Metagame np: PU Stage 2 - Let's Go Crazy (Crown Tundra is out)

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MZ

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A new NP thread signifies that we've moved into a new stage of the tier's development. Typically this happens immediately after some major suspect test has concluded, but today it's because the post-DLC tier shifts are out and PU has gained 29 Pokemon while losing Thwackey and Pincurchin. We're in a fundamentally different metagame now, and there's so many new major threats that it's hard to catalogue them all. Plus there's all those PUBL threats that were banned in a very different tier that might need freeing, who knows. The situation PU is in now is so completely unprecedented I honestly don't know where we're going to go from here at the moment. The council will try to make frequent posts here updating everyone on where the tier will be going. Aside from that, this thread is for general meta discussion. Feel free to post all about which new threats are the most broken, how you've been adapting to this entirely new tier, and anything else you might want to get off your chest.

And please no random 1-liners, posts should contribute something to the conversation.
 
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Will Hitmonchan be better than Throh?
In regards to the DLC mons, I'm really excited to use Kangaskan and Lopunny! Also, it's crazy to see the RBY OU King in PU.
 
I see Perrserker being a huge wallbreaker in PU. Having a 120 BP STAB thanks to Steely Spirit, along with a boost with Band is a hugely dangerous combo. Being on the recieving end of a 525 Attack Iron head hurts a lot, especially when your weak to it.
 
my excitement to start playing has come back with the major shift and some things that i can't wait to use;

:perrserker:
one of the mons i've been wanting to use for a while, cb could be a huge threat and with coverage it gets it will be an extremely threatening wallbreaker. in combination with u-turn as well, it can even provide momentum for the rest of the team.

:rotom-frost:
i think this will become of the best mons in the tier, its extremely versatile and with the addition of heavy duty boots, hazards aren't that much of an issue for it. nasty plot, choiced sets, and even the occasional defog set will be incredibly good. in previous gens, rotom-frost has always been a top tier threat, but with the additional tools its gotten in gen 8, i think it'll be extremely good.

:stoutland:
the mascot is back, and although with the lost of return / frustration, i believe stoutland will still find a top spot as a wallbreaker since it still has facade available to it, and there's still not many switchins to it because of scrappy. even intimidate checks like defensive mawile will have more of a problem with it due to scrappy completely ignoring the ability.

:drednaw:
already seeing this thing in a few roomtour games, and i can see myself using this as an effective ho lead. it gets head smash and high attack stat and pressures hazard removal a lot. i already seen a few teams running whirlipede + drednaw + pawniard which on paper looks like an incredibly potent HO core that i can't wait to try out.

:boltund:
idk how to feel about this mon since i was never really a fan of it, however its ridiculous speed tier and decent coverage could be troublesome for a lot of offensive teams.

:orbeetle:
access to screens and sticky web could be really cool. it also has access to calm mind and recover and some pretty decent defensive stats (held back by a poor HP stat) which can potentially make a nice wincon.

there's a lot more i'd talk about and will for the duration of the thread. this shift has definitely given the tier some much needed shakeup, and i can't wait to jump in and play.
 
Set dump time:

Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Nature Power

Okay so I know this thing got a major shaft by losing Hidden Power, but that being said I don't think it'll be completely unviable. Fast sleeping moves in particular are a pain for many teams to deal with, for example. I chose Nature Power over Pollen Puff as for one, Normal + Grass actually provides better coverage than Bug + Grass, and Nature Power can cuck Sucker Punch users like Pawniard and the like.

Drifblim @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Strength Sap

A more offensive take on CM + Strength Sap Drifblim, this thing on paper looks quite annoying to deal with, particularly because Strength Sap is THAT good of a move. A bulkier build of this set might be a ton better but I wanted a spinblocker that wasn't a momentum sap nor a physical wallbreaker so this was a neat compromise.

Lickilicky @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Power Whip

Okay so people are having blue balls that Stoutland doesn't have many good STAB options sans Facade anymore, but you know who does? This thing. With high base power STAB options, that kind of offsets the mediocre base Attack. This might have a better niche when stupid shit like Tauros gets the boot but either way this could be fascinating, and a possible lure for checks to the bulky Wish set. It's also Intimidate immune so Mawile ain't as good of a check to it as it would be otherwise.

Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / Spikes

Basic gluemon of sorts. We've never had that many bulky Grounds if any at all, and Sandslash fulfills that niche decently well, and has extra utility in Spin and Knock Off.

Hitmonchan @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Throat Chop
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin

Another gluemon, another spinner, and a mon that's been a long time coming here. Decent bulk and power, plus priority is pretty damn neat, especially when you consider the amount of Mach Punch weak things in the current meta.
 
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BT89

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I see Sandslash as a pretty good utility mon, with moves like Stealth Rock, Spikes, Rapid Spin, and more helping it. It has a very good defensive game physically and can use physical attackers as setting up bait. Offensively, it's 100 Attack is one of the highest in the tier, allowing it to lash out hard hits, and its ability, Sand Rush, combined with sand, allow it to be a scary sand sweeper. Sandslash was one of my most used mons in (PU) last gen, so I'm excited for Sandslash.

Here's a set I've made.

Sandslash @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Leech Life

It allows him to add rocks to the opponent's side and can be paired up with a good spinner (Probably Mr. Rime), so he could be able to have a defensive game without Stealth Rocks. Also, Leech Life allows Sandslash to handle Grass-types, such as Lilligant and Leafeon. Overall, Sandslash seems like a very viable pick for PU, and should be considered when making a team.
 
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MZ

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I think PU should move back to beta like UU is considering. I'd probably unban most if not all of the mons and run council votes until the tier is stable before moving to suspect test.
PU still is in beta and we're almost certainly going to do some tiering via council vote before opening it up to full suspect tests. While we want to move to suspects as soon as possible, I think people understand that the tier might need a wee bit of immediate adjustment.
Yeah I agree with you, the PU council should look at reintroducing pokemon that we’re banned a while ago, like noctowl and articzolt
This is also being discussed, I can't say what or when might get freed because I simply don't know yet but it's clear that a lot of PUBL mons got banned at a time when the power level of the tier was much lower.
 

DC

Kpop Main, No Brain
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Looking forward to playing this drastically changed metagame where I expect Normal-types to dominate since there are very few Steel-types and decent priority.

:Tauros: :Stoutland: :Kangaskhan:
Tauros is probably the best Normal-type in the tier, boasting strong coverage in Earthquake, Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, and Throat Chop and an excellent base Speed stat of 110, meaning that it basically outspeeds the entire metagame barring Scarfers. There isn't gonna be alot of defensive counterplays to it since even phys def Mawile takes like 40-50% from EQ. Plus, it is gonna be difficult to revenge kill due to its Speed and decent bulk. Stoutland is sorta like a worse version of Tauros, trading Speed for slightly better damage and ability to hit Ghost-types. It doesn't have a strong spammable Normal move like last gen (unless you count Strength), but Choice Band is still going to be terrifying as always. Kangaskhan is not as strong as the other two, but it combines the good elements of other two (possessing strong coverage and ability to hit Ghost-types naturally) with a very strong priority. Plus, it is bulkier than the other two.

:Hitmonchan:
I expect Hitmonchan to be a staple on many teams since it is one of the most effective checks to the aformentioned Normal-types with Mach Punch. Having Rapid Spin also gives it decent role compression as an additional form of hazard control.

:Sandslash:
Finally, another Ground-type in the tier that won't get banned in like a week. It is one of the few Stealth Rock setters that can utilize Rapid Spin which is really strong for both setting up and removing rocks. Plus, it is fairly bulky on the phys def side, allowing it to soft check those pesky Normal-types.

:Rotom-Frost:
This is prolly my favorite drop. PU was in need of another Defogger, especially an offensive one. Rotom-F has many desireable traits, being an Ice-type that can break through the bulky waters and being an Electric-type that can bypass Ground-types. It can go multiple different sets (Nasty Plot, Offensive Utility, Defensive Utility) that can be customized to fit a plethora of teams.
 

sugar ovens

blood inside
is a Top Tiering Contributor
I can't complain about being sniped if it takes an hour for me to write something that's essentially a bunch of two liners about PUBL mons, but yes, free PUBL.

We got 29 mons.. That's roughly half of PU's mons before shifts, obviously PU is a new tier now. In my opinion we should, before banning anything, free the mons that are PUBL and that were banned in an entirely different and much weaker tier.

