Announcement np: SS OU Suspect Process, Round 9 - Old Town Road

[hmsa2012]

Managed to get reqs for this suspect test, and after seeing the arguments and playing against horse, I will be voting no ban. Now before I get mauled, hear me out.

With the checks and counters mentioned from the pro ban side, I understand why Spectrier is seen as a mon that restricts teambuilding as you "need" to have one to not lose at team preview. The issue I have which such arguments is that the majority of these pokemon are viable in OU because they perform outside of being a check/counter. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Hydreigon have been around since the beginning of the metagame, and were instantly better once Urshifu was gone. If Spectrier gets banned, I predict that these mons will still be around because they are good in fullfilling their team roles. It isn't a one-and-done deal, like Buzzwole was for Urshifu. Defensive Hydreigon isn't a unique case as it has been explored in previous gens as "check" for offensive threats in the past. With the Blissey argument, I don't see how Horse can beat it 1v1 since its can't do much even if Spectrier is running a Sub set. Blissey can stay in and either PP stall it or just Teleport out and switch back in to waste horse's moves. Specs Horse gets walled to death and can be played around without much loss.

Don't see it enough to warrant a ban tbh.

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

No, Spectrier is nothing like Urshifu. Urshifu hits like a Rampardos out the gate without people needing to make arguments that it burned something earlier in the battle so Hex will do 2x damage. Normal is immune to Ghost (whether its Shadow Ball or Hex), whereas nothing is immune to Dark. Urshifu also has other attacks which force you to play a guessing game, whereas if you go into your Ghost counter all Spectrier can do is burn it - and if it's a special attacker like Hydreigon it won't care and you just lost a ton of momentum. Aurora Veil/Light Screen turn 1 can also deal with Spectrier because its attacks aren't guaranteed crits. You people are really on here just saying whatever. Just because my posts aren't as eloquently written or I throw in a couples of "lols" here and there doesn't give what I'm saying any less weight. Anyway based on all these responses Spectrier is most likely getting banned which I find surprising because it isn't banworthy in my eyes

P.S. I want to add that I know I'm mentioning Hydreigon a lot, but even if you use Ttar or Mandi and they get burned, so what? They are burned. Cool. Spectrier still can't do anything to them, so they still successfully counter it, while burned. Spectrier is not "over-centralizing" unless you people just outright refuse to run Dark-types, Normal-types, or Blissey. In that case, you are just getting steamrolled by the ghost horse because your team sucks.

I really should've responded to this earlier, but having a Dark type or Normal type doesn't mean you can go "problem solved" in Spectrier's case, especially because this is a 6 vs 6 game, and both are weak against Fighting - one of the best offensive types (there's also this little tidbit about not knowing your opponent's set until it actually uses its moves). What's more, Blissey can't do anything back to the horse without Shadow Ball, which she has no reason to use otherwise (fun fact, there is a Spectrier set that uses Blissey, even with Shadow Ball, as setup fodder; also, Spectrier has the utility moves to shut Blissey down). Also, Aurora Veil requires hail to be up, which means any non-Ice types you have are taking damage, and Tyranitar and Mandibuzz don't appreciate being burned, as it renders them practically useless.

 

[AquaVanilla]

Managed to get reqs for this suspect test, and after seeing the arguments and playing against horse, I will be voting no ban. Now before I get mauled, hear me out.

With the checks and counters mentioned from the pro ban side, I understand why Spectrier is seen as a mon that restricts teambuilding as you "need" to have one to not lose at team preview. The issue I have which such arguments is that the majority of these pokemon are viable in OU because they perform outside of being a check/counter. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Hydreigon have been around since the beginning of the metagame, and were instantly better once Urshifu was gone. If Spectrier gets banned, I predict that these mons will still be around because they are good in fullfilling their team roles. It isn't a one-and-done deal, like Buzzwole was for Urshifu. Defensive Hydreigon isn't a unique case as it has been explored in previous gens as "check" for offensive threats in the past. With the Blissey argument, I don't see how Horse can beat it 1v1 since its can't do much even if Spectrier is running a Sub set. Blissey can stay in and either PP stall it or just Teleport out and switch back in to waste horse's moves. Specs Horse gets walled to death and can be played around without much loss.

