this, but I think Hail has potential with Sandshrew-A's coverage being good enough and Triple Axel being a surprisingly good move that also lets it beat Kadabra with hail up. I can't help but wonder if Snover is a better partner due to being better at switching in and pressuring the bulky waters that Snover has trouble with due to its typing while still having the ability to set up veil if it wants, but this is mostly theorymon. Regardless, I think whichever one is ranked should end up in C- and if Snover gets ranked, unrank Vulpix. Dedicated AVeil teams don't exist right now.

C- to UR: It's a worse Ferroseed that does better against exactly Pilo. One of the better mons in C- and I think you could attempt an argument to keep it ranked, but I think it's way too niche to consider.

C- to UR: !dt Charjabug

C- to UR: rip

C- to UR: Does something unique in theory, but I have a hard time imagining what a slower Raboot/Fletch would bring to a team, especially with the quad stealth rock weakness practically mandating boots and cutting into its bulk.

C- to UR: I'm not 100% sold on this one, but I don't think it's good enough in the current environment. It's not horrible vs grasses since it's got Ice Beam, but it doesn't particularly like them either, and Mareanie stonewalls it at every turn. The focus on Priority over scarfers for speed control also really hurts it, and while this is true of all weather abusers, it's especially the case for Lombre since it has to actually set up its own weather and possibly take a hit doing so. Like Bronzor, one of the better mons in C- that could potentially stay.

C- to UR: It's far worse than Lampent as a special breaker on webs teams, to the point where I don't even think it should be considered. Simbo already hit the nail on this one.

C- to UR: There's a chance this could stay ranked now that Arena Trap is banned if something like Iron Defense + Body Press beats Klang, but even then it can't trap volt switch Klang like Trapinch could since it's not immune to it.

C- to UR: Like Bronzor, does something unique in theory with Shell Smash but way too niche to consider in practice. Lampent trending massively upwards is probably the final nail in the coffin.

C- to UR: Webs suicide leads, unlike other suicide leads, remain terrible due to Charjabug's ability to pivot and actually stick around for a match. Unburden with grassy seed seems cute but it's stopped way too easily to be worthwhile.

There's probably a few mons I missed (Shelmet, Scraggy, Inkay) that I don't have enough experience to talk about, but I haven't also seen them being used seriously in a long time, so someone else could probably make an argument for them.

 

[Jett]

In light of seeing the numerous posts and the general consensus that the NFE VR is very cluttered especially in the lower ranks and currently does not provide a clear representation of what Pokemon are viable in the metagame, the NFE Council has decided that we'll be doing a reorganisation of the NFE VR. The plan is to have all the Pokemon on the current VR to be ranked from scratch (UR) which will mean that we can correctly figure out a good middle ground when it comes to ranking Pokemon rather than have it be a mess which never fully gets sorted out. Hopefully in the long run, this will mean that nominations will make more sense when Pokemon are being compared to one another. We are aiming to get to get this fully done within the next couple weeks so we greatly appreciate your patience and the input the community has provided to us so far.

 

[Kaif]

thought I'd post my thoughts on what should be changed in the current vr :]

Rises
Raboot : A to A+ - Banded Flare Blitz hits stupid hard in a meta with limited fire resists who get hit hard by hjk, libero uturn also hits stupid hard. speed tier and sucker punch is v much appreciated in it being such a big threat to teams.
Clefairy : A- to A - Best rocker at the moment imo with gorsola and pilo being close behind. Wishport is still insanely good and it checks broken Kadabra decently.
Lampent : A- to A - Nothing can switch into stab fire and ghost moves in the meta, both specs and cm are good af and appreciates free switches from voltturn and teleport thats rly common rn.
Vullaby : A- to A - Best defogger in the tier by far, picks between knock + toxic/uturn and has insane impact. also checks kadabra if it doesnt get knocked
Duosion : B to B+/A- - autowins so many games if the opponents dark type is removed / toxic'd which is very easy to do in most cases.
Koffing : B- to B+ - this mon is soooooooooo good, decently handles machoke, mguarders like clef take damage from tspike which is very cool as well
Fletchinder : B- to B - Both dual wingbeat and acro sets are very good and sweep a lot of teams after an sd
Lickitung : C to B- - fat wishes + knock is kinda nice and it walls kadabra pretty well but doesn't have teleport or mguard like clef and gets pressured very easily with hazards up
Marill : C to C+ - band marill is pretty epic hits super hard
Frillish : C- to C - pretty cool typing with the niche of taking on raboot + wart in 1 slot
Sandshrew-Alola : C- to C - also pretty cool typing and on the level of the other mons in C

Drops
Roselia : A to A- - voltturn spam being big rn hurts this mon a lot, can't deal with any of raboot pika lamp and dies to +2 knock from thwackey after chip but can still hit things like Clef and Tang with stab sludge which is nice I guess
Trapinch : A to UR - arena trap gone = unviable
Brionne : B+ to B- - outclassed as an special attacking water by seadra and wartortle, outclassed as a defensive one by mare, wartortle and even tentacool to an extent.
Drakloak : C+ to C - this should probably be UR but its the 2nd fastest mon in the tier I guess
Staryu : C to UR - no niche, outclassed by wart as a water type spinner
Vulpix-Alola : C to UR - outclassed by morgrem as a screens setter
Bronzor : C- to UR - no niche
Cutiefly : C- to UR - outclassed by charja as a webs setter
Diglett : C- to UR - rip arena trap but this deserved to be UR even w/ arena trap in the tier
Inkay : C- to UR - no niche
Larvesta : C- to UR - no niche
Lombre : C- to UR - rain isnt very good and lombre isnt the star of the show for those teams anyway
Loudred : C- to UR - no niche
Magnemite : C- to UR - no niche
Scraggy : C- to UR - no niche
Sinistea : C- to UR - no niche
Swirlix : C- to UR - no niche

 

[Jett]

Hey everyone, we finally managed to reorganise the VR, to one which we all are happy with and hopefully fixed many of the issues that the community presented to us in the posts above. Click here to find the slate containing all the votes from the council members.

