Gen 3 np: ADV Suspect Testing - Lean on Me

gene

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this problem doesn't exist and only exist in the mind of ban happy non serious players who never played during the original era.
really? who the fuck are you to judge?

such an abysmal post
 
Speaking of the "original era" for ADV, am I the only one who isn't deeply confused about how AJC managed to avoid a permban in those days?

Or even now, frankly?
 

zfs

Everything old is new again
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To echo earlier sentiments/the PR thread, if anything is banned, I'd hope it would be Ingrain Smeargle.

That way you can still use as many BP'ers are you want. Hell, you can still use Smeargle as a trapper (Spore/Spider Web/BP/Sub). It's just that Ingrain completely nukes the most viable BP team counter (p-hazing). I doubt any of the good players here from the ADV era have ever had significant problems with a full BP team that didn't have Ingrain Smeargle.
 
It's impossible to realize whether BP is broken or not, because most teams on the ladder are currently VERY anti-BP, which they wouldn't be if the suspect test wasn't ongoing. I just faced a guy who had Perish Song Celebi AND Roar Salamence on the same team - he most likely wouldn't be carrying both of these pokes had it not been for the test. Another player had both Taunt/Whirlwind max speed Skarmory and Roar Raikou. I doubt they would use the same teams if BP wasn't being tested. We cannot determine how broken BP is in the ADV metagame, since during this suspect test people change their teams to adjust to a different metagame, a BP-centric one.

I doubt i explained this well enough, but i hope i got my point across.
 
Wait a second...if you can't decide if BP is broken because everything is anti-BP, then wouldn't that just be a stronger argument to ban it? I know the term 'overcentralization' is thrown around too much...but if everything is BP-centric, that would be a definite indication of it being broken.
 
but not everything is anti-bp. You only need a few things on your team to actually match up against BP. people who are running entirely anti-bp teams (and losing) aren't particularly good tbh... (especially considering how bad most of the people running BP teams are!). Seriously, I have been laddering for two days. I am already ranked 6th (was a breeze ~_~) and I've only lost twice. Neither loss was to a BP team. I've encountered like 6 or 7 BP teams and I've had no problems, simply because I have a decent amount of offense and a phazer on all my teams. Roar Zapdos really gives BP teams a hard time, and it works good with spikes is just a good set overall. It isn't that hard to make things that work against BP teams work WITH your team. The only time I've actually seen a BP team win was Jules vs. a team that was utterly unprepared for BP. And just before that he had lost to someone who, honestly, didn't seem very good at all :x But the dude had Skarm to phaze and a bunch of random offense-oriented mons on his team like Sceptile, and he wore out the BP team before it had a chance to get anything going. I think many of you are overestimating BP teams a bit, as well as the competence of the people who are using them. (not Jules, that guy is pretty competent.)
 
^We faced earlier today and you had Roar Zapdos, WW Skarmory, and Screech Flygon lol. No wonder you can deal with BP.

@shmashlloyd: you didn't get my point.
 
Those were two different teams though lol. I use ww skarmory on most teams. I just happened to have screech flygon on that team (it's not for BP) and i just happened to have Roar zapdos on that other team (it just works well for the team, since i have spikes and I don't really need hp grass for swampert). It's not like I am taking drastic measures to deal with BP, I just know how to beat it with what I have... Like I said, I've only lost twice, and most of the teams I've played were NOT BP TEAMS. I'm not prepared for BP, I'm prepared for anything (or I'm trying to be, anyway.) Anyone can do the same. It doesn't take that much effort...

edit: by "it's not for BP" I mean, I was using the same set before this whole suspect test even came to be. The team is really old.
 
Oh, was that you? Well, alrighty then. I wasn't paying much attention to the match, I was just assuming based on the pokemon. It's not a particularly bold assumption if you consider some of the people you encounter on the ladder... The point is, it doesn't really take that much to beat BP. You don't need to use a bog standard team and stuff it with anti-BP nonsense AND get lucky to beat a BP team, as some dudes are claiming.

and i was by no means hating on your team, sire.
 