Don't see it enough to warrant a ban tbh.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense at all, how does any of this prove that it's not banworthy? All you listed was saying defensive hydra was a thing back then and saying blissey beats it. Nobody is gonna use shit ass defensive hydra anymore when spectrier gets banned because it will do nothing at all in a game, mandi will fall a lot of in usage, also spectrier can beat blissey with taunt and shut it down or moves like dark pulse. This makes no sense at all.

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

With the checks and counters mentioned from the pro ban side, I understand why Spectrier is seen as a mon that restricts teambuilding as you "need" to have one to not lose at team preview. The issue I have which such arguments is that the majority of these pokemon are viable in OU because they perform outside of being a check/counter. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Hydreigon have been around since the beginning of the metagame, and were instantly better once Urshifu was gone. If Spectrier gets banned, I predict that these mons will still be around because they are good in fullfilling their team roles. It isn't a one-and-done deal, like Buzzwole was for Urshifu. Defensive Hydreigon isn't a unique case as it has been explored in previous gens as "check" for offensive threats in the past. With the Blissey argument, I don't see how Horse can beat it 1v1 since its can't do much even if Spectrier is running a Sub set. Blissey can stay in and either PP stall it or just Teleport out and switch back in to waste horse's moves. Specs Horse gets walled to death and can be played around without much loss.

You don't see a problem with the fact that Blissey can't do anything other than watch Spectrier stack up the Calm Minds? And then there's this...

+6 172 SpA Spectrier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 276-325 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Better hope Blissey doesn't get flinched. Also, with Blissey being as passive as she is, Taunt and Disable easily render her useless. Plus, Mandibuzz and Tyranitar hate being burned, and the latter in particular is easily pressured due to having no recovery aside from the easily exploitable Rest.

 

[hmsa2012]

Your argument makes absolutely no sense at all, how does any of this prove that it's not banworthy? All you listed was saying defensive hydra was a thing back then and saying blissey beats it. Nobody is gonna use shit ass defensive hydra anymore when spectrier gets banned because it will do nothing at all in a game, mandi will fall a lot of in usage, also spectrier can beat blissey with taunt and shut it down or moves like dark pulse. This makes no sense at all.

Manidbuzz falling in usage is simply not true. It still checks offensive threats in Rillaboom, Cinderace and certain variations of Dragapult. The argument I'm making is that mons like Mandibuzz do more than just check one mon, and in this case it does.

 

[hmsa2012]

You don't see a problem with the fact that Blissey can't do anything other than watch Spectrier stack up the Calm Minds? And then there's this...

+6 172 SpA Spectrier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 276-325 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Better hope Blissey doesn't get flinched. Also, with Blissey being as passive as she is, Taunt and Disable easily render her useless. Plus, Mandibuzz and Tyranitar hate being burned, and the latter in particular is easily pressured due to having no recovery aside from the easily exploitable Rest.

But whats the move set you're referring to? You mentioned Dark Pulse and Calm Mind, if you running Taunt and Disable, then you lose out on Ghost SPAM and Will-o-Wisp. Never really ran into Spectrier with Dark Pulse outside of specs or even the rare scarf because Ghost spamming is better and overall effective. Behind a sub and dark pulse maybe, but you're sacrificing a moveslot for just one mon.

The arugment I'm making is going against "I have to run x or y JUST TO CHECK/COUNTER" when those mons do more than just that.

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

But whats the move set you're referring to? You mentioned Dark Pulse and Calm Mind, if you running Taunt and Disable, then you lose out on Ghost SPAM and Will-o-Wisp. Never really ran into Spectrier with Dark Pulse outside of specs or even the rare scarf because Ghost spamming is better and overall effective. Behind a sub and dark pulse maybe, but you're sacrificing a moveslot for just one mon.

The arugment I'm making is going against "I have to run x or y JUST TO CHECK/COUNTER" when those mons do more than just that.

I didn't say it was running both of Taunt and Disable - the thing is, either one of those alone turns her into setup fodder. Also, unless she runs Shadow Ball, which isn't exactly going to scare Spectrier off the field (this is a serious red flag in my book), she can only stand there ineffectually....

