np Doubles OU Stage 1.5 - Leavin on a Jet Plane

[13ulbasaur]

I still want to see the replay of him getting 6-0d by Thundurus.

I found it. Surprising how he doesn't use a supposed HUGE piece of evidence of Thundy being OP and 6-0ing him in his post huh? Maybe there's a reason for that. (i havent watched it yet i can't be bothered dissecting it)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-212521141


edit: hahaha holy shoot that paralysis is amazing

the team just happened to be thundy weak.

 

[Zeldamon Master519]

I still want to see the replay of him getting 6-0d by Thundurus.

I found it. Surprising how he doesn't use a supposed HUGE piece of evidence of Thundy being OP and 6-0ing him in his post huh? Maybe there's a reason for that. (i havent watch

Good point. For one, he fails to include replay, and secondly, one replay means nothing even if he did post it.

 

[xzern]

so what do you guys think about weather in this meta? I've been experimenting with weather teams and it's actually a really fun playstyle, here's my take on how weather teams are doing right now:

Rain

Rain is arguably the best and most viable weather effect right now. we got mega swampert, which makes for a decent rain sweeper, but other megas work really well too. Mega scizor can live a lot of common fire-type attacks under rain and in the same turn set up SD for some creamy bullet punches. Rain also has a bunch of useful offensive threats at its disposal, from ludicolo to keldeo.

carry on my wayward Sun

Sun faced a big impact in viability with the prominence of Mega Diancie and its power to basically tear apart any fire-type, but it's still good. Mega Charizard-y doubles as the team's sun setter and as a good offensive presence for your own team. What's also cool about sun is that you get chlorophyll venusaur, aka the fastest sleep inducer in the tier when under sun. However, sun teams dont get as many options as rain for roles, and you're basically forced to run the same mega every time, char y.

Sand & Hail

The residual damage from both of these weather effects are cool to break sashes, but neither of them have good or reliable abusers of the effects. Hail is literally just a gimmick and the only viable sand-setter is really bad in this meta. sand has excadrill, but that's honestly just about it. These effects dont even boost the power of any moves, which means that they do not make for good bases of offensive weather teams. (and its not like youre running defensive weather teams either) (i hope not, at least.)

What do you guys think? Did I miss anything? Have you guys had any success with weather?

 

[Hashtag]

I would say scizor mega is a really bad choice in this meta. if you are running a rain team and want a steel type as your mega, there are so many better choices.

• mawile also has priority and hits harder, it has intimidate before evolving.
• Metagross has much better speed, with great bulk, and a better type as its secondary STAB move. it can run bullet punch, but usually opts for a move like iron head. Notably it lacks swords dance, which scizor has access to

okay maybe there are only a couple better choices, but i think they outclass it pretty cleanly

Otherwise i would say your post was on-point. i think that rain is an amazing playstyle right now (second only to maybe kangaskhan offense, but ofc) Personally, i'm not a big sun user, but i have seen people have a lot of success with it. One of my favorite things about sun is your mons can't get frozen when the sun is up, because fuck the freeze status as a whole. :^)

 

[Stratos]

Rain

Rain is arguably the best and most viable weather effect right now. we got mega swampert, which makes for a decent rain sweeper, but other megas work really well too. Mega scizor can live a lot of common fire-type attacks under rain and in the same turn set up SD for some creamy bullet punches. Rain also has a bunch of useful offensive threats at its disposal, from ludicolo to keldeo.

carry on my wayward Sun

Sun faced a big impact in viability with the prominence of Mega Diancie and its power to basically tear apart any fire-type, but it's still good. Mega Charizard-y doubles as the team's sun setter and as a good offensive presence for your own team. What's also cool about sun is that you get chlorophyll venusaur, aka the fastest sleep inducer in the tier when under sun. However, sun teams dont get as many options as rain for roles, and you're basically forced to run the same mega every time, char y.

this post is a bed of lies. Sun is way better so far in ORAS than rain. Basically everything here is wrong, so i'm just going to address it point by point.

• Mega swampert isn't a particularly effective rain sweeper because it complements politoed terribly and honestly isn't even a particularly scary Pokemon unless you're running a weird team. It's donked by Rotom-W and Dragons, slowed by intimidate, and frankly ground/water isn't very unwallable coverage. Mega Swampert is a good Pokemon, for sure, but it doesn't make up for rain's shortcomings.
  
• Using politoed is a shortcoming, don't lie to yourself, it's a wallflower which a lot of things get to totally walk all over, most importantly Kangaskhan.
• Rain teams really suffer from being super frail and having no switchins to offensive threats while at the same time being unable to do enough damage to compensate for it. Part of the problem comes from Ludi being frail as hell, but if you use Pert to fix that, you have to deal with the weaknesses you just opened up to a lot of pokes by not being able to use a Mega Steel.
• Speaking of Mega Steel, Scizor's pretty much suck-ass in an environment rampant with Keldeo, Thundurus, Charizard, Landorus, and Aegislash like this one is. In addition, it can't switch into Diamond Storms easily, which is something you want your Steel to be able to do. This forces you into using Mawile, but that opens up weaknesses to Grasses, especially MVenu and Ferrothorn.