:thievul:
Pretty obvious. There are no automatic terrain setters now, making Seed sets much more difficult to set up. Specs Stakeout sets shouldn't be problematic with the amount of both defensive, but mainly offensive checks that we just got. A lot of fast mons, Hitmonchan and Kanga, Wigglytuff etc.

:gourgeist:
One "reason" for this is that the defensive typing is very valuable and healthy for the tier (even though NU stole Gourg-Super). The proper reason for this unban is, again, the inclusion of several solid checks (bugs, steels, flyings, Frostom).

:swoobat:
Swoobat has never been ban-worthy and we have no auto-terrain setters, so i have to mention it, otherwise i'd feel bad. It's a stupid mon that doesn't bring anything good to the tier, however.

:appletun: :rapidash-galar:
Possibly still broken, but we should try them out anyway. We got many strong offensive threats, many of them with STABs supereffective to Grass. In addition to the already prominent Rime and Glaceon, it should be enough to break Appletun. Hopefully. Apple Acid also wouldn't be as good in a more offense-oriented meta. Rapidash - uh.. No terrain, some Steel-types, Boltund.. but probably it's still busted?

:noctowl:
The question is whether offensive pressure is enough to beat this. In my opinion, no.. Lickilicky probably checks this fine-ish, but still, with the combination of Hypnosis (and potentially blunder policy), Agility, Nasty Plot and unresisted Hurricane.. The mon just.. beats you if it hits the moves, nothing that dropped changed it. I might be just biased here though, i hate sleep-inducing moves with passion.

:arctozolt:
Bolt Beak is really, really awkward to lock yourself into with the amount of Electric-immunities we have and like every now mon is faster that it and has Ground or Fighting coverage. Mixed non-choiced sets still beat everything slower than them, though, and the amount of breakers we have is already pretty scary. Offensively it's manageable, but should we unban a breaker that has no viable defensive counterplay at all? No.

:silvally:
Unban them after second DLC, but another round of Silvally whack-a-mole is not feasible during PUPL and PU Open. We still don't have good enough blanket checks that don't instantly drop to coverage.
e: And if you really want to unban some of them, i hope that it's now clear that the formes are essentially the same mon with the same tools. Unban a common typing with defensive utility that wouldn't restrain teambuilding and that would be at least somehow beneficial to the tier - Ground or Grass for example, not a type like Electric or Bug which requires special checks. Sillvally is still broken, tho.
 
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Raahel

MANO TENGO FE
is a Tiering Contributor
Hi, I'm going to give my opinions on the new pokemon added and give some sets


Boltund @ Life Orb
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Fire Fang
- Psychic Fangs
- Play Rough

Boltund @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Fire Fang
- Psychic Fangs
- Play Rough
Boltund has a great movepool that makes it have a very good coverage to hit most of the pokemon in PU. The Life Orb set specifically makes it a great wallbreaker in the tier, also having a very good speed tie.


Butterfree @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Substitute
- Hurricane

Butterfree @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
Butterfree can be a great setup swepper if used at a good time or at a specific time it does not have the best movepool but it can gain a lot of coverage with energy ball / bug buzz + hurricane in addition to having access to roost substitute and sleep power that do a fearsome setup swepper.


Perrserker @ Choice Band
Ability: Steely Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Seed Bomb
- U-turn

Perrserker @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Seed Bomb
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
Perrserker can be a great physical wallbreaker with his Banded or SD sets, also the variable scarf or LO in addition to having tough claw that gives more power to contact attacks without a doubt a great addition.


Hitmonchan (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Throat Chop

Hitmonchan @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Mach Punch
- Throat Chop

Hitmonchan (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Throat Chop
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin

Hitmonchan (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Atk / 88 SpD / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Throat Chop
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
Hitmonchan Come back! the truth hitmonchan was my favorite pokemon in sm and I really like his turn, now with the addition of Heavy Duty Boots and rapid spin gives +1 speed makes it a more veritable pokemon to be able to use Offensive or Hazard Removal the truth a great turn.


Rotom-Frost @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt

Rotom-Frost @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp


Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Blizzard
- Will-O-Wisp
Rotom-Frost is back too and more ornate and more versatile thanks to heavy duty boots that help increase its longevity on the field, it can be used Defensive, Offensive with NP Scarf and even Defog.