Wait a second...if you can't decide if BP is broken because everything is anti-BP, then wouldn't that just be a stronger argument to ban it? I know the term 'overcentralization' is thrown around too much...but if everything is BP-centric, that would be a definite indication of it being broken.
No, because the only reason there's so much anti Baton Pass is because Baton Pass is being pushed into a central position here. People want to know whether Baton Pass is really that broken and it becomes the most common team choice, which in turn makes anti BPers more viable than they usually would be. I don't think there'd be anywhere near this much attention for BP counters in people's teams if nobody ever lighted this fire.

Also, as annoying as AJC is, this is trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I love making fun of him as much as the next guy but sometimes he can be right!
 
No, because the only reason there's so much anti Baton Pass is because Baton Pass is being pushed into a central position here. People want to know whether Baton Pass is really that broken and it becomes the most common team choice, which in turn makes anti BPers more viable than they usually would be. I don't think there'd be anywhere near this much attention for BP counters in people's teams if nobody ever lighted this fire.

Also, as annoying as AJC is, this is trying to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I love making fun of him as much as the next guy but sometimes he can be right!
WHAT IMPOSSIBLE

And I see your point now. But what's the point of the test if we can't figure out what we're testing is broken or not in a normal meta? Whether it
s broken or not in a meta where everyone prepares for it isn't helping us.
 
Hey, I made a vast series of really shitty posts a few years ago. Anyway I was just curiously browsing this site again for the first time in a while and was surprised to see suspect testing in ADV, which was the time I most actively played <3 Netbattle etc

So I read the arguments in the policy review section and honestly don't remember there ever being a fuss about baton pass at the time. Sure you'd occassionally get "no Bp teams" in their netbattle info but nowhere near as much as you'd see "no SkarmBliss!!" and cannot imagine the metagame having changed much, if at all, since then to make BP teams the guarenteed win unless "obscure" counters are used. This post in particular I would like to address:

Baton Pass is extremely different. RSE Baton Pass makes you almost impossible to beat without any prediction, if your opponent doesn't fulfill all of these conditions:

a) Have Whirlwind (read: not Roar, Mr Mime says no).
b) Have something to outspeed and OHKO Smeargle.
c) Have perfect prediction.
d) Have something that can OHKO/Taunt Umbreon.
e) Have luck.
a) I remember when it was standard to have a phazer or hazer on every team and that has use outside of baton pass teams. Skarmory was on a high proportion of competitive teams but it wasn't the only option. Weezing was used as a phycial wall too and provided haze. Finally I may simply be remembering incorrectly but I don't recall Mr. Mime being a staple member of a baton pass team, though I may be wrong.

b) You mean that pokémon with 55/35/45 defences and 75 speed?

c) Perfect is overstating it as is saying you need little to use the baton pass team. Getting in smeargle and using umbreon effectively was not the cake walk you imply especially with how the metagame was dominated by bulky hard hitters like suicune, raikou, tyranitar, salamence and gyarados. Umbreon suffered from a subpar healing move and will get worn down, and smeargle needed a sub to get in which won't always be possible. Its been a while so there are probably glaring problems with both these examples, still I do not remember BP teams to be the cheap strat some people are insisting.

d) Taunt was a lot less common in ADV than it was at the beginning of DP but it was not totally absent, standard move on Umbreon and you'd see the occassional gyarados carrying it. Also I'm not sure if they OHKO umbreon but afaik heracross, breloom and medicham could. Also my experience from using umbreon was it easy to wear down due to not many useful resistances and sub par healing moves, limiting its ability to play its wobbu like strategy, however I'm not so sure that experience is all that relevent to BP chain Umbreon.

e) ADV sure seemed a lot less luck reliant than DP.

My old 2 cents, probably flawed due to my lack of ability to theorycraft since I don't remember some specifics.

OT: What happened to firebot? At least trou is still on top form. Actually don't bother answering, off I go to probably never return, and nothing of value was lost to you.
 
I wasn't a top player in advance but I was decent and played in a good number of tournaments. I never remember a top player (except VIL) using a Baton Pass in a major tournament. I think there was definitely a strong soft ban on using BP teams. If a goal of the ADV tours is to capture how ADV was actually played I think BP should be banned.

