Metagame np: Stage 1: New Rules (Vivillon quickban post #173)

[halpalumps]

Kind of niche maybe but if you can consistently set up rain, then buizel might not be too terrible? With at least Murkrow and shroodle for prankster setting there's definitely potential for rain teams, but I do know sun is really strong too with grass and fire abusers so this might not be so crazy but with wave crash, and terra water in the rain its hard to not deal large amounts, plus with priority, so it's maybe worth exploration?

Also revival blessing shenanagins with rabsca might actually be something in this tier? Thinking about how it is far more likely to revive things at least. Especially with weather when you can revive sweepers and setters, maybe both if you run the leppa berry combo.

Last thing I think is important is knock off is like on nothing, but NFE mons seem to fill a lot of important niches in this tier, so with eviolite so prominent as a result, thief might be some nasty counter play since so many mons get that instead and especially NFEs.

 

[Leni]

- - - - -

Quick team drop for those who wants to play with decent-ish fat team. Saw some people talking how hard it is to come up with one and thought I could give it a go.

Was able to hit 1400 something

with this without adjusting evs. Very straight forward max-max, but if u have the time and energy, highly recommend to put some thoughts on EVs. Aimed to cover most of the QD mons, special fires and both weathers pretty much.

Oinkologne is serious sleeper pick. It keeps taking hits left and right while spreads para through body slam. Can only recommend it.

Couple replays: sun, rain, offense, offense, offense and HO

Definitely not the best team, but plays out well enough and easy to turn into stall if that is something you desire

 

[SlickHippo99]

Wanted to highlight two mons that have helped me get to top 25-ish on the ladder that aren't getting enough attention.

Persian

Set

Persian @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Covet
- U-turn
- Bite

Despite having terrible Attack, I've found Persian to be pretty good. Fake Out actually hits pretty hard with Technician and Silk Scarf, and it's even stronger with Tera Normal. Great for revenging weakened setup sweepers (especially QD users) and it can help you buy a turn against weather and Trick Room in a pinch. U-Turn is great for synergy with Volt-Turn cores. The speed tier is also pretty great, outspeeding pretty much every unboosted mon in the tier besides Electrode.

Scovillain

Set

Scovillain @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ground / Water / Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Leaf Storm
- Energy Ball
- Tera Blast

Scarf Scovillain is really good. It's a great cleaner and revenge attacker, plus it serves as a nice check to Sun Teams with Chlorophyll. STABs are really strong and it doesn't need too much else. Tera Ground is nice for catching Pyroar and Houndoom off guard against Sun, but Tera Water is another option for hitting Camerupt and Oricorio harder. Tera Fire or Grass can be good for boosting STABs too.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

What safely handles Crabominable? Because both STABs hit incredibly hard and Tera can make it even tricker to deal with

In my experience, Quaxwell does decent against it with max defense eviolite and brave bird, although you need to pray you opponent doesn't tera electric thunder punch you, and you're really just stalling unless you really wanna tera flying on an ice type.

calcs on Quaxwell

252+ Atk Iron Fist Tera Electric Crabominable Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quaxwell: 206-246 (60 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Crabominable Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quaxwell: 138-164 (40.2 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Tera Fighting Crabominable Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quaxwell: 138-164 (40.2 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Crabominable Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quaxwell: 103-123 (30 - 35.8%) -- 35.4% chance to 3HKO

8 Atk Quaxwell Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Crabominable: 190-224 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
8 Atk Tera Flying Quaxwell Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Crabominable: 284-336 (71.3 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's also not impossible to revenge kill Crab, but it's kinda hard since Houndoom only gets a 2HKO on AV crab and Oricorio (fire) does 88-99 with rev dance, meaning it needs to hit hurricane to OHKO non-AV sets without rocks up.

 

[Yoshikitty64]

quite frankly? oricorio needs to GOricorio. this thing becomes a menace with enough qds and is bulky enough to handle it too.

 

[Perla]

Assuming that we want to live in a tera meta, I honestly think that Quiver Dance+Tera is a problem in general for PU.

