Night Stall

[Arcticblast]

Night Stall
A BW2 OU stall team by Arcticblast
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[pimg]490[/pimg][pimg]455[/pimg]

[pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]623[/pimg]

It all started with Cofagrigus. Yeah. I hadn't played OU in a while and I was moderating PS chat when I suddenly thought about that. Don't ask why. So I tried making a team around it, then alkinesthetase brought me to my senses. By then I had it, Jirachi, Forretress, and Heatran. I replaced Cofagrigus with Jellicent and moved on, adding Roserade and a nifty stallbreaker in Crobat. It was pretty nice, but it had its issues. I don't quite remember what changes I made at that point (I blame jonathanrp for considering Cradily though), but they all led here. And right now this team has some problems. Which is why I'm here. FIX MY TEAM DAMMIT I'm mostly having issues with the following things:
- Electric-types in general: Thankfully rare, but having four weaknesses to Electric doesn't exactly help me out.
- Reuniclus: fuck this thing. Less of an issue now
- Gastrodon: If Roserade goes down, this thing is awful to play around; I can't get rid of its status attacks and I can't spam Scald quite as much. (Somehow I'm okay with Rotom-W though.)
- DragSpam and Kyurem-B are annoying.

If you're going to rate this team, keep these things in mind:
- I would like to keep all three forms of hazards
- I would like to keep a spinner
- I would like to keep one grounded Poison-type
- I don't want to use weather unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary
- - No Politoed. Period.
- This is not a team that can deal a decisive blow; this is a team that whittles away at the opponent slowly and deals damage in smaller hits and passively. This is why Toxic Spikes is used instead of Spikes. (Tentacruel is relatively easy to get rid of...)
- I reserve the right to reject or modify suggestions as I see fit, or as they suit the team's style of play (e.g. if you suggest Terrakion, I will probably use Leftovers over a different item to conserve HP).

Changes recommended to me and implemented will be in red, and personal changes by me will be in green bold.

Okay, on to the team!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[pimg]623[/pimg]
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Magic Coat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Scald

Jellicent is one of the three remaining original members (the team wasn't done when I removed Cofagrigus) and serves a pivotal role in the function of the team. It's really the only viable defensive Ghost-type in the tier, automatically making it the best defensive spinblocker in the tier - which is pretty much a requirement on this team, considering my judicious use of hazards. The immunity to Water is also very important, as it gives me a check to the powerful Water attacks running amock in OU. Recover, Scald and Will-O-Wisp are obvious move choices, while Magic Coat is nice to reflect a Toxic back on Gastrodon or hazards back on Forretress / Deoxys-D (which is actually one of the more entertaining ways to start against Deo-D HO teams). Jellicent is quite possibly the MVP of this team, and I can't imagine the team without it. If any member is going to be permanent, it's Jellicent.

[pimg]455[/pimg]
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

As per Jirachi's and Leftiez's advice, I switched to Hippowdon. It's pretty solid, actually. Hippowdon's Sand Stream lets me rack up some more damage (which is really good, as you'll see with the next change). Stealth Rock is the most important hazard in the game. Slack Off gives me some quick healing. Whirlwind is nice for forcing out a switchin or just getting more damage, and Earthquake is nice when I actually have to attack. Hippowdon's cool.

[pimg]205[/pimg]
Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

With Hippowdon now on the team over Skarmory, Forretress returned to the lineup. You might notice that I'm running Toxic Spikes as Forry's only hazard. This is intentional - I have found that Toxic Spikes is my preferred hazard on this team, which deals damage over time more than at once. Anyway, Forretress also spins. Volt Switch is nice if I need to get out slowly. Gyro Ball takes chunks out of fast, powerful stuff that I can wall.

[pimg]490[/pimg]
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Protect

A Heatran without Stealth Rock? BLASPHEMY. Stealth Rock is elsewhere though; Heatran likes these moves. It's a relatively standard Specially Defensive set. Lava Plume nails Steels and can fish for burns. Roar phazes out dangerous things like Volcarona, and Protect scouts and racks up residual damage. It works incredibly well with Toxic, which is why Toxic is slated over Will-O-Wisp.