Joining the suspect test now regardless.
 

Kevin Garrett

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I have played quite a bit on ladder and seen Baton Pass around. I have beaten it many more times than it has beaten me. It certainly isn't broken, but I think it does take away from the quality of the game. You can have some nice checks and still phaze Smeargle in and manage to have just enough coverage to get their boosts started.

Smeargle + Ingrain ban would be the only thing I would really sign off on.
 

Moo

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I agree with KG. Baton Pass is easily beaten, but you do need to have a few things on your team to counter it.

Also, I want to bring up another problem. The suspect test ends at 11:59 EST, leaving people on GMT time at a disadvantage. Because it is based on ranking now and not points, we can easily be knocked just out of the voting range right before it ends, because we cant stay up till 4 in the morning.

Thoughts?
 

Destiny Warrior

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Technically, Mooo, no matter what timezone you fix deadline to be, there will be some people who get screwed over by it under the new system.
 
I've faced a bunch of BP teams, and I find them quite annoying, but not banworthy. It just take a bit of thinking to beat them. As KG said, I find it annoying when I phaze Smeargle in cause he outspeeds Skarm and gets his Ingrain in. I don't want to fully ban BP, but I will support banning Smeargle + Ingrain to limit what BP can do.
 

Zephyr

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I two have found Baton Pass lackluster in my experience, though working off of what Synre previously said, it could actually be the quality of the players reflecting it, and I've just yet to play good people using it? I'll keep going.
 
From the last time I posted, I've noticed Ingrain is what truly makes BP broken. I would consider just resorting to an Ingrain ban on Smeargle(Sk's Idea) because it makes BP nearly unuseable. It also discourages the use of full BP teams, as a result of the team matchup dependency.
 
Exactly ENZ0, seeing as Ingrain is the only thing really making up BP broken that atm should be the only thing that really is banned. if you guys want my opinion lol. Altho, i'm just repeating ENZ0 and Sk really.
 
Battle between Heysup [ADV] and Lemuria started!

Tier: OU Gen 3
Variation: +12, -19
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause

Lemuria sent out Ninjask!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Metagross!

Start of turn 1
Heysup [ADV] called Metagross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Swampert's Accuracy fell!

Swampert used Roar!
The attack of Swampert missed!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Smeargle!

Swampert used Roar!
The foe's Celebi was dragged out!

Start of turn 4
Heysup [ADV] called Swampert back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Celebi used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Celebi back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Swampert's Accuracy fell!

Swampert used Roar!
The foe's Smeargle was dragged out!

Start of turn 7
Heysup [ADV] called Swampert back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Smeargle used Ingrain!
The foe's Smeargle planted its roots!

Start of turn 8
The foe's Smeargle used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Smeargle back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Heracross used Sleep Talk!
But it failed!

Start of turn 9
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 10
Magneton used Toxic!
The attack of Magneton missed!

The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Heysup [ADV]: ..
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Umbreon!

Start of turn 11
Heysup [ADV] called Magneton back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Umbreon used Substitute!
The foe's Umbreon made a substitute!

The foe's Umbreon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Umbreon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12
Heracross used Brick Break!
It's super effective!
The foe's Umbreon's substitute faded!

The foe's Umbreon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Umbreon back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Metagross!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Gareth Brown is watching the battle.

Start of turn 14
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Metagross's Clear Body prevented its stats from being lowered!

Metagross used Meteor Mash!
The attack of Metagross missed!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lemuria: oh yeah

Start of turn 15
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Metagross used Meteor Mash!
The attack of Metagross missed!

Start of turn 16
The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Metagross used Explosion!
Heysup [ADV]: excellent
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!
Metagross fainted!

Heysup [ADV]: Broken team and hax
Heysup [ADV]: this is possible\
Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

Start of turn 17
The foe's Vaporeon used Substitute!
The foe's Vaporeon made a substitute!

Magneton used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!

The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Celebi!

Magneton used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Celebi lost 20% of its health!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Magneton used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi lost 26% of its health!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 20
Heysup [ADV] called Magneton back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 21
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Heysup [ADV]: yea

Start of turn 22
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 23
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 24
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 25
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Heysup [ADV]: is this how you get your points?