QD has always been an OP move because it boosts 3 stats at once and it has always been kept balanced by the poor coverage of the mons that got this move (with some exceptions).

Tera provides 3 very useful tools for the old QDers:
1) additional coverage, thanks to the move Tera Blast or, even worse, Revelation Dance which is stronger and doesn't force you to run a disappointing special Normal type move (STABless in many cases).
2) more sheer power because not only you have additional coverage but you also benefit from STAB, making your mon even more threatening.
3) the defensive property of changing your type: in a world where nobody learns Toxic, if you want to try to destroy the QDer by attacking it with supereffective moves, you might be disappointed because your opponent can immediately terastallize and your mon becomes useless, creating situations in which you give at least 3 turns to the QDer to set up 3 times.


All these dynamics are very strong and competitive in RU, they are borderline-broken in NU, but I do think that they're too much for PU, considering that we have even fewer tools to deal with mons which are basically the same ones that thrive in higher tiers, just slightly scuffed (of course I'm referring to the Oricorios)


I don't think it would be too outlandish to ban the whole move and keep the mons in the tier, considering that some of them can be used as defoggers which this tier desperately needs.
Some of them might even rise next month.

To conclude I've recently seen lots of bulky stuff which sets up with Bulk Up or Calm Mind and it's not always that easy to deal with them (as usual tera doesn't help): but at least they are generally slow so you might find a way to prepare for them.
But QD provides also speed boosts, pushing this archetype over the edge.

 

[Beaf Cultist]

???

The brokens. First two should be banned ASAP and the second row soon after, because they all make the tier borderline unplayable in its current state. AV Crabominable is really fun tho.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

???

The brokens. First two should be banned ASAP and the second row soon after, because they all make the tier borderline unplayable in its current state. AV Crabominable is really fun tho.

Okay, a lot of these I get but... Raichu? How is Raichu broken? I haven't once seen it brought up as an issue in this thread. Same with Falinks, Flapple and Electrode.

 

[Beaf Cultist]

Okay, a lot of these I get but... Raichu? How is Raichu broken? I haven't once seen it brought up as an issue in this thread. Same with Falinks, Flapple and Electrode.

Raichu is one of the fastest mons in the tier, as well as being incredibly strong with Choice Specs. The tier’s Grounds kinda suck and Raichu gets Surf anyway, so really its only counterplay are Grasses, which it pivots all over. It’s not necessarily broken ig, just really really good at what it does. Falinks is kinda dumb with No Retreat + Tera, though it’s pretty matchup fishy and held back currently by all the broken birds. Flapple is absurdly strong. I know people hate Hustle but like, I OHKOed a specially defensive Wigglytuff with Scarf Grav Apple. As long as you keep hitting the 80% rolls, Scarf Outrage actually cleans entire teams, with no real switchins since the Fairies suck and get smoked by Grav Apple anyway, and the Steels (read: Perrserker) lack reliable recovery and are destroyed by Tera Fire Tera Blast if need be. Electrode is probably fine which is why I put the question mark by it, but Tera Ice can be pretty annoying in the right matchups.

 

[Togkey]

I've played a bunch of PU since the tier dropped and wanted to give my thoughts on some of the deemed "problematic" Pokemon in the tier.

(I know 1389 isn't impressive just wanted to show I've played a fair amount on my main and my alt)

Firstly, I don't agree with the sentiment that Crabominable is broken. I think it's the best Pokemon in the tier, but its reliance on Terastallization to remedy its poor typing and its terrible speed and vulnerability to all hazards, status, and adverse contact effects means it can be managed in a myriad of ways, and its ability to just barely 1v1 most things is a breath of fresh air in a metagame filled with volatile setup sweepers and breakers with no traditional checks.


Vivillon's ability to instantly put on of its checks out of commission with an accurate Sleep Powder means teams need to always carry two checks just to not immediately lose to it. Beyond the warping implications this has in the builder, the fact that one of these two checks could lose to a random Tera Blast type anyway makes Vivillon far too good for the tier, although I doubt that's much of a hot take at this point.


