wdym seperate posts I'm just responding to some peoplethis did not need to be three separate posts, please try to keep things concise so the thread as a whole can be easier to read for newer players.
wdym seperate posts I'm just responding to some peoplethis did not need to be three separate posts, please try to keep things concise so the thread as a whole can be easier to read for newer players.
Correct, and responding is fine, but let me show you somethingwdym seperate posts I'm just responding to some people
After seeing Rabia video, my suggestion is running EQ over Earth Power with a -speed nature to not lose to CM Jolteon. If they tera with him (spoiler: they always do bc unmon has no coverage) you do 13% after 1 CM and Jolteon can go to +6/+6 and sweep you whith ease
I am guilty of using this a lot. It compresses many roles on offenses and gives me Future Sight which I am a fiend for. It is actually a really solid defensive piece and although it is mid in the grand scheme of things I feel for the cash and I like the utility Future Sight+Protect gives along with spikes. Worth a tryWhiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Protect
- Earth Power
- Spikes
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Uses | Usage % | Win % +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Sandaconda | 21 | 52.50% | 52.38% |
| 1 | Passimian | 21 | 52.50% | 42.86% |
| 3 | Goodra | 16 | 40.00% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Oricorio-Pom-Pom | 15 | 37.50% | 46.67% |
| 5 | Vaporeon | 12 | 30.00% | 66.67% |
| 5 | Copperajah | 12 | 30.00% | 58.33% |
| 7 | Muk | 11 | 27.50% | 45.45% |
| 8 | Chansey | 8 | 20.00% | 75.00% |
| 8 | Drifblim | 8 | 20.00% | 75.00% |
| 8 | Zoroark | 8 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Umbreon | 6 | 15.00% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Crabominable | 6 | 15.00% | 33.33% |
| 13 | Bruxish | 5 | 12.50% | 80.00% |
| 13 | Jolteon | 5 | 12.50% | 40.00% |
| 15 | Toxicroak | 4 | 10.00% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Scyther | 4 | 10.00% | 75.00% |
| 15 | Dudunsparce | 4 | 10.00% | 50.00% |
| 15 | Vespiquen | 4 | 10.00% | 50.00% |
| 15 | Frosmoth | 4 | 10.00% | 25.00% |
| 15 | Lycanroc | 4 | 10.00% | 25.00% |
| 21 | Eelektross | 3 | 7.50% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Medicham | 3 | 7.50% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Perrserker | 3 | 7.50% | 66.67% |
| 21 | Camerupt | 3 | 7.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Hattrem | 3 | 7.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Quaxwell | 3 | 7.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Ursaring | 3 | 7.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Haunter | 3 | 7.50% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Mabosstiff | 2 | 5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29 | Pyroar | 2 | 5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29 | Spiritomb | 2 | 5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29 | Cacturne | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Clawitzer | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Klawf | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Rotom | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Skuntank | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Venomoth | 2 | 5.00% | 50.00% |
| 29 | Honchkrow | 2 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Lurantis | 2 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Tauros-Paldea-Combat | 2 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Tinkatuff | 2 | 5.00% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Crocalor | 1 | 2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42 | Stonjourner | 1 | 2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42 | Whiscash | 1 | 2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42 | Electrode | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Falinks | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Glaceon | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Houndoom | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Rabsca | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Rotom-Frost | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Sawsbuck | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Toedscool | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 42 | Zangoose | 1 | 2.50% | 0.00% |
