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np: RU Stage 4 - Deck the Halls

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Braviary is a good answer, as is Gligar. Very few BU Gallade I've seen run Ice Punch, so they can break through without fear.

Bulky Scyther is also a good one. It can set up in tandem with Gallade and heal off damage with Roost. Gallade's Drain Punch is ineffective while Shadow Sneak is laughable without a few boosts behind it. Scyther will deal with Gallade well before it gets that far.

EDIT: Ok, my basic response to making Snover a suspect is officially "get this thing the fuck outta here" after the last hour on PO. So many people are running ShakeItUp's team or a variation of it that it's ridiculous. Atm it's not even fun to play. Hell, even Molk is using it.
 
Yeah, ludicolo and honchrow are the next to go. I am really happy that porygon z is staying, he's my favorite special sweeper... plus CBZ is pretty freaking awesome, but I only think he stayed because of how easily he can be revenged...
 
Honchkrow is far from broken in RU. It's quite slow, and having to rely on Sucker Punch to take out faster opponents isn't that great. Honchkrow is slaughtered by many common attacking types, and the Moxie variants are completely walled by Steel-types. In addition, I honestly have not seen that many Honchkrow in battles lately, and I suppose that proves my point.
 
Almost everyone relevant probably knows that I'm deeeply intrenched into 'do not ban and safety first' camp, but I hope other people will agree with me on this one: Honchkrow isn't going anywhere. It has two hard counters if you're lazy to play around it, and multiple more checks if we're looking at the moxie set only. And please please please: put Substitute on your offensive teams! And if you don't run a Flying-resist, of course you can't switch into a Brave Bird. You not bothering to run a flying resist =/= broken. If you build teams like that you'll get into trouble by a friggin Dodrio (or Scarf Braviary more realistically.)

And EonADS, I'll have to disagree on 'hey people are spamming this way too much' = not fun to play = broken. By that logic, usage = broken which does not make any sense at all. I think I talked about the team itself already somewhere, so meh.

/beat over dead horse x2
 
EonADS said:
Hell, even Molk is using it.
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lolwut, why mention me in particular?

well ive been using many variations of this team, and i personally still think snover is broken for the support it provides to make game-breaking teams.

snover hits surprisingly hard with blizzard+ice shard+hail damage, ive usually been able to score at least 1 KO a match with him.

i also tried out a regualar hail team with subseed snover on it, lets just say i got high on the ladder quick due to ragequits.

imo snover is a good pokemon in its own right and deserves Bl2 status, the fact that it gives so many pokemon support to make them even VIABLE (rotom-f, glaceon, walrein). due to abilites such as ice body and the blizzard accuracy bonus.

imo snover has hippowdon syndrome, decent pokemon in its own right, provides WAYYYY to much support to a lot of pokemon in the metagame.
 
I agree with Molk that snover has Hippodown syndrome. Even without the surge of Endeavor teams Snover would be an amazing supporter, but this sudden surge in solosis is forcing some less than steller team choices to be made purely to combat the team.

Ok now off that topic and onto an amazing Pokemon that needs to be abused before it moves up. Krookodile, not the scarf set but a Sub LO set. I began using it today and 5-0'd a team every few matches, it hits with so much power but has enough speed to still revenge certain threats. It has been absolutely amazing and I wish more people had started using it sooner(I forget who it was who I first saw using it last round)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that Krook was going to UU...

anyway a lot of lesser used sets (such as LO Krook) on common 'mons seem really good because they open up new options, but they often close the niche that was there with the primary set. Krookodile can hit a lot of the tier at least neutrally with EQ and of course Stone Edge provides good coverage. Scarf Krook can even revenge many scarf users in RU which is fairly important imo. (typh and primeape are probably the only notable scarf users above 92 base speed) also finishing off +1 lilli (and some others) is nice.

Not saying LO Krook isn't good, it certainly is (especially with an ability like moxie), but Scarf is also very good

Also, I know Texas and others better and more wise than me have said it, but I guess its worth repeating. If you think something is good, actually use it for a while... you'll learn what it's counters are really fast.

I've used many Honchkrow varieties (scarf moxie, LO moxie, mix) and he has counters for sure. He can fall pretty easy to good opponents and I even run pursuit over roost sometimes to take out fast substitute users and as utility on predicted switches.

There's a reason people run steel types and intimidate users in OU; it's called Dragon STAB. If you don't have those, you're probably not going far in OU. Same goes for Flying STAB in RU, it's not that hard to fit a resist on a team.
 