Eviolite sets are just too bulky for Magneton's speed tier and raw power. Choice Specs takes this power to obscene levels, 2HKOing the bulkiest resists like Camerupt and Toedscruel while being able to simply Volt Switch on anything else that it can't OHKO. The only saving grace against Magneton is Pincurchin. Pincurchin is immune to Electric moves thanks to Lightning Rod and can tank 2 Flash Cannons with max Special Defense investment. PIncurchin is just a generally nice Pokemon to lay (Toxic) Spikes, and it has reliable recovery and nice coverage in Discharge and potential Tera Surf.


In a similar vein to Magneton, Rotom-Frost 2HKO's a large majority of the tier while being able to Volt Switch against anything that avoids the 2HKO, most of these Pokemon lacking recovery. Rotom-Frost's natural bulk paired with its speed, Will-O-Wisp, and Terastallization means often times the only counterplay is to put the Rotom-Frost user in a position where it needs to Blizzard to pick up a KO, and it misses. This forced variance and overall pressure from a Pokemon that outclasses almost everything else with raw BST alone is incredibly unhealthy for the tier in my eyes.


These two are pretty similar to me; fast strong Fire-type. Although these Pokemon are quite difficult to manage defensively, I think they prove quite vulnerable to Terastallization reversals, examples such as Tera Water Crabominable and Tera Rock Lilligant. Their poor bulk also means they're incredibly easy to pressure offensively, although that doesn't always mean something is balanced. I think in the current metagame Houndoom and Pyroar are healthy breakers that defensive teams struggle with but can manage through Terastallization and bulky NFE's like Carkoal, Sliggoo, and Dragonair. Offensive teams have plenty of means of offensively pressuring these Pokemon, through Choice Scarf users and faster threats like Dug and Wugtrio, and priority users like Cacturne, Squawkabilly, and Persian.


I've only used Choice Scarf sets and from what I've seen the only thing keeping this from folding entire teams is a double immunity, having a Normal- and a Steel-type on your team, and correctly guessing what STAB move I use. Tera Ghost Shadow Ball 2HKO's pretty much the entire tier, and Trick and Destiny Bond mean even bad MU's for Haunter can be turned around. Unsure if it's actually broken this early on but it's definitely a top tier silly guy.

Not gonna bother talking about Oricorio, I've been doing this song and dance (haha) since RU, QD Pokemon are balanced by their shit typing and movepools, and now there's a mechanic that circumvents all of that. Not cool lol.

Other Pokemon that I have struggled against early on in the tier, or have used myself to concerningly good success, not sure if they're broken or what but they deserve a shoutout.
​

 

[rien]

(click me for paste)​

likely not gonna use this team again as i barely have any free time these days so might as well share it here. mirror herb pompom was busted in nu and mirror herb pau is just as busted here if not worse with almost all teams heavily relying on quiver dancers and other setup sweepers. also gogoat is the single best non-broken mon in the tier, legit s rank material. Musharnanigans thanks for building with me ily my cringerina <3

set breakdown

yung rapunxel (Hippopotas) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Roar​

easily the worst mon on this team and the most expendable mon slot, it just can't take hits reliably and really struggles to use slack off vs almost anything, but roar is often useful against stupid phys attackers and auto sandstorm is also very nice considering like 50% teams on ladder are weather ho. tera dragon almost never gets used but it's there if you really need an emergency raichu check.

ice princess (Rotom-Frost) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Blizzard
- Discharge
- Volt Switch​

nice momentum mon and occasional wallbreaker that is mostly there for nullifying any and all tera ground bailes/paus (and also pre-tera bailes) with tera rock and levitate preventing them from doing anything but firing weak hurricanes. it will become gradually less useful as ppl start ditching tera ground and start using the better tera (fighting). blizzard is nice when it doesn't miss.