Start of turn 26
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 27
The foe's Celebi used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Celebi back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 28
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Tyranitar!

Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Ninjask is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 29
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Tyranitar used Rock Slide!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 30
The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Tyranitar used Earthquake!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 31
The foe's Vaporeon used Substitute!
The foe's Vaporeon made a substitute!

Tyranitar used Dragon Dance!
Tyranitar's Attack rose!
Tyranitar's Speed rose!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 32
The foe's Vaporeon used Surf!
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 352 HP! (100% of its health)
Tyranitar fainted!

Heysup [ADV]: fucking amazing.
Heysup [ADV] sent out Salamence!

The foe's Vaporeon's substitute suppressed Salamence's Intimidate!
The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Salamence is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Salamence restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 33
The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Zapdos!

The foe's Zapdos is exerting its Pressure!

Salamence used Dragon Dance!
Salamence's Attack rose!
Salamence's Speed rose!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Salamence is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!
Salamence restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 34
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
Salamence lost 371 HP! (100% of its health)
Salamence fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 35
The foe's Zapdos used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
Swampert lost 404 HP! (100% of its health)
Swampert fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!
Kilolo is watching the battle.
Lemuria: would you like the win good sir?
Heysup [ADV]: no
Heysup [ADV]: i would just like the log
Lemuria: -___-

Start of turn 36
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
Magneton lost 259 HP! (100% of its health)
Magneton fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Heracross is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 37
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
Heracross lost 307 HP! (93% of its health)
Heracross fainted!

Lemuria won the battle!
Lemuria: gg


I shouldn't lose to a guy who sand attacks Metagross because of a prediction that I was almost deemed to not win.

(50% to guess whether he spores or ingrains, then Sleep talk needs to not pick Rock Slide, and then if it picks Megahorn, it needs to hit.)

Ingrain is annoying, but really why do all teams need to carry something with Roar?
 

Destiny Warrior

also known as Darkwing_Duck
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Battle between Heysup [ADV] and Lemuria started!

Tier: OU Gen 3
Variation: +12, -19
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause

Lemuria sent out Ninjask!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Metagross!

Start of turn 1
Heysup [ADV] called Metagross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Swampert's Accuracy fell!

Swampert used Roar!
The attack of Swampert missed!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Smeargle!

Swampert used Roar!
The foe's Celebi was dragged out!

Start of turn 4
Heysup [ADV] called Swampert back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Celebi used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Celebi back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Swampert's Accuracy fell!

Swampert used Roar!
The foe's Smeargle was dragged out!

Start of turn 7
Heysup [ADV] called Swampert back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Smeargle used Ingrain!
The foe's Smeargle planted its roots!

Start of turn 8
The foe's Smeargle used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Smeargle back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Heracross used Sleep Talk!
But it failed!

Start of turn 9
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 10
Magneton used Toxic!
The attack of Magneton missed!

The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Heysup [ADV]: ..
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Umbreon!

Start of turn 11
Heysup [ADV] called Magneton back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Umbreon used Substitute!
The foe's Umbreon made a substitute!

The foe's Umbreon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Umbreon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12
Heracross used Brick Break!
It's super effective!
The foe's Umbreon's substitute faded!

The foe's Umbreon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Umbreon back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Metagross!

The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Gareth Brown is watching the battle.

Start of turn 14
The foe's Ninjask used Sand-Attack!
Metagross's Clear Body prevented its stats from being lowered!

Metagross used Meteor Mash!
The attack of Metagross missed!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Lemuria: oh yeah

Start of turn 15
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Metagross used Meteor Mash!
The attack of Metagross missed!

Start of turn 16
The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Metagross used Explosion!
Heysup [ADV]: excellent
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!
Metagross fainted!

Heysup [ADV]: Broken team and hax
Heysup [ADV]: this is possible\
Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

Start of turn 17
The foe's Vaporeon used Substitute!
The foe's Vaporeon made a substitute!

Magneton used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!

The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Celebi!