Thx for the suggestions guys!

Moltres,Braviary and Scyther are all very nice options for offensive teams.

Agreeing with all the others that say Honchkrow is not broken!It isn't!
Has many checks and enough counters! I have an offensive team,and when i build it,i didn't even have Honchkrow in my mind,yet it got covered.

Another poke that i want to try is Swellow! I am using a Volt-Turn team and i think that he will be a beast once rock and steel types are gone!
Any experience with him?
 
Swellow with Magneton is amazing, not only do they provide the Volt-Turn combo, Swellow is immune to Ground while Magneton takes Electric and Ice attacks. On top of that, Magneton can remove the Steel types that trouble Swellow.
 
happy endorphins said:
Swellow with Magneton is amazing, not only do they provide the Volt-Turn combo, Swellow is immune to Ground while Magneton takes Electric and Ice attacks. On top of that, Magneton can remove the Steel types that trouble Swellow.
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Hmm I must be sure to try it out. Also Lanturn is an awesome Pokemon to use in RU. It makes the perfect Tank with awesome coverage, cool typing and bulk. Sure it faces competition from Slowking but Slowking doesnt have that boos coverage, Volt Switch, ability to beat Rotom, and a host of other cool stuff. Gligar makes an awesome partner to Lanturn as well.
 
I've found with lanturn that it just dies too quickly for my taste. It's almost like swampert tbh; two amazing stabs, a bunch of bulk, good enough attacking stats, and some useful support moves, however it's easily worn down by entry hazards and the lack of recovery is crippling. Rest talk stabs defeats the purpose of why I'd want to use lanturn in the first place (the great stabs, twave, and heal bell). It should be used, and it's not bad, but it's not anywhere near as good as Slowking (regenerator is amazing!)
 
Amarillo said:
And EonADS, I'll have to disagree on 'hey people are spamming this way too much' = not fun to play = broken. By that logic, usage = broken which does not make any sense at all. I think I talked about the team itself already somewhere, so meh.
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In my opinion, it's not so much "usage = broken" as it is "overcentralization = broken". With so many people running that team, you have to run ways to "counter" it or you won't get anywhere. The best I managed without a "counter" strategy was a 1-0 loss against Molk and the same against one of ShakeItUp's alts a while back, and I'm a fair bit better than decent at RU if I can toot my own horn a bit. The problem with that is that with a "counter" strategy, you usually have to make less-than-stellar team choices and you get filleted by other kinds of teams. Raseri hit the nail on the head, really.

The main problem with the team isn't so much Snover itself as it is Solosis + Duosion + hail support. Snover is just the catalyst, take it away and the team is a hundred times less threatening. Same thing with every other type of team that Snover supports. That's not to say that Snover itself isn't a good Pokemon; quite the opposite really, but the main problem is the support it provides and not Snover itself.


Gotta agree with Nails about Lanturn. My other problem with it is the Ground weakness. Bulky waters are usually used to combat Ground-types, and I find constant annoyance in being unable to do this with Lanturn. Slowking is much better anyway, Regenerator + Lefties + Slack Off is a metric ton of recovery to abuse (89.25% over two turns for one turn of damage is slightly ridiculous). If it had slightly higher defenses it'd be broken or at least suspect.
 
now that snow warning is officially banned from UU, we will not have to worry about that horrible team anymore. but there is something that concerns me.

Cress................

at this rate it may move back down to RU, imo it was one of the most broken things in the tier, thoughts?
 
Apparently Snow Warning has just been banned from UU, so that problem has been solved for us, like it or not (I don't).

Go away ninjas.
 
Hmmmm ..... I wasn't around when Cresselia was RU, but from a stall perspective, I certainly wouldn't use it because it doesn't provide enough team support. If it does drop though, I can see why the massive bulk could be troublesome for a balanced team though.
 
inb4 avalance of hailban posts.

Tbh I'm glad that Hail is banned, weather in general has never been my favorite playstyle unless other types of weather can work equally against it *looks at OU and Ubers*. That said, this is RU. Why do we care?

...oh right, Cresselia might drop back down now. Fuuuuuuu- No. Just no. Sigilyph is going to be bad enough, but Cress? I hope not.

EDIT: Totally did not get that Snow Warning is now gone from RU too. Holy shit, YES. Christmas came early this year!
 
Good News Everyone!

farnsworth.jpg


Well, this'll be interesting that's for sure, have fun with the new metagame guys!