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Rest
- Extrasensory
- Aromatherapy

So I switched to Mandibuzz and it was doing really well, but I suddenly had massive issues with Tentacruel. What better way to do that then grab a grounded Poison-type? Roserade's usefulness goes beyond absorbing Toxic Spikes though - it can take out Toxicroak and Breloom while clearing status from the rest of the team. Extrasensory is there so I don't lose the benefits that Celebi's Psychic brought, as well as occasionally getting a random flinch. Rest works with Natural Cure to restore my health to full and cure Sleep with switching.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
- Foul Play

Thanks to Princess Bri for this suggestion. Mandibuzz is an incredible special wall, and it even takes out Psychic-types that the rest of the team hates. Taunt and Roost make it a great staller as well as a stallbreaker. Foul Play is a way to do heavy damage to frail Pokemon with high Attack. U-Turn was chosen over Torment because of its utility and because I honestly didn't see Torment as having much utility over a different move. The HP EVs give me a SR number while the Speed EVs outspeed 252 base 50s (arbitrary but w/e).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Importable --- thanks for reading!

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Magic Coat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Scald

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Protect

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Rest
- Extrasensory
- Aromatherapy

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
- Foul Play

​

 

[Leftiez]

Hi there.
It is a very interesting stall team, I very much appreciate the stalls, it is also my style of play, but in bw2 it is hard, I see weakness against Reuniclus CM Bulk, you have nothing to kill him, Skarmory is 2HKO by Focus Blast and if you fall on a counter after Whirlwind, you are forced to switch and the opponent can come after to continue, and Celebi cannot do anything against Reuniclus because he does not Perish song, and Reuniclus can set up easily, Crobat is OHKO by psyshock and even if you use Taunt, the opponent can switch after the death of Crobat and continue, after a Calm Mind Heatran is OHKO by Focus Blast, and Reuniclus can set up also on Jellicent, I suggest you put Sableye on Jellicent, Sableye is a very good pokemon for your team, because it is a very good counter against Reuniclus, it is immune against Focus Blast and Psyshock and he can Taunt + Foul play, then you got an antispinners, but it is also a counter to Alakazam, that can do a lot of damage against your team because it has Calm mind and he can OHKO/2HKO all your team, Celebi can be OHKO by Shadow ball after a Calm Mind, Jellicent is 2HKO and does not kill, Skarmory is OHKO by Focus Blast after a Calm mind and Heatran also, then even if you have Crobat the opponent can switch and come after to continue because you are forced to sacrifice a Pokémon to come with Crobat and Alakazam can resist against Brave Bird of your Crobat (80 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 241-285 (95.63 - 113.09%) -- 75% chance to OHKO)

Then your team is very disadvantaged against Terrakion Bander you have nothing for tank his Close Combat, because Skarmory is 2HKO, Tentacruel can take a Stone Edge, Jellicent also Celebi is 2HKO by Stone Edge also and if the opponent has Terrakion Sub salac Berry, you're 6-0'd, you are also very disadvantaged against Dragonite Dragon Dancer, it can set up easily on your team (Celebi/Jellicent/Heatran) and Skarmory is 2HKO by Fire Punch after a Dragon Dance, then if you fall also on a counter after Whirlwind the opponent can come after to finish, Tentacruel is OHKO by Earthquake, Celebi is OHKO by Fire Punch, Heatran is OHKO by EarthQuake and Crobat is OHKO by Outrage, Jellicent also, I suggest you put Hippowdon on Crobat, Hippowdon is a very good pokemon for your team, it can come easily on Terrakion with Earthquake then it dies not on Close Combat of Terrakion after a Sword Dance but it is also a very good counter for Dragonite because it has Ice Fang and he is 3HKO by Outrage of Dragonite after a Dragon Dance (Leftovers), and now you have a Weather against the Rain's Teams, Sun Teams (with Dugtrio).

Now u can swap Stealth Rock with Hidden Power Fire on Celebi for tank Scizor Trapp (Pursuit)/Forretress/Skarmory/Ferrothorn...

Sableye

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt

Hippowdon

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Fang
- Slack Off

Tl;dr

Hide

Jellicent--->Sableye
Crobat--->Hippowdon
Celebi--->Hidden Power Fire

Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.

