np: SUMO UU Stage 2 - Countdown

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+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix-Mega: 301-355 (85 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

No, Mega Steelix does not really work all that well when a small amount of chip damage ends up making it die to Grass Knot (and this is assuming bulkiest Mega-Steelix. Trying to mix between bulk at all just makes it even worse)

Also, i'm not sure why you are trying to say Xurkitree not taking a Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor is really relevent like at all?
 
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 124 Def / 4 SpD / 136 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Stealth Rock /U-turn/icefang/SD/taunt/etc

A really bad and matchup specific gliscor spread, but hear me out
phys def is so u can always live an adamant max attack ice punch from buzzwole even after rocks
252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 124+ Def Gliscor: 256-304 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
speed is to outspeed max speed adamant buzzwole and base 80's bc ur so close anyways

(this set low key loses to any choiced buzzwole with correct prediction but eh)
0 Atk Gliscor Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 172-208 (46.7 - 56.5%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
whatever bulk they run, u can always roost stall ice punches to eventually beat any non choiced buzzwoles.

4th move is whatever ur team needs whether its rocks or momentum or other.

once toxic orb is activated its a gr8 knock off switchin aka Krook switchin, and the added phys def helps check it more reliably too.

Obvs this set is pretty bad and specific, but if ur looking for a decent buzzwole switch that can provide a large amount of utility/annoyance look no further!!!

i suppose u lose to bulk up buzzwole but is that even a set ~__~
 
While we are on the topic of what beats Buzzwole, I feel like Talonflame is an excellent check to it. Buzzwole does 65%~ with focus punch and talonflame risks getting knocked out with recoil; this scenario is for if Buzzwole has a sub up and if you have used up your z move. Obviously you need rocks off for talonflame to pull any of this off. Not only that, I feel like talonflame has gotten a lot better with the the drops, excluding Xurkitree. A lot of these drops are fast and some are very weak to flying moves meaning, talonflame comes out on top. Talonflame obviously needs a good amount of support but, I stand that talonflame really does shine in this meta and has gotten only better as a revenge killer.
 

Xayah

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Jellicent is probably the best Buzzwole switch, if they don't run Knock Off. Shrugs off Leech Life / Ice Punch. Immune to Drain Punch / Focus Punch. Will-O-Wisp to cripple.
Buzzwole doesn't get Knock Off, and Banded sets 2HKO Jellicent with Thunder Punch (the set I ran for Banded Buzzwole is Superpower/Thunder Punch/Ice Punch/Earthquake). It is an excellent switch-in to any other set though, as it can break the Sub unless Buzzwole runs an insane amount of SpDef and takes nothing from any hit bar Thunder Punch (which is rare outside of Band).
 
Quickly posting my thoughts, as it is required of council members before a vote. A lot of things have been said so I won't cover every new drop; instead I'll just write about those who are problematic in my opinion.

: I think pretty much everyone agrees that sun teams are broken with the addition of Mega-Houndoom in UU. It brought everything that those teams lacked until the last tier shift: a fast Fire-type, a powerful abuser and a Latias answer. Houndoom's ridiculous power under sun (and that's without NP boosts), coupled with its excellent speed tier in UU make it extremely hard to deal with for any kind of team. Moreover, the dog isn't the only threatening abuser on these sun teams, and Houndoom and Venusaur complement each other so well that you don't even need to use another sun abuser with them now. Weather-based teams usually are heavily matchup dependant, and sun's viability against offense, balance and stall alike is a proof of its brokenness and the necessity for us to deal with it in some way. Now, the question is: should we ban Drought or Mega-Houndoom? It depends on your point of view, and both sides have valid arguments for or against it. I personally think Drought should be banned, mostly because Mega-Houndoom is fine without it, and I don't want to leave the way open for future potential drops that could raise the question of sun's healthiness in UU again.

: Now that's a trickier one. A lot of people underestimate Xurkitree's capabilities in UU; I think it mostly comes from the fact that offense is a largely prevalent playstyle in UU right now, and Xurkitree doesn't do great against it. Indeed, it is rather slow by UU's standards, has average defenses and a mediocre defensive typing, which means it can easily get revenge killed by faster opponents. But what make Xurk truly problematic are its unpredictability (can viably run many sets, from Z-Electric Terrain to Specs) and its absurd matchup against slower builds, thanks to its 173 base SpA and access to Tail Glow along with decent coverage. Balance has to resort to using scarfers or faster mons to deal with it, at the risk of getting predicted and taking huge damage on their Xurkitree check if they try to switch it in, while stall teams basically have no reliable answer (or they can use Diglett stall lol). A mon that can 6-0 even prepared bulky teams with ease while still retaining a decent matchup against offense (it can easily guarantee a kill) definitely shouldn't be allowed to stay in the tier.

: Maybe the most controversial of my nominations. While Buzzwole doesn't feel outright broken like Mega-Houndoom does, or doesn't have Xurk's almost perfect matchup against some playstyles, it's still one damn annoying mon and deserves at least to be discussed for a potential ban. The fact that Buzzwole is seen on most teams on ladder and fits in pretty much any playstyle is an indicator of how overcentralising it is in the current metagame. My problem with Buzzwole is how hard it is to deal with: it can wall most of our physical attackers without any kind of physical bulk, which wouldn't be much of a problem if it wasn't also pretty fast for such a sturdy wall, and more importantly a terrifying wallbreaker. 139 base Attack along with its coverage and versatility (can viably run Band, BU, Z-Stone Edge, and probably more) make Buzzwole a pain in the ass for any team. Yes, Buzzwole has an awful SpD stat and will drop to any special attack without proper investment, but that's not as bad for it as it sounds, since it easily forces physical attackers out for no cost and forces the opponent to take constant risks by either sacrificing something to Buzzwole to bring an answer safely, or by switching the answer directly at the risk of losing it to an unexpected powerful move (a bit like Xurkitree in a way). There are just too many rewards for little risk when using Buzzwole, and that IMO justifies a ban.
 
I reckon we should take a look at Mamoswine and M-Swampert as well, because so far, I don't know any UU Pokemon apart from Alomomola that can reliably switch into these 2 Pokemons without being 2HKO'd.
 

