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np: UU - A New Beginning

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You don't have to read the whole thread, just the first post.

Many people complained about the old UU, many revisions were made to it because of (possibly) flawed theorymon, and no-one really gave a damn about it. Now we do, so we are re-organising the Underused tier the way we should have done at the beginning of DP. (That was as "small" as I could get it)

EDIT: We are not making BL a tier, we are adding the old BL Pokemon to the Underused tier and then removing any suspects in no way is this making BL a tier, and by now it is fairly obvious that you have not read the first post.
 
I did read the first post. The whole page actually. But I don't get why people reject ideas like making BL a tier and after a year it's like "omg it's an amazing idea".
Another example. I made a CB set for Kyogre a while ago. People were like: Yeah, it's usable but why would you? It's crap because Kyogre is meant to be a special sweeper.
But how can it be crap with 100 Att? Everybody expects it to have stuff like Surf and Thunder, so this Kyogre's strenght is surprise.
I'm getting off topic now. Anyway, you can make changes in tiers, but does it really do the metagame any good? Everytime you move a Pokemon the whole metagame can change again. If you remove a Pokemon's counter then it can become an uber in that tier.
 
But, we're not making BL a tier. We're making UU into a tier. In a few months time, we'll have another UU ban list (possibly, but hopefully not), and then we won't have made BL into a tier.

To understand this, you need to just imagine that BL doesn't exist at all. We're creating a UU tier, we're not creating a BL metagame and naming it UU. It's a completely different situation, especially in purpose.

And, this almost certainly will imporve the metagame. That's why we are doing it. The old UU was an absolute shambles, this is already 'better' (in my opinion), and we haven't even attempted to balance it out yet!
 
MoonlightShadow said:
I'm getting off topic now. Anyway, you can make changes in tiers, but does it really do the metagame any good? Everytime you move a Pokemon the whole metagame can change again. If you remove a Pokemon's counter then it can become an uber in that tier.
Click to expand...

That's what the testing is for. To determine what makes the most varied, playable metagame possible. Rather than relying solely on theorymon, all the Pokemon are being tested for a new UU. We aren't using the old one as a basis anymore. BL is a faux tier solely for bans, and it will still exist. If something is too powerful for UU it goes there. However, to say that something is broken without testing it first is exactly what we want to avoid, and why your mindset is harmful to the process.
 
Anyone have any ideas of what they think of as "suspect"?

So far for me, Roserade and perhaps Magneton and Abomasnow
 
Regigigas is useable in UU now, and so I was wondering, has anyone found a way of making use of its excellent bulk? I've researched Gigas a bit and here are some of the basic stats about it:

dpiconani486.gif


110 / 160 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 100

Actual base stats. The massive attack stat steals all the limelight and distracts people from its true selling point - it's excellent 110/110/110 defenses. That's pretty bulky, even by OU terms. If you calculate the actual Atk and Spe stats that a Slow Start Regigigas has without any investment in them, they come out at approximately base 70 Atk and 40 Spe. Take a look at his stats again now:

110 / 70 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 40

Now you can clearly see what it is Regigigas can do best - tank hits and retaliate from useable Atk and SpA stats. Surely a pokemon as bulky as this can carve itself a niche in the new UU metagame? I'll be honest here - I have no idea what this niche is and how Gigas can fit into it. But this forgotten pokemon really intrigued me and has piqued my interest, and so I posted this here in the hope someone can tell us about a use they found for it. Here is some more information about Regigigas:

Special Movepool:

Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder

Support Movepool:

Thunder Wave, Toxic, Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Swagger, Psych Up, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Safeguard, Substitute

Physical Movepool:

Return, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Revenge, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche

-----

Now, I've just been thinking about things that Regigigas could possibly do in UU (instead of optimistically trying to hold out for Slow Start to finish), and I've brainstormed the following possibilities:
  • Can be a good user of Rain Dance (lol you know I love it). With excellent bulk on both sides, as well as Thunder to take advantage of the rain, it could be a viable possibility. Lack of weaknesses mean that not too much threatens it coming in, and it can also use Toxic to start getting some damage on walls to weaken them for rain sweepers to break through them, as well as knocking off Leftovers and other items to weaken the opposing team.