~Leftiez

 

[Arcticblast]

Hey, thanks for the rate!

As weak to Reuniclus as I am (it was called the ultimate stallbreaker for a reason!) I really can't put Sableye over Jellicent - the bulk just doesn't compare. I was talking about this team with Jirachi last night, however, and we decided that Hippowdon will in fact make an appearance on this team - over Skarmory. Forretress will then take Tentacruel's place. I'll be testing this asap to see how it works.

 

[Explorer]

This is a neat team, but non-Choiced Thundurus-T with Hidden Power Ice runs through your whole team. Even Heatran dislikes a (+2) Thunderbolt/Focus Blast. Roar will not act quickly enough for Thundurus to be stopped sufficiently. This is my suggestion to keep T-Spikes and get around Thundurus-T (I don't see the Agility ones much, this works on slower ones):

Nidoking (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Toxic Spikes

Note this is unconventional. If you don't care about T-Spikes as much, go ahead and replace it with Fire Blast. Earth Power deals with the common Electric-types (and non-Air Balloon Heatran), bar Thundurus-T, which is worked around with Ice Beam (having rocks before it comes on the field is better still). Thunderbolt deals with Rain Teams well and gives Nidoking Boltbeam, while Toxic Spikes is kept. Make sure that, if being used to counter Thundurus, that it is not Scarfed or is an Agility variant before you switch Nidoking in. If Thundurus is locked into HP Ice, threaten it out with Jellicent or Heatran.

 

[Eggbert]

Hi, I'm not sure what you changed with hippo and fort, but I have a few ideas for your current build. I think the fort/hippo change might be good since you are very weak to CBtar and terrakion. My changes won't be related to them. If you are worried about reuniclus, run perish song on Celebi, since Celebi walls it to death regardless of the set. To make room for it, move stealth rock to heatran, who is much better at setting them up. Gastrodon shouldn't be difficult for you, since you can toxic it very easily while Celebi walls it all day. I'd also advise running toxic over toxic spikes on tentacruel. It might sound stupid, but it allows you to beat enemy jellicent easily so you can spin. Tentacruel and Venusaur are very common, so toxic spikes are near useless. If you want to run Psychic on Celebi over giga drain (make sure to have shadow ball on jellicent for starmie if you do this) you can handle thundurus, the only electric type that can hurt this team. Celebi walls every electric commonly seen so you shouldn't have any problems. Anyway the team looks good and I like the use of crobat.

Summary:
- Change Celebi's moveset to (Psychic / Giga Drain) / Recover / Heal Bell / Perish Song
- Stealth Rock on Heatran (or hippo)
- Toxic > Toxic Spikes on tentacruel. I know you want hazards, but this is a good option to put on the table.
- Shadow Ball on Jelli if you run psychic

 

[Arcticblast]

Hello Explorer and Eggbert, thanks for the rates!

I'm going to have to reject Explorer's Nidoking; it's just straight-up not what the team is looking for. I'm not looking for offense.

Eggbert, Perish Song is actually a great idea. Unfortunately, I can't decide which move to remove for it. I'm currently running Giga Drain and Psychic side by side (what else am I switching into Breloom? A bunch can bone Crobat with Stone Edge), and each serve an important function. SR is currently on Hippowdon, and Tenta is... gone.

Here are the sets I am running on Forretress and Hippowdon (note: no more Skarm, no more Tentacruel):

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Yes, I am aware I no longer have Spikes. I honestly find Toxic Spikes more valuable to the success of this team.
I'll edit these into the OP tomorrow.

 

[Lavos]

not going to do a full rate, but just as a quick note, your team could really use a wish passer because tentacruel's your only way to prevent a slow death against other stall teams and as soon as it goes down you're basically done. also, a rock-type resist would be good to have as well, since when rocks are on the field, choice band ttar can come in on a crobat taunt or something and start spamming stone edge, which incidentally 2hkos your entire team. one idea is to fit specially defensive jirachi on the team somewhere, but then you kind of lose your insurance against either sun, rain, or sand...

weatherless stall is impossible nowadays :|

 

[Arcticblast]

Lavos, I think you were writing that when I posted my update... Oops? :\

 

[toshimelonhead]

If Reuniclus/CM Jirachi remain a problem, it might be easier to put Perish Song on Celebi and change the moveset a little bit. Here is what I would use:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SAtk / 112 Spd
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Perish Song
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The EV's are a tad more offensive but you can modify that. The important level is the 112 speed to reach 263 speed to outspeed Breloom.

