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np: RU Stage 3 - Like a Boss

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Omicron said:
Also, the WyTrio combo is incredibly underrated. Once you get rid of scarfers and the like, set up sweepers can reign free and dominate your opponent.
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Yes! I'm currently using those two, along with Magneton, and Triple-Trapping, as I like to call it, is pretty damn effective when it comes to preparing a sweep.

By the way, is there any hope that Xatu will drop down at some point? Natu jsut doesn't cut it, even with Eviolite he can't take powerful hits too well.
 
Going off what Omicron said, Poliwrath is a very under-rated Pokemon in RU, It's that god damn sexy typing mainly, I've SubPunch w/Encore to great success. It says fuck you to stall, (Nothing says fuck you better then a Poliwrath, right?) and also, Claydol sucks so hard right now ._. The rise of Rotom kinda makes my best team suck xD
 
As I see it, Claydol does what it reliably does: set up Stealth Rock, spin if and only if opposing team doesn't have a ghost, and provide a set-up bait for the opposing team to do work. I see Claydol as somewhat of a crutch if your team needs a spinner and SR on the same slot. If you want Claydol to spin reliably, you are borderline required to have Pursuit support from the likes of Krookodile, which happens to hard counter 99.9% of the Rotoms. On the subject of Rotoms, people need to run Sub+WOW with lefties more because it's a really good set imo, capitalizing on its bulk. Yeah, I guess Claydol's a decent defensive mon, but if you solely look at its defensive capabilities, I'll take Qwilfish or especially Gligar over Claydol any day.

Also, I agree that Poliwrath is pretty darn underrated. Says No to Sharpedo, one of the biggest offensive monsters out there. Not being able to damage Uxie is kinda icky but that goes for like ~20 other viable mons. 'Losing' to Qwilfish is disappointing--it's more like losing to Qwilfish's toxic spikes because Qwilfish can't touch it back. If you have a grounded poison or a reliable spinner, Poliwrath is pretty darn good.
 
Amarillo said:
Also, I agree that Poliwrath is pretty darn underrated. Says No to Sharpedo, one of the biggest offensive monsters out there. Not being able to damage Uxie is kinda icky but that goes for like ~20 other viable mons. 'Losing' to Qwilfish is disappointing--it's more like losing to Qwilfish's toxic spikes because Qwilfish can't touch it back. If you have a grounded poison or a reliable spinner, Poliwrath is pretty darn good.
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i agree that poliwrath needs a lot of support to do its job effectively. its weakness to toxic spikes greatly cripples any set with substitute, which is a very useful utility move when you have access to encore and bulk up. when you consider that and its poor speed, poliwrath is most effective on a balanced team that needs a stallbreaker, since it can encore something like stealth rock or a resisted hit and start subbing up and punching holes.

however, while its speed allows it to outrun most defensive mons, it doesn't have the bulk to reliably wall things outside of sharpedo. it just gets overwhelmed by heavy hitters while not doing much other than using encore to allow something else to come in free. against offensive strategies, you are basically giving up all of your momentum and your poliwrath is as good as dead by then; it can't sponge another hit coming in and it can't outspeed anything for the revenge kill.

therefore, if you see your opponent is running a lot of fast, heavy hitters on their team, then its best to get as much out of poliwrath as you can and use it for fodder or sacrifice it for a free switch-in. if you try to save it to use later, than you are just holding on to some dead weight because it's just gonna die anyways.

to expand on this, some good teammates for poliwrath are mons that are not effective against stall - ie, a fast, frail sweeper that can't break through certain walls - so that poliwrath can just come in on more easily and set-up. CB scyther, for example, can't just spam aerial ace in the early game and sweep if your opponent is carrying steelix, aggron, rhydon, or whatever standard flying resist they are packing. it can u-turn out, denting them in the process, to poliwrath who not only threatens the STAB SE waterfall, but is also fast enough to just sub up or encore them. in return, scyther takes care of poliwraths massive speed weakness, so scyther can come in and sweep after poliwrath is sac'd thanks to its great speed and coverage.
 