miss camaraderie (Oricorio-Pa'u) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Dancer
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance
- Roost​

mother. i cannot emphasize how busted mirror herb is for oricorios in this gen - this not only allows you to punish other quiver dancers and other random setup sweepers like falinks for trying to win, but also lets you initiate the boost vs. opposing oricorios, immediately getting you the upper hand in a 1v1 scenario. since this team features no hazard removal, pau is the obvious choice over baile for this strategy as rocks completely invalidate the latter. tera fight grants it practically unresisted coverage together with hurricane, a way to dismiss of steels and various tera rock users (like the aforementioned rock frosttom/fantom that tera grounds can't touch) that may try to dispose of it, and a really nice resistance to sucker punch.

212 (Golduck) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cloud Nine
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hypnosis
- Encore​

like in previous gens, golduck finds itself in a "jack of all trades but master of none" situation wherein it doesn't excel at any single role but can perform a lot of them decently. scarf works well for this team as an emergency houndoom/pyroar switchin, another anti-weather check (cloud nice stops weather effects and i'm pretty sure it ohkos scovillain with hydro pump), and a generally nice water-type scarfer. fast encore is an absolute gem on any mon that can get it in this meta full of setup sweepers. i opted not to run grass knot as it really doesn't do a lot vs. opposing waters and instead went for hypnosis which can be really annoying during early game when mons like quaxwell are still on the field. tera water is nice if golduck is needed to clean up late game.

desperado (Gogoat) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 180 HP / 216 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Leaf Blade​

gogoat is surprisingly really solid this gen, bulk up sets get the most fanfare but band and av sets are really excellent too. even without full attack investment, gogoat is really hard to switch into reliably, with rock slide in particular being very spammable if other sap sipper mons are on the field. i don't remember exactly what the ev's do and what they're meant to outspeed but the extra bulk helps it with raichu which can put pressure on this team. tera rock is really useful not only against oricorios but also against other normal- and flying-type attackers like squawkabilly, and it makes rock slide even harder to switch into in a meta deprived of good bulky grounds. leaf blade is there just in case you need something stronger than horn leech for a particular threat but it almost never gets clicked, i can see milk drink work there in case you really need to get that extra hp during a forced switchin and can't rely on horn leech for it.

luxury (Perrserker) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 100 HP / 152 Atk / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn​

really nice av user that can reliably provide slow momentum and is also difficult to switch into even without a lot of atk investment. 20 spe evs are for speed creeping other perrserkers so you can dent them with close combat first, the rest are for comfortably taking a thunderbolt from specs magneton and proceeding to ko it after rocks with close combat. tera poison is barely ever used but it's there for emergency fighting moves counterplay as well as for emergency removal of tspikes since the team doesn't have removal or another grounded poison-type. tera ground or tera electric might work too if you're super worried about being trapped by specs magneton with less than full health.

 

[Haffling]

Utility time

ok so not really a true utility mon but I thought id give it my praise here. Fast, really fast Timid outspeeds base 83 and below scarfers, and Modest outspeeds all non-scarf users that aren't Timid Electrode. Soundproof is great for punishing Hyper Voice from mons like Pyroar and Indeedee-F, and of course any other sound-based moves. Discharge is a solid stab option that can spread status, Taunt is really good vs all our Quiver Dance users, it baits Oricorio's to tera and tries and qd on it, and it stops Lilligant from taking advantage of it, Electrode also p much hard checks non-tera blast Vivillon.

set

Electrode @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Taunt
- Tera Blast

Our only fully evolved defensive ground, a solid rocker that walls Magneton, it has to watch out for tera blast Water tho. Spreads status very good with Lava Plume and Yawn, it also forces a lot of Electric types to run tera Water such as Rotom-Frost, and Electrode(Blizzard still hurts, but miss chance) as well as being a solid Fire resist vs pokemon such as Houndoom, Pyroar, and Oricorio-Baile.

set

Camerupt @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn / Protect
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power