Moutemoute

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Buzzwole can easily handle both of them tbh.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 149-177 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 120-142 (29.6 - 35%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO (it's a 2HKO with the rain but the basically nothing that not resist Water STAB on rain take the same or more)

There are just too many rewards for little risk when using Buzzwole, and that IMO justifies a ban.
This description reminds me Clefable when it cas UU. I don't think Buzzwole deserve a ban just cuz it can checks a lot of things. It's like Clefable, this is the kind of Pokemon which are healthy for the metagame cuz without them a lot of thing became absolutely overwhelming (like Hydreigon since Clefable and Keldeo rise in OU). I trully think we need time, we need to wait till the metagame will have stabilized (and it's clearly just one week which can do that for sure, people still testing some stuff..).
 
Buzzwole can easily handle both of them tbh.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 149-177 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 120-142 (29.6 - 35%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO (it's a 2HKO with the rain but the basically nothing that not resist Water STAB on rain take the same or more)



This description reminds me Clefable when it cas UU. I don't think Buzzwole deserve a ban just cuz it can checks a lot of things. It's like Clefable, this is the kind of Pokemon which are healthy for the metagame cuz without them a lot of thing became absolutely overwhelming (like Hydreigon since Clefable and Keldeo rise in OU). I trully think we need time, we need to wait till the metagame will have stabilized (and it's clearly just one week which can do that for sure, people still testing some stuff..).
Yes, but as you can see, they are in the talks of banning Buzzwole, which would mean you will not be able to run it as a check for these 2 Pokemons. This begs the question, who would check Mamoswine and M-Swampert once you remove their biggest deterrent, and be able to switch into them without the risk of being 2HKO'd.
 
Slowbro
Calcs:
Mamo:
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-172 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Swampert:
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 135-160 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And for random Band mamos:
252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Cresselia
Mamo:
252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Cresselia: 204-242 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Swampert
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Cresselia in Rain: 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
PD: This doesn't mean that isn't broken but have checks outside Alomomola
 

Adaam

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One aspect of Xurkitree that I don't see many people talking about is how great Beast Boost is. It might seem like overkill with a its already immense SpA, but Beast Boost is what allows the speed boosting sets to thrive. It limits counter play far more than other wallbreakers/sweepers because sacking a pokemon against it is a terrible play unless you have a Scarf Krook/Aero in the back. Staying in to get some chip damage also is a huge risk for the same reason. No other pokemon in the tier does this. I dislike the seemingly popular comparison to Haxorus since locking yourself into Outrage sucks. If Thunderbolt locked yourself as well, then it would be more apt of a comparison.
 
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Hogg

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UU & Tour Head
After reviewing the nominations, the council will be voting on the following:

*Buzzwole
*Pidgeotite
*Xurkitree
*Sun (see below)

All of these received three or more nominations for suspect tests from council members. The council will now vote on each item to determine if they will remain in UU.

Regarding sun, as the council is divided on whether Drought or Houndoomite is the suspect-worthy element, the council will first vote to decide if sun requires further action and, if so, we will hold a run-off vote to determine whether Drought, Houndoomite or both are to be banned. The council is not considering a complex ban (such as Drought + Chlorophyll or Drought + Houndoomite) at this time.
 

pokeisfun

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I'll be voting ban Xurkitree, keep UU Buzzwole and Pidgeotite, and further action on Sun.

On Buzzwole I still am not particularly convinced its broken. Its not fair to me to say its broken when there are so many counter measures that work very reliably against Buzzwole - Sylveon, Chandelure and Crobat can all pierce the substitute set, which is the most dangerous set in my opinion. One of those (Chandelure) might not be particularly good, but it was certainly usable before the drops still...and if we make small adaptions like Sparkling Aria Primarina then I do not see Buzzwole as an overpowered threat, merely an influential one.

On Pidgeotite, I am similarly unconvinced that it should leave the tier. It has severe problems with one of the best Pokemon in the tier (Mega Aerodactyl). The main two reasons to use Pidgeot is high speed and very good offensive STAB to abuse but rather than confusion nerf, I think the main point keeping Pidgeot UU for me is the quickening pace of the metagame. 121 base speed is still well above average but the presence of Scizor's priority puts a bit of a damper on that. While it is theoretically good on volt turn teams, the mega requirement means it cannot pair with Beedrill which is one of the big reasons I don't see it as broken.

On Xurkitree, I changed my mind mainly because of some of the posts here and because of some discord chat, not necessarily because my own experience with it which is still subpar...I am bad at volt turn even though it's one of my favorite strategies. Basically I change my mind because:
  • Specs Xurkitree is a bigger threat than I gave it credit , OHKOing Scizor with Volt Switch and making Electric immunities on balance teams a near requirement instead of a luxury
  • To achieve the same initial threatening power of Haxorus, Xurkitree only needs Thunderbolt instead of Outrage which is a huge difference
  • Xurkitree threatens more defensive Pokemon that Haxorus because of its movepool and STAB
Despite this I do not think Xurkitree is necessarily an amazing Pokemon in UU...maybe only A- or B+ in terms of viability ranking. I actually think Buzzwole is definitely better and Pidgeotite probably better than Xurkitree. This reflects my thinking that viability is not the only determinant of a broken Pokemon, the bullet points I mentioned suggests Pokemon can be unhealthy in other ways for the metagame.

Sun is the easiest policy for me to vote on because its not yet at the ban / do not ban stage. At the moment I am leaning towards just banning Houndoomnite but in any case I do think further action is warranted. Actually I think Sun may have been overrated a little in some of the posts here (in one of the replays against a stall team, I think sun only won because a Toxic miss) but overall the power, speed, and spammability of Houndoom in sun is something UU should not want to keep.

I definitely understand if very few people agree with me on some or all of these nominations, I think the tier changed more than I originally thought with the drops and so there is probably plenty of room for disagreement.
 
I'm actually with pif that Mega Houndoom is what makes drought teams broken. Now, prior to Mega Houndoom dropping, sun was not very good as Ninetales was low on viability and wasn't even as good as torkoal but now, thanks to mega houndoom, ninetales has become excellent with firium z fire blast. Venusaur was decent on drought teams but of course, now it's good. In fact, you could just use the sun core of Mega Houndoom + Ninetales without a heat rock.
Now, this reminds me of what PU were confused to ban back when sun teams were good in ORAS, it was unsure if they should ban heat rock, sunny day, or Victreebel. From what they gathered after suspect testing is that Victreebel was the one that made sun broken and after getting banned, sun teams went back to being balanced.
Another point, no there is nothing in OU that could drop in the future that would make drought teams broken. (I can't remember who tried making this a point in their post.)
Mega Houndoom is clearly the suspect here as with flame charge, fire blast, dark pulse, and hp grass it can take down Offense; nasty plot, fire blast, dark pulse, hp grass takes down stall; also, nasty plot, fire blast, dark pulse, and flame charge takes down balance. I realized this when laddering with Hikari's mega houndoom set, moute moute's team, eht's team (I fixed it up a little though for my style of play), and a couple teams that I made myself. Mega Houndoom just needs sun for 5 turns and it already sweeps teams with little support to no support. Mega Houndoom is also extremely hard to deal with on hazard teams (that include drought ninetales) as mega doom + klefki are great partners. Mega Houndoom can tear apart many resists with just fire blast as well.
Mega Doom is quite over centralizing as I've even seen teams run rainy day on bulkier mons like slowbro and tentacruel when ninetales is in. Also, sand stream on hippo is being used more as a deterrent to drought so Mega Doom can't wreak havoc so easily.
I could see the argument that mega houndoom without instant sun is not broken so, with banning drought it allows all mons to be legal.
 