This post will not contain any explanations because for the vast majority of these Pokemon, they were moved down because their previosu rank was too inflated. We will be returning to explanations in the next VR update. The tab below will contain where each Pokemon started and ended after this most recent VR update. Click here for the updated VR with these shifts included.

VR shifts

Kadabra. Stayed S.
Machoke. Stayed S.

Corsola-Galar. Stayed A+.
Klang. A+ to A.
Piloswine. Stayed A+.
Thwackey. Stayed A+.

Hattrem. Stayed A.
Pikachu. A to A+.
Raboot. A to A+
Roselia. A to A-
Tangela. Stayed A rank.
Trapinch. A to UR.

Charjabug. A- to B+.
Clefairy. Stayed A-.
Ferroseed. A- to A
Lampent. Stayed A-.
Linoone-Galar. A- to B+
Mareanie. A- to B+
Vullaby. Stayed A-.
Wartortle. A- to A.

Brionne. B+ to C+.
Dartrix. B+ to B-.
Fraxure. Stayed B+.
Morgrem. Stayed B+.

Carkol. B to C+.
Duosion. Stayed B.
Gastly. B to B+.
Hakamo-o. B to C+.
Palpitoad. B to C+.
Shellos. B to C-.
Slowpoke. B to C+.
Togetic. Stayed B.

Charmeleon. B- to C.
Fletchinder. B- to C.
Gloom. B- to C+.
Koffing. B- to B.
Porygon. Stayed B-.
Munchlax. B- to C.
Vulpix. B- to C.
Whirlipede. B- to C-.

Abra. Stayed C+
Drakloak. C+ to C-.
Drilbur. C+ to C-
Dusclops. Stayed C+.
Dwebble. Stayed C+.
:Farfetch Farfetch'd-Galar. C+ to C-.
Gothorita. C+ to UR.
Krokorok. C+ to C.
Mienfoo. C+ to B.
Natu. C+ to UR.
Sliggoo. C+ to UR.
Torracat. Stayed C+
Zweilous. C+ to UR.

Carvanha. C to UR.
Hippopotas. C to C+.
Lickitung. C to C+.
Marill. C to UR.
Mudbray. Stayed C.
Seadra. C to B.
Shelmet. C to UR.
Staryu. C to UR.
Vulpix-Alola. C to UR.

Bronzor. C- to UR.
Cutiefly. C- to UR.
Diglett. C- to UR.
Frillish. C- to UR.
Inkay. C- to UR.
Larvesta. C- to UR.
Lombre. C- to UR.
Loudred. C- to UR.
Magnemite. C- to UR.
Sandshrew-Alola. C- to UR.
Scraggy. C- to UR.
Sinistea. C- to UR.
Swirlix. C- to UR.

Thank you everybody for their patience, we're looking forward to seeing your nominations.

 

[OranBerryBlissey10]

I've been experimenting with Hail lately, and while the team I used is far from perfect, it clearly showed potential in some of the mons included.

UR to C I actually really liked council's decision to not UR this last shift for the exact reasons that were given. Hailpix is a hailsetter first, and only a screensetter secondly. However, being able to set up two screens at once gives it a reason to use over Morgrem, and it can be flexible with its item depending on the team structure as both Icy Rock and Light Clay are worth running. This is the go-to hailsetter, which is a severely underexplored archetype, kind of makes sense as it wasn't worth exploring before the return of Hailshrew.

UR to C+ Hailshrew is Hail's main selling point, and while I was originally going to nom this from C- to C in the old vr, after using it more, it should definitely be C+ imo. Due to its good typing and 90 base defense, it can set up on a significant number of mons with Swords Dance and proceed to sweep thanks to Slush Rush. Iron Head has a nasty flinch rate, Triple Axel has 120 bp if all three moves hit (72%), but can still do some damage depending on which Axel misses. Safer options like Icicle Crash or Spear work as well and Earthquake provides coverage for steel and fire-types that would give you a hard time otherwise, and is handy for not taking Iron Barbs damage from Ferroseed, as well as pummeling Mareanie. Surprisingly little mons counter a set up Hailshrew, and it can even break through some of them through luck and/or clever predictions (for example: sd'ing on Corsola at the right times or getting a crucial flinch). Weakening Hailshrew's offensive answers and few defensive ones shouldn't prove too difficult, turning it into a potent wincon, albeit limited by the number of hail turns. Sandshrew-Alola also has a role in the metagame outside of hail, despite that being its primary niche. It has access to rocks, spin and knock and can even use the speed gained from Rapid Spin to sweep outside of hail. It can also serve a defensive check, courtesy of good defense and typing, or could be used as a surprise Kadabra check, with spdef investment and being able to ohko sashdabra with spear or axel. Overall a decent mon and the best hail sweeper in the tier.

Here are some replays of my bad hail team in action:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1154843757 (that's me btw, in case that wasn't obvious)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1155145157-0xt8y2os40w4jfp1bxjlvx2gj92yuy7pw (Hail chip is mvp here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1155313765 (Blizzard Wart goes ham)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1156051801 (Hailshrew stronk)

Also here are some noteworthy mons which seem too niche to be ranked, but if anyone thinks they should be, they do have their uses and might be better than they seem after (more) testing. I highly encourage people to try and improve hail. (with or without these mons)

the only other Slush Rush sweeper in the tier, but notably worse (less defenses, less power, and has coverage issues that can't be fixed with hp electric like in oldgens)

actually has decent stats and interesting movepool, but doesn't really do anything great. Ice Body makes defensive sets more viable, but is probably not worth running over non-hail mons to cover weaknesses. I'd love to be wrong about the ice cream though. If only it got Snow Warning like Vanilluxe...

spinner with recovery and a solid defense stat. Kind of needs Curse to do damage though, and very weak on the special side. I have actually had limited success with Bergmite in the pre-dlc meta, but its bad typing and low spdef make it (borderline) unviable.