I'm not saying there's no viable rain team in the meta because even as i wrote out that list of flaws i began to picture a rain team which could handle most of them, but I'm saying that if there is one, there's probably ONLY one, maybe with a few slight variants. The only benefit to Rain i see is that it's naturally strong vs Diancie.

Sun, on the other hand, is alive and well in ORAS. Just look at SPL and count the number of Rain team vs the number of Sun teams. Literally the only thing more restricting when it comes to using Sun is that you're forced to use Mega Zard y, there's a ton of options for the other slots, as opposed to rain which is super limited.

• Not much changed between dealing with terrak/lando and dealing with diancie for sun, except now you can't use Hitmontop to stop rock slides, but you shouldn't have been doing that in the first place because it sucks ass. If anything, sun dealt with the transition to ORAS better than non-weather because Venu is already a really good Diancie check.
• Charizard doesn't have to pair with Venu or anything else in particular because it's actually a good standalone Pokemon unlike Politoed/Ludicolo/Mega Pert/etc., so there's a super wide variety of ZardY teams you can build.
• sun also tends to have a good matchup vs rain oLo get fukt (unless it's fucking goth trap rain Laga you suck dong)

tl;dr: sun is doing pretty well so far in the meta, rain not so much

 

[qwerts]

Just out of curiosity is there a particular reason swagger is still around in doubles?

Stratos edit: yeah, we answer this question like once a week, if you're going to make an argument to ban it at least don't be a passive aggressive turd about it

Me edit: I don't really want it banned just wondering why it isn't :L

 

[shaian]

Just out of curiosity is there a particular reason swagger is still around in doubles?

already saw the edit, but figured i might as well respond with some reasons for people who haven't seen them before.

Swagger isn't anywhere near as game-changing in doubles as it is in singles formats due to the nature of 2v2 play, which always allows for one partner to respond to the Swagger user on a given play, that along with the frequent use of Protect means that simple prediction can be used to outplay Swagger. Frequent use of Follow Me / Rage Powder, Taunt, and Safeguard means that there should always be some means of protection from it anyway. Also just so you know, if you're confused you can still switch without hitting yourself in confusion. Swagger also has legitimate uses, such as SafeSwag, as well as simply being used to manage the odds your opponent has to deal with. Forcing an opposing special attacker into a 50/50 chance to attack each turn is actually pretty useful if you ever get around to trying it out.

 

[blinkie]

Just out of curiosity is there a particular reason swagger is still around in doubles?

Stratos edit: yeah, we answer this question like once a week, if you're going to make an argument to ban it at least don't be a passive aggressive turd about it

Me edit: I don't really want it banned just wondering why it isn't :L

play with trains IMO

 

[Level 51]

[10:10:34] it is guest: lol yh i dropped it
[10:10:40] it is guest: it was never really a thing
[10:10:44] it is guest: it was just a ladder alt
[10:11:15] it is guest: and then
[10:11:18] it is guest: i wrote a post
[10:11:44] it is guest: and i won't tell you guys tat spacebass somebody told me to write that

GUYS WE'VE BEEN RUSED

 

[SpaceBass]

What I actually said was, stop saying thundy should be banned in the chat, if you're really serious about it, post in the thread :)

 

[Laga]

u can't just pass the buck like that tho.

I mean someone has to explain it to him; why not in a chatroom where no one else needs to see the atrocity of "Thundy for bans,"

edit: lol this dude seems to be out of it

 

[Level 51]

u can't just pass the buck like that tho.

I mean someone has to explain it to him; why not in a chatroom where no one else needs to see the atrocity of "Thundy for bans,"

you think we haven't already tried that? ;__;

 

[SpaceBass]

lol laga the first time he said it I explained why it was silly and tried to tell him otherwise but it did not work.

 

[Arcticblast]

You know what's really good right now?

CM Cress.

Cresselia (F) @ Chesto Berry | Safety Goggles | Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature | Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk | 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock | Psychic
- Ice Beam | Icy Wind | Moonblast | support move
- Rest | Trick Room | Moonlight

We used to all knock this set, but recently it's been gaining popularity, even seeing a few uses in SPL. Basically, if you don't have a Bisharp, an Escavalier, or a really aggressive Hydreigon/Darkrai/Aegislash, you have a very good chance of losing to this. CM Cress is a defensive behemoth, taking almost insignificant damage from some of the strongest attacks in the game after a boost or two.

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- +1 Psyshock is a 3HKO on 0/0 Zard
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 195-229 (43.9 - 51.5%) -- Leftovers with Ice Beam 2HKOs at +1, Hydreigon can't 2HKO back
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 170-204 (38.2 - 45.9%) -- unfortunately you still lose to this unless you run Shadow Ball
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Rain: 184-217 (41.4 - 48.8%) - with Leftovers you can just boost past this
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%)

And that's just the huge hits. Cress soaks up smaller hits just as well as it always does, and can even pull off the same kind of support typically seen from a Cresselia. The slots beyond Calm Mind and a single attack can be basically anything. You can even run fucking Toxic if you don't want other CM Cress around. It's absurdly bulky, it sets up on pretty much any special attacker or support Pokemon, and it will absolutely win a ton of games. Pair with a strong Fighting-type for best results.