Orbeetle @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Psychic
- Recover

Orbeetle @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic

Orbeetle @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Bug Buzz
- Recover
- Stored Power
Orbeetle can be very good pokemon since it can give support with Sticky Web or a set Screens, in addition to having offensive capacity with CM sets and SM Stored Power.


Drednaw @ Focus Sash
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Bulldoze

Drednaw @ Leftovers
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 16 SpD / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Liquidation
- Superpower

Drednaw @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
Drednaw can be a great wallbreaker Also with his SD, SD LO and Banded sets in addition to being able to take advantage of Stong Jaw or Swift Swim and is capable of serving as a suicide lead if needed.


With this I finish my first part of my opinion and sets of the new pokemon, Soon I am my opinion on the rest.
 
Hi i want to talk about some "new" mons in the tier
:unfezant: :ninjask:
We gain offensive flying types now outside of :farfetch: wich is great. The GOAT Ninjask is back...
:tauros:
BAN THIS PLS.. he has coverage to all normal resist and great speed needing only scarfers to outrun this..
:Wigglytuff: :lickilicky:
More wish support helping balance to be better in the tier, especialy wishport Tuff
:Sandslash: :marowak:
Ty for more ground types. Sandslash has a new niche in a sand rush swepper having :hippopotas: as sand setter

Most of the NU drop going to be strong AF.

I love this big drops because you have more tools to play around.
 
retest these

gourgeist - prob needs the retest the most, we also have actual normal variety now so you dont have to run a itemless mon to deal with poltergeist... additionally we have unfezant which is honestly the first non evio normal/flying we've had and it has the bulk/speed to handle band or NP... in any other gen we'd have plenty of these already (cough fearow/pidgeot) and we wouldve never banned gourg

thievul - yeah just banned it but no more terrain, there are some mons that come in on even specs dark pulse stakeout to heal up (wiggly/licki) and we now have waaaaay more priority, along with faster mons

noctowl - our speed is much better, we have additional stuff that makes it cry and while it would s till be good, even more elecs and faster things will keep it checked along w/ priority/bulky bois

appletun - um the number of new bois alone would almost be enough to cause it problems... nowadays i dont see it standing out to the extent it did previous, would be just a good mon, if you are feeling cocky switch jask into a apple acid/body press and make them mad... wigglytuff gets comptetive boost from apple acid + immune to draco? thats cool

golurk - tangela alone makes its life miserable, it eats almost anything NU sad

swoobat - priority + bulky bois + jask

oh man im so glad hattrem + jask are back, since they are even more outclassed comparatively in NU than previously, with additional drops from second DLC, we are most likely gonna keep them this time too

WE NOW HAVE SPEED CONTROL so i would say we can handle the silvs now (at one point we only had ~5 mons that outsped silv) but we dont have to bother with them yet

I wanna stress that we should retest gourgeist first (before any bans aka potentially tauros) because when we do it'll be everywhere and help against tauros and other normals, its defensive set has much more utility atm then its offensive one would

but how do we get tauros and not bouff
 
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Akir

A true villain!
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Just wanted to quickly announce that the council is working on reshuffling PUBL by unbanning what we feel this basically-brand-new meta can take. We are pushing to have this done ASAP, but due to some council members wanting to get their feet wet first + our long range of timezones, I am expecting to have the results tomorrow (but if they are finished early, I will make a post). See you all then!

edit: some people have asked and the answer is all of them. All of the current PUBL mons are being looked at.
 

