Not-Fully-Evolved 'mons in UU/NU

[GG Crono]

Certain NFE 'mons have strategy listings in the archives, like Chansey, Scyther and Pikachu, to name a few. But there are many others who may be viable. I've seen Dusclops get quite a bit of play on the lower tiers of Shoddybattle, and Rhydon has quite a bit of potential too. But there's probably others, and it's on this matter that I ponder.

What are the thoughts of the community on this matter? Have any of you experimented with this?

Myself, I was thinking of building an NU team utilizing Sneasel. The only one of Weavile's staple moves that it can't learn is Night Slash, and its attack and speed are very respectable.

 

[Stagnant]

Viable NFE's...

Rhydon
Munchlax
Dusclops
Magneton
Kadabra
Haunter
Magmar
Electabuzz
Sneasel

I've personally used.. wow. Everyone of them. They are not bad at all.. the only moot point about them is that they are all relatively frail (except Rhydon) but they have some great attributes to them.

If your looking at using some in UU I highly recommend Electabuzz, Magnton, Rhydon, or Kadabra. I don't know NU very well so god luck from there.

 

[petrie911]

you forgot Gligar. With the fastest SR in NU and good defenses, as well as BP shenanigans, it's a worthy addition to a team.

 

[monkymeet]

Clamperl is viable for TR teams with his jawbreaking 542 SpAtt. Mixed with Rain and he is an amazing late game sweeper.

Pikachu is also somewhat useable, but his fragility makes it difficult.

 

[Chinese Dood]

There's also Trapinch being the Trick Room version of Dugtrio.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^Ur going to waste a perfectly good trick room set up on trapinch? :S

Kadabra is the fastest Double-Screen user in NU. :D

In NU Poliwhirl also can make use of water absorb, 90 base speed and Salac-Belly Drum. :P It's faster than Poliwrath so it wouldn't be ridiculous to even use it in UU.

Also while he's slow with decidedly mediocre defenses, Machoke does get base 100 attack and No Guard Dynamic Punch . . .

Piloswine and Gabite both have rather "meh" base stats, but both have sufficiently high base attack and carry on their counterparts terrific STAB types (Gabite's only use looks to be in scarf-outrage though . . .). Piloswine in particular has fair defensive stats (20 base special defense behind azumarril), Stealth Rock and maintains its hail/sand immunity (if you care).

Speaking of Stealth Rock, none of the Water/Ground types in UU/NU get Stealth Rock, except Marshstomp. Even if he is basically 30 base HP points weaker than Whiscash. :S

 

[The Business Man]

^Ur going to waste a perfectly good trick room set up on trapinch? :S

I think they might have meant the same function as Dugtrio (trapper, revenge killer, etc.) but used on a NU or UU Trick Room team. Unless you meant there are better thing to use Trick Room with, then this would be pointless.. |=B

I have personally used Magneton to some success. A good partner to many pokemon with his good resistances. Plus, it was OU during the RSE days so it can obviously compete at a high level of play. I actually consider it to be high(ish) UU tier.

 

[Chou Toshio]

They said Trick Room, so I assume that means that they want to use it with Trick Room.

Here's the thing about trick room:

-Only a few pokemon can learn it
-There's no way to extend it
-It only lasts for 5 turns.

That means if you are going to set up trick room for a pokemon that doesn't learn trick room (like trapinch), you have to bring in a pokemon that learns it, set it up, and then switch out to Trapinch, leaving a measely 3 turns to attack under trick room. If you're going to go all that way just to get the speed advantage for just 3 turns, you better do something worthwhile with it. Trapinch's base 100 attack is not it, especially as a trapper with only 1 stab, ground. It can pick off one pokemon at a time, but it's not going on a massive sweep with its only slightly above average attack and all the flying/levitate/grass pokes around. Moreover it doesn't even have the defenses to switch in properly. :/

If you are going to use trick room, you are best using off something that has massive offensive capacities, like clamperl or marowak. Preferably with good defenses to make switching into it easy (like Rhyperior in OU), because if it doesn't have the defenses it means resorting to suicide moves like Explosion, which means your sweeper has got to be even more awesome to make all that set up worthwhile (like aforementioned clamperl/marowak I guess).

Pokemon who learn trick room are a different story since they can just keep setting it up again for an extra 4 turns of "speed boost." Dusknoir/dusclops can abuse trick room without having to have a massive attack stat because they'll always have a source of more trick room turns.

