howdy
Haven't done one of these in a while, but I believe the current state of the tier needs addressing and at termi's request, I suppose I'll voice my reasoning.
I think Ktütverde summed up quite well Eggy's positioning in the tier. Eggy is extremely comparable to previously QB'd Clawitzer - a slow, powerful choicelocked breaker who's defensive counterplay is entirely reliant on predicting perfectly just to prevent it from completely obliterating the opponent's defensive core. Furthermore, it's destruction it caused on the tier was easily supported through the likes of common VoltTurn cores, in order to always put the Clawitzer player in an advantageous position, all before it even clicked a move. One could argue that in Clawitzer's case, it was in a meta that was much more easily abusable since Water immunities were kinda crap because all of them (Poliwrath, Jellicent, Heliolisk, Toxicroak, etc) dropped to Claw's coverage and teams needing to account for other QB'd threats like Omastar and Kingler in tandem with Claw could just be simply asking too much for the tier to handle. However, not only is Eggy just as capable, if not more capable of completely dismantling all common defensive trends in the current PU metagame since that council session, but Eggy has completely warped the current defensive foundation of the tier to the point of it being majorly concerning enough to either be suspect tested or quickbanned.
My stance on the matter is for an Alolan-Exeggutor Quickban or an immediate Suspect Test ending before PUPL.
One major reason that immediate action needs to be taken is that PUPL is steadily creeping upon us and yet again, another PU tournament that will honestly be ruined for several weeks if Eggy remains during the beginning (at least) of the tour. By taking action now, PUPL will start off on a better footing than all previous SS PU tournament engagements. Given we have like 2-3 weeks before PUPL, this is ample time to adapt to the meta after Eggy's potential departure.
An argument to be made on a Suspect Test rather than a Quickban was that Eggy isn't a "new threat" to the tier but ultimately I both agree and disagree with this statement. While yes, Eggy has been in the tier for quite some time now and wasn't immediately pressing comparatively to other PUBL's like Virizion, Roserade, etc., the SS PU metagame completely shapeshifts after any council vote or monthly shift so a lot of the VR bounces once either the former or latter occur. As soon as one council decision happens, an immediate threat jumps to the top. A tier filled of offensive variety is going to constantly forego changes like these as they are addressed. So, to say Eggy is a "new threat" is completely acceptable in my book and definitely worthy of a quickban. What is the difference to the Clawitzer quickban to an Eggy quickban? They are vastly similar in terms of raw breaking power and limited defensive answers, so how is this situation any different? By quickbanning Eggy now, we are essentially granting ourselves more time to adapt to the "new" tier once again. Aside from Claw's case where it wasn't the only major threat in question (Kingler and Omastar), the functionality and danger posed by Eggy is the same.
I understand the concern of wanting to give community involvement, and that not everybody is on the same boat with a quickban or a suspect test. But forums aren't as active because the Discord and the PS! room are where a large amount of the conversations have been taking place in recent times. I think one way to grasp community opinion on the subject quickly is by integrating Meta Surveys similarly to OU, and then people who wish to expand on their choice in the survey are more than welcome to move it to the forums. Obviously the forums are free and open to everyone, and forum integration is preferred since it is a much more professional and organized environment; but if you want quick opinions, this is an easy way to gauge how the PU mass is thinking.
Now, onto reasons why Eggy should be suspected/quickbanned.
1) Eggy Warps The Tier
Eggy is beginning to centralize the very structure of how to build defensively in the tier because it is able to abuse all common defensive cores. Stealth Rockers like Palossand, Druddigon, and Regirock are nearly unviable due to how Eggy can delete all of these with proper VoltTurn pairings. And if you try to use any of these 3, you are simply opening yourself up to Eggy getting a free turn to click a button. So before Eggy has even entered the field, you are already 1 turn and possibly 1 whole mon behind. Common special tanks like Gigalith, Lanturn, Aromatisse, Scrafty, Togedemaru, Guzzlord - all of these drop to Eggy's coverage options and more importantly, are forced to adapt to Eggy by either running Protect, Protect + some tech for Eggy (Ice Beam + 80 Speed Lanturn, Scale Shot/Dragon Rush +172 Atk Sandaconda, 136 Speed Weezing, 88 Speed offensive Garbodor, "defensive" Ribombee, etc.), and a combination of these mons due to how the current tier is shaped. Eggy isn't the sole culprit as to needing to run a multitude of defensive mons, since the sheer amount of offensive variety in the tier currently demands so; however Eggy's (no pun intended) ability to execute is completely unparalleled to any other offensive threat in the tier.
2) Eggy Is Adapting To Its Adaptations.