SergioRules

||blimp||
is a Community Contributor
I'll do my normal analysis on all the drops, and yes I mean all of them. I'll also try to give ratings out of 10 on how good I think they'll be because that seems like fun.
:dedenne: This thing is kind of just a worse Emolga (which I'll get to later) trading a Ground immune for a Dragon immune, but with the lack of Dragon types we have, that's not too notable. 1/10
:dunsparce: Another mon without much going for it, especially since we have broken Normals like Tauros and Kangaskhan, there's very little reason to run this. 0/10
:emolga: I was actually looking forward to this mon, as added access to Energy Ball means that it isn't completely walled by Ground types, even though Air Slash hit most of them already. Has a ton of utility with Encore, Defog, Knock Off, U-turn, Taunt, Nuzzle, and decent enough attacking and speed stats to be usable enough. Not great, but certainly not the worst. 4/10
:exeggutor: At first glance, I thought this would be absolutely broken. Strong moves, good stats, recovery, good STAB combination. But looking further into it, Eggy might be alright, its Speed is certainly lacking, and its coverage is very limited now that Hidden Power is gone. I think there's a lot of variability in the potential sets of this mon, Trick Room, Calm Mind, Specs, Scarf, SubSeed, even something like SD could be an okay lure. 8/10
:golduck: Thought this could be cool with Flip Turn as its other coverage is pretty good. Hydro/Ice Beam/Focus Blast with some filler move in either Flip Turn on a Scarf set, or something like Calm Mind or Encore. It also adds to rain's viability a little bit, being a setter that can Flip out. But overall, kind of underwhelming and I'm still disappointed that it didn't get Nasty Plot. 4/10
:kangaskhan: Broken mon, KangaSpikes is back. Scrappy is such a good ability in a tier where we just had a huge surge in Ghost type viability with the DLC. Its STAB Fake Out and coverage to handle Normal resists might put this over the edge and I wouldn't be too surprised if we end up banning it soon. 9/10
:lickilicky: A decent Normal type, nothing like Kang or Tauros, but having fat Wish with decent defenses and being unable to be Taunted is pretty good. Definitely going to see use on whatever stall will look like now. It also has decent Attack and STAB Explosion which could be neat to fiddle around with. Knock Off and Heal Bell are good support, SD and good coverage can find use offensively, overall fun mon, but probably won't be amazing. 5/10
:lilligant: Losing Hidden Power hurts this so much. Not being able to hit Steels, Fires, Poisons, or Flyers even with a normally effective move sucks a lot. Quiver Dance will probably suck with its coverage being limited to Grass move of choice and Pollen Puff, but Scarf could be okay since it has Healing Wish and other utility moves with its decent Speed tier, but overall I see no reason to use this when we have much better Grass types. 5/10
so I was told after posting this that Lilligant also has Nature Power which actually makes it much better. 7/10

:lopunny: Another Normal type, got some cool new moves with Close Combat and U-turn, Healing Wish and STAB Fake Out are always nice, but unfortunately, its strongest STAB move is either the inaccurate Mega Kick, or Strength. It does have decent coverage, a nice Speed tier, and good utility moves, but with the other Normals here right now, its probably not your best bet. 3/10
:lycanroc-midnight: I'm a little worried about this being busted, with STAB never missing Stone Edge, good coverage for its resists in Close Combat, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, and Psychic Fangs, and a decent Speed tier. It also has the option of running Rock Polish to boost its Speed even higher or Swords Dance to make its breaking power that much better. 7/10
:marowak: Eh, not sure about this. I love Marowak and all, but it hasn't really gotten any buffs that would make me think it's any better than it has been for the last few generations which were all kind of mediocre. Points for good coverage though. 4/10
:pinsir: Really excited to use this, it has coverage for pretty much every Bug resist in the tier and hits really hard. Scarf Moxie or SD Mold Breaker sets will be really fun to use. 8/10
:sandslash: Spikes was a big buff to this Pokemon. Now it can act as a better Carkol (which I guess isn't saying too much) with hazard stacking and Rapid Spin in one slot. Rapid Spin's buff this gen also means that a Swords Dance set can have an option to boost its Speed that doesn't involve Sand Rush. Unfortunately, I think some of the things that have help it back previously will continue to, so it won't be super great, but still good. 5/10
:stoutland: Anyone remember Double Dog in SM with Stoutland and Lycanroc? I just had the idea of doing that again. An amazing breaker with Scrappy just like Kangaskhan. Unfortunately, Stout really suffers from the loss of Return and Frustration this generation, and like Lopunny, its best STAB is Strength. I don't know if the lack of that power will be enough to keep it in check, but it'll still be fun to use. 6/10
:tauros: Man are you joking, get this out of here. Sheer Force boosted STAB Body Slams and super good coverage with a good Speed tier and Attack stat? This seems like one of the more broken drops up there with Kangaskhan. 11/10
:wigglytuff: An okay Pokemon, Fairies are cool and new access to Misty Explosion is nice. It also gets the coveted Wish+Teleport with a super beefy HP stat. Knock Off, Stealth Rock, and Heal Bell are good for support, and Competitive is a decent ability for dissuading Defog or Intimidate. However, the HP isn't backed up by good defenses making this actually kind of frail and the low speed is definitely an issue for it. 4/10