 

[Bughouse]

agreed that CM Cress is a monster right now. Safety Goggles Moonlight is my preference in this current meta, but the more old fashioned ChestoResto can still be threatening too. Lefties seems that it would usually be outclassed to me.

 

[finally]

i like cm/psyshock/ice beam/rest
dont send it out until lategame when all its checks are removed or weakened. kinda like xerneas. pros: you sweep and win. also slight surprise. cons: you are down 6-5 from the beginning because you can't use it like a regular support cress and switch it in willy nilly since you wanna set up with it later

 

[SpaceBass]

Arctic and others, please refer to turn 26 of this game as to why CM cress is garbage and should never be used.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-220632932

Seriously though cress is a beast, gg Lolk

EDIT: That davila idiot on the ladder loses to CM cress http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-220708214

 

[youngjake93]

Why are these Cresselia sets not CM/Moonblast/Icy Wind/Rest??? It's the set that requires the least counter removal late-game while also remaining useful early game or if you can't get off a sweep. I really don't think Cresselia should be played as your ONLY win condition in a serious match. The Psyshock/Ice Beam sets basically forces Cress into late game sweeper without providing support and even then you need to remove more things to sweep than with Moonblast+Icy Wind. Btw even if the spread move is really weak, having it protects you from Sash+Follow Me or Protect prediction shenanigans which could lose you the game.

And of course Cresselia is going to lose to STAB Single Target Heat Wave Crit in Sun from crazy sAtt. That person didn't play the rest of the match properly.

Idk I haven't kept up with the meta, so I could be wrong whatever.

 

[Stratos]

having ur cress be inoperable for multiple turns is the best way to let the damage get out of hand to the point where u cant recover. Moonlight > Rest by 1000%, id say the fact that u originally chose Rest is precisely WHY your cm cress never caught on. In addition, STAB is used over moonblast so u can do respectable damage after one boost instead of only bein useful once the rest of ur team is dead and ur at +4. Some ppl say moonblast is better since no immunities, tho, but CM cress can force ur opp to play aggressive with darks so u can take em out.

Finally's CM cress is actually kind of different from Fangame cress which i still think is the most broadly applicable variant. Fangame cress can be useful early, mid, and late game as a TR setter, damage-dealing tank, and cleaning wall. finally's just aims to be the damage dealing tank part mostly. Moonlight/Icy Wind just seems too weak to be a legitimate threat and also i dont like rest bc if they can force u to rest at 0 CMs youre 100% fucked

 

[finally]

having ur cress be inoperable for multiple turns is the best way to let the damage get out of hand to the point where u cant recover. Moonlight > Rest by 1000%, id say the fact that u originally chose Rest is precisely WHY your cm cress never caught on. In addition, STAB is used over moonblast so u can do respectable damage after one boost instead of only bein useful once the rest of ur team is dead and ur at +4. Some ppl say moonblast is better since no immunities, tho, but CM cress can force ur opp to play aggressive with darks so u can take em out.

Finally's CM cress is actually kind of different from Fangame cress which i still think is the most broadly applicable variant. Fangame cress can be useful early, mid, and late game as a TR setter, damage-dealing tank, and cleaning wall. finally's just aims to be the damage dealing tank part mostly. Moonlight/Icy Wind just seems too weak to be a legitimate threat and also i dont like rest bc if they can force u to rest at 0 CMs youre 100% fucked

ive been experimenting with different cresselias
right now i really like calm mind, psyshock, moonblast, moonlight. just make sure to click the right moon move in battle!
the reason for moonblast is hit things neutrally
moonlight bc stratos is right about rest healing being bad
league of dice (Cresselia) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

.creepin

 

[aim]

I've decided to rename you Doubles OU because i can. That is all my frens.

 

[Stratos]

dont lie i know toast did it

 

[aim]

The man always gotta bring me down, sigh.

 

[nyttyn]

doubs ou is pretty cool right now, but i think that we need to have a new suspect test, dragonite

not because dragonite is overpowered, or anywhere near it. no, this would be a ban for the good of the tier players, who are so deluded to this fat yellow barney ripoff's powress that it is somehow extremely solidly double OU. this is a crime not only against the tier but against humanity itself, and the only way to rectify this is to suspect test and then ban this atrocious pokemon so that the poor players can be freed from the chains of their own questionable play decisions.

 

[Level 51]

doubs ou is pretty cool right now, but i think that we need to have a new suspect test, dragonite

not because dragonite is overpowered, or anywhere near it. no, this would be a ban for the good of the tier players, who are so deluded to this fat yellow barney ripoff's powress that it is somehow extremely solidly double OU. this is a crime not only against the tier but against humanity itself, and the only way to rectify this is to suspect test and then ban this atrocious pokemon so that the poor players can be freed from the chains of their own questionable play decisions.

whatfuck?