People are beginning to expect Choice Specs Eggy. People are beginning to expect Modest Choice Specs Eggy. Does this mean the Eggy player is now in a situation where it is forced to predict each turn? No, not at all. Instead, the exact opposite has occurred and now Timid non-Choice Specs Eggy is on the rise and is gaining significant popularity. Even without the boosting nature, Eggy is still able to completely demolish all of the aforementioned specially defensive tanks without needing to predict as much and puts the opponent in a constant guessing game. This isn't even mentioning Trick Room Eggy, LO +Synthesis 3 Atk, or even Substitute + 3 Atk Eggy - as we've only scratched the surface by referring to LO Timid 4 Atk Eggy above.
The obvious comparison is something similar to Clawitzer or even Duraludon, however this is also similar-in-concept to Virizion: as it started to adapt to how teams were handling it offensively. Rather than running Swords Dance or Calm Mind, it began to run a mixed LO + 4 Atk set in order to handle all of its defensive checks without losing its incredible damage output, and decided that wallbreaking for another teammate is more beneficial than ultimately being the sweeper itself. And once teams started to run multiple defensive checks whilst stacking Life Orb recoil in order to wear it down, Virizion began to run Synthesis + 3 Atk as a way to combat its counterplay. Although Eggy doesn't have the same impact Virizion left on the tier during its reign, it is still the largest demanding issue in the teambuilder and requires tremendous counterplay both defensively and offensively. But even that isn't oftentimes enough if you run into one of Eggy's techs.
This replay of Decem vs Termi which happened earlier today for PU Open Finals is a good example of just what Eggy is able to do to teams; not just in the teambuilder, but on the field as well. Decem's team is a fairly standard Bulky VoltTurn with a unique flare comprised of Scarf Mesprit and Cinccino as pivots to bring in Eggy safely versus their common switch-ins as well as revive Eggy so it can be used as aggressively as possible (this part of the team I'm theorizing since Eggy wasn't Healing Wish'd this game, but it is apparent that this strategy would be deemed useful in many matchups). The team also functions with Toxic Spikes support + Sand chip in order to further put the Eggy player in more favorable positions. As you can see from Termi's team, she has proposed herself with not only a Fire resist, multiple Grass resists, a Dragon immunity, but a Ditto to copy opposing Eggy and always have the jump on it with a Choice Scarf. She leads Ditto as a way to expect 1 of 2 possible leads from Decem: either Mesprit or Eggy. The former would take advantage of a Garbodor lead and the latter would claim a kill on lead versus Aggron, Guzzlord, or slow Garbodor. Rather than Decem falling for this, he leads Gurdurr for some Knock Off pressure but immediately doubles into Eggy because termi is already behind at this position, even though she gets a free Knock Off here. Already, termi is forced to make a decision of whether or not she should go into Cott to absorb the Dragon move, or go Guzz to absorb the Grass/Fire move. She makes the correct play here but by turn 7, she is now in another situation where she has to pick what dies to Eggy since her choicelocked Whimsicott went for a greedy Giga Drain on a Protect Gigalith. Once again, Guzzlord comes out to take the Flamethrower, but turn 9 it drops to Draco Meteor. Turn 10, Decem went for a -2 Leaf Storm on Aggron going for rocks and took half, and just in these short few turns, Eggy has significantly impacted the game. But Termi should be fine versus this, right? She still has a Garbodor, Whimsicott, and a Ditto, right? Well just 13 turns later, a free double-switch allowed Decem to be in another situation where he can click a button with Eggy, despite the resistances on Termi's remaining team. Termi yet again, made the correct play by going into Garbodor on a Giga Drain, but she faltered here by ignoring the Eggy as it Draco'd once again. At this point in the game, Termi was behind so she needed to start making plays and setting up later chances for herself, so she had to set hazards for her Silvally-Ghost in the back to have a chance, however, Decem was so far ahead, he was able to freely drop a Draco and nab himself yet another kill. The amount of prep and consideration that went into Termi's team beforehand still shows that adaptation and predictability can only get you so far when every turn is a coinflip involving this beast.
So where are we now? Eggy's defensive checks are no good if they run into a non-choiced Eggy or predict incorrectly. So that only leaves offensively threatening it with each passing turn. In a tier filled of offensive variety, and needing to account for everything threatening in the meta, this is simply impossible to do. Teams cannot afford to defensively experiment because by trying to account for X, this leaves you susceptible to Y. Not only in Eggy's case of switching what set it wants to run, but this statement represents the current position of the SS PU metagame in its entirety. There are quite a few mons who are also questionable for a Suspect Test or not, but Eggy is leagues ahead of all other offensive threats and deserves its own post.
This to me is a major problem. MZ said it best when he posted above "it should always be about what the mon does to teambuilding" and having to run a plethora of checks, a plethora of techs, and STILL be in a constant state of mind of "this can still lose to Eggy" is just simply unacceptable and definitely in need of immediate action.