Magneton used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Celebi lost 20% of its health!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Magneton used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi lost 26% of its health!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 20
Heysup [ADV] called Magneton back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 21
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Heysup [ADV]: yea

Start of turn 22
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 23
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 24
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 25
The foe's Celebi used Calm Mind!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Celebi's Sp. Def. rose!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Heysup [ADV]: is this how you get your points?

Start of turn 26
The foe's Celebi used Substitute!
The foe's Celebi made a substitute!

Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective!
The foe's Celebi's substitute faded!

The foe's Celebi absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Celebi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 27
The foe's Celebi used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Celebi back!
Lemuria sent out Ninjask!

Heracross used Megahorn!
The attack of Heracross missed!

The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 28
Heysup [ADV] called Heracross back!
Heysup [ADV] sent out Tyranitar!

Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The foe's Ninjask used Substitute!
The foe's Ninjask made a substitute!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Ninjask is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Ninjask absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Ninjask's Speed rose!
The foe's Ninjask restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 29
The foe's Ninjask used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Ninjask back!
Lemuria sent out Vaporeon!

Tyranitar used Rock Slide!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute took the damage!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 30
The foe's Vaporeon used Acid Armor!
The foe's Vaporeon's Defense sharply rose!

Tyranitar used Earthquake!
The foe's Vaporeon's substitute faded!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 31
The foe's Vaporeon used Substitute!
The foe's Vaporeon made a substitute!

Tyranitar used Dragon Dance!
Tyranitar's Attack rose!
Tyranitar's Speed rose!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 32
The foe's Vaporeon used Surf!
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 352 HP! (100% of its health)
Tyranitar fainted!

Heysup [ADV]: fucking amazing.
Heysup [ADV] sent out Salamence!

The foe's Vaporeon's substitute suppressed Salamence's Intimidate!
The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Vaporeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Salamence is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Vaporeon absorbed nutrients with its roots!
The foe's Vaporeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Salamence restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 33
The foe's Vaporeon used Baton Pass!
Lemuria called Vaporeon back!
Lemuria sent out Zapdos!

The foe's Zapdos is exerting its Pressure!

Salamence used Dragon Dance!
Salamence's Attack rose!
Salamence's Speed rose!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Salamence is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!
Salamence restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 34
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
Salamence lost 371 HP! (100% of its health)
Salamence fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Swampert!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 35
The foe's Zapdos used Hidden Power!
It's super effective!
Swampert lost 404 HP! (100% of its health)
Swampert fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Magneton!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!
Kilolo is watching the battle.
Lemuria: would you like the win good sir?
Heysup [ADV]: no
Heysup [ADV]: i would just like the log
Lemuria: -___-

Start of turn 36
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
It's not very effective...
Magneton lost 259 HP! (100% of its health)
Magneton fainted!

Heysup [ADV] sent out Heracross!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Zapdos is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Heracross is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Zapdos absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 37
The foe's Zapdos used Thunderbolt!
Heracross lost 307 HP! (93% of its health)
Heracross fainted!

Lemuria won the battle!
Lemuria: gg


I shouldn't lose to a guy who sand attacks Metagross because of a prediction that I was almost deemed to not win.

(50% to guess whether he spores or ingrains, then Sleep talk needs to not pick Rock Slide, and then if it picks Megahorn, it needs to hit.)

Ingrain is annoying, but really why do all teams need to carry something with Roar?
Well, don't blame BP if your attacks keep missing :P

Its a bit like asking, "why should all teams need a gliscor/skarmory/hippowdon/roobushin/azumarill(far smaller than the userbase of Roar/WW)" in gen 5. Its just one of the things you need to pack for a dominating strategy. In my experience, BP is kind of hard to beat once it gets on a roll, but if you can cut it to size quickly, it gets much easier to deal with.
 
Smeargle get owned by Sleep Talk Heracross/Hariyama/Ursaring/Machamp. Or, infact, most offensive sleep talkers in general, but those ones are Guts abusers. The thing is, the only one of those you'll likely use is Heracross, although there are some very good points to using the others- mainly Hariyama, as it can WW.
 

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