  • Could do the same for Sunny Day, although the lack of a special Fire attack and Solarbeam means it can't do this quite as well as it can for rain. However, the lack of viable users of Sunny Day who are not Grass or Fire type could mean Gigas gets some love.

  • Psych Up looks like it might hold some merit. You all know just how many stat-uppers there are running rampant in UU. Psych Up lets Regigigas copy Calm Mind, Bulk Up, Curse, etc to make it an even better tank than it already is. Psych Up goes through Substitute and hits Ghost types, so things like Sub CM Mismagius and CM Spiritomb could possibly be answered by Gigas. And with Raikou running about, Regigigas could actually be a viable counter for it. A specially defensive set can easily take on the standard sub CM sweeper, taking less than a quarter of its health damage from Thunderbolt if it and Raikou have the same number of boosts. Regigigas can then proceed to take it out with Earth Power, and then continue a sweep with its CM boosts once Raikou is taken care of. Even things like Dragon Dance Altaria can be Psych Up-ed and then possibly taken out by Avalanche, Ice Punch or Hidden Power Ice. And for the more optimistic of you, there is always the good old Swagger + Psych Up combination for you to try =p.

  • General status and Knock Off support. Instead of using Confuse Ray to try and stall out Slow Start (futile lol), Regigigas can use Thunder Wave, Toxic and Knock Off to cripple sweepers and walls alike. Instead of compromising its bulk by giving it Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, if these are all focused in its defenses then it will seriously be a pain to take out. Ironically, by adding to its defenses and not putting EVs into Atk to stall out Slow Start, Regigigas might just have the longevity to last the turns of Slow Start.

-----

I haven't tested these or even used Regigigas in battle for goodness knows how long, but it does say on the first page that "Don't be afraid to try new strategies with new pokemon!", and to me, Regigigas is a very interesting pokemon indeed. I hope other people share my sentiments and can think of ways to use it effectively in UU, and most of all I would like to hear other people's experiences of having used the forlorn giant.

Thanks, LR.
 
As of now, things I'm really upset / concerned about:

Hippowtas: Go to hell little shit. Yeah, it sucks... but its so easy to abuse the broken shit that comes alnog with it. Good luck penetrating the Cradily + Shuckle Combo, and they usually have Slowbro to sponge attacks from strong fighters / physical water pokemon. This is seriously broken...


Abomasnow: Fighting hail in UU just blows dick. I mean we dont have shit like Heatran / Heracross / Lucario / Metagross / Scizor / Infernape to give them hell.

Those are my main two gripes. I thought UU would give us a break from this BS, but its even worse to fight against in UU :-(.

Moving on:

Shaymin: Seriously, Life Orb Shaymin is causing me nightmares. Anything faster than it takes a crapload switching into its attacks, and will flat out die by switching into the wrong move. Anything slower has to take two hits, with a potential SpDef drop from Seed flare. I usually count on Venusuar to switch into Seed Flare, but then I have to switch to something else to take the Air Slash :-(. Then I get boned of something like Steelix is switching into a Hidden Power Fire instead of Air Slash. This thing is a terror.

Staraptor: Intimidate... Base 120 Attack... Brave Bird... Frustration... Close Combat.. Jesus Christ! I think Skarmory and the amount of steels are the reason people don't abuse this thing in OU, because its quite a frightening pokemon in that tier. UU.. this thing just sucks. All three of its main attacks hurt like hell... Scarf OR Band. Band is murder, but Scarf abuses Intimidate + U-Turn. The sad part is, your Spiritomb can be switching into a 2HKO of Brave Bird, your Steelix the same with Close Combat, and anything else this piece of shit bird can just Return / Frustration at its hearts content.

Frosslass: Free 2 layers of Spikes? Gah! If you aren't running something faster as a lead... good luck switching for the match.
 