Have seen no talk about this cutie, good Wish HP, Eviolite defs are solid, speed is good, sap sipper is also good, Thunder Wave is annoying, and having stab on Tera Blast all the time is ok. Tera Rock is so you can annoy Houndoom and Pyroar, also helps vs non-terad Quiver Dancers to a degree. Stored Power sets are probs way better but I thought it was worth a mention. (Foul Play is also an option)

set

Girafarig @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Protect
- Tera Blast

Misdreavus is id say our best spin blocker, its also able to spread status on p much everything except having access to so many utility moves such as Perish Song, Taunt, Destiny Bond, Trick Room, All Weather setting moves, and Mean Look. Overall a great mon(hates Haunter tho) its also very good vs Slaking. (not 100% on what sub pain split evs are)

sets

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex / Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Pain Split
- Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Pain Split
- Hex / Night Shade)

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Perish Song

While Tinkatuff hates all the broken Fire-types around it's a solid rocker( Mold Breaker stops any Hattrem shenanigans) and walls Indeedee. Encore is Tinkatuff's best option to not get used as set-up fodder, and by now you should know status is king so Thunder Wave is a must imo. Foul play is also a option thats ok.

set

Tinkatuff (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Encore

Funny little mouse

set

Shroodle @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Parting Shot
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Encore

 

[MasterPlayer]

I'm going to agree that most of the mentioned threasts are are indeed broken (Crabominable needs to go because seriously this thing is way too strong for PU), I've found Vivillon to not be just as broken if you can scare it out and maybe even OHKO it before it start to setup QD. Glaceon actually does a decent job at this, and with Lum Berry it does not care about Sleep Powder and can pretty much go for Freeze-Dry right away to dispatch Vivillon unless Vivillon runs Tera Ice. Plus it's bulk isn't actually that bad and it can tank atleast one Hurricane, but it gets 2HKoed by it, so switching into it might be the best of the options, however a slow pivot might do the job just fine. Glaceon can also do decently well against other mons too: Freeze-Dry dispatches any Ground Type not named Camerupt and any Grass Type not named Scovillain, as well as the majority of the Water Types, and with Tera Ground you can hurt Houndoom and Pyroar with Tera Blast, as well as Magneton if it doesn't go for Tera Water. You still die to Crabominable either way though, so things might get better once the crab gets the boot.

 

[Aurist]

+

Common pair I'm seeing right now, Quaxwell is looking to be the best hazard control in the tier and Skuntank makes its job easier by covering its vulnerability to tspikes and having good utility + anti-offense itself in tspikes/sucker/aftermath. Both offer a decent amount of threat with their bulk and utility and I expect they'll become main stays as the tier develops.

As for some problem mons in the tiers, the most broken imo:
// // //

There's so much strong stuff and hard offense and such a lack of reliable defense that it's hard to tell what's broken and what's the tier:
// // // // // // //

Likely OK but have some really high potential and could go over the edge:
// // //

Overall the tier has started fairly enjoyable despite some overwhelming mons. It's a little bit like if Adv NU had Tera, the bottom of the barrel is sometimes where the flavour lives

 

[WilhelmTheOkay]

Sun and Rain getting you down? Why not try out the other weather setters in the tier!


Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind / Yawn

The best weather disruptor in the tier. With Eviolite Hippopotas has 340/289/301 bulk and access to reliable recovery meaning Hippopotas can seriously hold its own as a wall in this tier against the likes of Houndoom and Magneton without Tera. Unfortunately, Hippopotas struggles with the amount of Grass, Water, and Ice attacks being thrown around and is absolutely terrified of Knock Off and Trick. Also the only Sand abuser right now is Dugtrio who seems good so far but is still only one Pokemon.


Snover @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Snover can't really do much outside of setting Snow but there are at least a few Pokemon who can make use of that in PU. Notably Beartic, Glaceon, Rotom-Frost, and Crabominable all enjoy the defense boost, the accurate Blizzards, and abilities the Snow provides. Unfortunately without access to useful status moves, stats, or resistances, Snover basically makes the game a 5v6 for you.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

Snover @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Snover can't really do much outside of setting Snow but there are at least a few Pokemon who can make use of that in PU. Notably Beartic, Glaceon, Rotom-Frost, and Crabominable all enjoy the defense boost, the accurate Blizzards, and abilities the Snow provides. Unfortunately without access to useful status moves, stats, or resistances, Snover basically makes the game a 5v6 for you.

