Pokémon Noivern

[Turbopasta]

Would a Choiced Frisk Switcheroo set be viable? It's super fast, so it could easily get a Switcheroo off on a defensive Pokémon, although if the opponent guesses that and switches a MEvo out, or a Choiced Pokémon to absorb the Switcheroo, the surprise factor is kaputted, and Noivern could potentially be one-shot because its' fragility.

In gen 5 I used to run lead porygon-z with choice scarf and trick. It almost always caught the enemy off guard and worked in my favor. Sometimes I would trick my scarf onto a tyranitar setting up stealth rocks, Or I would grab someone's focus sash, take a hit from them with 1 hp left, and kill them with the next attack. And if tricking my item wasn't viable, I would just go for a tri-attack or a thunderbolt and it just tore teams apart.

The reason I mention porygon-z at all is that they seem very similar when you run them as trick leads. The fact that noivern gets frisk is kind of incredible, now you can see if someone else is choiced before they even start attacking, or if they're doing some weird strategy you wouldn't have thought of. You can also play around with stuff like red cards and weakness policies too. I guess theres a little bit of risk vs Sp attackers, since if you switcheroo on an attack from them you're gone.

I've been running some calculations, and it seems like with a choice spec (since noi doesn't need any more speed than he already has, unlike pory), noivern is doing just about as much damage as porygon-z usually does, more if you start using draco meteor.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

In gen 5 I used to run lead porygon-z with choice scarf and trick. It almost always caught the enemy off guard and worked in my favor. Sometimes I would trick my scarf onto a tyranitar setting up stealth rocks, Or I would grab someone's focus sash, take a hit from them with 1 hp left, and kill them with the next attack. And if tricking my item wasn't viable, I would just go for a tri-attack or a thunderbolt and it just tore teams apart.

The reason I mention porygon-z at all is that they seem very similar when you run them as trick leads. The fact that noivern gets frisk is kind of incredible, now you can see if someone else is choiced before they even start attacking, or if they're doing some weird strategy you wouldn't have thought of. You can also play around with stuff like red cards and weakness policies too. I guess theres a little bit of risk vs Sp attackers, since if you switcheroo on an attack from them you're gone.

I've been running some calculations, and it seems like with a choice spec (since noi doesn't need any more speed than he already has, unlike pory), noivern is doing just about as much damage as porygon-z usually does, more if you start using draco meteor.

The one difference between Porygon-Z and Noivern is that Z is potentially able to tank an attack or two because it's pretty bulky, but Noivern can't tank anything due to its' lacklustre stats. But it'll be able to find a niche in this meta, and I think Switcheroo might just be that niche.. Frisk is amazing on Noivern, especially with Switcheroo, so you know exactly what you're Switcheroo'ing and crippling for the rest of the fight. And plus, Noivern is able to use Switcheroo effectively because it is a super fast Pokémon, just like Z can because it's bulky and Sableye can use Trick (essentially the exact same move) because of its' Prankster shenanigans. It's always satisfying to cripple an extremely threatening Physical attacker or a defensive powerhouse with Specs, setting the groundwork for your other Pokémon to wreck house.

 

[mattplex]

This is the set I'm running too. What item do you use? Choice specs for the extra oomph or Life Orb to revenge kill then U-Turn away from a counter?

Probably Life Orb as his damage sometimes leaves a little to be desired due to the Jolly nature.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

Probably Life Orb as his damage sometimes leaves a little to be desired due to the Jolly nature.

I'm assuming you meant Timid and not Jolly, right? Because you should never use physical Noivern. Ever.

 

[mattplex]

I'm assuming you meant Timid and not Jolly, right? Because you should never use physical Noivern. Ever.

haha Yes I meant Timid. Thanks!

 

[Terminate421]

Would a Choiced Frisk Switcheroo set be viable? It's super fast, so it could easily get a Switcheroo off on a defensive Pokémon, although if the opponent guesses that and switches a MEvo out, or a Choiced Pokémon to absorb the Switcheroo, the surprise factor is kaputted, and Noivern could potentially be one-shot because its' fragility.

NOW YOU GET IT

This is how I've run my Noivern. The intent being to "Item Sap" (I am trying to make that an official term here for certain pokemon but no luck).

You want to Switcheroo onto something like Blissey or Cresselia. The intent being you want to hit a pokemon who REALLY doesn't want that item. I've actually guessed correctly a few times with Cloyster and Shell Shock effectively nerfing him into a free kill.

 

[TheJFrenzy1]

It's incredibly useful if you're using it on a frisk lead ( I love it), as it gives you a way to bypass subs (screw gliscor).