Legacy Raider said:
Regigigas is useable in UU now, and so I was wondering, has anyone found a way of making use of its excellent bulk? I've researched Gigas a bit and here are some of the basic stats about it:

dpiconani486.gif


110 / 160 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 100

Actual base stats. The massive attack stat steals all the limelight and distracts people from its true selling point - it's excellent 110/110/110 defenses. That's pretty bulky, even by OU terms. If you calculate the actual Atk and Spe stats that a Slow Start Regigigas has without any investment in them, they come out at approximately base 70 Atk and 40 Spe. Take a look at his stats again now:

110 / 70 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 40

Now you can clearly see what it is Regigigas can do best - tank hits and retaliate from useable Atk and SpA stats. Surely a pokemon as bulky as this can carve itself a niche in the new UU metagame? I'll be honest here - I have no idea what this niche is and how Gigas can fit into it. But this forgotten pokemon really intrigued me and has piqued my interest, and so I posted this here in the hope someone can tell us about a use they found for it. Here is some more information about Regigigas:

Special Movepool:

Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder

Support Movepool:

Thunder Wave, Toxic, Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Swagger, Psych Up, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Safeguard, Substitute

Physical Movepool:

Return, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Revenge, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche

-----

Now, I've just been thinking about things that Regigigas could possibly do in UU (instead of optimistically trying to hold out for Slow Start to finish), and I've brainstormed the following possibilities:
  • Can be a good user of Rain Dance (lol you know I love it). With excellent bulk on both sides, as well as Thunder to take advantage of the rain, it could be a viable possibility. Lack of weaknesses mean that not too much threatens it coming in, and it can also use Toxic to start getting some damage on walls to weaken them for rain sweepers to break through them, as well as knocking off Leftovers and other items to weaken the opposing team.
  • Could do the same for Sunny Day, although the lack of a special Fire attack and Solarbeam means it can't do this quite as well as it can for rain. However, the lack of viable users of Sunny Day who are not Grass or Fire type could mean Gigas gets some love.
  • Psych Up looks like it might hold some merit. You all know just how many stat-uppers there are running rampant in UU. Psych Up lets Regigigas copy Calm Mind, Bulk Up, Curse, etc to make it an even better tank than it already is. Psych Up goes through Substitute and hits Ghost types, so things like Sub CM Mismagius and CM Spiritomb could possibly be answered by Gigas. And with Raikou running about, Regigigas could actually be a viable counter for it. A specially defensive set can easily take on the standard sub CM sweeper, taking less than a quarter of its health damage from Thunderbolt if it and Raikou have the same number of boosts. Regigigas can then proceed to take it out with Earth Power, and then continue a sweep with its CM boosts once Raikou is taken care of. Even things like Dragon Dance Altaria can be Psych Up-ed and then possibly taken out by Avalanche, Ice Punch or Hidden Power Ice. And for the more optimistic of you, there is always the good old Swagger + Psych Up combination for you to try =p.
  • General status and Knock Off support. Instead of using Confuse Ray to try and stall out Slow Start (futile lol), Regigigas can use Thunder Wave, Toxic and Knock Off to cripple sweepers and walls alike. Instead of compromising its bulk by giving it Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, if these are all focused in its defenses then it will seriously be a pain to take out. Ironically, by adding to its defenses and not putting EVs into Atk to stall out Slow Start, Regigigas might just have the longevity to last the turns of Slow Start.
-----

I haven't tested these or even used Regigigas in battle for goodness knows how long, but it does say on the first page that "Don't be afraid to try new strategies with new pokemon!", and to me, Regigigas is a very interesting pokemon indeed. I hope other people share my sentiments and can think of ways to use it effectively in UU, and most of all I would like to hear other people's experiences of having used the forlorn giant.

Thanks, LR.
Click to expand...

For a wall, Regigas support moves are pretty much weak. It's great attack stat is getting stalled by Slow Start. Overall, you wait 5 turns for this thing to come alive from its coffin to actually be an effective physical wall. With Slow Start it's nothing but great Base Stats.