(EDIT): Didn't realize others suggested Perish Song too...I'll keep the set here for another option against Breloom.

 

[Explorer]

Hello again,

If you don't wish to have a revenge killer, you can try something that's a bit like the Nidoking set:

Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sheer Force/Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
Nature: Modest/Calm/Sassy
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Toxic
-Roar/Dragon Tail

This set lets you keep punishing Electric-types while spreading poison and phasing the opponent's team (if a Sassy nature is used move the Speed EVs into Special Defense; only do this with Dragon Tail). Ice Beam also gives good coverage, including the Therians on the switch, Gliscor on the switch, and all of the common dragons bar Kingdra.

I know this is RU, but give it a shot! It better suits the defensive style of your team.

 

[tito]

since everyone is suggesting different celebi sets...

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spe
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Perish Song
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain

as people mentioned before perish song to help against cm reunicles and u-turn so youre not such pursuit bait against scizor and tyranitar, also adds pressure to your opponent thanks to entry hazards. anyways nice team dude!

 

[charlord]

I can tell you love your crobat- very understandable, I love that little guy too. At the same time- might I suggest you give Swellow a shot. It can run basically the same set, but it can give you a switch-in to to burns and toxics and once it is statused, it has the power to get through things like reuniclus. Just a thought!

 

[Arcticblast]

I'm sorry Charlord, but no. Swellow has almost no bulk (Crobat doesn't have a ton either though...), has half the number of resistances as Crobat, and doesn't learn Taunt. In addition, Swellow doesn't really beat Reuniclus at all.

In other news, I have updated the team.

EDIT:
Naheed: Hi, Arcticblast. I noticed that you wrote a RMT. Thanks for making that team. I've had success with it.
I have a copier :O as awkward as this is it makes me feel better inside n_n

 

[shrang]

Good team. I can't see many weaknesses apart from the NP Thundurus-T one everyone else has been bringing up since you haven't got much that can wall it, while Crobat can't revenge kill a relatively healthy one. An offensive Latias could do well to patch up most of your weaknesses, IMO, but I'm not too sure which Pokemon you should replace (maybe Celebi, but Heal Bell is very valuable for a team that lacks Toxic Spikes absorbers). The set is simply Draco Meteor / Surf / HP Fire / Recover @ Life Orb.

 

[asterat]

I think that this team lacks a serious "win condition" or set up pokemon or powerhouse to clean up late game. A very easy way to incorporate one of these into your team is running a CM HP fire latias over you current celebi. Celebi can help against lots of stuff but latias can deal with most of it. Latias also supplies you with a solid answer to sun teams as heatran loses to mixed venusaur or dugtrio. Using toxic on crobat would allow you to KO annoying bulky waters. Roar is an alternative option to help some against reuniclus. Also try toxic > U-turn on crobat to get rid of gastrodon.

 

[Arcticblast]

Thanks for the suggestions, Asterat and shrang! I'm really torn about using Latias, to be honest.
Pros:
- easier win condition
- effective in all weathers
- more solid answer to RP Landorus, who is slightly problematic but can be taken out
- jesus christ that thing is bulky

Cons:
- Weak to Dragon (didn't realize the DragSpam problem until recently...)
- Latias doesn't learn Heal Bell
- what's the fun in offense?

This is something I will be considering, although I'll need either another cleric or a grounded Poison-type.

Asterat, I will not use Toxic on Crobat, a Pokemon with some abusable weaknesses that it really appreciates having U-Turn for. Bulky Waters? That's what Toxic on Heatran and Toxic Spikes on Forretress are for, after all! n_n

 

[Electrolyte]

Hey Arcticblast!