When you're talking about trick room with a pokemon who doesn't learn it though, you're pretty much regulated to just pokes with massive sweeping capacities.

 

[Chinese Dood]

Yeah, when I said "TR version of Dugtrio" I meant revenge trapper only, definitely not a sweeper (since nobody really use Dugtrio for sweeping either). I agree that the most effective TR sweepers are the ones with massive offensive capacities, but I think that a TR revenge trapper is still viable for getting rid of threats to open up the sweep for actual TR sweepers.

I.e. I try to start a clamperl TR sweep, only to be walled by a Chansey or Lanturn (assuming Clamperl is running HP Electric) or something like that. If I can get Trapinch in on a Thunderwave/Thunderbolt/Toxic/Seismic Toss and get rid of that threat, I can then set up TR again for a clean sweep, whereas if I just brought in another physical TR sweeper, then Chansey/Lanturn/whatever it may be can just switch to come back in. Of course this is situational (Lanturn might not use T-bolt, etc.), but at least it's viable in some cases.

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

I feel that Snover and Hippopotas are fairly useful, if only for their weather-changing abilities.

 

[adman2]

Clamperl is viable for TR teams with his jawbreaking 542 SpAtt. Mixed with Rain and he is an amazing late game sweeper.

Pikachu is also somewhat useable, but his fragility makes it difficult.

I've had experience with an OU Rain team, so I'll have to point out the serious flaws in your strategy. As you probably know, Rain teams benefit mainly from Swift Swim, with Pokemon such as Kingdra, Kabutops, Floatzel, Ludicolo, and Qwilfish. Trick Room therefore proves to be the greatest threat to a Rain team, even more so than Sand, so the strategy has a conflict of interests. You have to set up both conditions and then get Clamperl in, which is probably not worth the risk.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Yeah, infact, Magneton, Dusclops, Rhydon and Porygon 2 were all OU in Advance! I was extremely shocked when they evolved if I'm completely honest.

So yes, I do think they're a bit underestimated sometimes. I mean, if Blissey and Magnezone didn't exist, I reckon Chansey and Magneton would've been OU in even this generation. Dusclops may've scraped in at the beginning of the DP era, before Rotom-A came along, and when people were still in the stall-Advance-style mindset of things (check the Shoddy statistics from 2006).

 

[Diana]

I looked through this thread and I'm probably repeating some things but I think they deserve to be repeated.

Chansey in UU is obviously right up there. It's basically a mini-blissey which is really stuck with Seismic Toss, so it walls nicely in UU.

Porygon2.. What can I say? I use it as a lead some in UU myself, it's quite good at the job. It can recover to stay alive more, gets Discharge and Ice Beam off a good Special Attack, and Magic Coat is good when it starts to fire status back at the user. It doesn't bounce back Taunt but it's still able to attack so it's not too much of an issue. Also nice for Trick Room teams.

Rhydon making NU really brings a monster to that tier, it hits hard in UU, but in NU, where there are some powerful rock-weak Pokemon, Rhydon is deadly. It gets Rock Polish, Swords Dance, STAB on Rock and Ground, and a high attack stat. Sure, it loses to special moves and has a ton of weaknesses but that doesn't change its upside.

Magneton is actually a great steel trapper for the lower tiers. It's faster than Magnezone is in OU, so it'll outspeed and Magnet Rise on more. It also has a surprising special attack stat to run off of as well, so it can rise up and revenge things like Aggron and Probopass.

Piloswine seemed like nothing to me at first. Then I tried using it in hail like HeysUp did, and I was surprised. It works like Mamoswine in OU, it's not like we're breaking new ground here, but down in NU, it actually packs a punch and has decent survivability thanks to the HP stat.

Last I'm bringing up is Munchlax. I noticed in the NU thread that people were talking about Curse Munchlax being used every once in a while over Lickilicky due to the higher Special Defense, and I used it a couple times, and it really works. After a Curse it'll pound things as well as most evolved things, while taking hits from both ends quite effectively. It's amazing to mention a baby Pokemon in here, I know, but ignore the label and notice the surprisingly good Pokemon in Snorlax's huge shadow.

I know I didn't bring up Dusclops and Trapinch and all, but I need more experience with them before I comment on those.

 

[Arcticblast]

^Ur going to waste a perfectly good trick room set up on trapinch? :S

Trapinch has base 100 attack, 20 higher than Dugtrio.