Here are some things I notice:

Common lead seen:

Froslass: This thing is absolutely annoying. Destiny Bond + Taunt combo is really causing some to second think. Which gives it time to lay down spikes.

Persian: Also an annoying thing. More annoying than Ambipom given the ability to Sleep Induce and hit hard with technician and great speed.

Most seen/annoying Special/Physical Attackers:

Staraptor: The ability to come in with 2 resistance and intimidate factored in, this thing is annoying back and forth if you don't get a chance to lay down the rocks. One of its annoying attacks is both U-Turn and Return. It strikes my nerve because Scarf versions are annoying

Crobat: I'm talking about the physical versions. Brave Bat + Roost is hell annoying. It has great bulk to take first-move priority attacks to finish it off. With 130 base speed it really is annoying

Shaymin: Simply an all-around top 3 UU Pokemon. With great stats and ability its sure to be cheap. Annoying to take down which is something you have to play around with your switches before taking it down. Life orb versions are painful, but could revenge kill after constant switch outs. Leftover versions are the ones that strikes my nerve. Fill me in cause I only bleed green, is this not the most annoying thing?

Annoying Walls:

Spiritomb: I'm talking Sleep Talk versions. It is one well of a tank to deal with and keeps fighters in their shoes. Especially both Medicham and Gallade. It has great special attack and physical, which is what makes it scary also.

Milotic: Toxc/Recover. Imo a painful to deal with. Premier bulky wall and it is surely OU. It is one of the cheapest walls around with Recover........
 
Legacy Raider said:
Regigigas is useable in UU now, and so I was wondering, has anyone found a way of making use of its excellent bulk? I've researched Gigas a bit and here are some of the basic stats about it:

dpiconani486.gif


110 / 160 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 100

Actual base stats. The massive attack stat steals all the limelight and distracts people from its true selling point - it's excellent 110/110/110 defenses. That's pretty bulky, even by OU terms. If you calculate the actual Atk and Spe stats that a Slow Start Regigigas has without any investment in them, they come out at approximately base 70 Atk and 40 Spe. Take a look at his stats again now:

110 / 70 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 40

Now you can clearly see what it is Regigigas can do best - tank hits and retaliate from useable Atk and SpA stats. Surely a pokemon as bulky as this can carve itself a niche in the new UU metagame? I'll be honest here - I have no idea what this niche is and how Gigas can fit into it. But this forgotten pokemon really intrigued me and has piqued my interest, and so I posted this here in the hope someone can tell us about a use they found for it. Here is some more information about Regigigas:

Special Movepool:

Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder

Support Movepool:

Thunder Wave, Toxic, Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Swagger, Psych Up, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Safeguard, Substitute

Physical Movepool:

Return, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Revenge, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche

-----

Now, I've just been thinking about things that Regigigas could possibly do in UU (instead of optimistically trying to hold out for Slow Start to finish), and I've brainstormed the following possibilities:
  • Can be a good user of Rain Dance (lol you know I love it). With excellent bulk on both sides, as well as Thunder to take advantage of the rain, it could be a viable possibility. Lack of weaknesses mean that not too much threatens it coming in, and it can also use Toxic to start getting some damage on walls to weaken them for rain sweepers to break through them, as well as knocking off Leftovers and other items to weaken the opposing team.
  • Could do the same for Sunny Day, although the lack of a special Fire attack and Solarbeam means it can't do this quite as well as it can for rain. However, the lack of viable users of Sunny Day who are not Grass or Fire type could mean Gigas gets some love.
  • Psych Up looks like it might hold some merit. You all know just how many stat-uppers there are running rampant in UU. Psych Up lets Regigigas copy Calm Mind, Bulk Up, Curse, etc to make it an even better tank than it already is. Psych Up goes through Substitute and hits Ghost types, so things like Sub CM Mismagius and CM Spiritomb could possibly be answered by Gigas. And with Raikou running about, Regigigas could actually be a viable counter for it. A specially defensive set can easily take on the standard sub CM sweeper, taking less than a quarter of its health damage from Thunderbolt if it and Raikou have the same number of boosts. Regigigas can then proceed to take it out with Earth Power, and then continue a sweep with its CM boosts once Raikou is taken care of. Even things like Dragon Dance Altaria can be Psych Up-ed and then possibly taken out by Avalanche, Ice Punch or Hidden Power Ice. And for the more optimistic of you, there is always the good old Swagger + Psych Up combination for you to try =p.
  • General status and Knock Off support. Instead of using Confuse Ray to try and stall out Slow Start (futile lol), Regigigas can use Thunder Wave, Toxic and Knock Off to cripple sweepers and walls alike. Instead of compromising its bulk by giving it Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, if these are all focused in its defenses then it will seriously be a pain to take out. Ironically, by adding to its defenses and not putting EVs into Atk to stall out Slow Start, Regigigas might just have the longevity to last the turns of Slow Start.
-----