| 20 | Dudunsparce | 3 | 7.50% | 33.33% |
| 42 | Dudunsparce-Three-Segment | 1 | 2.50% | 100.00% |
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Uses | Usage % | Win % +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Sandaconda | 120 | 40.54% | 55.00% |
| 2 | Passimian | 114 | 38.51% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Goodra | 107 | 36.15% | 49.53% |
| 4 | Copperajah | 93 | 31.42% | 53.76% |
| 5 | Oricorio-Pom-Pom | 88 | 29.73% | 56.82% |
| 6 | Vaporeon | 78 | 26.35% | 57.69% |
| 7 | Muk | 41 | 13.85% | 63.41% |
| 8 | Jolteon | 40 | 13.51% | 47.50% |
| 9 | Bruxish | 39 | 13.18% | 53.85% |
| 10 | Lycanroc | 37 | 12.50% | 43.24% |
| 11 | Drifblim | 36 | 12.16% | 55.56% |
| 12 | Venomoth | 34 | 11.49% | 32.35% |
| 13 | Chansey | 32 | 10.81% | 65.62% |
| 13 | Vespiquen | 32 | 10.81% | 62.50% |
| 15 | Dudunsparce | 30 | 10.14% | 53.33% |
| 15 | Zoroark | 30 | 10.14% | 50.00% |
| 15 | Frosmoth | 30 | 10.14% | 40.00% |
| 18 | Umbreon | 29 | 9.80% | 55.17% |
| 19 | Hattrem | 27 | 9.12% | 59.26% |
| 19 | Braviary | 27 | 9.12% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Mabosstiff | 26 | 8.78% | 50.00% |
| 21 | Medicham | 26 | 8.78% | 30.77% |
| 23 | Eelektross | 24 | 8.11% | 54.17% |
| 24 | Haunter | 23 | 7.77% | 60.87% |
| 25 | Scyther | 21 | 7.09% | 66.67% |
| 25 | Whiscash | 21 | 7.09% | 52.38% |
| 25 | Tauros-Paldea-Combat | 21 | 7.09% | 47.62% |
| 25 | Lurantis | 21 | 7.09% | 38.10% |
| 29 | Skuntank | 20 | 6.76% | 55.00% |
| 29 | Toxicroak | 20 | 6.76% | 40.00% |
| 31 | Spiritomb | 19 | 6.42% | 73.68% |
| 31 | Klawf | 19 | 6.42% | 31.58% |
| 31 | Oricorio-Sensu | 19 | 6.42% | 31.58% |
| 34 | Crabominable | 18 | 6.08% | 55.56% |
| 34 | Rotom | 18 | 6.08% | 55.56% |
| 34 | Farigiraf | 18 | 6.08% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Crocalor | 17 | 5.74% | 70.59% |
| 38 | Jumpluff | 16 | 5.41% | 31.25% |
| 39 | Perrserker | 15 | 5.07% | 60.00% |
| 39 | Quaxwell | 15 | 5.07% | 46.67% |
| 41 | Houndoom | 14 | 4.73% | 35.71% |
| 41 | Camerupt | 14 | 4.73% | 28.57% |
| 41 | Morgrem | 14 | 4.73% | 21.43% |
| 44 | Pyroar | 13 | 4.39% | 76.92% |
| 44 | Sawsbuck | 13 | 4.39% | 38.46% |
| 46 | Clawitzer | 12 | 4.05% | 58.33% |
| 46 | Oricorio | 12 | 4.05% | 58.33% |
| 46 | Honchkrow | 12 | 4.05% | 50.00% |
| 46 | Zangoose | 12 | 4.05% | 33.33% |
| 50 | Rabsca | 11 | 3.72% | 45.45% |
| 51 | Cacturne | 10 | 3.38% | 50.00% |
| 51 | Qwilfish | 10 | 3.38% | 50.00% |
| 53 | Spidops | 9 | 3.04% | 44.44% |
| 54 | Ursaring | 8 | 2.70% | 37.50% |
| 54 | Indeedee-F | 8 | 2.70% | 25.00% |
| 56 | Veluza | 7 | 2.36% | 57.14% |
| 56 | Masquerain | 7 | 2.36% | 14.29% |
| 56 | Tinkatuff | 7 | 2.36% | 14.29% |
| 59 | Frogadier | 6 | 2.03% | 83.33% |
| 59 | Carkol | 6 | 2.03% | 66.67% |
| 59 | Vivillon-Fancy | 6 | 2.03% | 50.00% |
| 62 | Basculin | 5 | 1.69% | 60.00% |
| 62 | Misdreavus | 5 | 1.69% | 60.00% |
| 62 | Glimmet | 5 | 1.69% | 40.00% |
| 62 | Golduck | 5 | 1.69% | 40.00% |
| 62 | Appletun | 5 | 1.69% | 20.00% |
| 62 | Rotom-Frost | 5 | 1.69% | 20.00% |
| 68 | Gogoat | 4 | 1.35% | 75.00% |
| 68 | Rotom-Fan | 4 | 1.35% | 75.00% |
| 68 | Electrode | 4 | 1.35% | 50.00% |
| 68 | Toedscool | 4 | 1.35% | 50.00% |
| 68 | Wugtrio | 4 | 1.35% | 50.00% |
| 73 | Stonjourner | 3 | 1.01% | 100.00% |
| 73 | Fraxure | 3 | 1.01% | 66.67% |
| 73 | Leafeon | 3 | 1.01% | 66.67% |
| 73 | Murkrow | 3 | 1.01% | 66.67% |
| 73 | Scovillain | 3 | 1.01% | 66.67% |
| 73 | Eiscue | 3 | 1.01% | 33.33% |
| 73 | Flapple | 3 | 1.01% | 0.00% |
| 73 | Glaceon | 3 | 1.01% | 0.00% |
| 73 | Squawkabilly-Blue | 3 | 1.01% | 0.00% |