I'm the most conflicted about this one. If there was a D rank, I'd put it in D+ for sure. It has a useful grass typing and several niche tools like Leech Seed, Water Pulse and Role Play (Snow Warning Hattrem lol). Vulpix is usally preferred over Snover, but having two setters can definitely come in handy, especially if one has Icy Rock while the other has Light Clay.

Despite my team having numerous flaws (weak to Lampent and Machoke, and being too reliant on Hailshrew for example), it still manages to have success, meaning hail has potential. Because of the limited amount of good sweepers and weakness stacking, I think semi-hail has more potential than full hail. Something noteworthy is the return of Amaura in the crown tundra dlc, meaning a new hailsetter with rocks, and Sealeo, a defensive hail abuser with other good traits. These definitely won't be my only noms, you can expect me defending UR's among other mons fervently as ever. 'Hail' Thwackeys btw :)

Someone please post so I don't have to double post, ty.

 

[Miyami~~~]

Midseason noms:

A+ to S: yeah, I'm going there. I think Raboot is the best Pokemon in the metagame right now, even with the loss of its best partner. Pivot Boots is extremely difficult to wear down thanks to U-Turn and not taking hazard damage, letting it play around its checks (which really just boil down to Mareanie, Corsola, and Lampent) very well just by going into something better equipped to deal with them. Its speed tier is also extremely valuable post-Pikachu, as priority is now limited to moves it naturally resists and its own sucker punch, meaning just about everything is taking two hits since nothing faster than you really is capable of switching in directly except maybe Drakloak. It absolutely mandates preparation on every team, and it's quite fortunate for us that 2/3 of its really stable checks are good generic blanket checks with high usage as well.

If you go look at PL week 4 the first week where Pikachu is banned, you'll notice a pretty large majority of teams have Raboot on them:

Number of games where one team had Raboot: 3/12 (25%)
Number of games where both teams had Raboot: 6/12 (50%)

That adds up to 75% of teams having a Raboot this week, although its winrate probably won't be as high due to half the games having both sides bring it.

S to A+: while still a terror if it ever gets on the field, and still a nightmare for defensive teams if Corsola ever gets weakened, the meta revolving around fast, usually pivoting breakers hurts Machoke a fair amount, as it's slower than most of them and either has to be pivoted in (this admittedly applies to Kadabra as well) or has to directly switch in and hope it doesn't take a hit, meaning it can become dead weight a lot more easily if there's nothing . I think it's in the same boat as Pilo right now, and should occupy roughly the same sphere of viability.

B+ to A: It should come as no surprise that Mareanie's been thriving since the Pikachu ban, simply due to the number of common breakers that can drop it without setup decreasing substantially. Really only Kadabra is common with Gastly being a fringe option and Porygon being nonexistent. It's a fantastic blanket physical sponge that's extremely difficult to wear down or switch into thanks to Knock/Scald, but that's become even better with surges in Raboot and Thwackey and the comparative lack of good, common special attackers. It's definitely one of the defensive faces of the tier and should be ranked as such.

A to A-: while Pikachu no longer being able to revenge it is a huge boon, the massive surges of both Mareanie and Thwackey seriously dent it, on top of Ferrosseed's continued relevance. Defensive sets are probably better right now, but that still doesn't feel like an A-rank set considering there's a better hazard remover in A- below it.

A- to B+: This meta really isn't too kind to her, being heavily physically-oriented and most of the good special attackers hitting for SE damage, meaning Rose can't switch in as much as she used to. Offensive sets may have some merit but giving up Tangela or Ferrosseed is extremely tough due to their amazing defensive utility.

B to B-/C+: cute in theory, not that good in practice. It's been barely used in PL since it just doesn't hit hard enough to matter, even with Fake out into a move, and it does even worse vs the fighting checks than Machoke does outside of having U-Turn. I'm pretty sure this is hovering at or near a 0% winrate in NFEPL when it does show up, too.

B to B-: I really feel as though this was overraised, as water type breakers aren't very good right now, even with Flip Turn. Seadra gets walled by a ton, and while it's a better choice user than Brionne, Brionne has some defensive merit outside of the choice role. B- feels like a better fit because it's just so difficult to justify using it. most special breakers in the tier can or are specifically aiming to break Mareanie, which is something Seadra will never do on its own.

C+ to B-: I also feel like this was dropped too far. While specs sets are entirely outclassed by Seadra, it has some options with SpD Resttalk (actually checks LO Kadabra!) or even some janky perish trap set. Waters in general not named Mareanie or Wartortle are struggling right now, but defensively Brionne at least brings something to the table.

UR to C: While I'm not sure if it's S-worthy and thus didn't talk about it, Thwackey's usage has also shot up this week, and Woobat's a pretty cute high-rolling option to go with it thanks to Simple. It's obviously not something you can just add to a team, but when it works, it really works.

 

[Greybaum]

just gonna drop my thoughts on some of the more controversial noms miyami posted

A+ to S (agree)
raboot is the most threatening pokemon in the meta rn and there's pretty much never a reason not to use it. traditional answers like lampent and corsola are becoming increasingly unreliable due to the rise of assurance, and even raboot's hardest answer in mareanie can still be broken past by double-edge either from band or bulk up sets after minimal chip or knock off (with the latter essentially mandating haze as a slot on mareanie). if nothing else, the fact that the typical raboot set is running jolly purely to tie with opposing raboots should make it clear just how centralising this pokemon has become for the meta.