Also why are you guys saying that Cress will fall back down? Sure it served an important role in hail teams as a Fighting-type resist, but one of the main things that was holding it back there was the fact that its main form of recovery, Moonlight, was nerfed in hail.

If she does fall back down she probably won't be here for long I can tell you that much lol.
 
If Sigilyph and Cresselia both drop down to this, I think that Sigilyph will be by far the bigger threat with a superior ability and Roost (which has more PP than Moonlight and isn't dependent upon weather) and more reliable than Rest.
 
Sigilyph in RU could be pretty awesome. Things like Honchkrow aren't going to like being effortlessly burned by Psycho Shift.
 
EonADS said:
In my opinion, it's not so much "usage = broken" as it is "overcentralization = broken". With so many people running that team, you have to run ways to "counter" it or you won't get anywhere.
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Doesn't that hold true for any threat? You have to run ways to counter it or you won't get anywhere. Don't carry a flying resist, and get shown up by Honchkrow, etc. Sorry for not explicitly stating my logic on my earlier post, but I was thinking somewhere along the lines of this: If Nails, Windsong, other good battlers, etc. decide to run around with a spike-stacking Sharpedo abuse team, then does Sharpedo become broken? With good enough play, you can get around priority pretty easily unless they have a bunch (and remember, bunch of priority moves get past the endeavor thing as well.) Otherwise, this forces teams to run Poliwrath / Ferroseed which is a subpar decision for a lot of teams, not to mention over-preparing and restrictive. Now, you've said before that Sharpedo isn't broken. Just because a lot of good people use them, suddenly by your logic it became broken! Not that any of this matters now that the core strategy, Hail, got banned. If you have anything to say anything about my logic, do so over pm so that we don't clog the thread about a threat that no longer exists.

Now that's over with, I was certainly not unhappy that Hail got banned. I'm kinda iffy because IMO Hail and Porygon-Z were both equally strong, yet Porygon-Z didn't get the boot because people were using inferior sets (almost everyone ran the scarfer). Well, now that everything is changing, we'll have to look forward to the january metagame! Certainly with hail banned we may see a harsh drop in the usage of Slowking, and most definitely Lanturn. You guys were saying how lanturn's lack of recovery sucks very much, but Lanturn's biggest niche was saying screw you to BlizzSpam and especially Rotom-F, but there's that.
 
Sent the PM as asked.

Amarillo said:
Now that's over with, I was certainly not unhappy that Hail got banned. I'm kinda iffy because IMO Hail and Porygon-Z were both equally strong, yet Porygon-Z didn't get the boot because people were using inferior sets (almost everyone ran the scarfer).
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I agree on the Scarf set being inferior; it really just lacks the necessary power. Tbh though, Porygon-Z's biggest problem is that every one of its standard sets runs the same three offensive moves. It's incredibly predictable and very easy to outmanuver with timely switching. The frailty and utter lack of defensive typing doesn't help matters.

Now that Hail is gone, I don't really have any problems with the current meta.
 
Both P-Z and Honch are probably two of the most powerful offensive presences in the tier, specially and physically, respectively. (holy shit tongue twister). With hail gone, I doubt pokemon such as Glaceon will be used anymore, unfortunately. And yes, I can see Lanturn's usage going down, as its main niche was cockblocking most hail teams. What I'm seeing more of these days is weather, both Sun and Rain. Rain has abusers such as Omastar, Kabutops, and Ludicolo, while Sun has Typhlosion, Victreebel, Sawsbuck, and Lilligant. I can definitely see weather being a dominant force in the RU metagame, now that hail has (finally) been banned.

Also, screw that stupid F.E.A.R / Duosion solosis shit
 
How is Aggron doing in the metagame? I imagine being a top tier Moxie Krow and Swellow check still gives him a niche in the metagame right?
 
PK!!!!!!! (you're back!)

Honchkrow usage has surprisingly dropped. IDK if people stopped using it on the round we were not allowed to ban it, or people just started to adapt to it. Oh, and somehow the mr. setup bait Claydol is top used mon, and Gligar / Qwilfish / Uxie core became suddenly popular. All that led to his usage dropping pretty hard, but he always pulls his weight.
 
I hate to say it, but RU is now a metagame where things such as ShakeItUp's team and Rain offense are not only viable, but dominating. I just faced a team that used Uxie to set up Rain Dance and Stealth Rock with the other 5 Pokemon very good in rain. Things like Ludicolo and Omastar are ridiculous under rain, with only bulky Grasses and bulky Waters to deal with them. The team also used Yawn and Hypnosis to completely cripple any of those aforementioned counters.
 
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