np: OU Suspect Testing Round 4 - Blaze of Glory

[yee]

Congrats to Jabba and Reachzero, and thanks for leading us well Phil enjoy that new job!

I hope Deoxys-E gets the boot. For me at least it's the hardest of any suspect to counter because its practically guranteed to get dual screens up and then you have a bunch of stupidly strong sweepers to deal with. I also don't think banning evasion items was enough to make Garchomp's evasion reasonable but at least the only sets that still abuse it use Substitute and therefore have Skarmory/Bronzong and Cloyster to beat them.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

When are they going to add Sandslash dream world ability on the smogon PO server, it keeps telling me it hasn't been released yet, but ti has.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Revise Aldaron's Proposal

Impeach Jabba because he voted Excadrill Uber.

Other than that, I'm ready to ladder!

 

[R_N]

When are they going to add Sandslash dream world ability on the smogon PO server, it keeps telling me it hasn't been released yet, but ti has.

There's a chance the screens may have been faked, so probably a better safe-than-sorry sort of deal.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

What's wrong with using Tailwind or giving Haxorus an Iron Ball for Trick Room?

Oh, well. But I'm wondering about Speed Forme Deoxys, who outclasses every nicheless lead in existence.

Also, I miss Brightpowder, it was Cacturne's best item. Speaking of which, we have to ban it in 4th Gen too, you know, for consistency. Also because it makes us look hypocritical when we recommend it on Cacturne's analysis.

If you ban Sand Veil, I will be very mad because you are robbing it of its niche.

And what's wrong with Snow Cloak? It's only good on Froslass.

 

[Blue_Star]

Well, it's ladder time. At this moment, I think nothing deserves a ban, but I might change my opinions, so yeah.

 

[Thorhammer]

There's a chance the screens may have been faked, so probably a better safe-than-sorry sort of deal.

Actually, it sounds like it's been proven that they were faked.

 

[Ulevo]

Oh, well. But I'm wondering about Speed Forme Deoxys, who outclasses every nicheless lead in existence.

This is false. Leads have different purposes. Even if you want to use ones that have comparable use, it doesn't outclass all of them. I myself am using a lead right now that sets up Stealth Rock that deals with threats Deoxys couldn't deal with effectively while fitting to my team.

 

[kaonohiokala]

Finally this topic. I've been trying to stay within the votin range regularly, but decay, hax, and Wash Rotoms have been killing me. Looking at the date ratings go in, I'd say I can take a while off from laddering for now.

It was nice knowing you, Latios, Deoxys-S, and Drizzle!

EDIT: Also, congrats Phil! We'll miss your reign here, but I'll be expecting discounts!

 

[StarmanXL]

Alright, another chance to fail miserably at making rating requirements.

Also still don't get why people are still harping on Excadrill being overpowered...or TR Reuniclus destroying offensive teams when every other trick roomer in the history of forever does the same.

 

[Nonary Game]

Well, that being said, I wouldn't mind if the likes of Garchomp goes. Maybe Latios as well, nothing else is that powerful. I also won't be able to hit requirements, as I'm not going to be around during the last week so I'll definitely get bumped off the ladder.

I always argued though that a ban should only be made if an element of play is inherently broken or overcentralizes the game to the exclusion of all other tactics. Pre-Platinum Garchomp is a perfect example of this, seeing how most teams consisted of Chomp, a counter, a counter-counter, etc.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Also, I miss Brightpowder, it was Cacturne's best item. Speaking of which, we have to ban it in 4th Gen too, you know, for consistency. Also because it makes us look hypocritical when we recommend it on Cacturne's analysis.

This was a part of the ban, and I've already done it on the server. The ban to BrightPowder and Lax Incense was an extention of the evasion clause, which applies to every generation that the evasion clause exists in. For that reason, I've already implemented it on the server in this manner.

For the record, if you guys have proof of new Dream World abilities being released or have reports of Dream World (or other) errors on the server, don't post them in this thread. They belong in the PO forum so that I will actually see them.

Anyway, it was nice having you in charge Phil, and I'll miss you! I'll continue to keep the server up to date with whatever suspect testing tells me to do, but don't be too mean to me, okay reach/Jabba? ;)

 

[shrang]

Congrats Phil and reach =D

Anyway, SUN needs to go. Unlike rain, this is probably something we can't use an Aldaron-esque proposal to balance this out because there are so many things that get buffed in it:

Chlorophyll sweepers (Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Lilligant)
May be solved with an Aldaron proposal style ban, but wait, there are more!