I haven't tested these or even used Regigigas in battle for goodness knows how long, but it does say on the first page that "Don't be afraid to try new strategies with new pokemon!", and to me, Regigigas is a very interesting pokemon indeed. I hope other people share my sentiments and can think of ways to use it effectively in UU, and most of all I would like to hear other people's experiences of having used the forlorn giant.

Thanks, LR.
Click to expand...

I tried to run Reggie as a sort of 'endgame' sweeper, so it couldn't be phazed and could stall out until the end of 'Slow Start'. It was suicide.

Although this has rather put me off Giggy a bit, I still think that this is an excellent opportunity for it to finally get some love, at long last.
 
legend of Krory said:
For a wall, Regigas support moves are pretty much weak. It's great attack stat is getting stalled by Slow Start. Overall, you wait 5 turns for this thing to come alive from its coffin to actually be an effective physical wall. With Slow Start it's nothing but great Base Stats.
Click to expand...

No, that's just the kind of thing I'm trying to speak out against. Screw Slow Start. Forget about trying to stall it out and instead focus on its best points, like I talked about in my post. Something with solid 110 defenses all round, as well as a useable base 80 SpA (higher than Blissey's, I might add) and special attacking options such as Thunderbolt, Earth Power and Focus Blast, is more than useable. I want people to forget about its silly ability and its alluring Atk stat, and instead try and focus on its defensive potential. And Thunder Wave and Knock Off are by no means bad options for a support movepool - they can help your team out immensely. Slow Start doesn't do anything to its physical defense, so I don't know what you were saying about having to wait it out for it to be a physical wall.
 
Legacy Raider said:
No, that's just the kind of thing I'm trying to speak out against. Screw Slow Start. Forget about trying to stall it out and instead focus on its best points, like I talked about in my post. Something with solid 110 defenses all round, as well as a useable base 80 SpA (higher than Blissey's, I might add) and special attacking options such as Thunderbolt, Earth Power and Focus Blast, is more than useable. I want people to forget about its silly ability and its alluring Atk stat, and instead try and focus on its defensive potential. And Thunder Wave and Knock Off are by no means bad options for a support movepool - they can help your team out immensely. Slow Start doesn't do anything to its physical defense, so I don't know what you were saying about having to wait it out for it to be a physical wall.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's defense is good. But you'd be better off with someone like Miltank if you want a faster, physical, durable wall. You see Regigas lacks healing ability and an ability to be a cleric. The only thing decent is Thunder Wave and Knock Off, which you listed. It would be more likable if given Stealth Rock or a Spike move. But it's ability to give it pathetic speed and weak support moves, you are better off taking advantage of those support moves to help get Slow Start away for 5 turns. After 5 turns this thing is deadly, granted nice speed, tremendous bulk, and monstrous attack stat. I just think it is more effective as a "Stall before sweep" rather than a UU wall.
 