It also gives you an easily spammed move without fearing spatk drops, or misses.

infiltrator gives you the ability to bypass subs not frisk. i dont get why people run frisk on noivern over infiltrator, infiltrator is way more useful now that it's been buffed

 

[Darkamber8828]

infiltrator gives you the ability to bypass subs not frisk. i dont get why people run frisk on noivern over infiltrator, infiltrator is way more useful now that it's been buffed

probably because boomburst already penetrates subs

 

[Darknut07]

infiltrator gives you the ability to bypass subs not frisk. i dont get why people run frisk on noivern over infiltrator, infiltrator is way more useful now that it's been buffed

Boomburst goes through subs anyways. Sometimes knowing the items is kinda useful. I like frisk, but I can see why people prefer infiltrator.

 

[MagicMissingno]

infiltrator gives you the ability to bypass subs not frisk. i dont get why people run frisk on noivern over infiltrator, infiltrator is way more useful now that it's been buffed

Because knowing what item someone's running gives you a serious edge. Remember a Pokemon that's just sent out could be running one out of N number of sets and knowing the item goes a long way in figuring out what set it's running. It can also ruin a surprise mon.

 

[Machamp]

Ya I love frisk. Definitely reveals a set before any move is performed.
Plus with the buff to Knock Off, it really lets me know what I should be slapping off first!

 

[FurryGah]

So it's pretty much been decided that this is Noivern's best set, right?

Noivern @ Choice Specs
Frisk / Infiltrator
Timid / Naive 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-U-Turn / Switcheroo
-Draco Meteor
-Hurricane / Boomburst
-Focus Blast / Flamethrower

Use Frisk with Switcheroo + Boomburst, otherwise Infiltrator.

 

[Machamp]

So it's pretty much been decided that this is Noivern's best set, right?

Noivern @ Choice Specs
Frisk / Infiltrator
Timid / Naive 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-U-Turn / Switcheroo
-Draco Meteor
-Hurricane / Boomburst
-Focus Blast / Flamethrower

Use Frisk with Switcheroo + Boomburst, otherwise Infiltrator.

This is what I got!

 

[Richitt]

I use taunt in the place of u-turn/switcheroo, just as a giant middle finger to the ongoing scolipedes/smeargles/galvantulas who pack focus sash (which I see, thanks to frisk).

 

[Dralcax]

Boomburst is simply incredible. Ridiculous base power, perfect accuracy, no drawbacks, and hits through Substitute. Noivern is probably the best user of this move, and can hit very hard. Apart from possibly Klefki, it can do significant damage to most Fairy-types.

 

[TheTtarManCan]

I still do not understand how people can say one ability is far superior than the other when they are so very different. Both Frisk and Infiltrator have their uses and just the fact that you have to good abilities to chose from makes Noivern better as a whole. Different sets call for different abilities. Simple as that guys.

 

[farranpoison]

Made a Noivern, and even though it doesn't get STAB Boomburst is freaking sick. 140 BP no drawback move is stupid ridiculous. Sure, it's somewhat hindered by Noivern's average SpA, but still. Running a Frisk Noivern with Switcheroo/DM/Flamethrower/Boomburst and Boomburst is usually the best move to spam.

 

[Tathens]

-_- I always have a habit of breeding before reading these threads. I have a 5IV Noivern Modest with Frisk. I know I'm not going to be outspeeding anything over 110 base (Timid Gengar outspeeds me by 5 points). Have yet to test him out, But hopefully he still hits hard for everyone under 110 base

 

[Quaily]

hurricane seems pretty crap if you don't have rain. there's air slash I guess but flying just doesn't hit very many things for SE damage. has anyone tried roost out? 85/80/80 defenses are honestly not that bad with the numerous useful resists dragon gives. draco/boomburst/flamethrower/roost hits pretty much everything except ttar and heatran, and nothing else it can run would help much with them except hp:ground which is dumb, and focus miss.

 

[Terminate421]

In gen 5 I used to run lead porygon-z with choice scarf and trick. It almost always caught the enemy off guard and worked in my favor. Sometimes I would trick my scarf onto a tyranitar setting up stealth rocks, Or I would grab someone's focus sash, take a hit from them with 1 hp left, and kill them with the next attack. And if tricking my item wasn't viable, I would just go for a tri-attack or a thunderbolt and it just tore teams apart.

The reason I mention porygon-z at all is that they seem very similar when you run them as trick leads. The fact that noivern gets frisk is kind of incredible, now you can see if someone else is choiced before they even start attacking, or if they're doing some weird strategy you wouldn't have thought of. You can also play around with stuff like red cards and weakness policies too. I guess theres a little bit of risk vs Sp attackers, since if you switcheroo on an attack from them you're gone.

I've been running some calculations, and it seems like with a choice spec (since noi doesn't need any more speed than he already has, unlike pory), noivern is doing just about as much damage as porygon-z usually does, more if you start using draco meteor.

I found Switcheroo-ing a burn orb onto something has horrific consequences for an opponent with a wall.

Steal their leftovers and then give them a reverse leftovers/status. Then weaken them if their a physical attacker. The key is to using Switcheroo at the start because one mess up and you have a burned Noivern, not useless considering he's a special attacker but now he is even more fragile.

 

[phoenix0wright]

I found Switcheroo-ing a burn orb onto something has horrific consequences for an opponent with a wall.