0 SpA Blissey Shadow Ball vs. 112 HP / 20 SpD Spectrier: 108-128 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
If Spectrier has already used Calm Mind, then the sub needs two hits to break. Again, I consider it rather telling that a so-called counter instead winds up being setup fodder. Also, it goes beyond "I need those mons just to check/counter it" into "I need those mons just to TRY to check/counter it" because even those mons can fail to stop it.

 

[Faless__]

The issue I have which such arguments is that the majority of these pokemon are viable in OU because they perform outside of being a check/counter. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Hydreigon have been around since the beginning of the metagame, and were instantly better once Urshifu was gone.

Yes, they were, but Tyranitar's usefulness has greatly diminished as it can't perform as anything as a sand setter and Spectrier check that gets worn down and doesn't check anything notable, plus having a bad typing unlike the superior sand setter in Hippowdon, Mandibuzz loses to 80% of the things it's supposed to check (including Spectrier) except maybe Dragapult, Blissey is setup fodder if not running Shadow Ball, which means it isn't running Toxic/Thunder Wave, rendering it useless against switchins, and defensive Hydreigon is awful, and made only for this specific mon and loses to the Specs set. Their problems add up when you consider that all of them don't check it reliably when there's always a variation that can beat them.

If Spectrier gets banned, I predict that these mons will still be around because they are good in fullfilling their team roles.

Their "team roles", in the case of everything but Blissey, the single good mon listed, are checking Spectrier suboptimally by sacrifing EV Spreads/Moveslots/not being a momentum sink to win to it and being super soft and shaky Checks to other stuff.

It still checks offensive threats in Rillaboom, Cinderace and certain variations of Dragapult.

Cinderace? Sure, pray for Gunk Shot to not poison you like it does to the other million "checks" it has. Rillaboom knocks off heavy duty boots and it isn't a consistent switchin anymore, and Dragapult can cripple it with Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp for a teammate that shares Mandi as a check (E.g. Kartana) to power through it. That without mentioning Mandibuzz being an awful defogger that loses to most if not all rockers.

With the Blissey argument, I don't see how Horse can beat it 1v1 since its can't do much even if Spectrier is running a Sub set. Blissey can stay in and either PP stall it or just Teleport out and switch back in to waste horse's moves.

And once teleport gets stalled it loses, also if the horse is running Will-O-Wisp it'll be forced to waste heals that it can use in other periods of the game, while doing nothing to it. PP stalling to beat Spectrier is a thing, sure, but it also severely hurts Blissey itself.

Defensive Hydreigon isn't a unique case as it has been explored in previous gens as "check" for offensive threats in the past.

It hasn't, as far as I'm concerned there was no defensive Hydreigon in any gen apart from this one, not even to check Ash-Greninja in USUM.

 

[YeetYolk07]

Manidbuzz falling in usage is simply not true. It still checks offensive threats in Rillaboom, Cinderace and certain variations of Dragapult. The argument I'm making is that mons like Mandibuzz do more than just check one mon, and in this case it does.

I see a lot of issues with that statement. First off, it can't check cinderace. Rillaboom carries knock off most of the time and with rocks it really doesn't become a reliable check to rillaboom. And dragapult... eh I guess. It's job however is done better by both Zapdos and Corviknight. Zapdos provides immediate breaking power, as well as the ability to cripple rillaboom for the rest of the battle. Not only that, but it can be ran offensively in rain thanks to it's good special attack and speed stat. Corviknight is a special kind of flier. It's a flying type that doesn't have to run boots. Meaning that it is a better rillaboom check as it can't be hurt too much by switching into rocks. Also, allowing it to run leftovers for extra health, but rocky helmet to punish U-turn. Not only that, but it can't be crippled by poison, which really screws up it's defensive role. It can also become a dangerous sweeper if you can't break it. While mandibuzz has its merits, it's main reason of usage is spectrier. Everything it does is done better by the other fliers, but spectrier presence means that usually mandibuzz is the better defogging option in the long run. Just like how hippo was the main sand setter before spectrier came along and made it mandatory for sand to run Ttar as the main setter.