Snow is actually kinda fun, and I've found Snover + Beartic + Houndoom to be a fun core. The Snover set I run reaches 323 HP, 306 DEF, and 360 SpD, which is kind of a lot for something with a 334 BST. Blizzard doesn't do damage though. Beartic being slow doesn't really matter if you have snow up, and AV + Snow means it's kinda bulky. If you get in on a water or ground type, trailblaze can be useful.

I would put more effort in this if I had more time, but I just want the idea out there.

My Sets

Snover @ Eviolite
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Giga Drain

Houndoom@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Sludge Bomb

Beartic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Liquidation
- Trailblaze
- Close Combat

 

[Yoshikitty64]

sun teams are actually goober mode fr. scovillain is a force to be reckoned with and we must oust it

 

[EonX]

ZOOMIN

Dragonair @ Choice Band
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Iron Head

I haven't seen this discussed too much, but with how fast the meta feels right now, Banded Tera Normal Dragonair can double as a cleaner and general revenge killer against many offensive teams. You might click Waterfall once in a while against something like Camerupt or Sudowoodo and Iron Head can clap a random Tera Fairy mon if need be, but you're generally going to be clicking ESpeed at least 90% of the time which is why Adamant is the nature of choice since your main attack is a priority move. So, I bet you're wondering how strong this actually is. Surely there's some offensive Pokemon that can stomach it, right?

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom: 277-327 (95.1 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vivillon: 277-327 (92 - 108.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Oricorio: 214-253 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 259-306 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode: 214-253 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

All of these are pretty meta offensive Pokemon and none of them are favored to survive even if Rocks aren't up with the exception of Oricorio. Now, obviously they could foil you with Tera types, but anything can be foiled by the right Tera type for the most part. But how does Dragonair do against bulkier Pokemon that are meant to handle some hits where it doesn't necessarily need ESpeed just to revenge kill something?

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sudowoodo: 190-224 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 153-180 (63.2 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Camerupt: 429-507 (125 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pincurchin: 250-295 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonair Outrage vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tera Water Magneton: 168-198 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (EVs on Mag assume you outspeed max speed base 50s)

Even in matchups where ESpeed isn't as necessary, Dragonair still has just enough power to punch some holes in bulkier targets. It's by no means perfect when ESpeed isn't really necessary, but still having use in matchups where you don't need that is really nice. And in matchups where ESpeed is potent, Dragonair becomes incredibly annoying for your opponent to deal with if there's not a Haunter lurking.

 

[schlondark]

Compendium of slightly dogwater set's I've come up with:


Girafarig @ Eviolite
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Rest
- Foul Play
- Tera Blast


Pupitar @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Rest


Using rest as reliable recovery like Sandaconda might work for these two


Flapple @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Ripen
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Grav Apple
- Outrage
- Sucker Punch

Ripen sitrus for an automatic +1/2 when getting low let you live more than you would think and you hit harder than one would expect


Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Nuzzle
- Volt Tackle
- Surf
- Volt Switch


Rabsca @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Struggle Bug
- Revival Blessing
- Sludge Bomb

Tera boosts moves below 60BP to 60BP provided they are not multi-hit or priority which can make these two hit harder than they normally would if you don't need tera for anything else


Sawsbuck @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Body Slam
- Headbutt / Stomping Tantrum
- Trailblaze

Decently speedy, packs an actual punch, and can be used to spread paralysis or take advantage of heavy odds for the opponent to flinch. Could possibly use coverage moves instead as grass/normal gets walled by a lot.


Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Serious Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Smack Down
- Earthquake
- Roar

Surprisingly high attack and bulk with eviolite, shame about no recovery but tera-technician can let smack down hit pretty hard and make random things earthquakeable.


