I think we don't have item clause here, using multiple life orb is allowed if I am not misinterpreting your meaning.
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Pokémon Noivern
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
I think we don't have item clause here, using multiple life orb is allowed if I am not misinterpreting your meaning.
Unless he means having different roles, like all out attacker or wallbreaker, like specs/LO
Just in addition to the Choice Specs set, I've been running Switcheroo instead of U-Turn. It really is great for toying with physical attackers as well as giving it the ability to survive as the last pokemon on a team, unloading it's choice item and then attacking with Hurricane and Focus Blast to finish nicely with a well placed Draco Meteor.
If anything, LO + U-turn is terrible. Sacrificing 10% of your health to use a move that's pathetically weak and can't hurt anything is pretty bad.
And limiting yourself to just 1 item really isn't helpful.
I think i'm seeing the problem. Everyone seems to look at noivern and think, "I want him to revenge kill or I want him to sweep". But from what people are coming up with, it doesn't seem like he can meet up with expectations. I think the best bet for noivern is to ignore the notion that it needs stay in to fight, and instead use it as a scout to plan out what you need to do. It should however, need to be able to do damage if you can get an opening.
Noivern @ ?????
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/ 4HP/ 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty/ Naive/ timid Just needs to be fast really.
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Protect
- Swicheroo / Taunt / Roost?
Basically you just want to know what to expect from the opponent. Frisk is definitely perfect for this. you'll know what the enemy has and with switcheroo you can steal items whenever it benefits you most.
Protect is obviously to scout for what moves the opponent has, and can work in tandem with taunt. Protect to see what to expect. If they use a move to buffer or inflict status or use protect themselves, use taunt to stop that then go in for Draco Meteor to wreck them or U-Turn to break anything like multiscale, focus sash, or sturdy and have another pokemon to come in and finish them off. Draco Meteor also works perfectly with U-Turn, reseting the stat loss from the draco meteor. And if you finish off the pokemon with draco meteor, you get to scout the next pokemon, with protect, taunt or switcheroo, and then U-Turn
your ass out of there. Roost might not be the best choice for something like this, but if you can think of a way for it to work then all the power to you. As for held items, You might not need one if you run switcheroo, but with taunt, you could probably use life orb to boost damage to draco meteor and u-turn. And if it get's hit with taunt, just u-turn to fix that.
That's the best way i can think to use noivern and it shouldn't be hard to find ways to counter this, but i think it definitely makes better for a scouting type spot. Any thoughts?
Noivern @ ?????
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/ 4HP/ 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty/ Naive/ timid Just needs to be fast really.
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Protect
- Swicheroo / Taunt / Roost?
Basically you just want to know what to expect from the opponent. Frisk is definitely perfect for this. you'll know what the enemy has and with switcheroo you can steal items whenever it benefits you most.
Protect is obviously to scout for what moves the opponent has, and can work in tandem with taunt. Protect to see what to expect. If they use a move to buffer or inflict status or use protect themselves, use taunt to stop that then go in for Draco Meteor to wreck them or U-Turn to break anything like multiscale, focus sash, or sturdy and have another pokemon to come in and finish them off. Draco Meteor also works perfectly with U-Turn, reseting the stat loss from the draco meteor. And if you finish off the pokemon with draco meteor, you get to scout the next pokemon, with protect, taunt or switcheroo, and then U-Turn
your ass out of there. Roost might not be the best choice for something like this, but if you can think of a way for it to work then all the power to you. As for held items, You might not need one if you run switcheroo, but with taunt, you could probably use life orb to boost damage to draco meteor and u-turn. And if it get's hit with taunt, just u-turn to fix that.
That's the best way i can think to use noivern and it shouldn't be hard to find ways to counter this, but i think it definitely makes better for a scouting type spot. Any thoughts?