 

[658Greninja]

Manidbuzz falling in usage is simply not true. It still checks offensive threats in Rillaboom, Cinderace and certain variations of Dragapult. The argument I'm making is that mons like Mandibuzz do more than just check one mon, and in this case it does.

Mandibuzz doesn’t even beat any of Spect’s sets anyways unless your running that shitty Whirlwind set. Mandi gets burnt and A. Can’t break the sub or B. Is 2HKOd by Hex after chip. Claiming Mandi counters Spect is a false statement. As for the other three. Blissey can easily take on Specs sets and even Sub-Cm, but there is a few problems. Blissey needs to have enough pp to stall out Spect which in a vacuum is doable, however not as likely in the long game as Blissey is forced to burn Teleports, STosses, and Soft-Boileds all while the opponent can just save Spectrier for late game, and two..Being forced to Port Blissey to say..Slowbro or Clef and back is unnatural in the grand scheme of things, which is another issue with Spect. Ttar gets worn down quickly by constant chip and burns from Spect. If it opts to run Rest it’ll not only become setup fodder, but you give up other options that might be more useful in a Spectrier-less metagame like Toxic/Twave, Rock Blast, EQ, or even Ice Beam. Hydreigon has a small chance of getting 2HKOd by Specs Spectrier’s Hex after chip and being burnt. It also doesn’t OHKO Spectrier with Dpulse so it is forced to burn Roost pp. Everything else is either difficult to splash on teams, not very viable, or m fucking Wooloo. I’ve shown this replay before, but it’s the best example on why this suspect test is a thing.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-537216

Talah had both Mandi and Pult which in theory should be enough to keep Spect in check. However when Xray brings in Spect on a burnt Ferro (which isn’t an uncommon scenario), he is able to setup a CM in front of Mandi cause if Mandi is burnt it is unable to break the sub. Furthermore, at +1, Specs Pult is not able to kill Spect with Shadow Ball. Even though Spect doesn’t outright sweep the team, it opens up for Xray’s Sub-SD Chomp. It’s the same thing as Urshifu where even with PexClef on the team you still get screwed over by BU.

Now that I explained why Bliss, Ttar, Hydreigon, and Mandi simply aren’t enough. Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame? Before you say Goon, it gets worn down quickly and is hard to splash on teams

 

[GaryGaryGary]

But whats the move set you're referring to? You mentioned Dark Pulse and Calm Mind, if you running Taunt and Disable, then you lose out on Ghost SPAM and Will-o-Wisp. Never really ran into Spectrier with Dark Pulse outside of specs or even the rare scarf because Ghost spamming is better and overall effective. Behind a sub and dark pulse maybe, but you're sacrificing a moveslot for just one mon.

The arugment I'm making is going against "I have to run x or y JUST TO CHECK/COUNTER" when those mons do more than just that.

1.) 4MSS is such a weird argument. Until you have witnessed the opponent's moveset, you have no clear way of knowing Spectrier's moves. So you have to take a guess. This goes for every pokemon, but as one as dangerously fast and strong as she, one wrong guess and it's "GG"

2.) Just because Defensive Hydreigon was effective past gens, doesn't mean its good now. Dreigon's in a meta where you have fast games and the tier is filled with aggressive mons, so he would like to be aggressive as well. Giving up that just to cover one Pokemon is absurd.

3.) How does Snarl/Roost Hydreigon gonna fair against other mons? Other Dragon and Fighting Types, along with Clef, Mag, And Ace means that this build has nothing to help himself and other teammates at all. All you have is Budget Mandi. Speaking of my Crood Girl, she can't do much either. She commonly runs Foul Play, but that doesn't work with Spectrier. Mandi has to run double Dark moves if she wants to tackle Spec. Not good since she wants Roost, Defog, and U-turn. Giving up one of these means you lose: self-reliant healing, momentum giving, and hazard removal.