| 82 | Dugtrio | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 82 | Falinks | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 82 | Magneton | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 82 | Squawkabilly | 2 | 0.68% | 50.00% |
| 82 | Ampharos | 2 | 0.68% | 0.00% |
| 82 | Delibird | 2 | 0.68% | 0.00% |
| 82 | Persian | 2 | 0.68% | 0.00% |
| 82 | Raichu | 2 | 0.68% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Drakloak | 1 | 0.34% | 100.00% |
| 90 | Dedenne | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Greedent | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Hypno | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Kricketune | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Luxray | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Oricorio-Pa'u | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Squawkabilly-White | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Sudowoodo | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Swalot | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
| 90 | Wigglytuff | 1 | 0.34% | 0.00% |
In the discord i tell how similar this tier look to the last SS NU meta. Most balance team are a mix of the top 6 mon on ladder. Sometime Perserkerr is in place of Rajah or Umbreon instead of Vaporeon. But this mon are still the best mon in a tier too similar to last gen.| Rank | Pokemon | Uses | Usage % | Win % |
| 1 | Sandaconda | 120 | 40.54% | 55.00% |
| 2 | Passimian | 114 | 38.51% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Goodra | 107 | 36.15% | 49.53% |
| 4 | Copperajah | 93 | 31.42% | 53.76% |
| 5 | Oricorio-Pom-Pom | 88 | 29.73% | 56.82% |
| 6 | Vaporeon | 78 | 26.35% | 57.69% |
252 Atk Tera Fighting Passimian Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aron: 992-1168 (411.6 - 484.6%) -- guaranteed OHKOL + ratio + 252 Atk Tera Fighting Passimian Close Combat vs. You: 992-1168 (411.6 - 484.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There's a part of me that wants to agree with you here. Passimian is indeed everywhere simply because the amount of revenge killing it provides with its phenomenal coverage as well as the general offensive power it brings to the table even with a Choice Scarf set. There is a most definitely a part of me that looks at Passimian in the current meta and having flashbacks to SSNU Mienshao in terms of effectiveness, but comparing them is just an insult to Mienshao.Yes I think Passimian is too good, may be hot take, not broken but centralizing to the point I think it needs to go, like seriously. None other viable Fighting type has access to U-turn Knock and the sheer power of just CC, it can run Rock Slide to revenge kill the QD guys, or EQ for Muk which is the best (omg i hate muk). Its like sooo damn splashable to the point its borderline for me. This also if not QB deserved of a suspect. (Reminds me of SSRU Mienshao).
I specifically said that I dont find Passimian broken.?? Just too good and a centralizing force. The reminder with Mienshao was more of the dominance among figthers cuz of splashability and access to Uturn + Knock. I didn't even compare them for a reason.There's a part of me that wants to agree with you here. Passimian is indeed everywhere simply because the amount of revenge killing it provides with its phenomenal coverage as well as the general offensive power it brings to the table even with a Choice Scarf set. There is a most definitely a part of me that looks at Passimian in the current meta and having flashbacks to SSNU Mienshao in terms of effectiveness, but comparing them is just an insult to Mienshao.
Mienshao had access to Regenerator, the importance of which cannot be overstated, as it made it capable of switching in and out of the game into hazards without ever having to worry about chip racking up. In addition, Mienshao's incredible 105 Spe made it easily in the top 3 fastest viable Scarfers. That speed tier also made it capable of easily running non-Scarf sets (most notably LO), which rapidly made it obvious that it had been in NU way too long, with RU following suit soon after.