S to A+ (disagree)
definitely not, machoke fits pretty much every archetype right now, with physdef being almost a necessity on semi-stall and stall teams, and its standard eviolite set being incredibly powerful on balance teams, webs, and holding incredible synergy with thunder wave drakloak to form a specialised anti-meta core. if anything, i'd say it's far easier to splash on a team right now than kadabra (although considering how few switchins either of them have i think s is still warranted for both). flame orb has become harder to support, true, but this doesn't affect machoke's general splashability and versatility, with the rise in usage of mareanie making earthquake variants harder than ever to switch into (and bullet punch offering far less than it used to).

A to A- (agree kinda, but it should be in B+)
drop wartortle way down tbh, thwackey owns it and raboot mandates a bulky water-type on every balance team, typically mareanie or slowpoke. wartortle is losing far too many matchups on preview to be this high and unfortunately the answers most often being used are virtually unchippable outside of knock off and you're typically only getting one chance at setup. offensive rapid spin sets are actually better at the moment imo.

UR to C (disagree)
id like more info on what woobat spread and set you're advocating for here - defensive roost sets (like the set friso used against me) specifically only work vs incredibly fat builds like the ones i'm known for, and even then are prone to status, while salac sets struggle to set up, need a notably high level of chip to get anywhere, and are weak to priority. regardless of which set you're using this mon is going to be incredibly inconsistent and even if you do get the perfect matchup you're hoping for you'll almost always be better off running something like duosion instead.

speaking of,


B to B+
i don't have much to say here in all honesty, duosion is just far more consistent than B gives it credit for, gives you a few directions to build in to support it, and generally speaking has fewer poor matchups than the likes of koffing in B and even a few of the B+ mons like gastly and linoone-g.

B- to B
dartrix is a good offensive check to thwackey while also being able to hold its own against raboot to some extent via sucker punch. softchecks machoke, solid anti-meta pick that generally speaking should be used more than it is. defog is kinda bad right now but definitely fits certain team comps that can't afford to use vullaby

C+ to B-
dd hakamo-o is a very similar pokemon to duosion. often only "ok" (not as good as duosion), but outright wins certain matchups (not as often as duosion) and definitely easier to fit on teams right now since it can act as a softcheck to certain thwackey sets. tlenit1 highlighted it pretty well in his week 6 game vs mamp.

A to A+
A- to A+
hattrem and vullaby are pretty much the only commonly run forms of hazard control right now so i'm grouping them together. hattrem has very few reliable switchins and healing wish is quite possibly the most underrated move in the meta right now, with the rise in grassy terrain greatly improving its longevity particularly against piloswine. vullaby is far more abusable, but its role compression is unmatched which is why it finds its place onto teams more than an on-paper superior form of hazard control in hattrem, and i think its splashability alone warrants it being this high right now.

C+ to B-
i hope people don't see this as a kneejerk reaction to friso's usage of it in nfepl but this mon is a pretty respectable sidegrade to mareanie. it offers pretty much the same stuff, albeit it's weak to u-turn and assurance from raboot, and generally speaking knock off support & toxic spikes are going to be more useful than the free slow pivoting that teleport slowpoke gives you, but the pokemon's role as a mareanie sidegrade is strong enough for me to want to raise it above the likes of carkol and lickitung which really have a harder time finding a reason to be used right now.

C to Unranked
i can't remember the last time this mon was used but i find myself hard-pressed to think of a situation where i want to use it over hippopotas, a mon that is also in C. as a defensive stealth rock user gorsola also checks almost all the same pokemon better that it can without having to carry around the massive weakness to special attacks, vulnerability to hattrem, and a notable grass weakness. i hope i'm not forgetting some weird niche this thing has?

C- to B
yo i almost forgot my boy!!
twave hex drakloak is genuinely really good offensive pressure against both raboot and thwackey, and if you're willing to give up creeping linoone-g (you should be) you can invest a lot of bulk into either HP or, my preference, raw physical defence to have it better handle moves like sucker punch. volt switch klang is less common than it used to be so you often lose nothing by clicking u-turn on its switchins, and in a meta where the kadabra counterplay is almost always vullaby now instead of ferroseed you'll find a lot of matchups where vullaby can just paralyse something and u-turn out, setting up its teammates for success down the line. this mon is still buttcheeks weak and none of you should be suprised to see me nom this back down to C- after one or two sharp meta shifts but this mon is genuinely really solid in the current climate.

peace out

 

[Jett]

Hey frens, welcome to another edition of the VR update. You can find the votes here.

vr shifts

Rises

Raboot. A+ to S. Raboot is arguably the best Pokemon in the metagame in most people's eyes, with Heavy-Duty Boots and U-turn making it extremely difficult to wear down. Some of its checks such as Lampent and Galarian Corsola are becoming less reliable due to Assurance becoming a lot more standard on its sets, whilst a Knocked Off Mareanie does not take kindly to the occasional Double-Edge. Access to Sucker Punch also allows it to threaten faster Pokemon such as non-Encore Kadabra. Aside from its Boots set, Choice Band and Bulk Up can both still be used effectively and serve as either a strong and reliable wallbreaker and sweeper respectively.

Tangela. A to A+. Tangela has been an extremely reliable physical wall in the metagame with very useful utility in Knock Off and Toxic. It currently excels at being a very solid check to Thwackey, as well as having the liberty to pivot around most attacks, including weaker special attacks, thanks to its solid natural bulk and Regenerator.

Hattrem. A to A+.
Vullaby. A- to A. During NFEPL, it was very clear that the majority of teams were either relying on one or both of these Pokemon as their form of hazard control, due to the lack of other reliable options. Hattrem has great utility in Healing Wish, great coverage and Nuzzle has been seeing a small resurgence on some teams due to have important speed control is currently. Vullaby on the other hand, has great role compression, and despite getting overwhelmed since it finds itself doing too much on many games, it is extremely easy to fit on too many teams.