I was thinking of a choice specs set
Pokedex Number: #715
Type(s): Flying/Dragon
Base Stats: 85 / 70 / 80 / 97 / 80 / 123
Abilities: Frisk, Infiltrator, and Telepathy
Known Notable Moves:
Roost
Super Fang
Dragon Pulse
Draco Meteor
Taunt
Flamethrower (Used by opponent ingame)
U-turn
Hurricane
Focus Blast
Boomburst (Will Update if/when more notable moves are found)
The first thing you notice about Noivern when looking at its stats is that really high base Speed stat. Sitting at around base 123 Speed, Noivern will most definitely be able to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame, whatever tier it ends up in, which is of course a good advantage for any Pokemon to have. Outside of the Speed stat, all of Noivern's other stats have the potential to be solid, but not absolutely outstanding, with a decent/good Special Attack stat standing out as it can be utilized quite well in combination with its great Speed stat, U-turn, and two high BP Special STABs in Draco Meteor and Hurricane. I'm not sure Noivern has the raw power needed to make it all the way up to OU on paper as base 97 Special Attack is solidbut not incredible, especially with competition from things like the eon duo when it comes to being a special attacking Dragon-type who are both significantly stronger, lack a weakness to Stealth Rock, and while slower are still pretty fast, but to me it will definitely end up as a solid UU threat at least (although we'll have to see for ourselves as the metagame unfurls!). What do you think? Potential sets that i think Noivern could use effectively are listed below in hide tags, which one do you think will be the most effective in x/y? which ones might not be effective at all? how could some of the sets be improved? and lastly, are there any other good noivern sets that you can think of? Personally, i really like the look of Choice Specs Noivern, and i think it'll be a solid choice in whatever metagame it ends up in.
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower / Focus Blast / Boomburst
- U-turn
Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower / Focus Blast / Boomburst
- Roost
Noivern @ Leftovers / Life Orb maybe?
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Dragon Pulse
-Flamethrower / Focus Blast / Boomburst
- Roost
252 sp atk and speed
Switheroo
Dragon pulse/draco meteor
Hidden power steel/boomburst/focus blast
Hurricane
I really think Noivern can work well with Mega Aggron to make a pretty decent offensive core. Noivern resists or is immune to Mega Aggron's fire, fighting and ground weaknesses while Mega Aggron resists Noivern's ice, dragon, rock and fairy weaknesses. I think this can work well as Noivern is a strong special attacker while Mega Aggron is a strong physical attacker. Mega Aggron can check/counter the following UU pokemon with Iron Head, Earthquake and Stone Edge coverage: Arcanine, Weavile, Tentacruel, Metagross, Mega Manectric, Jirachi, Heracross, Mega Heracross, Gardevoir, Galvantula, Florges, Noivern and Cloyster. Noivern can check/counter the following pokemon with Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Flamethrower, and Focus Blast coverage: Absol, Mega Aggron, Celebi, Forretress, Kangaskhan, Kingdra, Medicham, Trevenant, and Umbreon (I didn't name a pokemon more than once). One problem I see is that they have no good way to deal with bulky waters. Aggron can learn ThunderPunch, but that still leaves no true way to deal with Gastrodon, Donphan, or Sableye. A duo like this could fare well with a grass type teammate to get as much coverage as possible, but I'm still not sure who could fill that spot. Any ideas?
While Mega Aggron has base 140 attack, I'm not sure how he would play out as a physical tank. What's your set for that?
They could pair together as physical tank and special revenge killer, or maybe even as two stallbreakers.
As for the grass type....
You can choose AV Tangrowth, who brings Knock Off support to the team, Virizion, who punishes incoming knock offs, Celebi, who provides Heal Bell.
Those are a few.
They could pair together as physical tank and special revenge killer, or maybe even as two stallbreakers.
As for the grass type....
You can choose AV Tangrowth, who brings Knock Off support to the team, Virizion, who punishes incoming knock offs, Celebi, who provides Heal Bell.