 

[sunbhie]

Mandibuzz doesn’t even beat any of Spect’s sets anyways unless your running that shitty Whirlwind set. Mandi gets burnt and A. Can’t break the sub or B. Is 2HKOd by Hex after chip. Claiming Mandi counters Spect is a false statement. As for the other three. Blissey can easily take on Specs sets and even Sub-Cm, but there is a few problems. Blissey needs to have enough pp to stall out Spect which in a vacuum is doable, however not as likely in the long game as Blissey is forced to burn Teleports, STosses, and Soft-Boileds all while the opponent can just save Spectrier for late game, and two..Being forced to Port Blissey to say..Slowbro or Clef and back is unnatural in the grand scheme of things, which is another issue with Spect. Ttar gets worn down quickly by constant chip and burns from Spect. If it opts to run Rest it’ll not only become setup fodder, but you give up other options that might be more useful in a Spectrier-less metagame like Toxic/Twave, Rock Blast, EQ, or even Ice Beam. Hydreigon has a small chance of getting 2HKOd by Specs Spectrier’s Hex after chip and being burnt. It also doesn’t OHKO Spectrier with Dpulse so it is forced to burn Roost pp. Everything else is either difficult to splash on teams, not very viable, or m fucking Wooloo. I’ve shown this replay before, but it’s the best example on why this suspect test is a thing.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-537216

Talah had both Mandi and Pult which in theory should be enough to keep Spect in check. However when Xray brings in Spect on a burnt Ferro (which isn’t an uncommon scenario), he is able to setup a CM in front of Mandi cause if Mandi is burnt it is unable to break the sub. Furthermore, at +1, Specs Pult is not able to kill Spect with Shadow Ball. Even though Spect doesn’t outright sweep the team, it opens up for Xray’s Sub-SD Chomp. It’s the same thing as Urshifu where even with PexClef on the team you still get screwed over by BU.

Now that I explained why Bliss, Ttar, Hydreigon, and Mandi simply aren’t enough. Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame? Before you say Goon, it gets worn down quickly and is hard to splash on teams

Mandibuzz can always break through spect substitute with knock off, one of the most common and best utility moves in the game.

>Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame?

Name one counter that beats both choice specs and shift gear magearna...you can't (even though we have obstagoon and heliosk for spectrier). You won't have something that can always counter every pokemon's sets, that doesn't mean a pokemon is broken.

 

[658Greninja]

Mandibuzz can always break through spect substitute with knock off, one of the most common and best utility moves in the game.

>Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame?

Name one counter that beats both choice specs and shift gear magearna...you can't (even though we have obstagoon and heliosk for spectrier). You won't have something that can always counter every pokemon's sets, that doesn't mean a pokemon is broken.

Firstly did you see the replay with Spectrier setting up on Mandi and getting a kill off it? Secondly, Knock Off isn’t a bad move, but its hard to fit on Mandi since if you give up Foul Play for Knock Off, you lose the ability to check SD Kart, Rilla, Lando, and the occasional BD Azu. If you give up U-Turn for Knock Off, you lose momentum for yourself and become a sitting duck (vulture).

I’m not gonna talk about Mag in here cause this is a thread about Spect’s potentially banworthy status, not Mag’s.

I already said why Goon isn’t a consistent counter. As for Heliolisk. I asked for counters to Spectrier that are metagame relevant. Lisk is by all means, unviable and/or outclassed in the current metagame. We have more superior electrics like Zeraora and Koko who do it’s job much better as a pivot who doesn’t fucking die to NP Torn. Spectrier centralizes the metagame in a similar way to when Vish was in the tier. It had a counter in Toad and Bunker Pex. If it had counters, why was it banned?..Simple. It forced the metagame into ClefCorvToad and Friends, causing limiting teambuilding and having to slap Toad on every team in fear of being 6-0d by it. I’m not arguing that Spect doesn’t has counters, I’m arguing that Spect centralizes the metagame by limiting teambuilding and forcing unnatural games. Zygarde and KyuB forced you to run Buzzwole on your team, Mosa and Urshifu forced ClefPex on every team. If Spect leaves it’ll free up team slots and spark more innovation in the metagame. Previously overshadowed mons like Gengar can have a chance to be meta relevant again.

 

[GaryGaryGary]

Mandibuzz can always break through spect substitute with knock off, one of the most common and best utility moves in the game.

>Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame?