Amaroq

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I don't normally ladder too much, but I decided to play some games in this meta and laddered a lot more than I usually do (~150 games over the past four days, I think), so I felt like sharing some of my impressions. I'll start with the high-profile stuff and then move on to some things that aren't as prominent in the public consciousness. This post could get pretty long, so bear with me.

Suspects



I haven't used Buzzwole as much as I have some of the other things I want to discuss (I've played a few games and built a couple teams, but haven't really used it extensively), so I don't have as much to say about it. I've mostly seen Substitute + Focus Punch on the ladder, but Buzzwole has plenty of other options to make use of. It's very versatile, both offensively and defensively, and its stat spread and movepool offers users considerable customization options. Buzzwole is very easy to fit on teams because it can check a lot of prominent threats and still retain plenty of offensive presence. Aquadext explained Buzzwole's presence in the metagame quite well here. If I were voting this round, I would vote No Ban because I simply haven't used it enough to adequately evaluate whether or not it's broken.



Pidgeot-Mega @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Work Up
- Hurricane
- Refresh
- Roost

The standard set is pretty good, but I've been playing around with this a bit and liking it as a nice alternative to pressure bulkier teams that have the raw defensive stats to handle unboosted Hurricanes. The recent trend toward running trappers on stall makes Mega Pidgeot's job a little harder in that matchup, although it survives anything Scarf Krookodile and OHKOs back with +1 Hurricane. Work up gives Pidgeot a way to set up, Refresh lets it shrug off status from stuff like Blissey or Alomomola, and Roost grants it additional longevity. I'm a little surprised to see Mega Pidgeot nominated in a meta where powerful priority abounds and faster Mega Evolutions pressure it quite heavily, but I've mostly been playing offense, so my perspective is perhaps skewed. I suppose I can see how its powerful STAB with excellent coverage and ability to break apart bulkier teams could make it worth considering for a ban, even without factoring in Hurricane's confusion chance. I think that I would vote No Ban.



Xurkitree @ Electrium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Xurkitree @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

I've seen a lot of people using a lot of different Xurkitree sets, but the two above are the ones that I've found the most effective from personal experience. The ladder really likes using Z-Hypnosis and Z-Electric Terrain, neither of which I think is particularly good (although I find Z-Electric Terrain to be better than Z-Hypnosis) because Xurkitree loses a coverage move that it desperately needs if it uses either of those sets. I've also seen Choice Scarf Xurkitree a lot, and find myself generally unimpressed by a Choice Scarfer that can't outspeed Mega Aerodactyl at +1.

The sets above, on the other hand, have put in a lot of work, from what I've seen. The Tail Glow set breaks through pretty much every wall in the tier after a boost and has put a lot of pressure on stall to run a trapper. That said, running a trapper on stall has been a viable strategy for a long time. I'm pretty sure there's a DPP OU stall team that used Choice Scarf Tyranitar to trap threats that the defensive core, ABR used Weavile on an OU stall team, and Dugtrio has provoked a lot of debate among OU players for at least two generations now. I don't consider a general trend toward using a trapper on stall to necessarily indicate that an element of the meta is unhealthy. If stall is forced to run a trapper in order to avoid losing to a particular threat, perhaps that element is unhealthy, but stall has struggled against particular threats for a long time now (which threats it struggles with depends on the meta, but every viable stall team I've seen has bad matchups against something). Whether Xurkitree is broken depends on whether or not the pressure it exerts upon defensive archetypes by itself is so great as to make those archetypes unviable. Personally, I remain uncertain if that is the case and would likely Abstain if I were to vote.

Choice Specs is another cool option that Xurkitree can run. It trades the stallbreaking ability of the Tail Glow set for more immediate power and the ability to grab momentum with Volt Switch. Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt breaks through just about anything that doesn't resist it or have Blissey-level special bulk and puts in a bit more work against offense than other sets by firing off boosted attacks in matchups where it doesn't have the leeway to try to set up. Xurkitree struggles against offense in general and usually doesn't feel like one of the strongest performers when I use it or see it used against offense. It can still often trade effectively, but offensive teams have a lot of ways to pressure it.

Sun + Mega Houndoom:

Personally, I'm leaning toward Drought as a whole being the problem because of the way it enables more Pokemon than just Mega Houndoom. Neither Drought nor Mega Houndoom seem broken on their own, but the combination is clearly problematic. I'm not certain what precedent exists to handle this type of situation, but, in the event of its absence, I'd ban Drought because it has multiple abusers and also has the potential to become broken again if new abusers enter the meta.

Big Players in the Current Meta


Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Wing Attack
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Mega Aerodactyl was already very good, but its ability to check or threaten a lot of the new drops made it even more useful than it was prior to the meta shift. Mega Aerodactyl provides its user with insurance against Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, Muk-Alola, Buzzwole, Mega Pidgeot, Mega Houndoom, and Xurkitree, although the fact that the arrival of Mamoswine and Mega Steelix means that teams have more options to check it offsets this value somewhat. Mega Aerodactyl has something of a problem with 4MSS, as it has to choose among its STABs, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, Pursuit, Roost, and a few other niche coverage and utility moves. Mega Aerodactyl does suffer from a higher opportunity cost with all the new Mega Evolutions available for use than it did when there were only a few alternative Mega Evolutions in the tier.



Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Choice Band Scizor has become much better after the meta shift, in my opinion. The influx of fast, frail threats caused by the tier shift raises the value of strong priority immensely. Scizor's Bullet Punch enables it to check Pokemon such as Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, Mega Pidgeot, and Mega Sceptile, not to mention various Choice Scarf users, although it requires some chip damage to get most of its neutral KOs. Scizor still provides the advantages it did before the tier shift in the form of its power, bulk, and its ability to grab momentum, but I think the meta has shifted in favor of Choice Band (or other offensive sets) over bulkier sets. It gained a few new checks, but the ability to pivot out of them with U-turn helps it a lot.



Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Hydreigon has the ability to revenge kill a lot of the new drops (as well as the things it did before) since it has either the raw damage output or the coverage to KO a lot of the current meta's offensive threats after Stealth Rock damage. It also has nice defensive typing and good bulk for an offensive Pokemon, allowing it to serve as a solid pivot and check stuff like Mega Houndoom (outside of Sun), Xurkitree, and (Mega) Swampert. Additionally, Clefable's rise to OU has made Hydreigon a bit more threatening, as none of the tier's available Fairy-types is as ubiquitous or as versatile as Clefable. Hydreigon isn't perfect (it still struggles with Fairy-types and has to choose between boosting its power and its speed through its item), but it can provide a lot of value to offensive teams that need the attributes it offers.

This ended up getting pretty long, so I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up here and return to talk about the interesting stuff later. I've still got some more stuff to share, so expect that sometime soon.
 
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So I figured that even though I'm not part of the rotating council, I would give my thoughts about sun. Now, I firmly believe that something has to be done about sun. Others have already highlighted why it's a problem, so I won't talk about that. I want to talk about banning Houndoomite vs Drought. I am personally in favour of banning Drought. While Houndoom is what broke sun teams, Houndoom itself is not broken outside of sun, if I have to explain why then just play with it without running Drought, I had decent results, but it was nowhere near close to broken. It reminds of when Kingdra dropped this gen, and while rain was certainly no slouch before like sun was before Mega Doom, regardless it was Kindgra that got it banned. Instead of banning something that's not broken, we banned Drizzle, which was the right choice imo, and is why I'm in favour of banning Drought, since barring a complex ban disallowing Drought + Houndoomite, which to be fair we may have precedent in the form of the old Drought + Chlorophyll ban. Regardless, avoiding collateral is a goal for most bans, and banning Drought doesn't take away any mons, and while it does kill sun, sun is already a very niche option without Houndoom, while Houndoom is actually a decent choice without Drought, so imo Drought is the most "clean" ban imo, and barring a complex ban, which I would prefer we avoid for reasons that people have brought up literally every time someone argues for a complex ban (cough chough Baton Pass).

TLDR: unlike sun pre Houndoom, Houndoom is actually a decent pick without sun, unlike the setters and Chlorophyll mons that were otherwise very niche picks even with Drought. Banning Houndoomite would have more collateral than banning Drought.
 

Amaroq

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Here's the more interesting stuff I promised. Pokemon are listed in no particular order.

Underrated Pokemon



Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Roar

I used Swampert on a couple of the teams I've been laddering with, and it's proven itself to be a useful defensive Pokemon. Swampert offers some nice role compression, providing its user with a bulky Water-type, a bulky Ground-type, Stealth Rock, and a phazer. It can also provide some other type of utility by replacing Roar with a move like Toxic or Counter. Swampert's bulk and typing allow it to check a lot of relevant Pokemon in the current meta, like Mega Aerodactyl, Mamoswine, Alolan Muk, Mega Steelix, and, to some extent, its own Mega Evolution. It can also pivot into resisted STAB attacks from Pokemon like Scizor and Mega Beedrill, although those Pokemon can simply U-turn out. Swampert also has a decent matchup against the omnipresent Buzzwole and can prevent it from setting up a Substitute with Scald and threaten to neuter it with a Scald burn. It's also a nice check to Electric-types that rely on Hidden Power Ice or other non-Grass-type moves for coverage, such as Raikou, certain Xurkitree sets, and Magneton. Finally, Swampert makes a good Pokemon to use on the ladder because the ladder likes to spam Darmanitan for God only knows what reason and Swampert can check Darmanitan effectively.



Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic / Magnet Rise
- Dazzling Gleam

Klefki's another useful Pokemon that you can kind of slap onto an offense team and suddenly have a decent check to a lot of threats. It also synergizes well with Swampert, since the two Pokemon have complementary typing and can each set up hazards, Klefki can inflict status on the Pokemon that would ordinarily take advantage of Swampert, and Swampert can shuffle opposing Pokemon around with Roar and force them to take hazard damage. I'm pretty sure I used this spread for something in ORAS, but I don't remember what. It provides Klefki with some nice mixed bulk and allows it to take on Pokemon like Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, and Mega Pidgeot. Klefki's EVs are very customizable and can be altered depending on what Klefki most needs to check (a fully defensive spread lets it take on Buzzwole to some extent and check Mega Beedrill more easily, heavy Special Defense investment enables it to handle Mega Sceptile more effectively, etc.). I ran Magnet Rise on the team I used Klefki on because I needed the temporary Ground-type immunity to deal with certain things, but Toxic is a nice option to prevent an opponent from taking advantage of Klefki's relatively passive nature and rack up more residual damage in conjunction with Stealth Rock. I do think Magnet Rise has gotten a bit more valuable in a meta where Mega Aerodactyl is stronger, Mamoswine and Mega Beedrill exist, and plenty of other strong Ground-type Pokemon and Pokemon running Ground-type coverage must be taken into account. Klefki does run into problems against teams that can abuse its lack of recovery outside of Leftovers, but it's a nice pivot/utility Pokemon for offensive teams that don't require it to stick around for too long. Its movepool also gives it a lot of cool utility options that are worth exploring.



Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

With the general increase in the merit of strong priority as a result of the drops and a shift away from sturdy Fire resists, Entei finds the attributes that it offers to a team appreciating in value. While burns now do less residual damage than they did in ORAS, the status still neuters physical attackers and Sacred Fire still spreads burns effectively. Even the minimal residual damage that burns provide in SM is useful for neutralizing Leftovers recovery and improving the odds of KOing a foe. Entei is powerful enough to blow through frailer Fire resists, most of which dislike being burned, and pairs well with Pursuit trappers like Scizor and Alolan Muk. Entei still struggles with its weakness to Stealth Rock and its unimpressive Speed tier, but it has the raw bulk to survive a lot of neutral attacks and the power to ensure a KO in return. Entei certainly isn't an incredible, meta-defining Pokemon right now, but I don't think it's getting the attention it deserves and feel that it brings more to a team than people give it credit for.