I too, had given Regigas some thought, but legend of Krory makes an excellent point. Each Pokemon is made up of four components: stats, typing, movepool, ability. How good each of those are and especially how they fit together make up how good the Pokemon is. Stats are the component that mislead us the most. Garchomp, for example, had the same stat total as Dragonite, yet is Uber while Dragonite is (now) UU. Why? All of its components contributed to lift it to a level that was greater than the sum of its stats. Comparing Dragonite to Salamence would make the case even more clear, since they share not only the same base stats, but also the same typing. The problem with Regigas is not just that it has a bad ability. It is that only one component is decent (stats), and that it lacks the other components necessary to take advantage of its good stats. I suspect that was intentional on GameFreak's part; I'm sure they were afraid that if they gave Regigas a recovery move it would be too easy to stall out Slow Start, and render it "less interesting". Regigigas lacks a role it can really do well. It simply doesn't have enough "team player" moves to make it a viable team player.
 
Yeah, I really think GameFreak overdid the nerf they placed on Regigigas. Even having something like Protect in its movepool would help it out so much. I was just really intrigued by it in this new environment and was hoping someone had thought of a way to utilise it well. Ach well =/.
 
Lickilicky VS Regigigas

491.png
VS
468.png


110 / 70 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 40
110/ 85 / 95 / 80 / 95 / 50

Pink: Licki gets it too.

Special Movepool:

Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder

Support Movepool:

Thunder Wave, Toxic, Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Swagger, Psych Up,Rain Dance,Sunny Day, Safeguard, Substitute

Physical Movepool:

Return, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Revenge, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche

Notable Movepool Adavantages:

Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Wish, Explosion, Swords Dance, Belly Drum, Curse

-----
  • Can be a good user of Rain Dance (lol you know I love it).
  • Could do the same for Sunny Day, although the lack of a special Fire attack and Solarbeam means it can't do this quite as well as it can for rain.
  • Psych Up looks like it might hold some merit.
  • General status and Knock Off support. Regigigas can use Thunder Wave, Toxic and Knock Off to cripple sweepers and walls alike.
-----
Lickilicky, to me, is the more desirable bulky Normal with Status and Knock Off. Licki gets Wish and a decent Attack stat, which on their own, make it much easier to use. Not to mention the chance to sweep with that sexy Swords Dance+STAB Explosion.
 
Abomasnow and Hail are ridiculously annoying. I understand the issue with sandstorm, but at least Hippo Mini can be KO'ed easy. A well played Aboma can last the length of the match, and do big damage with Blizzards and Wood Hammers. The main problem with Hail, however, has to be Stallrein. The tier isn't really able to handle that thing right now.

As for suspects: Staraptor, Abomasnow, Shaymin and probably Roserade.
 
Is everyone wishing to get rid of Abomasnow to get rid of hail, or Abomasnow itself? Don't forget Snover!

If you're looking for a counter to Hail Teams, try...

-Weather of your own

-Porygon2 (Switch it into a Snow Veil or Ice Body)

-Life Orb Magneton (With Flash Cannon, Thunderbolt, and HP Ice, it literally rips through Hail teams)

-Use Golduck

-Scarfed Fire/Electric Types

Just some suggestions...really what you have to do is lead with something that can take out Abomasnow right at the beggining and then setup your own Hail.
 
I just wanted to share with you this awesome lead...

82.png

Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 22 HP/236 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Explosion

Crobat: You outspeed everything running the standard spread and slower, where you obviously go for the Thunderbolt.

Ambipom: It can't do anything except an odd Brick Break, but you otspeed and hit its weak defenses. Fake Out does nothing.

Roserade: You resist Leaf Storm and outspeed to hit with Flash Cannon or HP Ice.

Froslass: Outrun and hit with a quick Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon.

Abomasnow: Hit it with Flash Cannon and it's "lights out".

Another interesting version of a Megneton Lead is a bulky one with possible Dual Screen and Explosion. I ran one with Light Screen and ThunderWave+Explosion and Thunderbolt to help set up a Bulk Up Floatzel Baton Pass to LO Tauros, and it was pretty deadly.
 
diinbong said:
491.png
VS
468.png


110 / 70 / 110 / 80 / 110 / 40
110/ 85 / 95 / 80 / 95 / 50

Pink: Licki gets it too.