Those are a few.
Thanks, I'll try it out and see how good it is in competitive play. It looks really great on paper, though.
EDIT: My set for Mega Aggron is Autotomize, Iron Head, Earthquake, and Stone Edge.
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You are right. Boomburst is basically Hyper Beam with perfect accuracy and no recharge.
Boomburst's ability to get through substitutes without Infiltrator is a big deal, but as for Fairies, Hurricane will do more to most Fairy type pokemon just because of Stab. I don't really like Noivern's reliance on Hurricane and Draco Meteor as Hurricane has terrible accuracy and Draco Meteor will force you to switch after use. Noivern looks more like a scout, but it uses it's pathetic attack stat when U-turning. Boomburst is probably one of Noivern's most redeeming factors. Frisk is a great ability on a Scout, so I guess that's a big thing to point out, as DaisyHead said. Any other notable reasons for not using something else as a scout like, say, Greninja? Even Tornadus-T looks like a better scout as it has Regenerator, allowing it to scout while holding a Life Orb or scout while holding a Choice Scarf, even with Stealth Rocks up. If there is something I'm missing here, please inform me.
Personally, I like to use a Specs Noivern to mess with substitute users such as Kyurem-B and Gliscor, as I find Chandelure not always pulling its weight.
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Infiltrator
4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
IVs: 29 HP
Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Switcheroo
- Flamethrower / Taunt
- Hurricane
Noivern is definitely not a sweeper, and probably not a revenge killer. Even more than a scout, I find it to be a stallbreaker. This set, however, is only specialized toward my needs. Specs Draco Meteor nails Kyurem and Gliscor behind substitutes. Switcheroo is my option to cripple a defensive mon, and I can freely switch moves afterwards. Flamethrower is coverage on steels, and it can hit things like Klefki behind subs, but you can replace it with Taunt for further stallbreaker potential after the Switcheroo.
He's versatile, but not immediately threatening in the sense that it must be prepared for somewhere in each team.
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Infiltrator
4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
IVs: 29 HP
Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Switcheroo
- Flamethrower / Taunt
- Hurricane
Noivern is definitely not a sweeper, and probably not a revenge killer. Even more than a scout, I find it to be a stallbreaker. This set, however, is only specialized toward my needs. Specs Draco Meteor nails Kyurem and Gliscor behind substitutes. Switcheroo is my option to cripple a defensive mon, and I can freely switch moves afterwards. Flamethrower is coverage on steels, and it can hit things like Klefki behind subs, but you can replace it with Taunt for further stallbreaker potential after the Switcheroo.
He's versatile, but not immediately threatening in the sense that it must be prepared for somewhere in each team.
Well, Noivern seems to fit the role of Stallbreaker with its Infiltrator ability. In my opinion, Noivern needs to fit on a team. I don't think you can just simply put him on a team and expect him to perform well.
Whoa, last time I checked this thread was back when the game got released. I see people are still debating which set to run on Noivern, which I think happens because he`s quite a versatile mon and can do various things in a team. This is the set I run on him, I like to use him more as a scout/anti-lead
Noivern @ (I haven`t decided on what item to use on him, constantly change it to experiment...any help here?)
Infiltrator
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
Timid
- Boomburst
- Super Fang
- Taunt
- U-turn
Essentially just outspeed the enemy and taunt them so they can`t set themselves (hazards/boosting), Super Fangs takes care of their tanks and screws quite a bit of mons in my experience (I`m looking at you Bellydrum Azumarill). Boomburst because it`s really good and goes along with denying the enemy momentum (substitute then recovering behind it), love this attack...and U-turn is self explanatory. It`s been working for my team, Volcarona loves it.
Noivern @ (I haven`t decided on what item to use on him, constantly change it to experiment...any help here?)