:shuckle: Not too much to say on this, we had it before and it only rose because of some spammed hyper offense team, but it probably still won't be good here. 3/10
:boltund: I thought it was sad in the beginning of SWSH to see this stop at RU just like Cramorant in UU (which we hopefully get next month) because I really wanted to use it here. Now that it's here, I'm not too sure how well it will preform. It is pretty strong with Strong Jaw boosted attacks and its speed tier actually means it can run Adamant if you want to. The coverage lets it hit Electric resists pretty well (even though it doesn't get Ice Fang) and it can choose to even pivot with Volt Switch. It is a little frail but overall I think it'll be decent enough. 7/10
:butterfree: Broke mon. Compound Eyes Hurricane and Sleep Powder are just too reminiscent of Vivillon which I've tried to block out of my head for a while. Heavy Duty Boots even allows it to bypass its most glaring weakness to Stealth Rock. Very scary mon. 9/10
:drednaw: I honestly don't know what to say about this mon. It could be really good but it also could just kind of be meh. It's pretty strong as an offensive Stealth Rocker, and also adds another rain sweeper, but other than that I'm just not too sure. 6/10
:drifblim: Great great mon, Strength Sap was such a huge addition and I'm not sure if it'll be balanced down here. Thank goodness it didn't get Poltergeist or we might be in real trouble. But still, a strong STAB Acrobatics and access to a lot of good coverage makes me think this'll be pretty good. 7/10
:hattrem: I hate this mon and I'm so sad it's back but maybe with the other drops it'll be a little easier to kill now. 0/10 out of spite, 7/10 realistically
:hitmonchan: We get another spinner after banning Hitmontop. This one has a little rougher matchup with physical attackers due to lack of Intimidate, but makes up for it with strong STAB Mach and Drain Punch which will probably help check all the new Normals we got. 7/10
:klinklang: Another mon I haven't explored too much. I think it'll be good enough, but lack of a way to hit Stunfisk does kind of hurt it. 5/10
:ninjask: Glad to have this back because I loved it. Dual Wingbeat is a nice buff to the Heavy Duty Boots set since it hits harder than Aerial Ace, and itemless Acrobatics sets will still probably be as threatening as ever. 8/10
:orbeetle: I've waited for this mon for so long. It suffers from some bad 4MSS, but at least it has some variability in the sets. Calm Mind, Stored Power, Iron Defense, Body Press, Sticky Web, good STAB moves, and most importantly Recover. This is going to be a huge threat in my opinion, but I'm so stoked to use it. 9/10
:perrserker: Another potentially broken mon. Either has a STAB move with no switchins due to Steely Spirit, or all of its moves being boosted a little with Tough Claws and still probably being super hard to switch into. Luckily its low bulk and speed leave it very easily revenge killed, but getting to that point could easily cost you a Pokemon. 8/10
:rotom-frost: We finally got a Rotom, hooray! Nasty Plot and Heavy Duty Boots make this thing a super big threat. We all know how good Rotom-Frost has been in the last few generations, so it's easy to see how this might be a little too much. Thankfully many of the other drops are faster than it and can threaten it out. But switch into it is still very hard. 9/10
:unfezant: Unfezant has been my favorite mon and I started making a petition to give it the move Brave Bird back in mid-ORAS. I never actually published the petition, but obviously GameFreak heard my silent plea and gave it that buff. Good Attack, good support moves, decent Speed, and benefitting from Heavy Duty Boots help it out. I do think it still has some shortcomings, but it'll be fairly decent. 7/10
 
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zS

this is all a moo point
is a Top Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
Hi everyone, I'm going to do what I usually do when shifts happens, posting a few sets that I think can be good for all of them. But those sets are mainly there for beginers that would like to start post dlc pu. It's just a small help and ressource for everyone. that being set let's start!
:ss/boltund:
Physical Wallbreaker (Boltund) @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Fang
- Crunch
- Fire Fang
- Volt Switch / Play Rough

Special Wallbreaker (Boltund) @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hyper Voice
- Sleep Talk
:ss/butterfree:
Quiver Dance (Butterfree) @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute / Roost
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane

Special Wallbreaker (Butterfree) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Air Slash / Sleep Talk / Sleep Powder
- U-turn
:ss/dedenne:
Substitute Attacker (Dedenne) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Recycle

Choice Specs (Dedenne) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Sleep Talk
:ss/drednaw:
Lead (Drednaw) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Stealth Rock
- Waterfall
- Protect

Physical Attacker (Drednaw) @ Life Orb
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Crunch

Choice (Drednaw) @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Crunch
:ss/drifblim:
Defog (Drifblim) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Def / 240 Spd / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Strength Sap
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp

Unburden (Drifblim) @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp / Strength Sap
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
:ss/dunsparce:
Coil (Dunsparce) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 132 SpD / 128 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Glare
- Headbutt
- Rest
:ss/emolga:
Defensive (Emolga) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic / Defog
- U-turn

Offensive (Emolga) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball
- Air Slash
- Roost
:ss/exeggutor:
SubSeed (Exeggutor) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Psychic
- Giga Drain

Special Attacker (Exeggutor) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Psyshock
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

Offensive Trick Room (Exeggutor) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Giga Drain
- Psyshock
- Leaf Storm
:ss/golduck:
Choice (Golduck) @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Surf / Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

Sub Cm (Golduck) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
:ss/hattrem:
Magic Bounce (Hattrem) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nuzzle
- Giga Drain
- Mystical Fire
- Psychic
:ss/hitmonchan:
Physical Attacker (Hitmonchan) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- Rapid Spin

Assault Vest (Hitmonchan) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- Rapid Spin

Specially Defensive (Hitmonchan) (M) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 92 SpD / 168 Spe
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
:ss/kangaskhan:
Physical Attacker (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
:ss/klinklang:
Shift Gear (Klinklang) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Magnet Rise / Rest
- Gear Grind
- Wild Charge / Sleep Talk
:ss/lickilicky:
Specially Defensive (Lickilicky) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Heal Bell

Choice Band (Lickilicky) @ Choice Band
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Serious Nature
- Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
:ss/lilligant:
Quiver Dance (Lilligant) (F) @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Pollen Puff / Nature Power
:ss/lopunny:
Choice Band (Lopunny) @ Choice Band
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Switcheroo

Toxic Orb (Lopunny) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Switcheroo
- Close Combat
- Facade
- U-turn
:ss/lycanroc-midnight:
Choice (Lycanroc-Midnight) @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Fang

Sweeper (Lycanroc-Midnight) @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Fire Fang
- Close Combat
:ss/marowak:
Physical Attacker (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
:ss/ninjask:
Acrobatics (Ninjask)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

Boots (Ninjask) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dual Wingbeat
- U-turn
- Protect
:ss/orbeetle:
Lead (Orbeetle) @ Light Clay
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Agility Calm Mind (Orbeetle) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Rest

Choice Scarf (Orbeetle) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic
- Trick

Iron Defense + Calm Mind (Orbeetle) @ Heavy-Duty Boots : Lum Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Stored Power
- Body Press
:ss/perrserker:
Choice (Perrserker) @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Fake Out / Sleep Talk

Assault Vest (Perrserker) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- U-turn
:ss/pinsir:
Choice (Pinsir) @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- X-Scissor
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Sleep Talk

Lead (Pinsir) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
:ss/rotom-frost:
Nasty Plot (Rotom-Frost) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Blizzard

Choice Scarf (Rotom-Frost) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Nasty Plot / Thunderbolt / Defog
- Volt Switch
- Blizzard

Defog (Rotom-Frost) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Blizzard
:ss/sandslash:
Defensive (Sandslash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Def / 156 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off

Offensive (Sandslash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
:ss/stoutland:
Wallbreaker (Stoutland) @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Strength
- Superpower
- Facade
- Thunder Wave

Toxic Orb (Stoutland) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Superpower
- Protect
- Toxic
:ss/tauros:
Sheer Force (Tauros) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Body Slam
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard / Close Combat / Earthquake

Choice Band (Tauros) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
:ss/unfezant:
Choice (Unfezant) @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Sleep Talk

Defog (Unfezant) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
:ss/wigglytuff:
Wish Teleport (Wigglytuff) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 48 HP / 208 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Teleport
- Dazzling Gleam

Offensive (Wigglytuff) @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast / Stealth Rock / Knock Off

Assault Vest (Wigglytuff) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
Alright fwiw, I'm finally done with this post. Please tell me if I made any mistake I probably forgot a few things because mentioning 29 mons without making any mistake is kinda hard haha ^^. Thanks for reading me and see ya!
 