Haven't done one of these in a while, but I believe the current state of the tier needs addressing and at termi's request, I suppose I'll voice my reasoning.
I think Ktütverde summed up quite well Eggy's positioning in the tier. Eggy is extremely comparable to previously QB'd Clawitzer - a slow, powerful choicelocked breaker who's defensive counterplay is entirely reliant on predicting perfectly just to prevent it from completely obliterating the opponent's defensive core. Furthermore, it's destruction it caused on the tier was easily supported through the likes of common VoltTurn cores, in order to always put the Clawitzer player in an advantageous position, all before it even clicked a move. One could argue that in Clawitzer's case, it was in a meta that was much more easily abusable since Water immunities were kinda crap because all of them (Poliwrath, Jellicent, Heliolisk, Toxicroak, etc) dropped to Claw's coverage and teams needing to account for other QB'd threats like Omastar and Kingler in tandem with Claw could just be simply asking too much for the tier to handle. However, not only is Eggy just as capable, if not more capable of completely dismantling all common defensive trends in the current PU metagame since that council session, but Eggy has completely warped the current defensive foundation of the tier to the point of it being majorly concerning enough to either be suspect tested or quickbanned.
My stance on the matter is for an Alolan-Exeggutor Quickban or an immediate Suspect Test ending before PUPL.
One major reason that immediate action needs to be taken is that PUPL is steadily creeping upon us and yet again, another PU tournament that will honestly be ruined for several weeks if Eggy remains during the beginning (at least) of the tour. By taking action now, PUPL will start off on a better footing than all previous SS PU tournament engagements. Given we have like 2-3 weeks before PUPL, this is ample time to adapt to the meta after Eggy's potential departure.
An argument to be made on a Suspect Test rather than a Quickban was that Eggy isn't a "new threat" to the tier but ultimately I both agree and disagree with this statement. While yes, Eggy has been in the tier for quite some time now and wasn't immediately pressing comparatively to other PUBL's like Virizion, Roserade, etc., the SS PU metagame completely shapeshifts after any council vote or monthly shift so a lot of the VR bounces once either the former or latter occur. As soon as one council decision happens, an immediate threat jumps to the top. A tier filled of offensive variety is going to constantly forego changes like these as they are addressed. So, to say Eggy is a "new threat" is completely acceptable in my book and definitely worthy of a quickban. What is the difference to the Clawitzer quickban to an Eggy quickban? They are vastly similar in terms of raw breaking power and limited defensive answers, so how is this situation any different? By quickbanning Eggy now, we are essentially granting ourselves more time to adapt to the "new" tier once again. Aside from Claw's case where it wasn't the only major threat in question (Kingler and Omastar), the functionality and danger posed by Eggy is the same.
I understand the concern of wanting to give community involvement, and that not everybody is on the same boat with a quickban or a suspect test. But forums aren't as active because the Discord and the PS! room are where a large amount of the conversations have been taking place in recent times. I think one way to grasp community opinion on the subject quickly is by integrating Meta Surveys similarly to OU, and then people who wish to expand on their choice in the survey are more than welcome to move it to the forums. Obviously the forums are free and open to everyone, and forum integration is preferred since it is a much more professional and organized environment; but if you want quick opinions, this is an easy way to gauge how the PU mass is thinking.
Now, onto reasons why Eggy should be suspected/quickbanned.
1) Eggy Warps The Tier
Eggy is beginning to centralize the very structure of how to build defensively in the tier because it is able to abuse all common defensive cores. Stealth Rockers like Palossand, Druddigon, and Regirock are nearly unviable due to how Eggy can delete all of these with proper VoltTurn pairings. And if you try to use any of these 3, you are simply opening yourself up to Eggy getting a free turn to click a button. So before Eggy has even entered the field, you are already 1 turn and possibly 1 whole mon behind. Common special tanks like Gigalith, Lanturn, Aromatisse, Scrafty, Togedemaru, Guzzlord - all of these drop to Eggy's coverage options and more importantly, are forced to adapt to Eggy by either running Protect, Protect + some tech for Eggy (Ice Beam + 80 Speed Lanturn, Scale Shot/Dragon Rush +172 Atk Sandaconda, 136 Speed Weezing, 88 Speed offensive Garbodor, "defensive" Ribombee, etc.), and a combination of these mons due to how the current tier is shaped. Eggy isn't the sole culprit as to needing to run a multitude of defensive mons, since the sheer amount of offensive variety in the tier currently demands so; however Eggy's (no pun intended) ability to execute is completely unparalleled to any other offensive threat in the tier.
2) Eggy Is Adapting To Its Adaptations.