Terrakion @ Rockium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish

Everyone wants to play with the new Fighting-type toy in Buzzwole (and for good reason!), but Terrakion is still quite the heavy hitter and shouldn't be overlooked. While Terrakion's typing remains unimpressive from a defensive standpoint, it has enough natural bulk to survive a lot of neutral hits when setting up and packs a pretty nasty punch, especially after a Swords Dance. I used Terrakion with pivot support and didn't have too much trouble giving it opportunities to make an impact in whatever way was necessary between U-turn to get it in safely and intelligent trades. It still doesn't want to switch into much directly or take more than one or two hits a game, but it manages to differentiate itself from other Fighting-types through its excellent STAB coverage and incredible raw power. Terrakion requires a bit of support, but it's a versatile sweeper/wallbreaker that has the boosting options to take on offensive teams and bulkier builds alike.



Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics

Hawlucha is another Fighting-type option that seems to be flying under the radar a bit right now. The fact that Clefable moved up to OU was immensely beneficial for Hawlucha because it deprived the UU tier of one of Hawlucha's best defensive checks (although Sylveon seems to be an acceptable substitute thus far). This Pokemon is another reason why strong priority is so useful, as its incredible base Speed and access to Unburden make checking it offensively a difficult proposition at best. Hawlucha doesn't bring a ton of defensive utility to the table, but its typing allows it to create setup opportunities through its useful set of resistances and its defensive stats, while unimpressive overall, allow it to take a resisted hit in the process of setting up. I personally prefer the Power Herb set because I really like having immediate access to a powerful Flying-type STAB, which allows me to play Hawlucha much more aggressively and use it to open up holes for something else if doing so seems advantageous rather than conserving it until I find an opportunity to end the game, but the Sitrus Berry set is also quite good. Substitute grants Hawlucha a greater safety margin against priority attacks and status at the cost of an immediately powerful Flying-type STAB. Hawlucha's Attack stat isn't particularly impressive, which is another reason I like Power Herb Sky Attack, but its access to Swords Dance and moves with high Base Power helps to make up for that. I know meepsvictory has been finding a lot of success with Hawlucha, but I think other people have been sleeping on it a bit.

Finally, I'll share some impressions regarding Pokemon that I didn't feel like writing about in-depth for one reason or another.

Mega Sceptile has been unimpressive so far. I've used it on a couple of teams and it's generally done what I needed it to, but it's never felt like the most important Pokemon on my team. Its typing is pretty nice, but it suffers in a meta that's full of both Mega Sceptile's checks and alternative Mega Evolutions that have lower opportunity costs.

Mamoswine is still a nasty threat to offense and balance, with amazing offensive typing, enormous power, and enough bulk to take a hit or two. Its typing is awful from a defensive standpoint, but Mamoswine doesn't really need to contribute that much to defensive synergy when it can just kill things. STAB Ice Shard is also great in a meta with a lot of fast Flying- and Dragon-types running around.

I haven't had the chance to use Muk-Alola that much yet, but it's looked very good from what I've seen. It's bulky, strong, has nice defensive typing, can trap things, and has Poison Touch for added presence. I can definitely see Muk-Alola becoming a force in the tier as people stop playing with the flashier drops and start incorporating it into more builds.

Mega Steelix looks like a nice option for stall teams (and offensive and balanced teams) that offers a lot of role compression by providing a bulky Ground-type, a bulky Steel-type, Stealth Rock, other utility moves, and impressive mixed bulk in a single slot. Like Muk-Alola, I think people are going to start exploring the benefits this Pokemon offers once the appeal of some of the more offensive additions to the tier has worn off.

Nothing I've said here is likely to be particularly innovative or meta-defining, but hopefully this post has provided some justification for trying out some less-popular Pokemon.
 
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Here's the more interesting stuff I promised. Pokemon are listed in no particular order.

Underrated Pokemon



Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Roar

I used Swampert on a couple of the teams I've been laddering with, and it's proven itself to be a useful defensive Pokemon. Swampert offers some nice role compression, providing its user with a bulky Water-type, a bulky Ground-type, Stealth Rock, and a phazer. It can also provide some other type of utility by replacing Roar with a move like Toxic or Counter. Swampert's bulk and typing allow it to check a lot of relevant Pokemon in the current meta, like Mega Aerodactyl, Mamoswine, Alolan Muk, Mega Steelix, and, to some extent, its own Mega Evolution. It can also pivot into resisted STAB attacks from Pokemon like Scizor and Mega Beedrill, although those Pokemon can simply U-turn out. Swampert also has a decent matchup against the omnipresent Buzzwole and can prevent it from setting up a Substitute with Scald and threaten to neuter it with a Scald burn. It's also a nice check to Electric-types that rely on Hidden Power Ice or other non-Grass-type moves for coverage, such as Raikou, certain Xurkitree sets, and Magneton. Finally, Swampert makes a good Pokemon to use on the ladder because the ladder likes to spam Darmanitan for God only knows what reason and Swampert can check Darmanitan effectively.



Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic / Magnet Rise
- Dazzling Gleam

Klefki's another useful Pokemon that you can kind of slap onto an offense team and suddenly have a decent check to a lot of threats. It also synergizes well with Swampert, since the two Pokemon have complementary typing and can each set up hazards, Klefki can inflict status on the Pokemon that would ordinarily take advantage of Swampert, and Swampert can shuffle opposing Pokemon around with Roar and force them to take hazard damage. I'm pretty sure I used this spread for something in ORAS, but I don't remember what. It provides Klefki with some nice mixed bulk and allows it to take on Pokemon like Mega Beedrill, Mega Sceptile, and Mega Pidgeot. Klefki's EVs are very customizable and can be altered depending on what Klefki most needs to check (a fully defensive spread lets it take on Buzzwole to some extent and check Mega Beedrill more easily, heavy Special Defense investment enables it to handle Mega Sceptile more effectively, etc.). I ran Magnet Rise on the team I used Klefki on because I needed the temporary Ground-type immunity to deal with certain things, but Toxic is a nice option to prevent an opponent from taking advantage of Klefki's relatively passive nature and rack up more residual damage in conjunction with Stealth Rock. I do think Magnet Rise has gotten a bit more valuable in a meta where Mega Aerodactyl is stronger, Mamoswine and Mega Beedrill exist, and plenty of other strong Ground-type Pokemon and Pokemon running Ground-type coverage must be taken into account. Klefki does run into problems against teams that can abuse its lack of recovery outside of Leftovers, but it's a nice pivot/utility Pokemon for offensive teams that don't require it to stick around for too long. Its movepool also gives it a lot of cool utility options that are worth exploring.



Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

With the general increase in the merit of strong priority as a result of the drops and a shift away from sturdy Fire resists, Entei finds the attributes that it offers to a team appreciating in value. While burns now do less residual damage than they did in ORAS, the status still neuters physical attackers and Sacred Fire still spreads burns effectively. Even the minimal residual damage that burns provide in SM is useful for neutralizing Leftovers recovery and improving the odds of KOing a foe. Entei is powerful enough to blow through frailer Fire resists, most of which dislike being burned, and pairs well with Pursuit trappers like Scizor and Alolan Muk. Entei still struggles with its weakness to Stealth Rock and its unimpressive Speed tier, but it has the raw bulk to survive a lot of neutral attacks and the power to ensure a KO in return. Entei certainly isn't an incredible, meta-defining Pokemon right now, but I don't think it's getting the attention it deserves and feel that it brings more to a team than people give it credit for.



Terrakion @ Rockium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish

Everyone wants to play with the new Fighting-type toy in Buzzwole (and for good reason!), but Terrakion is still quite the heavy hitter and shouldn't be overlooked. While Terrakion's typing remains unimpressive from a defensive standpoint, it has enough natural bulk to survive a lot of neutral hits when setting up and packs a pretty nasty punch, especially after a Swords Dance. I used Terrakion with pivot support and didn't have too much trouble giving it opportunities to make an impact in whatever way was necessary between U-turn to get it in safely and intelligent trades. It still doesn't want to switch into much directly or take more than one or two hits a game, but it manages to differentiate itself from other Fighting-types through its excellent STAB coverage and incredible raw power. Terrakion requires a bit of support, but it's a versatile sweeper/wallbreaker that has the boosting options to take on offensive teams and bulkier builds alike.



Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics

Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics

Hawlucha is another Fighting-type option that seems to be flying under the radar a bit right now. The fact that Clefable moved up to OU was immensely beneficial for Hawlucha because it deprived the UU tier of one of Hawlucha's best defensive checks (although Sylveon seems to be an acceptable substitute thus far). This Pokemon is another reason why strong priority is so useful, as its incredible base Speed and access to Unburden make checking it offensively a difficult proposition at best. Hawlucha doesn't bring a ton of defensive utility to the table, but its typing allows it to create setup opportunities through its useful set of resistances and its defensive stats, while unimpressive overall, allow it to take a resisted hit in the process of setting up. I personally prefer the Power Herb set because I really like having immediate access to a powerful Flying-type STAB, which allows me to play Hawlucha much more aggressively and use it to open up holes for something else if doing so seems advantageous rather than conserving it until I find an opportunity to end the game, but the Sitrus Berry set is also quite good. Substitute grants Hawlucha a greater safety margin against priority attacks and status at the cost of an immediately powerful Flying-type STAB. Hawlucha's Attack stat isn't particularly impressive, which is another reason I like Power Herb Sky Attack, but its access to Swords Dance and moves with high Base Power helps to make up for that. I know meepsvictory has been finding a lot of success with Hawlucha, but I think other people have been sleeping on it a bit.

Finally, I'll share some impressions regarding Pokemon that I didn't feel like writing about in-depth for one reason or another.

Mega Sceptile has been unimpressive so far. I've used it on a couple teams and it's generally done what I needed it too, but it's never felt like the most important Pokemon on my team. Its typing is pretty nice, but it suffers in a meta that's full of both Mega Sceptile's checks and alternative Mega Evolutions that have lower opportunity costs.

Mamoswine is still a nasty threat to offense and balance, with amazing offensive typing, enormous power, and enough bulk to take a hit or two. Its typing is awful from a defensive standpoint, but Mamoswine doesn't really need to contribute that much to defensive synergy when it can just kill things. STAB Ice Shard is also great in a meta with a lot of fast Flying- and Dragon-types running around.

I haven't had the chance to use Muk-Alola that much yet, but it's looked very good from what I've seen. It's bulky, strong, has nice defensive typing, can trap things, and has Poison Touch for added presence. I can definitely see Muk-Alola becoming a force in the tier as people stop playing with the flashier drops and start incorporating it into more builds.

Mega Steelix looks like a nice option for stall teams (and offensive and balanced teams) that offers a lot of role compression by providing a bulky Ground-type, a bulky Steel-type, Stealth Rock, other utility moves, and impressive mixed bulk in a single slot. Like Muk-Alola, I think people are going to start exploring the benefits this Pokemon offers once the appeal of some of the more offensive additions to the tier has worn off.

Nothing I've said here is likely to be particularly innovative or meta-defining, but hopefully this post has provided some justification for trying out some less-popular Pokemon.
I agree with the Mega Sceptile line a lot. Mega Sceptile is very underwhelming as a Mega. Sure, it's typing is great and it has 145 base Special Attack and Speed to make up for it's paper-thin defenses. But, it doesn't hit anything hard enough. It's best move, Leaf Storm, brings it's Special Attack down two, making it easy setup fodder for Mega Aero, one of the biggest threats in the tier. It also gets easily outsped by the most common Choice Scarf users as well, notably Hydregion and Mienshao. It is also easily beaten by way too many things to really make it a threat.
Mega Sceptile honestly shouldn't be a high rank due to:
Lack of firepower/hard-hitting STAB moves not named Leaf Storm
Can be used as setup fodder after a Leaf Storm
Can't really get KOs without prior damage
Easily beaten by very common threats in Hydregion and Mega Aero and even beaten by Mega Sharpedo after a speed boost with Ice Fang and revenge killed rather easily
Walled ridiculously hard by Blissey
Typing and paper-thin defenses make it hard to switch into resistances
In short, M-Sceptile is just not worth the waste of a mega slot at all.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
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UU & Tour Head
The council has voted. Results are as follows:

Buzzwole - REMAINS LEGAL
Buzzwole's potency primarily lies in its raw bulk. With a decent defensive typing, a physical defense that puts the likes of Hippowdon to shame, and recovery in Roost and Leech Life, Buzzwole finds itself easily switching in on the majority of physical attackers in the tier and threatening them out with its powerful STABs. While its Speed is below average for an offensive threat, it is more than passable for a wall, and even allows it to outpace some things that would otherwise offensively threaten it such as Primarina. However, Buzzwole is held back by several factors. While its Speed is decent for a tank, it is still low enough that Buzzwole will almost never sweep. More importantly, its poor Special Defense means that any reasonably strong neutral attack threatens to OHKO it. Finally, while its offensive movepool is not completely barren, it suffers in several areas, lacking a reliable Fighting STAB and key coverage moves such as Knock Off.