Steal their leftovers and then give them a reverse leftovers/status. Then weaken them if their a physical attacker. The key is to using Switcheroo at the start because one mess up and you have a burned Noivern, not useless considering he's a special attacker but now he is even more fragile.

Burn Orb is a mediocre gimmick at best and a clear detriment at its worst. With a Burn Orb, you can't switch in at all except after one of your pokemon faints, since otherwise it will activate, you'll get burned, and your gimmick will be revealed. You're essentially playing 5v6 until it can come in without burning itself. Switcheroo is OK as a fourth move, but Burn Orb is straight up bad. Just give it a Choice item. That still cripples walls and lets you use Noivern effectively, even without swapping items.

 

[Terminate421]

Burn Orb is a mediocre gimmick at best and a clear detriment at its worst. With a Burn Orb, you can't switch in at all except after one of your pokemon faints, since otherwise it will activate, you'll get burned, and your gimmick will be revealed. You're essentially playing 5v6 until it can come in without burning itself. Switcheroo is OK as a fourth move, but Burn Orb is straight up bad. Just give it a Choice item. That still cripples walls and lets you use Noivern effectively, even without swapping items.

Gimmick: a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business

WHY would that be considered a way to attract attention. Even then, WHY would that be considered a gimmick.

Gimmicks rely on one strategy for a specific thing, here I am using Noivern as his primary role on my team, Item Sapping. Choice scarf/scarf/band has it's use this way, but there is the chance I can lock my opponent into using something that they LIKE. This is unless of course I used it.

Who are you to judge a different way to use it? So far it's stopped Garchomp dead in it's tracks, Tyranitar's assault vest is gone in exhange for something painful, and a buffed Goodra lost it's leftovers until it went down hard.. Don't ever call my shit "gimmick" without even knowing what I'm doing. Seriously, you make it sound insulting.

 

[Richitt]

You can stop garchomp with a meteor.
If he's swapping in, he'll eat a meteor and die.
If you're swapping into him, you'll kill him with a meteor.
There's like no situation where burning would be better.
If the chomp has a scarf, it doesn't matter because either he died to your meteor switching in, or you're switching out. Switch doesn't increase the opportunities here.

If the chomp is a mega, you can't switcheroo anyways.


This is not me hating on the idea, because i think it's a decent idea. Rather, im saying it doesn't do anything garchomp your usual spec'd meteor wouldn't.

 

[silfan]

Your shit is actually really a gimmick. It only serves to look and sound cool, but actually fails to contribute in a meaningful way in practice 90% of the time.
Just to name few scenario where you would've wished you don't run the gimmicky flame orb is when your enemy:
1. Switch in a pokemon with mega stone
2. Switch in something with guts
3. Switch in Gliscor who is already in toxic condition from toxic orb
4. Switch in fire type who does noy mind burn
5. Use a fast taunt
Additionally, like mentioned before you need to sacrifice a pokemon before you can bring in flame orb noivern, else you will just get burned.

 

[phoenix0wright]

Gimmick: a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business

WHY would that be considered a way to attract attention. Even then, WHY would that be considered a gimmick.

Gimmicks rely on one strategy for a specific thing, here I am using Noivern as his primary role on my team, Item Sapping. Choice scarf/scarf/band has it's use this way, but there is the chance I can lock my opponent into using something that they LIKE. This is unless of course I used it.

Who are you to judge a different way to use it? So far it's stopped Garchomp dead in it's tracks, Tyranitar's assault vest is gone in exhange for something painful, and a buffed Goodra lost it's leftovers until it went down hard.. Don't ever call my shit "gimmick" without even knowing what I'm doing. Seriously, you make it sound insulting.

A gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature. You may fool someone once, but when you're laddering you'll face people multiple times, and no one worth their salt will be fooled twice.

Congrats, you managed to swap a Burn Orb onto a physical attacker a couple times. I KOed some stuff with a choice specs Blissey before. That doesn't make either idea good.

And sure, you may accidentally trick a choice item onto something that doesn't mind it... if you predict poorly. And yes, some pokemon are hurt more by a Burn Orb more than a Choice Scarf. That doesn't make up for the MASSIVE downsides to running a self-status item. In order for you to not shoot yourself in the foot, you A) can't ever switch Noivern in except after something fainting; and B) must use Switcheroo the first turn it's in play. If those two conditions aren't met, you just burned yourself and gave away your shitty set. On the other hand, you could run an item that's actually useful (HINT: like Choice Specs) and turn your Noivern as a fast and hard-hitting Special Attacker, even if an opportunity doesn't present itself to use Switcheroo.

If you don't want people giving honest criticism on your set, maybe you shouldn't post it online in a competitive environment.

EDIT: Also, I just realized that you mentioned tricking your Burn Orb onto a Goodra and mark it up as a big win. It really wasn't since if you could've just taken it out with Draco Meteor (though since you're carrying a Burn Orb you'd burn yourself)