Infiltrator
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Speed
Timid
- Boomburst
- Super Fang
- Taunt
- U-turn
Essentially just outspeed the enemy and taunt them so they can`t set themselves (hazards/boosting), Super Fangs takes care of their tanks and screws quite a bit of mons in my experience (I`m looking at you Bellydrum Azumarill). Boomburst because it`s really good and goes along with denying the enemy momentum (substitute then recovering behind it), love this attack...and U-turn is self explanatory. It`s been working for my team, Volcarona loves it.
This definitely looks like an anti-lead. The item I'd recommend on a set like this would be Life Orb or Focus Sash. If you plan to switch in often, you will probably want a Life Orb over a Focus Sash. If you were to use a Focus Sash, you may want Draco Meteor instead of U-turn.
I understand the merits of Focus Sash, but why do you recommend Life Orb? I`m curious because U-Turn`s damage will still be kind of petty, Super Fang`s damage is set so it doesn`t get boosted so essentially Noivern will only use it on Boomburst. ust looking for discussion, hope it`s not taken the wrong way. I had experimented with Shell Bell because of Super Fang`s set damage but the heal was lower than expected (even against tanks), recently I`ve been trying the Normal Gem to get a strong Boomburst out there when needed and it seems to work fine (I`m not good with pokemon calculations, so I don`t know which has more merit Life Orb vs Normal Gem? What can the normal gem boosted Boomburst kill vs what can the LO one? etc).
I must say that Noivern became one of my favorite poke this Generation, it`s really cool looking, it`s a dragon (a plus in my book), and has a versatile moveset that allows him to fit a team`s needs.
Instead of Normal Gem or Life Orb, you could use a Silk Scarf for Boomburst.
Really, the Life Orb was to just get more U-turn and Boomburst damage off. My thought was that you didn't want to be hit by attacks as it is, so you may as well.
I combined these two and was greeted with success. Although I've changed the Mega-Mawhile to a Mega-Banette, the basic idea is the same. I used DaisyHead's set with Leftovers and max HP instead of max SpAtk. It makes a really good scout and gives you a lot of great information as to what the enemy team looks like. For example a common lead nowadays is Scarf Rotom-W. Using Protect I can scout out what move the opponent uses. Volt Switch I'll switch out to my Ground-type, Will-o-Wisp I'll generally switch to Espeon to reflect it, Trick I'll go to M-Bane, and Noivern can tank a Hydro Pump, smacking Rotom with a Draco or U-turning to get a teammate a safe switch in. Ferrothorn hates this set too. If its got a Rocky Helmet I'll know before clicking U-turn. I can use either U-turn on the first turn and then switch in Espeon to reflect the hazards Ferro tries to set up or I can just go straight for Taunt. I've tried using Life Orb; it nabs some OHKOs that are nifty, for exampled KO-ing Gengar with Draco Meteor, but I've found that Noivern's longevity is really hampered by the recoil, along hazards damage and possibly sandstorm. It may be viable to drop Taunt for Roost in order to remedy this, but I feel that Taunt has much more usefulness in Noivern's role. and that is scouting.
So I've been laddering in the 1700~2000 point range for a while with an offensive team that uses Choice Scarf Noivern as its revenge-killer, Mega Charizard X check, and Baton Pass team stop.
Noivern (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower / Focus Blast
- Switcheroo
The big things Scarf Noivern has over Scarf Latios are completely ignoring Subs, Flying STAB (coverage-wise, a lot better than Psychic), lack of Pursuit weakness, and lastly is unpredictability; not in the sense that its moves are diverse but Choice Scarf on Noivern never even crosses my opponent's mind as I don't think I've had a single Mega Charizard X switch out after I bring Noivern in on the Dragon Dance. But like I said before, Noivern can Switcheroo its Scarf onto Baton Pass Scolipede before it can pass since they run more bulk than speed so still Noivern out-speeds at +1; combine that with my Taunt Greninja or Mega Mawile and their Baton Pass chain is done for. And again, most don't switch out because no one uses Scarf Noivern.