RotatingAtom said:
By the way, is there any hope that Xatu will drop down at some point?
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Xatu was sitting pretty in UU with 4.5% usage in October. A poke will drop down if it has less than an average of 3.4% usage in a span of 3 months, so unless it had a massive drop in usage this month (I don't play much UU anymore, so we'll just have to wait until Antar gets the November stats) AND in December, we won't get it in RU. Even if we do, we'll have to wait until January.
 
Claydol is wildly inferior to Sandslash. At least it packs a decent attack stat that can actually do some damage, and Night Slash to deal with the frailer Ghosts. Claydol is setup bait for anything with decent defensive stats and without a weakness to Ground. The only thing Claydol does well is Dual Screens in my opinion, since Trick Room is fairly bad and the Choice set is a gimmick at best.
 
sd acrobatics sceptile has to be my favorite set in this tier. its the greatest asset to an offensive team in the tier, i'm thinking. its blisteringly fast, especially after the unburden boost. +2 adamant sceptile sweeps with just acrobatics and leaf blade alone. earthquake just rounds out for nearly perfect coverage and it doesn't even get worn down by life orb.

however it loses to moltres without rock slide since acrobatics wont ko without the flying gem boost, even at +2. rock slide is an option over earthquake if you're worried about moltres, but losing to aggron and magneton is worse imo.
 
If you're worried about coverage, use Leaf Blade, EQ, and rock slide with Life Orb. Sceptile hardly even needs the Unburden Boost unless he's specifically for cleaning up late game. One of the problems with sweeping Sceptiles (especially the one time use Unburden ones) is the presence of priority and more specifically Honchkrow in RU. Honchkrow and Absol can both OHKO at least 50% of the time without any prior damage, and CB Extreme Speed Entei will do over 60%.

As always the fearsome Sucker Punch can be predicted around by using Swords Dance, but it would take guts to attempt the outprediction with Brave Bird in the wings and the possibility of Honchkrow throwing up a Sub.

SubSeed is his better set in my opinion (at least good Subseeders give me far more trouble than the Unburden Flight Gem ones do) Less at home in the general hard hitting offense that is the average RU team, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Aggron is broken. Even steels take huge damage from CB Head Smash, and anything that is weak to rock will be left crying. Also, Rock head prevents recoil, which makes Aggron insanely powerful. Move it into BL2, please.
 
Ever heard of Water-type moves? Steelix and Gligar? If you're too bad to handle it, just use a Dugtrio to revenge or something.

CB Aggron is very good but not broken. You need prediction like any other bander. Yeah, Steelix an Gligar takes a lot from Aqua Tail / Ice Punch, but resisted Aqua Tail is some perfect setup opportunity. Did I mention Head Smash's frustrating accuracy? Also, if your opponent doesn't have a flier or a normal-type, Aggron kinda just sits there, not really doing much. Well, to be honest, a lot of people use Honchkrow so it's an okay assumption to make, but if they're skilled they can get around Aggron by double switching on its painfully obvious switch-ins. Have you actually played the tier?
 
Yes. I've heard of water-type moves. And there is Earthquake for steelix and ice punch for gligar. And I forgot about Aggron's monsterous 180 physical def. So even some weaker fighting-type moves might miss the OHKO.
 
And you forgot about its base 50 Speed and 70/60 special defenses. Its pretty much demolished by any special attacker in the tier. Also, base 180 Def is really not impressive when
1. You're not investing in it
2. You're 4x weak to Fighting and Ground, two of the most common physical attacking types.

And its broken because it has a powerful Head Smash? I guess Rampardos and Relicanth are on the chopping block next.
 
DoABarrelRoll said:
Rampardos and relicanth? LOL. They have retarded defenses.
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and so does aggron with its weaknesses, also why do people underesitmate stunfisk? i dont get it, it actually fares fairly well. Whether as a lure or defensively, stunfisk also hard counters both varients of honchkrow, hp grass does shit. and sucker punch is useless vs it as it doesnt even come close to 2hkoing.
 