The council overall felt that Buzzwole, while effective, was not an unhealthy component to the metagame, and voted 9-3 to keep Buzzwole legal.


Pidgeotite - REMAINS LEGAL
Pidgeot-Mega's fantastic Speed tier and perfectly accurate Hurricanes were enough to banish the bird to BL last generation, so it is no great surprise that it received nominations for a suspect again. SM brought several mechanics changes that presented something of a mixed blessing for Bird Jesus. On the one hand, Pidgeot-Mega greatly benefits from how Megas calculate Speed on the turn the evolve, allowing Pidgeot to jump past key threats such as Latias and Cobalion without requiring Protect. On the other hand, the nerf to confusion helps to alleviate what was arguably the most frustrating part of Pidgeot in ORAS. While these changes overall seem to come out in Pidgeot's favor, SM UU is also a very different metagame from ORAS UU, and the existence of excellent answers such as Raikou as well as an increase in powerful priority users such as Scizor mean that Pidgeot does not have the same clear skies it held in ORAS.

When all was said and done, the council almost unanimously agreed to keep Pidgeotite legal in UU in an 11-1 vote.


Xurkitree - REMAINS LEGAL
By far the most contentious of the nominations, Xurkitree's unparalleled Special Attack and access to Tail Glow arguably makes it the most powerful wallbreaker UU has ever seen. Even dedicated special walls and resists such as Blissey and Amoonguss find themselves insufficient to stop Xurkitree after a boost. Holding it back, however, are its pitiful 83/71/71 defenses, and a Speed tier that certainly is not bad for a wallbreaker but that leaves it struggling against the vast majority of offensive threats in the tier. While it has the ability to use Z-crystals to boost its Speed in an effort to shore up this weakness, doing so comes either at the cost of essential coverage or of Tail Glow. Finally, even after a boost, Xurkitree still finds itself outsped by every popular Choice Scarf user in the tier, as well as by the ever-common Aerodactyl-Mega.

The council was divided on Xurkitree. Many council members believed that Xurkitree's raw power and ability to power through slower teams made it too much for the tier, while others believed that its drawbacks provided enough counterplay to keep it from being an overwhelming threat. The vote was divided 6-6, and as it lacks the simple majority needed to ban it from UU, Xurkitree remains legal.


Sun - FURTHER ACTION REQUIRED
During the beta stages of UU, rain offense was exceedingly popular, and the council agreed to ban the Drizzle ability. However, at that time, sun teams were not found to be overwhelming, and so Drought has remained legal and largely untouched. Ninetales and Torkoal soon dropped to RU, and Drought only made a single appearance in all of UUPL.

All of this changed with the most recent tier shift, when Houndoomite became legal in SM UU. Houndoom-Mega is an exceedingly powerful wallbreaker under the sun, and boasts an excellent Speed tier to boot. This has led to a major resurgence in sun offense in general, and the council agreed to a man that sun is an unhealthy presence in the tier. In a unanimous vote, the council agreed that something must be done about sun.

However, the council was divided on how best to implement such a ban. Several members expressed a belief that Drought itself was the problematic aspect, and that Drought was merely underexplored in early SM UU. Others were adamant that Drought was never problematic until the introduction of Houndoom-Mega, and that a ban on Houndoomite was the more reasonable option.

Therefore, the council will be taking a runoff vote to determine whether they should ban Drought or Houndoomite. Please note that a complex ban (such as Drought + Houndoomite) is NOT being considered.


For those interested in how the indivudal votes broke down, you can see the results here:
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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Moderator
Sorry for being a bit late to the party, just had to spend some time to gather my thoughts on a select few of our new drops.
Honestly, this is my favorite gen 7 mon both in terms of design and competitive use. I've been running almost solely Tail Glow+3 Attacks Electrium Xurk in my runs on ladder, and i'd be hard-pressed to find a game where it failed to put in some sort of work. Even versus offense, I've managed to find some opportunity for Xurk to come in on a free switch and T-bolt or Gigavolt something (Usually, this is thanks to opposing Scizor, Mega Pidgeot, or Togekiss.), and while it certainly doesn't singlehandedly smash well-built stall or balance, it definitely plays a huge part in doing so. Beast Boost is fantastic for it, allowing for it to break past certain mons more easily and somewhat lessening the need for Xurk to use Tail Glow to break things. Also, this thing pairs really well with Pursuit trappers which can remove fast Electric resits like Latias and Celebi for it. It may fall a little flat when faced with a lot of faster mons (Especially Dragons), but Xurk does what it needs to for its job as a wallbreaker. I'm glad this thing didn't get banned, and it's a welcome addition to the tier in my opinion.

Now, to move on from my favorite gen 7 mon to my favorite Alolan forme. Assault Vest Alolan Muk is honestly a quite good pursuit trapper and special tank right now which stands out when compared to Metagross thanks to its better defensive typing and better special bulk, at the cost of physical bulk and raw power. It's a neat check to Latias, non-Groundium Celebi, Mega Sceptile, Raikou, Hydreigon (Although you'll just be poison jabbing that one), and many other special attackers of the tier. Poison Touch gives it a bit of an edge for crippling bulkier mons if need be, along with a last-ditch effort when paired with Shadow Sneak if you opt for that as your last move. It's got other neat options as well, such as Fire Blast to hit Cobalion, Klefki, and Scizor for some moderate damage and even Explosion if you want to go that route. I haven't tried either of these options yet myself, but I can definitely see their merits. In the past, I've seen several people just disregard this mon and call it bad, and while I can see where they're coming from, this mon is far from unviable and I can definitely see it carving its own niche in this new UU meta we've got here.

This mon was annoying to deal with in ORAS and it's still annoying to deal with now, although it's definitely got several more checks with the new gen. Buzzwole, thankfully, provides UU with another mon which can switch into either STAB, but now people have started to run HP Flying and other less efficient methods in order to break past Buzzwole anyway. Scizor exists now and can force it out pretty easily, but it has difficulty coming in versus Mamoswine more than once thanks to the fact that even the bulky spread is 2HKO'd by LO EQ. Mamoswine also provides something UU's been without for a long while: Ice Shard. Thanks to Ice Shard, all the fast dragons, grounds, grasses, and flyings in the tier will have to think twice before setting up in an attempt to sweep the opposing team. I suppose this is a welcome change for the tier, but I'm definitely pretty grumpy that building Birdspam's gonna be a lot harder now.