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wooper

heavy booty-doots
is a Forum Moderator
Why run Cute Charm on Toxic Orb Lop? You’d think Klutz would be better so you don’t get poisoned. Also Rest over Recover for Orbeetle.
klutz would avoid poison, but then facade doesnt get boosted. i think that lop should be limber on that set so you can safely switch into nuzzle and t wave, activate toxic orb and switcheroo it on the next turn. thats just me though
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
First impressions of a few mons from playing and spectating some games:

1593709089252.png
1593708829470.png
Probably the two best offensive pokemon in the tier. Tauros I feel is probably broken as its super fast, powerful, and bulky at the same time. Add that to its improved coverage of Close Combat and Throat Chop and theres really nothing switching in safely. Rotom-F benefits so much from Heavy-Duty Boots as the main way of pressuring it from spamming Volt Switch is now out of the window. It can get free momentum from teams at little cost while still being threatening on its own. Special walls aren't safe either because of Nasty Plot or Trick.


1593709361040.png
I saw some people hating on this but its actually quite consistent at its job. Physically bulky sets can soft check a lot of pokemon like Pawniard while still having decent offensive presence due to Knock Off. Its pretty unpredictable as you don't know whether its gonna be setting Rocks, Spikes, Spinning or just straight up attacking.

1593709592877.png
This thing is amazing. I don't think people realize just how bulky Lickilicky is. It's so fat it can 1v1 physical attackers like Kangaskhan while fully invested specially. With its monstrous Wishes and access to Heal Bell, Lickilicky is exactly what the tier needed to combat scary offensive threats. And it fits on more than just stall teams. I've seen people pair this with stuff like Tangela and Throh to make these amazing bulky cores that function on offensive and defensive teams alike.

1593709915660.png
The blimp is actually better than I expected. I have run into a lot of Defog sets with Wisp and Hex, who are usually paired with Spikes users and pokemon like Kangaskhan and Hitmonchan. While they're never truly huge threats, theyre very consistent at getting into play and being annoying, spreading status and checking a lot of common pokemon. Additionally, seeing Drifblim in preview means you can never relax, because there's always the chance of it being a CM set so you better keep your Dark-types and fat status users healthy. It's not the simplest mon to use but there's a lot more you can do with it now that it has increased longevity of Strength Sap.
 
wigg.gif

:wigglytuff: :wigglytuff: :wigglytuff: :wigglytuff: :wigglytuff: click for spread
spread probably isn't ideal, and can probably hit some benchmarks. used spdef to potentially pivot into things such as manectric, butterfree, non-np mr. rime rotom-f, etc.


Aside from Perrserker, Wigglytuff has been something I've been pretty excited for with Teleport changes and its access to Wish. Being able to pass off base 140 HP wishes while gaining some sort of momentum is incredible. However, one of the main things holding back Wigglytuff from being as effective as it could be, is the lack of defenses outside of its gigantic HP stat. Its Normal / Fairy typing may seem awkward as well at times since it can't reliably check fighting types anymore, however it does bring the tier a much needed defensive ghost immunity providing some form of counterplay to Poltergeist.

:drakloak: :palpitoad: :roselia: :mareanie: :kangaskhan: :dusknoir:
These are just some of the mons that I believe benefits greatly from Wigglytuff. Personally, something I've been trying is using WishPort Wigglytuff along with Drakloak and a TSpiker in Mareanie or Roselia. Personally, one of the main things that deterred me from using Drakloak was its inability to stay healthy consistently. Palpitoad is one of the premier Stealth Rockers in the tier, however the lack of reliable recovery is a huge handicap to it being effective throughout the game. Kangaskhan and Dusknoir are some examples of Pokemon that benefits from hazards like Stealth Rock and Spikes because of their ability to pivot in from a Teleport and chip down the opponent constantly. I think Wigglytuff has a lot of potential synergy with a lot of common Pokemon in the tier and no longer should be something that's overshadowed by other clerics, namely Lickilicky.
 
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