MoltenKyurem said:
also why do people underesitmate stunfisk? i dont get it, it actually fares fairly well. Whether as a lure or defensively, stunfisk also hard counters both varients of honchkrow, hp grass does shit. and sucker punch is useless vs it as it doesnt even come close to 2hkoing.
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I've been trying it out lately too and it was much better than I expected. decent bulk, good offensive typing and scald + discharge fares very well in the tier. It has the ability to wall a lot of the current top tier poke and should never be underestimated. Having to rely on Rest or pain split is a shame though.

Also, I'd like the council to discuss the most broken poke in the tier: Wynaut. Destroys tons of choiced pokes and setup sweepers and next to nothing can OHKO it. Facing it, you usually have no choice but sacking one of your choiced pokes or let your opponent get at least one free setup turn.
 
Amire said:
I've been trying it out lately too and it was much better than I expected. decent bulk, good offensive typing and scald + discharge fares very well in the tier. It has the ability to wall a lot of the current top tier poke and should never be underestimated. Having to rely on Rest or pain split is a shame though.

Also, I'd like the council to discuss the most broken poke in the tier: Wynaut. Destroys tons of choiced pokes and setup sweepers and next to nothing can OHKO it. Facing it, you usually have no choice but sacking one of your choiced pokes or let your opponent get at least one free setup turn.
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well, stunfisk DOES get restalk, so it can run an effective restalk set, i guess that counts as recovery
 
wynaut is essentially a 1 for 1 trade with your opponent. considering the lack of slow walls, who are wynaut's favorite prey, it can't tickle + pursuit/dugtrio trap anywhere nearly as effectively as there simply are less mons for it to trap (clefable, slowking, and steelix are trappable if you predict right, but outside that...). as for counter/mirror coating, yeah, you get a kill, but it's crippled at best. it's highly unlikely that wynaut will score two kills in a game.

I will play with it some more in the future, however, I don't think it's broken atm.
 
lars said:
If you're worried about coverage, use Leaf Blade, EQ, and rock slide with Life Orb. Sceptile hardly even needs the Unburden Boost unless he's specifically for cleaning up late game. One of the problems with sweeping Sceptiles (especially the one time use Unburden ones) is the presence of priority and more specifically Honchkrow in RU. Honchkrow and Absol can both OHKO at least 50% of the time without any prior damage, and CB Extreme Speed Entei will do over 60%.

As always the fearsome Sucker Punch can be predicted around by using Swords Dance, but it would take guts to attempt the outprediction with Brave Bird in the wings and the possibility of Honchkrow throwing up a Sub.

SubSeed is his better set in my opinion (at least good Subseeders give me far more trouble than the Unburden Flight Gem ones do) Less at home in the general hard hitting offense that is the average RU team, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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the unburden boost is extremely helpful as it makes sceptile completely invulnerable to revenge killing. there isn't a single choice scarfer that can catch scetile after the boost. if priority is a problem, just put up some screens before sweeping and sceptile can easily survive honchkrow's sucker punch.

the acrobatics set is more powerful than any of his other sets in my eyes because with minimal support, it can come in for free, behind screens, and able to get up to at least +2 and sweep with impunity. even if it doesn't outright kill your opponent, if you can guarantee that you get up an SD or the unburden boost, you can assure yourself a kill on something, which makes it easy for other sweepers to clean up.
 
Yeah... Unburden Sceptile is nowhere near unstoppable. The lack of a Life Orb boost is a major detriment to its power. Also unfortunate is the fact that Unburden is a one-shot deal. If Sceptile gets phazed or forced out, it loses that boost.

In my opinion Sceptile functions more effectively as a Life Orb Special Attacker. Leaf Storm is great, and Giga Drain gives you a bit of useful longevity. It doesn't need setup to hurt things, and it gets good coverage if you're willing to work with Focus Blast's craptastic accuracy.