Mareanie. B+ to A. Mareanie has risen up as a very solid check to many of the offensive threats in the metagame, in particular Raboot. The Pikachu ban helped it greatly make its way back into the metagame as one of the better defensive walls. Scald burns, Knock Off, and Toxic all help to make Mareanie a lot less passive in such an offensive metagame and give it useful utility outside of just being a wall.

Duosion. B to B+. Duosion has been overlooked for a little while now, with its Double Dance set being extremely consistent as a win condition, and its Future Sight Toxic set bluffing as the former set and baiting in, Dark-types like Vullaby. It generally has pretty good matchups in the current metagame.

Dartrix. B- to B. Dartrix is another Pokemon which is able to check Thwackey offensively and has access to Sucker Punch to threaten faster Pokemon such as Kadabra and Gastly, as well as pick off a weakened Raboot. It can also check Machoke decently well and KO it with Brave Bird.

Hakamo-o. C+ to B-. Hakamo-o is seeing some solid success as its unique typing and Bulletproof, make it very difficult for some teams to deal with. Its Bulk Up Substitute set has been able to 6-0 teams several times over the course of this PL and it can even set up on certain Thwackey sets with decent reliability.

Slowpoke. C+ to B-. Whilst Slowpoke faces stiff competition from Mareanie as a defensive Regenerator Water-type, it has access to Teleport which makes it worth to use on teams which focus on trying to bring in strong wallbreakers reliably or some forms of pivot spam.

Torracat. C+ to B-. Torracat distinguishes itself as a Fire-type from Raboot due to its setup moves and Crunch letting it more reliably break past the common "Raboot checks" in Galarian Corsola and Lampent. Very few Fire-type resists also plays into Torracat's favour and Intimidate let's it be a soft check to some of the common physical attackers like Thwackey.

Fletchinder. C to B-. Fletchinder has been used as a stallbreaker with Taunt and Toxic recently. This set is able to disrupt common walls such as Clefairy and Galarian Corsola. Fletchinder also has a great matchup against the common ThwackeyBoot teams.

Krokorok. C to C+. Lead Krokorok has seen a bit more experimentation and success on more offensive style teams since it can both deny opposing hazards whilst also getting up its own. It also has Knock Off which dissuades Hattrem from switching in and just a move which every Pokemon dislikes switching into.

Drakloak. C- to C+. Drakloak is a decent pivot with a great speed tier, and access to both Thunder Wave and U-turn letting it disrupt ThwackeyBoot combinations which are frequently seen in the metagame. It can also run Toxic to wear down Pokemon which typically switch in on it such as Vullaby and Piloswine.

Sandshrew-Alola. UR to C-.
Vulpix-Alola. UR to C-. Swords Dance Triple Axel Alolan Sandshrew hits the majority of the metagame pretty hard. Hail lets it outspeed the entire unboosted metagame, and whilst physical walls are commonly used in the metagame to blanket check other offensive threats, Sandshrew is able to threaten both Tangela and Mareanie.

Woobat. UR to C-. Woobat has seen a some usage on specifically Grassy Surge teams and has been a decently reliable setup sweeper with its Calm Mind Roost Grassy Seed set.

Drops

Seadra. B to B-. Water-type breakers are struggling at the moment due to how common Thwackey is on teams and its inability to break past common defensive Water-types. Seadra is no exception to this and is being lowered by a subrank.

Togetic. B to B-. Togetic is completely outclassed as a Defog user by other birds. Whilst on paper, its Nasty Plot set has a pretty good matchup against a lot of the common teams, in practice, it tends to struggle on reliably breaking past teams despite its very solid coverage.

Mudbray. C to C-. Mudbray hasn't been used much for a while now is generally outclassed by other Pokemon as a Stealth Rock users, and faces a lot of competition from other Ground-type Pokemon.

A big thank you OranBerryBlissey10, Miyami~~~ , and uhuhuhu7 for your continuous contributions for several rounds of the VR updates now as they are extremely appreciated. Looking forward to seeing the metagame further develop post PL and have the VR update once again.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

VR noms while I wait for suspect ladder cause it takes a decade to find a match.

A+ to S: Fully convinced this mon is up there with the best, if not thee best in the meta. Grassy Seed + Acrobatics is finally getting traction and it's awesome. Between that set and the options for it to run a ton of other good coverage, or just Choice Band because that's awesome too, it's just as variable and unstoppable as Raboot and Kadabra. This isn't even on top of all the team support it brings with priority and the passive effects of Grassy Terrain.

S to A+: Machoke gets less and less use by the day it feels like, with all of its innovations trying to put a new spin on it because it's becoming less consistent. I see this as Machoke having limited switch-in opportunities and uses in a meta that favors faster pivots and a ton of wallbreakers that speed creep it. There's enough solid checks and offensive pressure that it's just not as threatening nor effective as Thwackey, Raboot, and Kadabra. It feels on par with Tangela and Piloswine, and no longer dominates the meta.

B+ to A-: Duosion doesn't really fit with the rest of the B+ ranks when it's easily one of the most threatening, consistent, and popular setup sweepers we have. Some stallbreakers and wallbreakers might be tough, but considering most teams opt for Vullaby as a Dark-type, Duosion can potentially outsall it PP wise if Vullaby has already been in use mid-game. Duosion is a pretty relevant mon that always comes up in teambuilding less it sweeps near cleanly, and that prep shows it's worth the rise.

B- to B: Checking Rabootey is huge, and on top of being an unstoppable wallbreaker with Toxic / Taunt / Flamethrower it's got recovery with Roost. This would be a top meta pick if it wasn't for the huge SR weakness and inability to wall the other half of physical attackers. Fletchinder teams are able to work around its weaknesses and utilize it to put a big wrench in the plans of top meta playstyles.