Comparably, Passimian is great, and most definitely something you have to keep in mind while building, but far from overcentralizing. Passimian hasn't really changed since its introduction in gen7 for good reason. While you will occasionally see a non-Scarf set, especially last gen when Choice Band picked up more steam, 955 of the time atm, its gonna be Scarf, and that is a set that has its drawbacks. As I mentioned in my post on the VR thread, Passimian's defensive utility is pretty much limited to being able to tank any one non-SE hit, which at the end of the day isn't that useful outside of emergency checking something or in endgame scenarios where Passimian already thrives. In addition, the current metagame isn't as friendly to Passimian's base 80 Spe. In a metagame infested with Quiver Dancers, Passimian can find it difficult to function as speed control, since offensive spreads on the likes of Oricorio can outspeed at +1 while the bulky sets can tank Rock Slide and set up to +2 to outspeed anyways. The monkey also suffers from sucess as picks like Scarf Rotom and Mabostiff have risen in popularity in part due to their higher base Spe allowing them to get the jump on the monkey. While Pass has definitely benefited from the removal of Scald, the metagame is at a power level where switching him in on anything besides an offensive threat to revenge kill is at best a calculated risk. Passimian actually does have to care about its health if it wants to be able to get that ideal endgame cleanup, since it does likely need to be able to take that one hit. After all, as great as 120 Atk is, oftentimes it just isn't enough to OHKO the slightly chipped Sandaconda. This is exacerbated by a metagame where hazard stacking is alive and well. Spikes and TSpikes especially hamper Passimian's need to stay fairly healthy. Even in the hypothetical world where Passimian is banned, it doesn't change the fact that you will need to account for powerful fighting types with good coverage. Passimian doesn't even have the benefit of a secondary STAB, which all of the other premier fighters bar Pauros have.
TLDR Passimian is really good, but calling it broken is farfetched at best. Thanks for listening to my TED Talk if you read all my rantings.
If Magneton is struggling to KO something on switch, like non-Tera Chansey, it can always Volt Switch to do some outrageous chip damage and soften it up for later; the only safe switch-in against Specs Magneton would be specially defensive Whiscash, which should hopefully have taken plenty of damage while setting up its hazards beforehand. Magneton is especially appealing for being an immediate punishment to the numerous Tera Fairies running around in the tier, and its ability to switch into annoying paralysis sources like Dudunsparce Glare/Body Slam and Hattrem Nuzzle and threaten an immediate KO with Specs Tera Steel Beam is appreciated as well (you can also try to punish Glare Sandaconda with Specs Tera Flash Cannon, but do this at your own risk lol).252+ SpA Choice Specs Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dudunsparce: 448-528 (98.6 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 474-560 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandaconda: 364-430 (104.5 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ 252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 247-291 (66 - 77.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 370-436 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tera Fairy Crocalor: 360-428 (98.3 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tera Fairy Chansey: 608-716 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
While Choiced Bruxishes have already adapted to using Poison Fang to punish Tera Dark Vaporeons while retaining coverage on Cacturne, Swords Dance Bruxish takes it a step further in completely flipping the Vaporeon matchup. This set takes full advantage of the fact that Vaporeon cannot really hurt it, as any Haze attempts can be undone by Swords Dancing again without much consequence, and Lum Berry staves off Yawn. Vaporeon will then be put into an extremely rough position where if it Tera Darks too early, it gets +2 Tera Blasted in response for a likely OHKO, but if it does not Tera Dark, Bruxish can just smack it with Psychic Fangs without needing to Tera so it can continue resisting Vaporeon's attacks. And of course, Umbreon becomes a target as well; even physically defensive Umbreon will lose as Bruxish will resist the Foul Play, while Lum Berry guards against Thunder Wave.+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Vaporeon: 444-524 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 414-488 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 459-540 (102.4 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This shouldn't come as a surprise really. It's generally the default Choice Scarf user for the tier and the removal of Goodra from the tier also generally removes any need it ever had for Tera Fairy Tera Blast on Choice sets. Knock Off on a Fighting-type in a tier where hazard removal is limited and forces a lot of fat mons to run Boots means it just creates a lot of clean up chances for itself. U-turn is always good on a Choice mon and being able to form a VoltTurn core with the likes of Vespiquen, Eelektross, Rotom, and Jolteon makes it even more challenging to play around. Rock Slide, Gunk Shot, and Earthquake all smack would-be counters for likely lethal damage. I don't feel it's too much for the tier, but it is awfully centralizing and may fall under the "overcentralizing" category of broken (as in, the meta "can" handle it, but generally has to overprepare somewht to account for it.}