People are beginning to expect Choice Specs Eggy. People are beginning to expect Modest Choice Specs Eggy. Does this mean the Eggy player is now in a situation where it is forced to predict each turn? No, not at all. Instead, the exact opposite has occurred and now Timid non-Choice Specs Eggy is on the rise and is gaining significant popularity. Even without the boosting nature, Eggy is still able to completely demolish all of the aforementioned specially defensive tanks without needing to predict as much and puts the opponent in a constant guessing game. This isn't even mentioning Trick Room Eggy, LO +Synthesis 3 Atk, or even Substitute + 3 Atk Eggy - as we've only scratched the surface by referring to LO Timid 4 Atk Eggy above.
The obvious comparison is something similar to Clawitzer or even Duraludon, however this is also similar-in-concept to Virizion: as it started to adapt to how teams were handling it offensively. Rather than running Swords Dance or Calm Mind, it began to run a mixed LO + 4 Atk set in order to handle all of its defensive checks without losing its incredible damage output, and decided that wallbreaking for another teammate is more beneficial than ultimately being the sweeper itself. And once teams started to run multiple defensive checks whilst stacking Life Orb recoil in order to wear it down, Virizion began to run Synthesis + 3 Atk as a way to combat its counterplay. Although Eggy doesn't have the same impact Virizion left on the tier during its reign, it is still the largest demanding issue in the teambuilder and requires tremendous counterplay both defensively and offensively. But even that isn't oftentimes enough if you run into one of Eggy's techs.
This replay of Decem vs Termi which happened earlier today for PU Open Finals is a good example of just what Eggy is able to do to teams; not just in the teambuilder, but on the field as well. Decem's team is a fairly standard Bulky VoltTurn with a unique flare comprised of Scarf Mesprit and Cinccino as pivots to bring in Eggy safely versus their common switch-ins as well as revive Eggy so it can be used as aggressively as possible (this part of the team I'm theorizing since Eggy wasn't Healing Wish'd this game, but it is apparent that this strategy would be deemed useful in many matchups). The team also functions with Toxic Spikes support + Sand chip in order to further put the Eggy player in more favorable positions. As you can see from Termi's team, she has proposed herself with not only a Fire resist, multiple Grass resists, a Dragon immunity, but a Ditto to copy opposing Eggy and always have the jump on it with a Choice Scarf. She leads Ditto as a way to expect 1 of 2 possible leads from Decem: either Mesprit or Eggy. The former would take advantage of a Garbodor lead and the latter would claim a kill on lead versus Aggron, Guzzlord, or slow Garbodor. Rather than Decem falling for this, he leads Gurdurr for some Knock Off pressure but immediately doubles into Eggy because termi is already behind at this position, even though she gets a free Knock Off here. Already, termi is forced to make a decision of whether or not she should go into Cott to absorb the Dragon move, or go Guzz to absorb the Grass/Fire move. She makes the correct play here but by turn 7, she is now in another situation where she has to pick what dies to Eggy since her choicelocked Whimsicott went for a greedy Giga Drain on a Protect Gigalith. Once again, Guzzlord comes out to take the Flamethrower, but turn 9 it drops to Draco Meteor. Turn 10, Decem went for a -2 Leaf Storm on Aggron going for rocks and took half, and just in these short few turns, Eggy has significantly impacted the game. But Termi should be fine versus this, right? She still has a Garbodor, Whimsicott, and a Ditto, right? Well just 13 turns later, a free double-switch allowed Decem to be in another situation where he can click a button with Eggy, despite the resistances on Termi's remaining team. Termi yet again, made the correct play by going into Garbodor on a Giga Drain, but she faltered here by ignoring the Eggy as it Draco'd once again. At this point in the game, Termi was behind so she needed to start making plays and setting up later chances for herself, so she had to set hazards for her Silvally-Ghost in the back to have a chance, however, Decem was so far ahead, he was able to freely drop a Draco and nab himself yet another kill. The amount of prep and consideration that went into Termi's team beforehand still shows that adaptation and predictability can only get you so far when every turn is a coinflip involving this beast.
So where are we now? Eggy's defensive checks are no good if they run into a non-choiced Eggy or predict incorrectly. So that only leaves offensively threatening it with each passing turn. In a tier filled of offensive variety, and needing to account for everything threatening in the meta, this is simply impossible to do. Teams cannot afford to defensively experiment because by trying to account for X, this leaves you susceptible to Y. Not only in Eggy's case of switching what set it wants to run, but this statement represents the current position of the SS PU metagame in its entirety. There are quite a few mons who are also questionable for a Suspect Test or not, but Eggy is leagues ahead of all other offensive threats and deserves its own post.
This to me is a major problem. MZ said it best when he posted above "it should always be about what the mon does to teambuilding" and having to run a plethora of checks, a plethora of techs, and STILL be in a constant state of mind of "this can still lose to Eggy" is just simply unacceptable and definitely in need of immediate action.
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