C+ to B-: Combining these two for a rise out of C+. Drakloak's resists with Hex + Twave are really worthwhile Speed control, and the resistances / immunities to Fire, Grass, and Fighting are pretty worthwhile. Carkol never should have been C rank imo cause its so bulky and helps with hazard control, and soft checking every special attacker that isn't a Water-type is pretty good. It's also a bit of a stall staple, but it's not like stall is that great, but totally not a C rank like Liki because it has application outside stall too.

UR to C: Its typing lets it due a ton, namely checking Kadabra, Gastly, Roselia, and Tangela, which covers a good chunk of special attackers. With a moveset of Toxic, Taunt, Corrosive Gas, and Sucker Punch, it's actually able to stallbreak to an extent. This does make Stunky unbelievably passive, and will need the support of actual attackers until late-game when there's only like Kadabra left usually. Still, having a Kadabra check that keeps momentum up with Taunt so walls can't recover or remove hazards can be kinda clutch. After it's usefulness runs up it still has Aftermath so it can be sacked on Raboot / Machoke for much appreciated chip damage.

Set

Lucky Stunky (Stunky) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic
- Corrosive Gas

Replays

Stallbreaks and checks Kadabra late-game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1189645774
No shocker, against 3 Psychic-types stunky did a ton: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1187068084
Lampent switch-in to Taunt it for a Fraxure setup: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1186815906
Keeps hazards up with Taunt: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1189630293
Struggles to punish Machoke, letting it in easy: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1188107717

 

[Rav3]

I’ll bite.

Thwackey -> S: disagree (Just)
Thwackey is an amazing mon, I love using thwackey, and I love it’s versatility BUT I don’t believe that it’s on the same page as the other S ranks. It just lacks the same instant breaking potential with a significantly worse offensive type. It also faces really strong competition for the grass slot with both Tang and Ferro holding great roles (even Rose is great in some matchups v TangMare). I’d rank it’s bulkier uturn set as its most common and best set, but its grassy seed set which should only be seeing usage on HO is also a threat. Overall I don’t see it having the same centralising effect on the meta as the S ranks.

Machoke -> A+: HARD Disagree
Machoke is still amazing and is still the most centralising mon in the builder. I think Ho3ns points about running different moves actually proves that Machoke has seemingly developed great versatility to help a team achieve the W. Encore, toxic and EQ are all great examples of Machoke punishing teams reliant on Cors and Mare teams to check raboot/Klang in the endgame. Machoke isn’t the late game threat that both Kadabra and Raboot are (Thwackey and Linoone also) but I seriously doubt that any mon in the tier bar maybe Tangela can achieve so many favourable outcomes in the early and mid game and straight up break, cripple or 1v1 so much of the tier. The dynamic punch foolery seem so often in NFEPL is further testament to how good and versatile this mon is

Duo and Carkol: disagree
Fletch and Drak: Agree

 

[Eris]

I need to nominate Zweilous for the sake of my sanity and I don't want this post to not have enough content so I will also reply to some of Ho3n's nominations.

Thwackey to S disagree
Thwackey is a really good Pokemon in this metagame and is a great wincon / wallbreaker to any team. However like Rav said above there is a huge gap in my eyes between Thwackey and the other S ranks. Thwackey is very limited by 4 slots in its movepool and every time you drop a move you do drop a consistency in what you can beat, and not in a good way. Running U-turn instead of Knock Off does have a strong impact as now you can no longer wallbreak, limiting yourself into functioning as a pivot, thus leaving you more susceptible to counters like Galarian Corsola or Ferroseed depending on whether or not your last move will be Wood Hammer or Drain Punch. Team composition wise you now need more support in the Knock Off department for your team to carry through. Now on the other hand if you don't run U-turn you lose a significant amount of midground abilities as well as the effortless Raboot & Thwackey pivot core, resulting in limiting yourself to more counters and momentum sink. Not that this is something that makes this Pokemon anywhere near bad or anything but just not something any of the other S ranks have to deal with. Personally I am not a big fan of Choice Band, I think it's much easier to deal with than Swords Dance and really doesn't offer much more, I also really don't like Grassy Seed set because Eviolite is just better 90% of the time, you don't OHKO Tangela at +2 even when it's knocked, just not worth in the long run.

Machoke to A+ disagree
I think the common misconception around Machoke is that it dies fast and usually ends up being sacrificed as a midground play but really this Pokemon has a bigger influence in a game than Raboot ever will, which I believe was well shown through some pl games. First of all Machoke's versatility is beyond any other A+ ranks and requires no support into team building as it is just as splashable and efficient as other top threats like Raboot. An opponent will never know what it is running on preview besides Knock Off and Fighting STAB, you cannot guess its spread and will have to play around it until Machoke is at least 1 turn in; which is an amazing asset considering nothing in A ranks actually want to switch in on Machoke. I think this is enough reasoning as a whole for it to not be on par in any way with Piloswine or Tangela as stated in that post.

Fletchinder to B agree
Whilst Fletchinder is by no way a now centralising Pokemon in the metagame it definitely has proven to be an amazing asset against the ever so popular Thwackey & Raboot core. Fletchinder also functions as a great stallbreaker in this metagame by being able to beat down common walls such as Galarian Corsola and Vullaby, I think taunt is one of the most valuable move in the current metagame and Fletchinder is one of its best abusers for sure. The new addition of Heavy Duty Boots does boost Fletchinder a bunch too, while one might think it is rendering Fletchinder too weak defensively, it really pushes it beyond in performing its role and luring in physical attackers.