Modest is of course for the power and Noivern has the speed to at least out-pace the Scarf positive nature Base 106 speed tier while falling just short of reaching Scarf Terrakion or Keldeo (both easy sets to check in this meta). Flamethrower vs Focus Blast is hitting Aegislash vs hitting Ttar/Heatran. Air Slash isn't bad in this meta since Flying STAB has such nice coverage against OU and the 30% flinch rate is a nice bonus.
I'm starting to prefer this set over Scarf Latios if only for Flying STAB but definitely weigh it against Latios before committing the set to a team as Modest Noivern is still a bit weaker than Timid Latios and lacks the Psyshock mix-up.
Noivern (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower / Focus Blast
- Switcheroo
The big things Scarf Noivern has over Scarf Latios are completely ignoring Subs, Flying STAB (coverage-wise, a lot better than Psychic), lack of Pursuit weakness, and lastly is unpredictability; not in the sense that its moves are diverse but Choice Scarf on Noivern never even crosses my opponent's mind as I don't think I've had a single Mega Charizard X switch out after I bring Noivern in on the Dragon Dance. But like I said before, Noivern can Switcheroo its Scarf onto Baton Pass Scolipede before it can pass since they run more bulk than speed so still Noivern out-speeds at +1; combine that with my Taunt Greninja or Mega Mawile and their Baton Pass chain is done for. And again, most don't switch out because no one uses Scarf Noivern.
Modest is of course for the power and Noivern has the speed to at least out-pace the Scarf positive nature Base 106 speed tier while falling just short of reaching Scarf Terrakion or Keldeo (both easy sets to check in this meta). Flamethrower vs Focus Blast is hitting Aegislash vs hitting Ttar/Heatran. Air Slash isn't bad in this meta since Flying STAB has such nice coverage against OU and the 30% flinch rate is a nice bonus.
I'm starting to prefer this set over Scarf Latios if only for Flying STAB but definitely weigh it against Latios before committing the set to a team as Modest Noivern is still a bit weaker than Timid Latios and lacks the Psyshock mix-up.
This is the Noivern set that I use.
Nature: Timid/Modest (I prefer Timid)
Ability: Infiltrator
Item: Life Orb
EV: 252SpAtk/252Spe/4HP
Moveset:
-Boomburst (Noivern's signature move)
-Hurricane (STAB)
-Dragon Pulse (STAB)
-Flamethrower (Good against Ice types)
All of these moves are Special Attacks, and with two STAB moves and one to take care of Dragon types, this gives Noivern some good coverage. Feel free to replace Boomburst with another move of your choice. I just like it because its attack power is so high, and its accuracy is 100% with no recoil.
Nature: Timid/Modest (I prefer Timid)
Ability: Infiltrator
Item: Life Orb
EV: 252SpAtk/252Spe/4HP
Moveset:
-Boomburst (Noivern's signature move)
-Hurricane (STAB)
-Dragon Pulse (STAB)
-Flamethrower (Good against Ice types)
All of these moves are Special Attacks, and with two STAB moves and one to take care of Dragon types, this gives Noivern some good coverage. Feel free to replace Boomburst with another move of your choice. I just like it because its attack power is so high, and its accuracy is 100% with no recoil.
Attachments
boomburst is stronger than hpsteel for all but carbink
Hidden power Steel is actually a great alternative to boomburst. Focus blast is also key, but its low accuracy leaves it unreliable.
I would have it
-Flamethrower
-HiddenPower Steel/Boomburst
-Hurricane
-Dragon Pulse
Focus Blast is not replaceable... at least not by HP Steel
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 385-454 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 193-228 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And HP steel is an awful choice almost nearly 100% of the time
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 145-171 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 124-148 (30.5 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 385-454 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 193-228 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And HP steel is an awful choice almost nearly 100% of the time
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 145-171 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Steel vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 124-148 (30.5 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
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