Squawkabilly-Blue @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Final Gambit
- Brave Bird
- Quick Attack

-2 Atk -1 Spatk can make a lot of things easier to deal with; all-around problem solver with fast priority and shot/gambit that aren't blocked by Dark.

Carkoal is really bulky, heavily resists or is immune to fire, Fraxure has actual attack and first impression, and Hattrem can function as a great annoyer.

 

[Chloe]

Hi, the PU council will be voting on whether or not to remove Oricorio (Baile) (The Fire One) from the tier, within the next 24 hours, prior to the first round of the PU Kickoff Tour. We generally agree that this is the most prominent offender out of all of the arguably broken Pokemon we've received. We won't be voting on any other Pokemon yet, and giving them time so that we can see how they develop. Please continue to feel free to voice your opinions on Baile Oricorio, or the metagame as a whole! We would love to hear your input!

 

[RaginCajun366]

Just a small list of all the busted pokemon and movesets I've found through vigorous testing on the ladder

Thoughts & Prayers (Wugtrio) @ Binding Band
Ability: Gooey
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Chilling Water
- Wrap
- Dig

 

[MasterPlayer]

I wish that Crabominable was the one voted on right now, but I hope it goes too soon, and maybe Vivillon but I find the latter to be more manageable in terms of not letting it setup QD at all. as for Oricorio, the role compression on it along with QD is just beyond what other threats can do, including the afromentioned 2 and stuff like Houndoom, Haunter and Magneton.

 

[Theblobfishman9]

Is it possible to consider voting on quiver dance instead of oricorio, having quiver dance and tera makes it to much to handle for the tier. Additionally Ori also keeps Vivillion from running wild with its quiver dance and is good for hazard removal with defog. Liligant kinda gets screwed but it can still function on sun teams.

 

[Pabloaram]

Will i think it is early to ban mons, some like Oricorio Baile are so overly over the top that i think is better "prevent than cure" before Kick Off start. I think even mons like Houndoom and Vivillon are the same of powerlevel as Ori-Baile but banning one annoying qdancer is a good first step into a more "balance" tier.

Outside of Oricorio QB i wanna talk about a few mons i use and play against and feel they are good in the meta:


Quaxwell @ Eviolite
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Liquidation
- Brave Bird
- Rapid Spin
- Roost

Quaxwell is our best hazzard control outside of Defog Oricorio. Reliable recovery and good typing give this mon a upper hand over mons like Carkol or Toedscool or Deligoat.


Indeedee-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Tera Blast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

Indeedee-F is a nice option as scarfer as Psychic Terrain not only boost his STAB Psychic, he protects Deedee and his teamates from priority. Psychic, Tera Ground and Dazzling give perfect coverage and you have healing wish to back up a setup swepper or a bulky mon like AV Crabominable.


Jumpluff
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Strength Sap
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder


At start i rated low a Jumpluff but after trying Pluff can revenge/sweep this frail metagame. Sleep Powder and Strength Sap are both annoying and amazing tools that is hard to block with a Grass-type bc of Itemless Acrobatics. Infiltrator is good to revenge kill Haunter behind a sub and to ignore Screens.


Crabominable @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Close Combat
- Ice Hammer
- Thunder Punch

Mr Crab is whitout a doubt one of the best mon in the tier. AV let you win many 1v1 while recovering to full try to Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch. S tier mon for sure but he still have some weakness that make easier to play against: many common weakness and slow speed. On the not-so-niche TrickRoom teams is a trully demon however.

This all for me.. Good luck to everyone in the KickOff Tour

 

[Pabloaram]

Is it possible to consider voting on quiver dance instead of oricorio, having quiver dance and tera makes it to much to handle for the tier. Additionally Ori also keeps Vivillion from running wild with its quiver dance and is good for hazard removal with defog. Liligant kinda gets screwed but it can still function on sun teams.

It is hard to ban a move over a mon. If every QD show that the move is the problem and not the mons there is a small chance