Not really going to talk about Duosion and Carkol but I'm not at all sold on their nominations here since Duosion to me isn't as good as Ho3n depicts it and same goes towards Carkol since to me this Pokemon is the biggest momentum sink on a team and usually offers you more weaknesses than role compression even if Flame Body does sound appealing, also not sure if it really is a stall staple, it doesn't really bring anything to the stall archetype and I'm sure you can find Pokemon who's overall performance are much better.

and now finally:
Zweilous UR to B-
B- could seem to be a stretch to some but I honestly believe this Pokemon is a real threat that deserves more recognition. The most common use of Zweilous resides on Sticky Web teams where the better known Choice Band set has found a reputation in pretty much no reliable counters on paper, but having downfalls in practice due to the poor accuracy. Zweilous's other and most underutilised set of Nasty Plot functions as a great bait and wallbreaker where Pokemon like Galarian Corsola, Machoke and Tangela are found switching in expecting a move they can well absorb only to found themselves against a +2 Zweilous threatening to drop a Dark Pulse or even Draco Meteor which even specially defensive walls like Mareanie, Klang and Vullaby fear; leaving the only reliable counter play in Clefairy and Togetic.

 

[lepton]

to S Agree
I am convinced the monke is the best mon in the meta atm. it is very easy to overload and weaken its checks, and when you do, you win the game. on top of its ridiculous sweeping potential, monke provides incredible support spreading knock and pivoting with u-turn. band is also a really powerful wallbreaker but i dont have much experience using it. I think thwackey is definitely on the same level as raboot, machoke, and kadabra.

 

[Jett]

The council are planning to do one last VR update next week before the release of the second DLC so please get your last nominations in before the week ends. Thanks to those who have already done so.

 

[Jett]

Two noms of my own:

Gastly B+ -> B-. I think that Gastly has definitely fallen off a bit now that the metagame has fully stabilised. It sits at a pretty unfortunate speed tier losing to the common Raboot and Kadabra, whilst having to be Timid in order to speed tie with Thwackey (although it really hates Grassy Glide despite resisting it) which means it loses out on a lot of power since its actually quite weak and struggles to break past any solid special walls like Klang and Vullaby, and using Trick to delibitate these mons only makes Gastly weaker against everything else. For the most part, it is pretty outclassed by Lampent as a Ghost-type which has a much better STAB combination and decent enough bulk to be used as a Calm Mind or Sub Evio user rather than be limited to Choiced sets. The majority of mons which lie in the speed tier between these mons see 0 usage, so Gastly's main niche over Lampent isn't very significant. Overall, it isn't particualrly worth using Gastly atm, as it struggles to break past the common special walls as well as being pressured too hard by faster Pokemon.

Natu UR -> C/C+.

(Thanks xavgb for the set and discussion about this Pokemon in discord)

set

Natu @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Feather Dance / Reflect
- Roost
- Teleport

So Natu is an interesting Magic Bounce user since it faces competition from Hattrem but I think it deserves to be ranked again because it distinguishes itself enough. The most obvious thing is it has much better longevity than Hattrem which is super prone to being worn down over the course of a game and no way to heal up (unless it's the weird RestTalk set). This longevity is rly good against Galarian Corsola especially since Corsola is unable to trap Natu like it would with Hattrem. Unlike other birds, Natu is able to fit Feather Dance to prevent being set up on by physical attackers which often take advantage of passive Pokemon, and a flaw of the premier and most commonly used Defog user, Vullaby. Lastly, Natu has access to Teleport which is really good in a metagame which revolves around momentum (ThwackeyBoot) and this gives you an advantageous matchup whilst you keep off hazards so you can safely switch in Pokemon more often. Obviously Natu isn't without it's flaws like having a worse matchup against Pilo compared to Hattrem, but it definitely deserves to be ranked as I feel these 3 niches distinguish it enough from other form of hazard control in the metagame.

 

[OranBerryBlissey10]

A+ to S: agree: The combination of sd and a 91 bp priority move (in terrain, at least) is bonkers, giving it tools to deal with offense as well as more passive builds. Has knock to further help wallbreaking, drain punch for steels, and even some other sets that can deal with its limited counters like cb uturn or grassy seed acro. What would be its best check on paper (Tangela) falls apart to these adaptations, and the only consistent counters to all sets I can think of are Fletch, Torracat, Koffing and Togetic (tbf most of these mons are in a good spot now). For short, monkey is really really good.

S to A+: disagree: I don't really have much to add on Marj and rav's points here, with which I agree entirely. Every time I use Florb on webs, i'm reminded why people wanted to ban this thing.

B+ to A-: unsure: While it's true that one wrong move can spell the end for if you're up against Duosion, it doesn't get that many switch-in opportunities and an untimely crit can end everything (which isn't that unlikely if you're setting up for a long time). It does, however, benefit from Linoone's usage reaching staggering depths and can punish people who think that vull always wins against mono-stored power. When I look at the B+ rank I don't regard any mon there as clearly better than the others and are all pretty unique in what they do. While Ho3n does a great job of summarising Duosion's strengths, I'm not sure if this is better in A-.

B- to B: agree: Checking both Thwackey and Raboot is huge, and with Taunt+Toxic it can deal with a lot of passive mons as well like vull or cors. The only big issue is a x4 rocks weakness, which can be overcome with team support like hat or just slapping on boots. Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that the Thwackeys reinvented fletch?

C+ to B-: disagree: Low spatk, unreliable physical stab, and bad bulk. Fast Twave is fine ig but Hex still won't do enough damage, it still takes chunks from resisted attacks and is horrible at being a Raboot check due to the prevalence of Assurance. (because of lamp) In fact: I'm nomming it from C+ to C rn. I can't remember the last time this mon was useful, and if anyone has replays of this mon being good, I'd like to see them (if they exist)

C to B-: agree: Offers role compression and impressive defensive stats. Checks a lot of stuff and Flame Body is genuinely handy. Helps in particular against Thwackeyboot's pivoting and Klang while even dissuading mons that usally don't care about Carkol, like dyna punch Machoke or Fraxure. Is actually decent hazard control despite being rocks weak, and I had success with it using it as emergency hazard control alongside hat.