 

[Deschain]

Trapinch has base 100 attack, 20 higher than Dugtrio.

woah, i'm sigged! D: xD


and to contribute to the thread, Rhydon has been working pretty well for me in UU. coupled with things that laugh at Surf and Grass, he's a real bear to take down, and even with the defensive set i run, he puts the hurt on almost everything.

 

[monkymeet]

I've had experience with an OU Rain team, so I'll have to point out the serious flaws in your strategy. As you probably know, Rain teams benefit mainly from Swift Swim, with Pokemon such as Kingdra, Kabutops, Floatzel, Ludicolo, and Qwilfish. Trick Room therefore proves to be the greatest threat to a Rain team, even more so than Sand, so the strategy has a conflict of interests. You have to set up both conditions and then get Clamperl in, which is probably not worth the risk.

Rain isn't even necessary with that SpA, it's just a nice icing on top of the cake. Azumarill works well under Rain and TR, along with Octillery as a mixed sweeper. Both are also slow enough to take advantage of TR. The Slowking/Slowbro duo can also set up TR and receive boosted surfs. It's a different type of Rain Team.

As for getting Clamperl in, it's not difficult. Rain Dance on turn 1 (with Damp Rock), Trick Room on the second, Explode, Memento, or fast (now a slower) U-turn.

A side advantage of TR Rain Dance teams is the resistance to Bullet Punch, but I'd still stick with using Rain teams in UU rather than OU.

 

[Khyl]

Gligar is pretty great in both UU and NU. I was actually surprised when I found out he was NU. Gligar makes a great physical wall or baton passer in both enviornments. I guess he's not used more just because of his lackluster attack.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Trapinch has base 100 attack, 20 higher than Dugtrio.

What does that have to do with anything? I'd never bother setting up support for Dugtrio either. We were simply talking about Trapinch in the context of whether it's worth Trick Room support or not.

 

[Ash Borer]

look, I think what he meant is that trapinch is like dugtrio, just, because it has no speed its a "trick room version", not meaning it is only use able in trick room.

 

[MagicMaster87]

look, I think what he meant is that trapinch is like dugtrio, just, because it has no speed its a "trick room version", not meaning it is only use able in trick room.

I haven't used Trapinch myself, but I've faced a few in battles, and the low Speed really does hurt it when it dies to pretty much any priority attack in the game, let alone what can kill it when not under Trick Room...

 

[Legacy Raider]

Trapinch is perfectly usable in UU. It is a good Pokemon to pair up with Yanmega or Mismagius, as it can single handedly remove Chansey and Registeel from the game. For Chansey, it can come in on its Thunder Wave immunity, or if you run max HP and Leftovers, you can get it to not be 2HKOed by Seismic Toss after SR, letting you get the 2HKO back. Trapinch has to be a bit more careful with Registeel, as Iron Head has a small chance to 2HKO a max HP Trapinch, but it can take it out or at least weaken it by revenge killing. Pity its uses beyond that are very few and far between, and that Magneton and Probopass both remove Registeel with more efficiency, but Trapinch can be helpful as a Chansey counter for a lot of teams.

I might try out a team with 5 special sweepers + Trapinch, just to see how it does. Yanmega, Shaymin, LO Milotic, Scarf Typhlosion, Manectric + Trapinch sounds like a good starting point :).

 

[Chou Toshio]

I'm with Legacy Rider-- Trapinch is a usable pokemon as a trapper to get rid of specific targets (like chansey).

I just don't see wasting a trick room turns to use it. :/ Especially when I'd probably want to fit Marowak into my team.

 

[brutal satyr]

I'd like to mention
-seadra . it has pretty decent stats and a decent movepool + sniper
-2nd forms of the starters : at least some of them. they all have pretty decent stats and have acces to some usefull moves .
-misdreavus . i've tested it out and it works pretty decent .
-onix . suicide lead nothing else said . it depends what the other lead is as its still rather vague in nu

tahts all i guess

 

[Stagnant]

I've played around with Trapinch for quite some time and I must say that he is very difficult to use at times. One of the best combo's I've found with Trapinch is Articuno with Tailwind... yes Tailwind. As it boosts Pinch's horrid speed faster than registeel something that a 252+ Spe nature trapinch fails to do. What makes it so great is that Articuno is magnificent bait for Registeel. So Articuno sets up tailwind... U-Turn's out in trapinch for the KO. Tail Wind also works great for Mixed Blaziken who no longer worries about being outspeed for a turn or two.

 

[topah]

is phione considered NU or NU and NFE?
oh but i think dragonair is a good NFE pokemon very wide moveset + decent stats