Lol, I remember seeing you battle with Roserade; and even back then the team was pretty solid. With Hippo and Forre, the team is really great and has good synergy. The only problems I can see here is a slight weakness to powerful setup sweepers with coverage- Thundurus-T being a big and obvious one, with Reuniclus and some Sun Sweepers on the list as well. I know you really like Heal Bell on Celebi, but I agree with many others that Perish Song over Heal Bell is a great idea. Heal Bell doesn't seem as useful as your team doesn't really mind TSpikes or status- half your team is immune to Toxic, you have a Spinner to spin away Toxic Spikes, and you have a Magic Coater and a Natural Healer- so your team doesn't mind status much. Perish Song can at least be used to force out setup sweepers that can beat Heatran and Hippo, as well as Baton Pass teams, who could also give you problems, passing to Espeon to relect your phazing attempts. Speaking of Espeon, it seems as if some particular Magic Bouncers (obv Xatu / Espeon) can sit their butts down and just reflect everything you try to throw at them. Espeon can heal itself with Recover and Calm Mind in your face; it can survive a BBird and Recover off a U-Turn. Being able to force Espeon out with Celebi will definitely be a huge help.

Being that Psychic / Ghost types like Xatu / Espeon / Reuniclus / Lati@s / Gengar can be quite troubling, since each of them can either reflect / escape your stall attempts or just pummel your team to death with STABs and coverage. Just to give you a little just-in-case tool, you could try Shadow Ball over Scald on Jellicent. This hits those Psychic types pretty hard even without any SpA investment; not enough to sweep anything but at least enough to prevent setup / speed up stall process. Scald is useful at times to hit through Fire types, but Hippo does that even better, and Heatran can wall most Fire / Steel types and Stall them to death anyway. Also, because you have WoW already, the burn from a scald is no longer necessary.

Now for an even tinier nitpick, your spread for Crobat is no longer as efficient now that your team doesn't carry Spikes; a spread of 186 HP / 144 Atk / 176 Spe Jolly might be better; this lets you OHKO Keldeo even after SR. This spread also does something neat in that it 2HKO's 252 HP Espeon with U-Turn, which is always nice. It lets you 2HKO Latios after SR with UTurn as well. This all are very minute differences, but they can help, so I'd suggest you try them. Crobat's bulk isn't that great anyway so you won't be dieing to any more hits.

Now for a more optional change; your team is weak to Duggy Sun so to help with that you can use Air Balloon instead of Leftovers on Heatran. However, it's a small threat, and Lefties is better on pretty much everything else, so it's up to your own preference.

I'm being really picky because your team is extremely solid. There is a lot of great defensive synergy in your team, which is great for a stall team such as yours. Hopefully at least one of these suggestions help.

Good luck, my friend!

 

[dice]

Sup.

Cool team. I honestly do not see why you need Crobat on this team though. You have one of the best counters to Breloom in the game and Crobat's typing isn't even that desirable since it can't remove Toxic Spikes even. Additionally, the main problems to your team were posted in the post above me. In short:

• Psychic types in general. CM Reuniclus 6-0's, Alakazam gives problems since Crobat can't switch in, Espeon.. etc.
• Duggy sun which traps Heatran and then Venusaur goes to town
• HP Ground Volcarona 6-0's
• Gengar is an assholeeee
• You lack a stallbreaker of your own; opposing stall with spinblocking will make you cry. Crobat is forced out by common stall wall, e.g. Scarf Tyranitar and Heatran.

With these threats and Crobat's redundancy kept in mind, I would recommend a Mandibuzz instead of Crobat. Mandibuzz actually performs Crobat's role, but actually checks a few other crucial threats that Crobat does not. For starters, Mandibuzz can effective beat CM Reuniclus with Torment while OHKO'ing offensive HP Ground Volcarona with Foul Play after rox and effectively utilize Taunt to break opposing stall. Unlike Crobat, Mandibuzz doesn't care about switching into Gengar, Alakazam, or several sun sweepers at all. It is immune to the Psychic-STAB so Psychic types are no longer problematic, and it solves pretty much all of your teams problems. A cool thing with using Mandibuzz is that you can use Overcoat and you're immune to Sand damage! The set I would try out is Foul Play / Torment / Roost / Taunt @ Leftovers with EV's of 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe and a Calm Nature.



I hope this helped. Good luck.