UR to C: kinda agree: This has potential but is worse than everything in C imo, budget Grimer-A definitely has a niche though. Oh and it's absolutely S rank in monotype nfe.

UR to B-: agree: Was going to nom this to C+ myself solely based on choiced sets, but if the special set can distinguish itself enough, it might deserve a higher rank. At first glance, CB Zweilous seems to have 3 good counters, being Morgrem, Togetic and Clefairy. However, Morgrem and Togetic drop to Head Smash and it 2hko's Clefairy (tbf, Head Smash has 64% acc factoring in hustle so this isn't as bad as it seems). Missing sucks, but when it hits, it hits. Also, this is a fun calc: 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 159-187 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO. Basically, Zweilous' insane power is well worth occasionally missing and it really deserves to be ranked.

B+ to B-: kinda agree: This is worse than everything in B+ and suffers from Kadabra prep, but I'm not convinced low opinion of baby Haunter isn't just because of its staggeringly low usage. Drop this to B for now imo.

UR to C/C+: kinda agree: Toxic, Roost and Teleport gives this a niche over Hattrem, making it better against more passive setters like Corsola or Whirlipede. C+ is still a bit of a stretch though, Natu seems more like C-/C material to me.

now for my own noms
(excluding the ones I was planning to make but were already brought up)

C+ to C-: Only viable on psychic spam teams, and I see very little reason to use this over Hattrem or Duosion (or even Gastly, for that matter). Even Kadabra is a bit overrated imo, and if your opponent has a solid Kadabra check, you're doubly crippling yourself. (The only time you'll ever see this is Nalei spamming her psychic spam team in roomtours lol.)

B to B-/C+: This is a relic of the past. Checked Pikachu, Haunter and Pawniard, but that's currently irrelevant. Apart from being a water type rocker, a Klang check and a rain abuser, I don't see what this is supposed to do. (Will get better with dlc 2 though due to buzz becoming a thing and pika hopefully getting unbanned.)

UR to C-: The combination of a great typing and massive spdef lets it check a number of mons, like Wart, Lamp, Rose or Tang. Tentacool is also a spinner with tspikes and knock, allowing it to hinder spinblockers. What allows it to distinguish itself from Mareanie even more, and is the cherry on top imo, is that it's a great partner for Machoke, punishing Corsola's/Gloom's ssap and Tangela's Giga Drain/Leech Seed with Liquid ooze.

some replays of Tentacool in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1188082486
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1166490117
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1166046297
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1176064305
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1173104977
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nfe-1162134643 (tbh this one is more of a zweilous replay lol)

Apologies for noms being late once again.

 

[Jett]

Welcome to the last VR update before the second DLC drops. You can find the votes here:

votes

Rises

B+ to A-. Duosion is moving up once again, because of how consistent both its setup sweeping (Calm Mind or Double Dance) and Future Sight sets are. Despite how commonly used Vullaby is, both of Duosion's sets can still be extremely punishing to these teams as it forces both predictable plays and demands more than just slapping a Dark-type onto a team, and both this extra preparation needed and ability to break past walls are deserving of a rise.

B- to B. Fletchinder has definitely established itself as a common Pokemon in the metagame with its main value being its ability to check both Thwakcey and Raboot. Toxic and Taunt also help to wear down passive Pokemon which would otherwise cripple Fletchinder with status of their own. Fletchinder is currently a great anti-meta Pokemon and its massive weakness to Stealth Rock is the main reason why it will only be moving up to B for the time being.

C+ to B-. Drakloak provides solid utility in Thunder Wave and U-turn, which continues to be a great offensive option against the ThwackeyBoot core. It sits at an amazing speed tier and with Hex is able to make up for its mediocre Special Attack stat, and all these factors combined put Drakloak a bit ahead of the Pokemon currently sitting in C+.

UR to C-. With its great unique defensive typing, Stunky is able to check a plethora of special attackers such as Kadabra, Gastly, Roselia, and Tangela. Whilst it lacks in offensive power, it more than makes up for it with great utility moves such as Toxic, Taunt and Corrosive Gas and it even has access to Sucker Punch giving it priority to finish off weakened/frailer targets. We're moving this up to C- for now, but we'll be keeping an eye on it as things could very likely change as we get more accustomed to playing against it/ with the changes DLC 2 is bringing.

UR to C+. For several updates now, Zweilous has been overlooked and forgotten in several nominations and is finally being ranked. Zweilous' band set hits incredibly hard and is pretty difficult to switch into, with Hustle being a double-edged sword. Its Nasty Plot set has great coverage and can bait in defensive walls such as Galarian Corsola and Tangela, and break past them with ease with a +2 STAB attack. Whilst it does lack speed for an offensive threat, being best suited to teams using Sticky Web, Zweilous is still an incredibly potent wallbreaker and one of the few which can be either physical or special.

UR to C. Natu diffrentiates itself from Hattrem with Toxic, Roost and Teleport and this lets it fit better on teams which are more reliant on having Galarian Corsola weakened for example. Being able to run Feather Dance separates itself from other birds such as Vullaby, as it means Natu isn't complete setup bait for Pokemon like Thwackey and Fraxure.

Drops (Or just drop this time ig)

B+ to B. Gastly is being dropped down because its seen a significant decrease in usage and its speed tier means it struggles against the common faster offensive Pokemon in the metagame. Being so frail it is easily punished by these Pokemon and people commonly preparing for Pokemon like Kadabra and Lampent, makes it even harder for something weaker like Gastly to deal damage to these checks.

Sorry OranBerryBlissey10 , you were a bit too late with these noms and we weren't able to vote on them or else we would not be able to get this out on time, but they're always appreciated.

Thanks everybody else for their nominations and the respective discussions on said noms. Hoping to see more of these soon especially with DLC 2 just around the corner!!