Also, Wynaut is nowhere near broken. Nails hit the nail on the head, if you'll pardon the pun.
 
EonADS said:
Yeah... Unburden Sceptile is nowhere near unstoppable. The lack of a Life Orb boost is a major detriment to its power. Also unfortunate is the fact that Unburden is a one-shot deal. If Sceptile gets phazed or forced out, it loses that boost.

In my opinion Sceptile functions more effectively as a Life Orb Special Attacker. Leaf Storm is great, and Giga Drain gives you a bit of useful longevity. It doesn't need setup to hurt things, and it gets good coverage if you're willing to work with Focus Blast's craptastic accuracy.

Also, Wynaut is nowhere near broken. Nails hit the nail on the head, if you'll pardon the pun.
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unstoppable is not a word i would use to describe it. it's simply very powerful with the right support under its belt. the issue i have with the lo special attacker is that it doesn't need set up to hurt things, but it is forced to switch out against a lot of them. and as you mentioned, focus blast is an unreliable way to get through clefable, munchlax, and steels that can tank sceptiles powerful STAB attacks. SD acrobatics is a very immediate threat that you have to deal with the instant it comes in or you will likely be swept.

the two sets are obviously very different and accommodate to different teams. sd acrobatics is very useful for pure offense where as the special attacker is more suitable to balanced styles.
 
^ True, but the LO set is also useful to offensive teams because it offers an immediate offensive presence as opposed to the Unburden SD set, which basically requires a Swords Dance and an Unburden boost to sweep. It really is down to personal preference, because I can see how Unburden Sceptile could be a major threat.

Also, holy crap Archeops. The thing is a beast with the Flight Gem Acrobatics set. I just swept half a team three matches straight with it.

EDIT: I think I've finally got a winning team. Finally managed to overcome Omicron's annoying Hail Team :D
 
^ Qwilfish absorbs T-Spikes and can lay Hazards of its own. Cryogonal can spin them away. IMO, the weak link in your team is Accelgor, so it should probably be the one to go. Also, isn't Glaceon Scarfed?
 
MoltenKyurem said:
and so does aggron with its weaknesses, also why do people underesitmate stunfisk? i dont get it, it actually fares fairly well. Whether as a lure or defensively, stunfisk also hard counters both varients of honchkrow, hp grass does shit. and sucker punch is useless vs it as it doesnt even come close to 2hkoing.
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Yeah, I've gotta do some testing for my Honchkrow analysis. I "noticed" Stunfisk a while ago, but it never occurred to me that it could go toe to toe with the Honch. A true pioneer of RU, Molk is.

Which are its best sets? I imagine that a bulky offensive RestTalk set with Discharge, Earth Power, or Scald would be its best shot. Electric and Ground aren't the best all-round attacking types, but the paralyze and burn chance would make it a bit more threatening.

Also, I don't think Wynaut is broken. It has 95 / 48 / 48 defenses, and sure, it can facilitate setup by trapping stuff, but it needs some kind of recovery support or it gets worn down too easily. It has worse defensive stats than Honchkrow! Offensive teams tear it to shreds, and considering how popular offensive playstyles are, Wynaut is near dead weight half the time. It kinda remind me of Whimsicott. Neither can take hits reliably.

I have a question. In its analysis, I saw that Archeops's uses Head Smash on its main set. Are people really using Head Smash?
 
Yes.

Both Stone Edge and Head Smash have uses by in they way I use it I have it break shit in tandem with Aggron, so simply I identify one key threat that needs to be removed and when Archeops gets a chance he takes it out. He doesn't need a Rock stab for general attacking option so I personally prefer Head Smash for that one shot kill power.

Additionally, it gives it an extremely powerful move to use when it drops into Deafeatist range, preventing it from being set up fodder, also killing itself to ensure that things like Gallda or Uxie can't set up on it.

I've also seen Stone Edge used on a late game sweeper so both have their uses.
 
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