That's all I've got for now; I'll post my thoughts on more mons if I think of enough things to say about them.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Not council obviously but I feel Buzzwole should've been tossed, man. It might be THE #1 physical lure mon in UU right now. I know arguments in Hogg's post for its unban reasoning were that it had poor SpD/Speed stats that kept it from sweeping, which is true, but also that its coverage, lacking moves such as Knock Off, holds it back. That part, I find untrue personally...As it stands right now, Buzzwole has all the tools it needs to break whatever it wants to in UU, including itself (it's actually a really good answer to itself which is both cool and disgusting at the same time). Its movepool has Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Poison Jab, (Z-)Stone Edge, Earthquake, and even Toxic...I'm not making the argument that it has zero switch-ins whatsoever, because something will always wall your Buzzwole since you can only have four moves. But my argument for my reasoning is that with such a highly customizable movepool and stats, Buzzwole is capable of being whatever its team needs it to be--A bulky tank, a wall, a Choice Band wallbreaker, shoot, a Scarf set (which honestly isn't too great cause of its bad Speed) might be a decent lure against Offense in of itself.

To me, it just feels like Buzzwole is literally able to pick and choose whatever it wants to wall it--Ice Punch means Gliscor, Crobat, Mega Aerodactyl, Latias, Nidos, and Togekiss aren't even safe switch-ins. Thunder Punch means the aforementioned mons who are part Flying-type (barring Gliscor), Mantine, Jellicent, and if Adamant Choice Band is brought into consideration, Suicune, are unsafe against a well-played Buzzwole. Poison Jab murders Sylveon, Primarina, and Togekiss, while (Z-)Stone Edge hits the aforementioned Flying-types weak to it, Arcanine, Chandelure, Talonflame, and even Venomoth if that mon ever gets traction as a Buzzwole answer. Lastly, Toxic just screws with whatever's left that has enough backbone to handle all the other moves listed--Cofagrigus, Jellicent, Quagsire (vs. non-CB/SubPunch sets), even opposing Buzzwole! Oh yeah and Earthquake chunks Doublade...that's kinda all it's really good for though, and I wouldn't run that anywhere outside of a CB set anyway. Doublade's rare tho and pretty easy to wear down, so that's something in itself...point is, Buzzwole can murder that mon too if it wishes lol.

All in all, sure...it won't sweep most of the time, it might get revenged easily by any decently strong special attacker at 80 Spe or above, but I feel the issue is a lot of this thread is mostly considering SubPunch/CB Buzzwole in determining how good it is, when the well runs a lot deeper than that...I haven't even gone to the more obscure stuff like Bulk Up or Coba Berry sets. Buzzwole's bulk and versatility definitely let these work as viable options for it, if nothing else, in my opinion.

That said, I'm now gonna talk about some cool stuff I've both used/thought about for the current meta:


Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I've been messing with this kind of stallish team featuring a Granbull, which I feel is probably the strongest Buzzwole answer for stall teams outside of running your own Buzzwole (which I've seen pif do, prolly why that dude voted unban). It has the added benefit of countering non-Psychic/Psychium Z Latias, as well as (non-Poison Jab) Conkeldurr, Mega Swampert, and Hawlucha, among other things. I only recommend it for stall because it is an extremely passive mon, and the given set is really just for the longevity of itself and its team. Its main job is just keeping the threats it checks at bay and forcing them out easily, it doesn't do much in the way of punishing switch-ins. CB Poison Jab from Buzzwole does hurt this guy, and it forces him to Rest early, but being locked into un-STAB Poison Jab is pretty unsafe for Buzzwole, so that can be taken advantage of with stall. However if somebody's running Bulk Up + Poison Jab, or Z-Poison Jab Buzzwole...you're on your own fam.

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Buzzwole Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 158-188 (41.2 - 49%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 153-180 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 151-178 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 88 Def / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Fling
- Roost

The old "meme Gliscor" from BW OU is something I actually haven't tried yet, but I did talk about it in the UU chat on PS! wondering why it hasn't gained traction yet. It was honestly bsu's set that put this idea in my head lol. Reason I think it would get some traction now is A) Cynde has told me he's been using Acrobatics Gliscor to some success, though he'd been running Flyinium Z. B) As an offensive Buzzwole answer, you at least have a solid way of punishing it while doing big damage to unwary Conkeldurr and Hawlucha. EVs let you outrun Nidoking, which also lets you outrun Xurkitree...which pretty much every Gliscor HAS to do by this point now lol. Fling is cool for enabling full-powered Acrobatics while also poisoning something, so I guess that still has its merits.


Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Gigalith is pretty lowkey right now, I ran it on a team mainly using it as a rocker and Mega Pidgeot answer, but just the general tankiness of this mon makes it a force to be reckoned with because of the SpD boost it gets from having Sand up. While ruining Pidgeot's day entirely, it also screws with Mega Houndoom, Mega Beedrill, the random Chandelure somebody slapped on their team to deal with Buzzwole, Alolan Muk, and even Mega Aerodactyl in an emergency if it doesn't click Aqua Tail on the switch-in. Pretty cool mon overall, I won't outright say Gigalith is anti-meta, but it deserves more credit.

For now that's my thoughts lol, I had more but it's real late for me so I'll quit for now...more coming in the future maybe.

TL;DR: Buzzwole is going to do to UU what Trump did to the US but Granbull, Fling Gliscor, and Gigalith are some cool mons so give them a try!
 
Last edited:

Sage

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I also want to add to CSBs sentiment in my (fairly limited) experience with SUMO UU that scarf buzzwole can and will snatch surprise KOs/clean weakened teams when you least expect it. When you have buzzwole's initial power/beast boost plus a speed tier past Bird Jesus, things can go bad real quick.
 
Hi i want to present a cool M-scept set


Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain/Leaf Storm/Hidden Power Fire
The idea is simple a lot of switch-ins to scept Blissey/Toge/Gross don't like leech seed .Sub is mainly for blissey becouse you heal with leech seed the hp that sub takes. And then dual stab
 
Hi i want to present a cool M-scept set


Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain/Leaf Storm/Hidden Power Fire
The idea is simple a lot of switch-ins to scept Blissey/Toge/Gross don't like leech seed .Sub is mainly for blissey becouse you heal with leech seed the hp that sub takes. And then dual stab
I'm pretty sure Blissey can just keep breaking the sub, same with Togekiss and MetaGross. And then they can hit you with a STAB move and kill Sceptile in one hit.
 
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