Fire-types:
CB Darmantian, Specs Heatran, Specs Chandelure, anyone? Without 4x resistances, you aren't going to take a hit from any of these any time soon. Oh, and I left the main culprit for last:

Player 1 switched in Victini!
*tick tick tick tick tick tick*
Player 2 went: "WTF"
*BOOM*

 

[Nonary Game]

Honestly, if we're going to ban this much weather, why not ban all of it?

I do agree however with Sun running around Victini pretty much forces you to run a 4x fire resist or Heatran or else V-Create hurts like a mother. (If it's been released yet)

 

[Thorhammer]

Honestly, if we're going to ban this much weather, why not ban all of it?

Because it is Smogon's policy not to ban things which are not broken.

Which also means not banning Sun.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

...Sooooo, is Victini/Darmanitan the problem or Sun as a whole...



...And wait, I could swear V-Create Victini didn't exist yet.

 

[mien]

...Sooooo, is Victini/Darmanitan the problem or Sun as a whole...



...And wait, I could swear V-Create Victini didn't exist yet.

It was released on April 16th

 

[666lumberjack]

It was released earlier this month.

 

[Warped Worlds]

Congrats Jabba and Reachzero! Phil, you will also be missed. :(

Time to get this shit done.

 

[Nonary Game]

I'm still thinking the main issue that concerns me from testing is Darmanitan/Victini when they're under sun. CB Flare Blitz vs a nondefensive Kingdra did something like 60% to me, and I'd have to see how V-create compares. I'll run calcs on it and edit in the results. The point here is that if something does not 4x resist it or resist with better defenses, it's an instant kill.

EDIT: Okay, CB Victini, positive natured vs neutral-natured Kingdra under sun:

492 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (180 Base Power): 165 - 194 (56.51% - 66.44%)

And Darmanitan:

624 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (120 Base Power): 139 - 164 (47.60% - 56.16%)

And Specs Heatran throwing out Overheat:

591 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (140 Base Power): 153 - 181 (52.40% - 61.99%)

 

[yond]

congrats reach + jabba on the new jobs (really excited for uu). Hope we can get this up and running asap.

BAN DRIZZLE

 

[baddjordan]

Checklist

HaxChomp
Flinchcadrill
Deoxys-(BAN ME PLEASE)
ThunderBroken
Sun- Venusaur is too strong...

LEAVE LATIOS ALONE WE ALL WANNA ABUSE HIM

 

[mien]

I'm still thinking the main issue that concerns me from testing is Darmanitan/Victini when they're under sun. CB Flare Blitz vs a nondefensive Kingdra did something like 60% to me, and I'd have to see how V-create compares. I'll run calcs on it and edit in the results. The point here is that if something does not 4x resist it or resist with better defenses, it's an instant kill.

EDIT: Okay, CB Victini, positive natured vs neutral-natured Kingdra under sun:

492 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (180 Base Power): 165 - 194 (56.51% - 66.44%)

And Darmanitan:

624 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (120 Base Power): 139 - 164 (47.60% - 56.16%)

And Specs Heatran throwing out Overheat:

591 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (140 Base Power): 153 - 181 (52.40% - 61.99%)

Darmanitan does 60.5% - 71.5% damage to a neutral Kingdra according to my calculations, assuming full attack investment, positive nature, Sheer Force and Choice Band attached under sun conditions.

 

[shrang]

And Darmanitan:

624 Atk vs 216 Def & 292 HP (120 Base Power): 139 - 164 (47.60% - 56.16%)

You forgot the Sheer Force boost, it should be 61.99% - 72.95%.

EDIT: NINJAD

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

If Darmanitan is banned then I will not be happy. And Kingdra is not even a bulky water.

And Heatran is not the only one with Flash Fire.

I would rather have Drought be banned than more of my favorite Pokémon, who unlike Speed Boost Blaziken, aren't broken outside of their weathers.

Also, would we be banning Drizzle or Politoed?

Also, V-create Victini are all named ビクティニ or some other five letter name so it may turn off new players to ban it now.