Special Movepool:

Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder

Support Movepool:

Thunder Wave, Toxic, Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Swagger, Psych Up, Rain Dance,Sunny Day, Safeguard, Substitute

Physical Movepool:

Return, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Revenge, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche

Notable Movepool Adavantages:

Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Wish, Explosion, Swords Dance, Belly Drum, Curse

-----
  • Can be a good user of Rain Dance (lol you know I love it).
  • Could do the same for Sunny Day, although the lack of a special Fire attack and Solarbeam means it can't do this quite as well as it can for rain.
  • Psych Up looks like it might hold some merit.
  • General status and Knock Off support. Regigigas can use Thunder Wave, Toxic and Knock Off to cripple sweepers and walls alike.
-----
Lickilicky, to me, is the more desirable bulky Normal with Status and Knock Off. Licki gets Wish and a decent Attack stat, which on their own, make it much easier to use. Not to mention the chance to sweep with that sexy Swords Dance+STAB Explosion.
Click to expand...

Lickilicky gets Rain Dance and Sunny Day too. Another interesting thing about Lickilicky is that it gained Aqua Tail in Platinum which allows for almost perfect two-move coverage alongside Body Slam / Return on attack boosting sets (Curse, Swords Dance, Belly Drum). Could work decently as a Curselax-esque last Pokemon cleaner I guess if you could eliminate the counter, but I've never actually tried it myself.

Anyway, another thing I wanted to discuss was what people were considering to be suspects after the first week of the new metagame, but I guess I've already been beaten to it. I personally have not yet found anything to be obviously suspect as of yet, although I am currently 50 /50 on Shaymin. I can understand the concerns with Abomasnow as I must admit that Hail teams can be annoying. However I haven't yet found them to be deadly enough to call them broken (although I am just about the only person who uses CroKou, which absolutely shits all over most Hail teams. It's amazing how often people are prepared to let their Nidoqueen die just to get Toxic Spikes up. If they don't carry a bulky Ground? Even easier).

The problem I have with Shaymin is that it is not only difficult to counter but also difficult to kill with Natural Rest, and can do both roles simultaneously. I find it ironic that Shaymin-S would probably have a harder time competing in this metagame, what with Crobat and Registeel very common as well as Hail reducing its durability even more. I'm still very much undecided on Shaymin, but I guess after only a week we should remain undecided on just about everything.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings. I want to hear more people's views on their analysis of the first week.
 
It's not very effective at trapping in UU...The only common Steel types are Steelix (which is still less common) and Registeel. Registeel is nearly impossible to "beat" since it will usually just explode.

Magneton is actually better as a Sweeper in this new environment because of its great resistances and STAB, plus a shitload of SpAttack.

Trapping steels is more a secondary thing on its agenda.
 
The only two pokes I see worthy of being suspect are Raikou and Shaymin.

Most of my points on Shaymin have already been mentioned, but the amazing synergy of rest and natural cure, and how easily it fits into an offensive set are worth reiterating. There is also the sledom-seen SD set with seed bomb and zen headbutt that can end the game with one opportunous turn.

Raikou is just beastly. He hits faster then most, and harder then most. He has plenty of powerful options that will be seen in the coming months as counters for SubCM proliferate. Every possible counter relies on Raikou running a certain ev spread or lacking that crucial item or hidden power.

There are other commonly seen pokes like Roserade, Milotic, and Mismagius that are very powerful, but not so much so that they should be banned.
 
I agree with Kalec. I thiink everyone can agree that Raikou+Shaymin will probably be the first to get the boot. I also think Milotic will follow, as Shaymin+Raikou were its biggest threats/counters, and now it can run free with its immense bulk and recover
 
I'd be interesting in hearing how different people are dealing with CM/Rest/Sleeptalk/Dark Pulse Spiritomb. I keep having problems with it, but I can't determine whether the problem is me, or 'Tomb. It's incredibly hard to kill off, especially for an opposing stall team.
 
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