Name one counter that beats both choice specs and shift gear magearna...you can't (even though we have obstagoon and heliosk for spectrier). You won't have something that can always counter every pokemon's sets, that doesn't mean a pokemon is broken.

Not every Pokemon can counter every Pokemon, but the point of checks and counters is that Pokemon A can't really accomplish a goal without Pokemon B stopping Pokemon A.

Spectrier literally can break through its checks with minimum effort through status, PP stalling, Set-Up moves, and Strong Ghost Moves/Dark Pulse/Mud Shot. No Dark or Normal types can handle Specs without one of these problems coming up.

 

[Faless__]

Mandibuzz can always break through spect substitute with knock off, one of the most common and best utility moves in the game.

That means Mandibuzz is forced to run Knock Off, reducing it to be a momentum sink against opposing teams, and if you knock Spectrier's Leftovers off then it doesn't break Substitute while burned, making the "can always break through" argument meaningless.

Name one counter that beats both choice specs and shift gear magearna...you can't (even though we have obstagoon and heliosk for spectrier). You won't have something that can always counter every pokemon's sets, that doesn't mean a pokemon is broken.

It depends on the variation, the thing is you're comparing Spectrier to Magearna that A. has checks that actually beat them and are good outside of beating it and B. is way easier to revenge kill due to its poor speed tier. Also naming "Heliosk", which I'm assuming is Heliolisk, a pokemon that is never seen. gets stalled out by spectrier and is overall awful, and Obstagoon, that loses to sub disable due to burn chip and having to re enter to knock Dpectrier off, is kind of a bad argument, this post is just koffing laugh reaction bait.

 

[Levant Mir Celestia]

Mandibuzz can always break through spect substitute with knock off, one of the most common and best utility moves in the game.

>Now give me one Spectrier counter that beats both Sub-CM and Specs while being a solid threat in the metagame?

Name one counter that beats both choice specs and shift gear magearna...you can't (even though we have obstagoon and heliosk for spectrier). You won't have something that can always counter every pokemon's sets, that doesn't mean a pokemon is broken.

If you think Mandibuzz is so great against Spectrier, this replay will be a shock to you:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-535656
Spoiler alert: Spectrier gives Mandibuzz a hard time. I ain't gonna say anything about Magearna because it's irrelevant to this thread, but Obstagoon and Heliolisk are not good in this metagame.

 

[Finchinator]

I'm gonna take my horse to the old town vote, I'm gonna refresh 'til I can't no more

 

[R8]

Managed to get reqs for this suspect test, and after seeing the arguments and playing against horse, I will be voting no ban. Now before I get mauled, hear me out.

With the checks and counters mentioned from the pro ban side, I understand why Spectrier is seen as a mon that restricts teambuilding as you "need" to have one to not lose at team preview. The issue I have which such arguments is that the majority of these pokemon are viable in OU because they perform outside of being a check/counter. Mandibuzz, Tyranitar, Blissey, and Hydreigon have been around since the beginning of the metagame, and were instantly better once Urshifu was gone. If Spectrier gets banned, I predict that these mons will still be around because they are good in fullfilling their team roles. It isn't a one-and-done deal, like Buzzwole was for Urshifu. Defensive Hydreigon isn't a unique case as it has been explored in previous gens as "check" for offensive threats in the past. With the Blissey argument, I don't see how Horse can beat it 1v1 since its can't do much even if Spectrier is running a Sub set. Blissey can stay in and either PP stall it or just Teleport out and switch back in to waste horse's moves. Specs Horse gets walled to death and can be played around without much loss.

Don't see it enough to warrant a ban tbh.

You need those checks in almost every team and you still can lose because everything not called rest ttar can lose to a common spectrier set.
The CM set is a good example of that: stuff like specs Pult, bliss, or foul play mandibuzz can lose to that one.
The fact that Spectrier is still one of the best offensive threats around despite people run dedicated counters like the trash mons spdef drei or mandibuzz speaks how broken that mon is. I mean even mons that are used solely to counter the ghost horse can die to it, if that's not the definition of broken i don't know what is it.

 

[Finchinator]

I'm gonna take my horse to...Ubers

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-suspect-process-round-9-voting.3677736/#post-8744580